IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:10:33] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-142-140.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:10:34] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
  3. [00:11:28] <amanuel> What a day.
  4. [00:11:46] <amanuel> Otavo is now open. Seatec Astronomy.
  5. [00:12:11] <amanuel> no more secrets.
  6. [00:18:41] * Gr1m (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ()
  7. [00:20:24] <tantek> too many secrets
  8. [00:22:29] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  12. [00:53:20] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  13. [01:20:03] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  14. [01:20:03] <jibot> edsu is Ed Summers from the Library of Congress <http://www.inkdroid.org>
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  17. [01:40:38] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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  21. [01:44:07] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  25. [02:11:29] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  31. [02:20:34] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  32. [02:20:51] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  33. [02:28:55] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.31-221.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
  34. [02:34:17] <ajturner> briansuda - what is the url for your MF cheatsheet?
  35. [02:34:31] <ajturner> the link you put out on the MF mailing list had a page with a link that didn't work
  36. [02:53:10] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC893BB6.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  37. [02:53:25] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
  38. [02:53:41] <mfbot> [[semantic-xhtml]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=semantic-xhtml&diff=0&oldid=7736 * Tantek * (+702) added presentations section
  39. [02:57:34] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-142-140.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  40. [03:01:27] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-142-140.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
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  42. [03:20:52] <csarven> there is a semantic elements section on that wiki page. aren't all elements essentially have a semantic equivalency wrt the object?
  43. [03:24:21] <csarven> tantek you've updated last
  44. [03:24:50] <tantek> no some elements are purely presentational
  45. [03:24:59] <tantek> and some have nearly no semantic, e.g. div/span
  46. [03:25:02] <csarven> right
  47. [03:25:05] <tantek> ah, that reminds me...
  48. [03:25:21] <csarven> i was about to add bunch, but then realized most are semantic
  49. [03:27:07] <tantek> go ahead and add some, if any are not semantic then i'm sure we can discuss ;)
  50. [03:28:46] * tantek adding a presentation link currently
  51. [03:30:08] <mfbot> [[semantic-xhtml]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=semantic-xhtml&diff=0&oldid=7737 * Tantek * (+229) added Semantic Spectrum reference
  52. [03:35:38] * amette__ (n=amette@pD9E6AD3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  53. [03:36:59] * amette__ (n=amette@pD9E6AC75.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  54. [03:39:19] <mfbot> [[semantic-xhtml]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=semantic-xhtml&diff=0&oldid=7738 * Csarven * (+99) Semantic Elements -
  55. [03:40:15] <csarven> hmm missed code, li..
  56. [03:41:41] <csarven> not sure about strong though.. perhaps that should come out
  57. [03:42:28] <csarven> how can you emphasize something even more strongly? gray area
  58. [03:47:53] <csarven> tantek how would you consider sub, sup. they are essentially for presentational locally, however globally within context they have meaning
  59. [03:54:59] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC87B116.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  60. [03:54:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  61. [03:54:59] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  64. [04:17:09] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
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  67. [04:38:13] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
  68. [04:55:43] * deanero_ (n=dean@64.122.195.243) has joined #microformats
  69. [04:55:58] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  70. [04:55:58] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
  71. [04:56:09] * deanero_ is now known as deanero
  72. [04:56:36] <Atamido> Yes I am.
  73. [04:59:35] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  74. [05:00:02] <deanero> ?def deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  75. [05:00:03] <jibot> deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  76. [05:03:22] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=7739 * DeanEro * (+41) People on irc - added deanero (-0800/-0700)
  77. [05:12:10] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  78. [05:15:20] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  79. [05:15:20] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  94. [06:01:15] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  101. [07:03:47] * _Zeeshan_M is now known as Zeeshan_M
  102. [07:10:02] * deanero (n=dean@64.122.195.243) has joined #microformats
  103. [07:10:02] <jibot> deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  104. [07:13:33] * deanero (n=dean@64.122.195.243) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  105. [07:16:46] * deanero (n=dean@64.122.195.243) has joined #microformats
  106. [07:30:12] <mfbot> [[hresume-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-fr&diff=0&oldid=7740 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1056) [fr:sync with hResume]
  107. [07:33:08] <mfbot> [[hresume-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-fr&diff=0&oldid=7741 * ChristopheDucamp * (+90) Références -
  108. [07:46:20] * izo_ (n=izo@allhost.fupl.asso.fr) has joined #microformats
  109. [07:49:48] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  110. [07:49:49] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  111. [07:50:20] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  112. [07:57:50] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  113. [07:57:50] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  114. [08:05:15] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has left #microformats
  115. [08:05:20] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  116. [08:05:21] <McNulty> morning
  117. [08:09:07] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  118. [08:09:07] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  119. [08:13:16] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has joined #microformats
  120. [08:13:21] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
  121. [08:18:33] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  122. [08:18:34] <jibot> mn_francis is a web developer for Yahoo! Europe; http://cackhanded.net/ is his personal site
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  130. [09:08:42] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) has joined #microformats
  131. [09:08:43] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
  132. [09:25:58] <McNulty> Is there a public (free) hCard->vCard XSL?
  133. [09:26:52] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  134. [09:26:57] <McNulty> ah, briansuda has one
  135. [09:27:53] <McNulty> awesome
  136. [09:28:59] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
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  141. [09:48:40] * drewinthe_ is now known as drewinthehead
  142. [09:48:56] <drewinthehead> mornin'
  143. [09:50:08] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  144. [09:51:53] <Whiskey_M> morning drew :)
  145. [09:52:22] <mn_francis> drew, drew, he's our man ...
  146. [09:52:27] <Whiskey_M> lol
  147. [09:53:25] <drewinthehead> uh oh
  148. [09:53:46] <drewinthehead> who's man am i, and why? :)
  149. [09:54:04] <drewinthehead> whose, rather.
  150. [09:54:10] <mn_francis> er
  151. [09:54:11] <mn_francis> um
  152. [09:54:14] <mn_francis> ours?
  153. [09:54:19] <mn_francis> because you're just sooooo awesome
  154. [09:54:28] <drewinthehead> aww .. ok.
  155. [09:55:00] <mn_francis> sorry, it's "silly morning norm" right now
  156. [09:58:33] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  157. [09:58:34] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  158. [10:00:12] * n41 (n=Miranda@svs15.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) has joined #microformats
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  161. [10:09:44] <mfbot> [[semantic-xhtml-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/semantic-xhtml-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+2091)
  162. [10:11:02] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) has joined #microformats
  163. [10:11:24] <mfbot> [[semantic-class-names-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/semantic-class-names-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+625)
  164. [10:14:15] <mfbot> [[hlisting-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+169)
  165. [10:14:50] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  166. [10:15:44] * deanero (n=dean@64.122.195.243) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  167. [10:16:37] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  168. [10:16:38] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  169. [10:19:27] <mfbot> [[hatom-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-fr&diff=0&oldid=7742 * ChristopheDucamp * (+209) Implémentations -
  170. [10:20:48] <mfbot> [[hatom-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-fr&diff=0&oldid=7743 * ChristopheDucamp * (-208) Implémentations -
  171. [10:23:51] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
  172. [10:23:52] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  173. [10:27:40] <drewinthehead> morning Phae
  174. [10:28:16] <Phae> morning
  175. [10:49:01] <McNulty> are there any examples in the wild of having multi-part ORG values?
  176. [10:49:31] <McNulty> or is it just a 2-part thing? I'm not too clear
  177. [11:04:41] * chucker_ (n=chucker@p5489DE80.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  178. [11:07:03] <drewinthehead> multipart in what way, McNult?
  179. [11:08:31] * cori[s] (n=cori@pdpc/supporter/active/CoriS) Quit (" Death before decaf!")
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  184. [11:45:12] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable153.95-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  185. [11:45:12] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  186. [11:49:25] <McNulty> drewinthehead - in vCard you can have something like ORG:ABC\, Inc.;North American Division;Marketing
  187. [11:49:35] <McNulty> semicolon-separated
  188. [11:49:49] <drewinthehead> hmm
  189. [11:49:56] <McNulty> hCard spec says:
  190. [11:50:06] <McNulty> The "ORG" property has two subproperties, organization-name and organization-unit. Very often authors only publish the organization-name. Thus if an "ORG" property has no "organization-name" inside it, then its entire contents MUST be treated as the "organization-name".
  191. [11:50:33] <McNulty> which seems to imply only two parts, rather than the 3+ implied by the vCard example?
  192. [11:50:47] <McNulty> Or can there be many organisation-units...
  193. [11:53:03] <McNulty> Ah I've answered my own question, vCard allows one organisation-name followed by multiple organisation-units
  194. [11:57:03] <drewinthehead> right
  195. [11:57:28] <McNulty> I guess the order would just be the order they appear in the HTML
  196. [11:59:48] <drewinthehead> yes
  197. [12:01:32] <Whiskey_M> I've been thinking about something along the same lines would: <span class="organisation organisation-name organisation-unit organisation-unit>o,ou,ou</span> be valid?
  198. [12:01:46] <Whiskey_M> obviously putting in my missing " ;)
  199. [12:02:07] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  200. [12:02:08] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  201. [12:02:31] <drewinthehead> Whiskey_M: no
  202. [12:03:03] <drewinthehead> there's nothing in the spec about commas, so parsers wouldn't know what you meant by that
  203. [12:03:56] <Whiskey_M> but using multiple instances of the same class to indicate mutliple instances of data is valid? I'm thinking like name suffixes, middle names etc.
  204. [12:04:01] <drewinthehead> you'd end up with name and unit set to the same thing
  205. [12:04:50] <drewinthehead> multiple instances on different elements
  206. [12:05:20] <drewinthehead> why would you need multiple instances of the same property and value?
  207. [12:05:51] <McNulty> you mean like <span class="organisation-unit organisation-unit">foo</span>
  208. [12:05:59] <McNulty> and you'd get two of them in the translated version?
  209. [12:06:20] <McNulty> I don't know what the semantics of specifying a class twice are, I think an element is either in a class or not
  210. [12:08:12] <mfbot> [[hatom-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-fr&diff=0&oldid=7744 * ChristopheDucamp * (+209) 0.1 implémentations hAtom -
  211. [12:10:06] <McNulty> Whiskey_M - from the HTML spec:
  212. [12:10:19] <McNulty> @class - "This attribute assigns a class name or set of class names to an element."
  213. [12:10:37] <McNulty> so <span class="foo foo"> just tells you twice that the span is in the class foo
  214. [12:10:50] <McNulty> It shouldn't be different to <span class="foo"> IMO
  215. [12:12:12] <Whiskey_M> I agree - I am just sure I saw some example somewhere that wasn't splitting each of the sub-elements to their own span and was trying to think how you'd replicate that programmatically
  216. [12:15:56] <McNulty> Can you remember where?
  217. [12:17:56] <Whiskey_M> no, I've been hunting around the wiki trying to find it
  218. [12:22:33] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  219. [12:22:36] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
  220. [12:40:38] * izo__ (n=izo@allhost.fupl.asso.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  222. [12:48:20] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  223. [12:48:21] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  224. [12:55:33] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()
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  229. [13:17:29] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  230. [13:17:29] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  231. [13:18:21] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489F5BE.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  232. [13:20:37] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has left #microformats
  233. [13:20:43] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) has joined #microformats
  234. [13:22:14] * cori[s] (n=cori@pdpc/supporter/active/CoriS) has joined #microformats
  235. [13:33:16] <amanuel> amette__: we launched :)
  236. [13:33:57] <amanuel> well public beta
  237. [13:35:11] * ravenn (n=ravenn@203-158-39-231.dyn.iinet.net.au) has left #microformats
  238. [13:35:25] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  239. [13:35:34] <amette__> amanuel : kewl :)
  240. [13:35:56] * amanuel saw your post on your blog btw :)
  241. [13:36:13] <McNulty> amanuel - launched what?
  242. [13:36:20] <amanuel> Otavo
  243. [13:36:58] * McNulty investigates
  244. [13:37:03] <amanuel> lol
  245. [13:37:16] <Whiskey_M> hURL?
  246. [13:37:24] <McNulty> hhhhm
  247. [13:37:28] <amanuel> http://otavo.com
  248. [13:37:41] * chucker_ (n=chucker@p5489DE80.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  249. [13:37:44] <amette__> <a href="http://otavo.com" class="hurl">otavo</a>
  250. [13:37:54] <amanuel> yup xfolk
  251. [13:38:13] <amanuel> ?
  252. [13:38:28] <amette__> no, hurl for Whiskey_M ;)
  253. [13:39:00] <amanuel> well it has microformats from day 1
  254. [13:39:24] <amanuel> the quests links list is xFolk'd
  255. [13:40:02] <McNulty> There was a debate a couple of days ago regarding the use of DL for forms, did we come to any conclusions?
  256. [13:40:05] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
  257. [13:41:57] * trovster has just looked at xfolk.
  258. [13:42:35] <trovster> Quite annoying in the inconsistency in the class names, extended-address on hCards, entry-content on hAtom, and xfolkentry on xFolk...
  259. [13:44:15] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  260. [13:44:31] <McNulty> gah
  261. [13:44:54] <trovster> McNulty: I doubt anything was concluded with the use of DL for forms. I guess most of the people in here will only use DL for the strictest of def+desc pairing.
  262. [13:45:56] <McNulty> I was thinking about it... I think that a form should be marked up in the same way as you'd mark up a non-editable version of the same data, what do you think??
  263. [13:46:14] <Whiskey_M> You mean like a FAQ?
  264. [13:46:26] <trovster> That's what I do ;)
  265. [13:46:34] <McNulty> I mean say a user details form
  266. [13:46:54] <McNulty> you should use a DL iff you'd use a DL for the same info if it wasn't a form
  267. [13:52:54] * mn_francis_ (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  268. [13:52:55] * mn_francis (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  269. [13:53:30] <McNulty> trovster - do you have an example of a styled form with a DL?
  270. [13:53:34] <McNulty> I'm not sure how to do a few things
  271. [13:53:50] <trovster> http://www.approveddesign.co.uk/about/proposal/
  272. [13:56:38] <McNulty> aha, one of the things I wasn't clear about was the fieldset but I see you've split it into separate DLs
  273. [13:56:40] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) Quit ("i <3 pork (http://dev.ojnk.net)")
  274. [13:58:12] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489F5BE.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  275. [13:59:20] <trovster> Separate fieldset, like a separate div(ision), so a new DL
  276. [13:59:51] * McNulty (n=McNulty@nat-195.157.130.53.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  277. [14:00:00] * McNulty loses patience with his connection
  278. [14:02:33] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  279. [14:02:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  280. [14:02:34] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  281. [14:04:56] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489C2E6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  282. [14:07:39] <McNulty> what's a decent markup for 'example' notes by the side of forms elements?
  283. [14:12:27] <drewinthehead> i don't think there's anything that conveys the semantics of that in html .. so how about a class name of 'example' ?
  284. [14:14:23] <chucker> I guess <samp> would be close
  285. [14:15:25] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-239-243-066.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  286. [14:15:25] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  287. [14:15:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
  288. [14:17:53] <Whiskey_M> in xmdp is there any flag to show the nesting, i.e. org (organisation-name, organisation-unit)
  289. [14:18:42] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  290. [14:23:21] <briansuda> Whiskey_M, at the moment XMDP is flat, there is no way to define hierarchy
  291. [14:24:29] <McNulty> Whiskey_M - XMDP is sort of a hashtable, it's term->definition
  292. [14:25:52] <Whiskey_M> thought so - didn't want to be missing something though
  293. [14:26:56] <briansuda> at one point i was working on a universal microformats validator which would first fetch the XMDP then attempt to compare against that, therefore you would not have to have prior knowledge of any new microformat.
  294. [14:27:30] <briansuda> but as you can probably tell, without nesting all you can do is say something exists, but not that it is valid
  295. [14:27:55] <briansuda> there has been some rumblings in the past about getting an XMDP to include another XMPD
  296. [14:28:21] <briansuda> the idea being that you COULD have <head profile=" 30 different Microformat URLs here">
  297. [14:28:41] <briansuda> to minimise that you could reference ONE XMDP that included all the others
  298. [14:28:53] <briansuda> there hasn't been much movement on that (not that i know)
  299. [14:29:24] <briansuda> as well as possibly including or using existing HTML constructs to start to make some atomic types
  300. [14:29:54] <briansuda> these would be used for things like XFN's (reciprocal, inverse, exclusive)
  301. [14:30:07] <Whiskey_M> the aim sounds remarkably similar to probably the core reason I've been playing with the XSD (with the hope that it could optionally sit behind microformats) - why did you drop it?
  302. [14:30:12] <briansuda> again, it was kicked around VERY early on, but not much as moved on that
  303. [14:30:28] <briansuda> xsd is more for type casting, right?
  304. [14:30:38] <briansuda> this is a datetime, this is an int
  305. [14:31:04] <briansuda> we didn't really drop it, we just got busy with other things
  306. [14:31:09] <Whiskey_M> it does do that - but you can also define structure and I've made up a namespace to allow attribute binding
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  310. [14:42:01] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  311. [14:42:02] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  312. [14:45:02] * dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  313. [14:45:05] <tantek> yes, Whiskey_M, it hasn't been dropped
  314. [14:45:14] <tantek> rel="import" for XMDP is still on my list
  315. [14:45:25] <tantek> for a importing whole XMDPs into an XMDP
  316. [14:45:28] <tantek> or just a property
  317. [14:45:31] <tantek> or just a value
  318. [14:49:32] <briansuda> Whiskey_M, i think you also said a bad word "namespace" :) with XMDP typing (for more complex stuff) we might be able to use XMDP to define those relationships
  319. [14:49:56] <briansuda> <a href="#met" rel="transitive">transitive</a>
  320. [14:49:57] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  321. [14:50:11] <briansuda> where #met refers to itself
  322. [14:50:39] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  323. [14:50:57] <briansuda> there might be ways to defined transitive, exclusive, etc with rel and XMDP already, no namespace or extra stuff required.
  324. [14:51:50] <briansuda> not much time has been spent on this, so these are just ideas... then you also have to ask, if this is needed or important? otherwise we'd just be "spinning our wheels" where our time could better be spent elsewhere
  325. [14:51:56] <Whiskey_M> sorry, had to wander for a second there - catching up
  326. [14:52:18] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit (Client Quit)
  327. [14:53:18] <Whiskey_M> caught up :)
  328. [14:54:11] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  329. [14:54:11] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  330. [14:55:34] <Whiskey_M> glad it's not been dropped - sounds interesting - in regards to namespaces, I understand in relation to microformats and XMDP where this is a bad thing. It really shouldn't be made as complicated as that and you do end up loosing the controlled grammer (you end up with a pretty much roll your own)
  331. [14:56:48] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-239-243-066.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  332. [14:57:06] * dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  333. [14:57:24] <tantek> actually, the transitive/symmetric stuff is definitely very low priority
  334. [14:57:33] <tantek> it's not clear how it would be of much help for what applications
  335. [14:58:00] <tantek> the "import" stuff is of medium priority because I know I'm going to need to do it *very* soon to avoid duplicating property definitions in hCalendar XMDP and hReview XMDP from hCard XMDP
  336. [14:58:23] * mn_francis_ (n=mn_franc@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) Quit ()
  337. [14:58:36] <tantek> basically we prioritize according to what we actually need in XMDP to support the formats as simply/easily as possible
  338. [14:58:53] <tantek> we don't specifically have the goal of trying to make all aspects of the format definition be machine readable
  339. [14:59:09] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  340. [14:59:20] <tantek> because that's an impossible goal in practice (even DTD and XSD are not "rich enough" to make all aspects of XHTML machine defined)
  341. [14:59:49] <Whiskey_M> silly question that will probably get me the boot - aren't you re-inventing the wheel by extending XMDP since other technologies have that built in?
  342. [15:00:06] <Whiskey_M> and quickly, I'm not suggesting gettnig rid of XMDP
  343. [15:00:28] <Whiskey_M> other technologies are too damned complicated for standard coders to follow, thus the MF take-up
  344. [15:01:19] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  345. [15:01:53] <briansuda> part of that has to do with the HTML 4 spec. They defined how and what the profile attribute should point too.
  346. [15:02:09] <briansuda> from that XMDP arose - this was pre-microformats
  347. [15:02:12] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  348. [15:02:15] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
  349. [15:02:29] <Whiskey_M> yup
  350. [15:03:02] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  351. [15:03:11] <Whiskey_M> bbiab
  352. [15:04:07] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  353. [15:05:47] * tantek notes 60+ folks in the channel for probably the first time.
  354. [15:08:45] <Whiskey_M> lots of peeps, very quiet though ;)
  355. [15:14:03] <tantek> Whiskey_M, you're precisely right about not wanting to reinvent the wheel
  356. [15:14:15] <tantek> hence why I've been very resistant to much (if anything) to XMDP
  357. [15:14:34] <tantek> it needs to be kept as minimal as possible, and only have things added when it helps authors
  358. [15:15:05] <tantek> "import" will help authors in that it will enable referencing only a single XMDP in the <head profile=""> which can then import others (just like stylesheets can)
  359. [15:15:18] <tantek> instead of having to put a whole slew of URLs into the top of every document
  360. [15:15:22] <Whiskey_M> so leave XMDP alone more or less, bind XSD or other standard in a computer only link which does support imports etc.
  361. [15:15:27] <tantek> like some other XML standards require
  362. [15:15:37] <tantek> <cough>namespaces</cough>
  363. [15:16:01] <tantek> using XSD just for imports is like swatting a fly with a hammer
  364. [15:16:25] <tantek> and we're trying hard here to stick with semantic XHTML
  365. [15:16:33] <tantek> not wanting to introduce a whole nother format
  366. [15:16:55] <tantek> the nice thing about XMDP is that it is simple enough that modern web designers can read an understand it
  367. [15:17:09] <tantek> and they'll understand rel="import" as well, as they understand @import in CSS
  368. [15:17:20] <tantek> whereas reading/understanding XSD? forget it.
  369. [15:17:28] <tantek> that's like a .00001% kind of thing
  370. [15:17:30] <Whiskey_M> yup, and that has to remain the same - the reason why there isn't bigger uptake of other semantic standards is they are too damned hard
  371. [15:17:44] <tantek> mostly because they are:
  372. [15:17:57] <tantek> 1. too damned bloated with crap that people don't need most of the time
  373. [15:18:17] <tantek> 2. too damned "new" (new syntaxes, new grammars, new names of properties/values etc.)
  374. [15:18:50] <tantek> so we took those anti-patterns from other semantic standards, inverted them, and put them down as principles
  375. [15:19:14] <tantek> http://microformats.org/about
  376. [15:19:19] <tantek> start as simple as possible
  377. [15:19:24] <tantek> reuse
  378. [15:20:22] <Whiskey_M> yup, read it and agree
  379. [15:21:42] <Whiskey_M> but it would be useful to have a cross over into those bloated new syntaxes -- especially if mf adoption has that benefit as standard
  380. [15:21:54] <Whiskey_M> or near enough
  381. [15:22:28] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  382. [15:22:44] <tantek> and we're back in the 50s
  383. [15:22:44] * bear42 (n=bear@c-71-230-109-9.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  384. [15:23:20] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  385. [15:23:36] * bear42 (n=bear@c-71-230-109-9.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  386. [15:25:12] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  387. [15:26:56] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()
  388. [15:29:45] <Whiskey_M> I have a worried feeling that I'm just not getting it and being very stupid
  389. [15:29:56] * drewinthehead popped into #php yesterday to find nearly 400 people ... and promptly left again
  390. [15:33:49] <McNulty> scared off?
  391. [15:33:57] * briansud1 (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  392. [15:37:30] <tantek> yes, it is amazing how many channels have 100+ people
  393. [15:39:42] <trovster> #css on efnet = 170 :)
  394. [15:40:16] <Whiskey_M> So being stupid here's the silly stuff --- stick an XSD (with an extention for matching hints in HTML), behind the XMDP - let the XSD manage imports etc. the technicalities of those are really for computers, let the xmdp just describe so people can follow. day to day people adopting mf need not even know they are there
  395. [15:40:28] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  396. [15:40:37] <tantek> like I said, swatting a fly with a hammer
  397. [15:40:50] <tantek> I really don't want to introduce any dependency on XSD
  398. [15:40:59] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #Microformats
  399. [15:41:00] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  400. [15:41:17] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has left #Microformats
  401. [15:41:21] <Whiskey_M> there are only 8 specifications of fly at present - but I can see you're not sold in the slightest :)
  402. [15:41:23] <tantek> any dependency on a significantly more complex technology makes the system that much more fragile, since mistakes are easier with complex technologies
  403. [15:42:30] <tantek> especially when 1/1000th the people (or perhaps in the case of XSD 1/10000000th the people) understand the more complex technology
  404. [15:44:05] <Whiskey_M> I can stop going on about this if I'm being a pain, just let me know. However why would they have to understand, just leave it as XMDP for standard users along with the wiki guides on formatting.
  405. [15:45:17] <Whiskey_M> could even make the xsd optional
  406. [15:46:41] <Whiskey_M> tea and cig, bbiab
  407. [15:47:11] <McNulty> tantek - what's your opinion on DLs for forms?
  408. [15:47:33] <McNulty> I was talking about it the other day and sparked a big debate, but never came to a real conclusion
  409. [15:48:09] <dglazkov> I think playing with figuring out how to map mfs to XSDs is a good individual exercise. It helps gaining understanding why using XSD in mfs is a bad idea. (speaking from personal experience)
  410. [15:48:20] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
  411. [15:48:21] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  412. [15:49:11] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  413. [15:49:11] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  414. [15:51:13] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) has joined #microformats
  415. [15:53:14] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489C2E6.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
  416. [15:54:27] * izo_ (n=izo@efas.allhost.fupl.asso.fr) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  417. [15:56:39] <Whiskey_M> dg: I am playing http://www.redantdesign.com/hcard/take2.asp I'm just missing the bad idea part at the moment. I'm not saying it's not a bad idea since I need to understand mfs a lot more, I just can't see why it's a bad idea yet
  418. [15:59:51] * briansud1 (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  419. [16:00:35] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  420. [16:03:13] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  421. [16:03:14] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  422. [16:03:30] <drewinthehead> i just updated the hAtom2Atom on tools.microformatic.com - if anyone notices anything wonky, shout.
  423. [16:06:21] <drewinthehead> (no new features, just hardening defences)
  424. [16:08:59] <dglazkov> Whiskey_M, what have you accomplished with this mapping? Where's the beef?
  425. [16:09:18] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  426. [16:09:44] <Whiskey_M> which mapping? The whole lot?
  427. [16:10:12] <dglazkov> the mapping of hCard to XSD
  428. [16:10:56] <Whiskey_M> hopefully working towards making microformats machine readable
  429. [16:11:15] <dglazkov> how are you going to address hCard optimizations?
  430. [16:11:24] <dglazkov> fn optimization, for instance
  431. [16:11:30] <Whiskey_M> sorry, easily machine readable - I know tails and whatnot allow you to do that already
  432. [16:11:52] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489C2E6.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  433. [16:12:24] * chucker (n=chucker@p5489C2E6.dip.t-dialin.net) has left #microformats
  434. [16:12:29] <dglazkov> my biggest a-ha moment was realizing that writing format-specific parser is a whole lot easier than writing a generic parser
  435. [16:12:33] <Whiskey_M> sorry reading fn optimization
  436. [16:12:55] <dglazkov> and that writing generic parser is mostly masturbation, pardon the phraseology
  437. [16:13:21] <dglazkov> because since you already know specific formats, why bother coming up with a generic parser?
  438. [16:13:31] <dglazkov> all you need is a generic XHTML parser
  439. [16:13:54] <dglazkov> and maybe a good class/element navigator with it
  440. [16:14:09] <Whiskey_M> it would mean that you'd have to work out the rulesets for each format though?
  441. [16:14:36] <dglazkov> rulesets?
  442. [16:14:54] <Whiskey_M> where elements are placed, nesting etc.
  443. [16:15:30] <dglazkov> yep -- those will need to be format-specific, and they are already defined in the format spec
  444. [16:16:27] <dglazkov> I think I know what you are trying to do -- I thought about this myself
  445. [16:16:30] <Whiskey_M> the spec being written in the wiki pages?
  446. [16:17:38] <dglazkov> declarative computing. Kind of like the ol' lexer and yacc -- give them the language spec and they will spit out something formalized back
  447. [16:18:41] <dglazkov> Whiskey_M: yes
  448. [16:19:54] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()
  449. [16:19:56] <Whiskey_M> I guess I'm just approaching it from the wrong angle, machine first
  450. [16:21:06] <dglazkov> it's not your fault :) it's Software Engineering's fault :)
  451. [16:22:53] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  452. [16:25:24] <Whiskey_M> I think this will be one that I just don't get :) I can't see the point of non-machine readable semantics, and I can only see a large work overhead in converting each semantic framework via XHTML into other formats using XSL. However that's for me to pick up and find out, more learning needed on my part I feel :)
  453. [16:26:27] <tantek> Whiskey_M because any useful language (esp. on the Web) inevitably has non-machine readable semantics
  454. [16:26:32] <tantek> e.g HTML, XHTML etc.
  455. [16:26:40] <tantek> have plenty described in the prose of the spec
  456. [16:26:50] <tantek> that CANNOT be represented in DTD or XSD
  457. [16:27:00] <tantek> so since you will never be 100% machine readable, just give up sooner
  458. [16:27:25] <tantek> and the other problem is...
  459. [16:27:36] <tantek> that very often efforts to make a language machine readable/parsable
  460. [16:27:46] <tantek> tend to compromise human usability and use cases in the process
  461. [16:27:49] <tantek> which some are ok with
  462. [16:27:54] <tantek> but we (microformats) are not
  463. [16:28:09] <tantek> thus the reason that "machines first" is undesirable
  464. [16:28:25] <tantek> it leads to less optimal solutions for human (content) use
  465. [16:28:52] <Whiskey_M> as I said, I need to read and learn more
  466. [16:29:02] <dglazkov> and give some credit to the machines. Armed with some specific knowledge, they can read this stuff just as well :)
  467. [16:29:03] <tantek> it is not just reading about microformats
  468. [16:29:13] <tantek> it is experience with the development and evolution of HTML itself
  469. [16:29:37] <tantek> there is a lot of background here that has led to where we are with microformats principles
  470. [16:32:42] <Whiskey_M> even more reading :)
  471. [16:36:30] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) has joined #microformats
  472. [16:36:31] <jibot> deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  473. [16:37:41] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  474. [16:46:03] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  475. [16:46:46] <Whiskey_M> time for the pub, laters all
  476. [16:46:48] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has joined #microformats
  477. [16:46:49] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  478. [16:46:49] * Whiskey_M (n=Richard@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) Quit ()
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  480. [16:59:22] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
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  482. [17:02:51] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
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  484. [17:03:41] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  485. [17:03:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  487. [17:06:11] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  488. [17:06:12] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  489. [17:06:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  490. [17:07:28] <cgriego> theoretically, <div class="miroformats-magic-class-name-here"><img alt="Value Here" /></div> should work, right?
  491. [17:09:37] <bewest> cgriego: huh?
  492. [17:09:59] <tantek> cgriego no
  493. [17:10:22] <tantek> or at least, not if you wanted the value to be recognized
  494. [17:10:27] <tantek> for that property
  495. [17:10:33] <cgriego> why not?
  496. [17:11:02] <bewest> your value is hidden there
  497. [17:11:43] <bewest> hidden values are a bit like non-existant values
  498. [17:12:12] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=7745 * ChristopheDucamp * (+136)
  499. [17:12:19] <cgriego> why do you say it's hidden? Google and a screen-reader would not call it hidden.
  500. [17:12:29] <bewest> but a person can't read it
  501. [17:12:52] <tantek> because the alt attribute on img only applies to properties directly on img
  502. [17:12:55] <bewest> unless they view source, I suppose
  503. [17:13:11] <cgriego> would <div class="miroformats-magic-class-name-here"><img title="Value Here" /></div> be parsed then?
  504. [17:13:26] <tantek> e.g. <img class="summary" alt="BarCampEarth" src="barcampearthlogo.png" />
  505. [17:16:33] <pnhChris> i guess i'm confused about the explanation
  506. [17:17:13] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=7746 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1)
  507. [17:17:27] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) Quit ()
  508. [17:17:43] <pnhChris> aren't there a few logo / photo cases where properties are regularly have values as the alt contents?
  509. [17:17:58] <pnhChris> bewest?
  510. [17:17:59] <bewest> cgriego: are you talking about logos and photos?
  511. [17:18:10] <bewest> pnhChris: but he left out a src attribute
  512. [17:18:17] <bewest> which made me think he was just trying to encode hidden information
  513. [17:18:47] <cgriego> bewest: I'm speaking generally, not just image types
  514. [17:19:04] <bewest> might as well do <span class="fn" style="display: hidden;">Ben West</span>
  515. [17:19:12] <bewest> if you /really/ want to hide something
  516. [17:19:19] <pnhChris> oh.. i just read it as comparing <div class="property">value</div> vis <div class="properly"><img src="" .... alt="value" />
  517. [17:19:35] <bewest> alt="hidden values"
  518. [17:19:58] <pnhChris> i don't think style should apply at all to MF parsing.. but taht's another totally different conversation
  519. [17:20:00] <bewest> cgriego: generally it's <div class="property">value</div>
  520. [17:20:11] <bewest> pnhChris: it doesn't, but it still hides it from the user
  521. [17:20:17] <bewest> pnhChris: without affecting parsing
  522. [17:20:22] <bewest> which is why I gave it as an example
  523. [17:20:22] * pnhChris nods
  524. [17:20:29] <pnhChris> but the idea comes up from time to time
  525. [17:20:32] <pnhChris> but OT here
  526. [17:20:37] <pnhChris> for the moment
  527. [17:21:16] <cgriego> I'm just concerned that logically it's a part of an element's value
  528. [17:21:30] <bewest> what is "it"?
  529. [17:22:09] <bewest> <div class="property-name"> <img alt="some value"></div> doesn't apply the "value" to the property
  530. [17:22:24] <bewest> <div class="property-name"> value </div> does
  531. [17:24:02] <pnhChris> however??? :: <div class="property-name"> <img class="value" alt="some value"></div>
  532. [17:24:29] <pnhChris> that's universal, correct?
  533. [17:24:45] <pnhChris> haven't jumped through all the docs to double check
  534. [17:24:59] * vant__ (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  535. [17:25:14] <pnhChris> (the usage of explicit class="value" to define the value of a parent)
  536. [17:25:32] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) Quit ()
  537. [17:26:13] <bewest> oh I forget I thought there was another step
  538. [17:26:48] <bewest> eg <div class="property-name type_of_property"> <img class="value" alt="some value"></div>
  539. [17:26:58] <bewest> I think class="value" is supposed to accompany some "type"
  540. [17:27:30] <bewest> like with phone numbers there are types: fax, telephone...
  541. [17:27:44] <pnhChris> yeah
  542. [17:28:05] <pnhChris> but i thought that was just the reason it was added.. but the behavior was the same
  543. [17:29:00] * pnhChris doesn't think the wording here helps any
  544. [17:29:00] <pnhChris> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#Value_excerpting
  545. [17:29:13] <pnhChris> "This typically occurs " .. bleh :P
  546. [17:29:16] <bewest> ooOOoo someone left me a message on the wiki
  547. [17:29:25] <bewest> they used "I" but I don't know who "I" is
  548. [17:31:55] <bewest> pnhChris: I think the idiomatic way is to prefer leaving out type/value if it can be inferred
  549. [17:32:53] <pnhChris> sure
  550. [17:32:58] <pnhChris> i guess
  551. [17:33:00] <bewest> that is, only use value when the type needs to be specified
  552. [17:33:35] <pnhChris> hmmm
  553. [17:33:46] <pnhChris> well
  554. [17:33:52] <pnhChris> i'm not a spec or a parser writer
  555. [17:33:55] <pnhChris> ;)
  556. [17:34:02] <bewest> if the type doesn't need to be specified, there's no reason to use value
  557. [17:34:12] <bewest> that's my understanding
  558. [17:34:17] <pnhChris> though i had thought value came up in a conversation or two
  559. [17:34:27] <pnhChris> outside of type circumstances
  560. [17:34:45] <pnhChris> for reducing the cruft-y text from certiain constructs
  561. [17:34:54] <tantek> yes
  562. [17:35:01] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
  563. [17:35:01] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  564. [17:35:31] <bewest> ah
  565. [17:35:58] <bewest> like <div class="description"> lots of text lots of text <span class="value">THe real deal.</span> more text more text </div> ?
  566. [17:36:12] <pnhChris> [though i could also be persuaded either way about the alt value juts being assumed as the text content in the original case]
  567. [17:36:27] <tantek> bewest, correct
  568. [17:36:48] <tantek> chris, the alt attribute only applies to properties directly on that element
  569. [17:36:51] <tantek> that is intentional
  570. [17:36:52] <tantek> by design
  571. [17:36:55] <pnhChris> right
  572. [17:36:57] <pnhChris> but
  573. [17:37:18] <pnhChris> like i said .. i could go either way
  574. [17:37:24] <pnhChris> might depend on said value
  575. [17:37:28] <pnhChris> er
  576. [17:37:31] <pnhChris> property
  577. [17:37:46] <bewest> so then something like <div class="description"> <img src="picture" class="value" alt="having fun at the pool." /> </div>
  578. [17:37:52] <pnhChris> <div class="description"> lots of text lots of text <img alt="some more text" />THe real deal. more text more text </div>
  579. [17:38:12] <pnhChris> vs.
  580. [17:38:13] <tantek> bewest, yes, that should work
  581. [17:38:24] <pnhChris> <div class="entry-content"> lots of text lots of text <img alt="some more text" />THe real deal. more text more text </div>
  582. [17:38:26] <pnhChris> vs.
  583. [17:38:31] <pnhChris> <div class="fn"> lots of text lots of text <img alt="some more text" />THe real deal. more text more text </div>
  584. [17:38:55] <pnhChris> (ok.. the fn is a bit extreme.. and drew would have a fit best guessing that.. but you get the idea)
  585. [17:39:06] <bewest> hehehehehe
  586. [17:39:30] <pnhChris> in entry content the image element as a whole should just be grabbed
  587. [17:39:52] <pnhChris> but for fn? i can't convince myself it should be ignored
  588. [17:40:19] <pnhChris> nor can i convince myself that an image object is part of a formatted name
  589. [17:40:55] <pnhChris> fn: lots of text lots of text some more text THe real deal. more text more text
  590. [17:41:02] <pnhChris> seems to be the "obvious" answer to me
  591. [17:41:15] * bewest doesn't know why an image would be part of a name
  592. [17:41:19] <bewest> maybe if we met some alien species
  593. [17:41:27] <bewest> and their language was completely opaque to us
  594. [17:41:30] <Phae> heh
  595. [17:41:32] <pnhChris> well bewest
  596. [17:41:36] <Phae> that's really forward thinking
  597. [17:41:38] <pnhChris> going back to the orginal case
  598. [17:41:42] <bewest> sorry
  599. [17:41:42] <bewest> heh
  600. [17:41:59] <pnhChris> <h1 class="fn org">My Company</h1>
  601. [17:42:02] <bewest> I was just trying to see what would be necessary for the proposition to work
  602. [17:42:03] <pnhChris> in the top of a document
  603. [17:42:07] <pnhChris> vs.
  604. [17:42:22] <pnhChris> h1 class="fn org"><img src="" alt="My Company</h1>
  605. [17:42:32] <pnhChris> (you get the idea)
  606. [17:42:39] <pnhChris> (i hit enter too soon)
  607. [17:42:40] <bewest> hmmm
  608. [17:42:45] <Phae> the alt is important though, rather than the image?
  609. [17:42:56] <bewest> then it should be class="value" as well
  610. [17:43:12] <bewest> but even so
  611. [17:43:18] <pnhChris> sans class="value"
  612. [17:43:22] * bewest checks if <img> is allowed in <h1>
  613. [17:43:23] <pnhChris> how would that parse?
  614. [17:43:29] <pnhChris> an empty fn?
  615. [17:43:34] <pnhChris> sure is bewest
  616. [17:43:38] <bewest> fn: ""
  617. [17:43:44] <bewest> afaik...
  618. [17:44:15] <pnhChris> which is why i'm wondering if the alt should be picked up
  619. [17:44:27] <pnhChris> because its clearly not in other interpretations of that content
  620. [17:44:31] <bewest> pnhChris: why is class="value" left out?
  621. [17:44:31] <pnhChris> (e.g. screen readers)
  622. [17:44:40] <pnhChris> because that's the way it was coded
  623. [17:44:47] <pnhChris> i dunno
  624. [17:44:51] <pnhChris> just an example
  625. [17:45:03] <bewest> pnhChris: seems to me class="value" should be there then
  626. [17:46:10] <pnhChris> ok
  627. [17:46:11] <pnhChris> again
  628. [17:46:15] <bewest> <h1 class="fn org"> <span class="value">My Company</span> <img src="" alt=""/></h1>
  629. [17:46:18] <pnhChris> it could be there
  630. [17:46:19] <pnhChris> but
  631. [17:46:21] <bewest> how about that,, pnhChris?
  632. [17:46:32] <pnhChris> no
  633. [17:46:34] <bewest> then .fn .value { display: none; }
  634. [17:46:43] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  635. [17:46:47] <pnhChris> because no one is going to code like that
  636. [17:46:50] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  637. [17:47:16] <pnhChris> if they're going to tht extreme they'll just use imagereplacement techniques to begin with
  638. [17:47:19] <Phae> If I wanted to do an image like that, I may have image replaced the text.
  639. [17:47:23] <pnhChris> here's another one
  640. [17:47:24] <Phae> oh. there ya go
  641. [17:47:27] <bewest> hehe
  642. [17:47:51] <bewest> ok but I still don't understand why a well meaning microformatteer would code it your way and leave out class="value"
  643. [17:48:06] <bewest> especially when they can test against a parser/validator
  644. [17:48:13] <bewest> (presumably)
  645. [17:48:21] <pnhChris> <h1 class="fn org"><img src="logo.gif" alt="Microsoft"><br />Mac BU</h1>
  646. [17:48:33] <pnhChris> because where does "value" go in that case?
  647. [17:48:57] <bewest> what's the name? Microsoft Mac BU?
  648. [17:49:08] <pnhChris> that's how i'd read it, yes
  649. [17:49:21] <bewest> so logo.gif just says Microsoft?
  650. [17:49:53] <bewest> dunno... can I punt and say it's not idiomatic to web publishing?
  651. [17:50:57] <bewest> maybe that's walking off the end of 80% plank
  652. [17:53:03] <bewest> those are good examples I guess
  653. [17:53:48] <pnhChris> given i've done it a few times.. .maybe not with h1/fn .. but with site names and such.. with logo + sub text.. i'd still want that case to be explained to me.. and i'd still wonder why alt can be ignored like that in cases where we don't want the img markup as a value
  654. [17:54:21] <pnhChris> archive.org isn't behaving today :P
  655. [17:55:22] <bewest> I'm not sure image replacement technique would work, anyway
  656. [17:55:27] <pnhChris> sure
  657. [17:55:39] <pnhChris> why not?
  658. [17:55:51] <bewest> that makes a silly assumption: that parsers will only pick up microformats on initial page load
  659. [17:56:13] <pnhChris> <h1 class="fn org"><span class="replacemewithflash">Microsoft</span><br />Mac BU</h1>
  660. [17:56:49] <bewest> and then a parser who parsers your page after the flash content is there won't get what you intended
  661. [17:56:56] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  662. [17:57:05] <Phae> Parsers look at the source, I assumed.
  663. [17:57:07] <pnhChris> sucks to be the one trying to write that parser?
  664. [17:57:11] <Phae> Which is why they grab hiden value?
  665. [17:57:21] <Phae> hidden values*
  666. [17:57:23] <pnhChris> (sorry.. poor response.. but not much else to say on that one)
  667. [17:57:25] <Phae> man, I should sit up.
  668. [17:57:32] <bewest> Phae: yes, but the source of a page can change at any time
  669. [17:57:48] <bewest> I have a mapping application that dynamically puts hcards on the page
  670. [17:58:15] <Phae> oh
  671. [17:58:25] <bewest> there are permalinks to all views of data, but why should someone have to reload just to catch them before the map starts up
  672. [17:59:03] * tantek_ is not quite sure of the point of the line of questioning.
  673. [17:59:06] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  674. [17:59:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  675. [17:59:34] <tantek> on another topic, I'm starting to braindump my original thoughts on hReview parsing
  676. [17:59:38] <pnhChris> i'm still trying to understand why, for properties that look for text values alt is ignored
  677. [17:59:57] <pnhChris> which brought up image replacement techniques
  678. [18:00:06] <pnhChris> and "when" does something get parsed
  679. [18:00:06] <tantek> pnhChris, it is only ignored on *nested* alts
  680. [18:00:15] <tantek> and the reason is simplicity
  681. [18:00:26] <pnhChris> right
  682. [18:00:29] <pnhChris> but
  683. [18:00:47] <pnhChris> lots of ways to code around it
  684. [18:01:10] <pnhChris> just doesn't seem to /fit/ the way i've always looked at things
  685. [18:01:13] <pnhChris> that's all
  686. [18:01:19] <pnhChris> as for run time parsing
  687. [18:01:27] <pnhChris> that's a issue i wouldn't want to have to think about
  688. [18:01:59] <pnhChris> if you're using sfir to replace all blog headlines
  689. [18:02:14] <pnhChris> with flash
  690. [18:02:24] * n41 (n=Miranda@svs15.informatik.uni-hamburg.de) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
  691. [18:03:00] <pnhChris> or bewest enhances his app to replace peoples names
  692. [18:03:54] * pnhChris shrugs
  693. [18:04:04] <pnhChris> that was bewest's care, not mine
  694. [18:04:13] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  695. [18:05:06] <bewest> :-)
  696. [18:05:11] <bewest> I'm easily distracted
  697. [18:07:01] <pnhChris> it kinda concerns me.. just a little.. as the latest protoype for PNH does a little bit of SFIR and has a little bit of dom reordering to tweak layout on the fly
  698. [18:07:09] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  699. [18:07:14] <pnhChris> but not a big one
  700. [18:12:54] <pnhChris> especially becuase as is typical i'll usually get bored with it before getting around to actually building it :P
  701. [18:13:38] <bewest> maybe those details can be sorted out by parsers themselves
  702. [18:14:26] <bewest> <meta name="parser_foo_options" content="image_replacement" />
  703. [18:24:16] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=7747 * Tantek * (+608) reorganized related documents to be similar to hCard
  704. [18:28:12] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) has joined #microformats
  705. [18:28:12] <jibot> deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  706. [18:28:39] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  707. [18:28:40] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com
  708. [18:32:56] * yakk (n=nnnnnnnn@205.217.153.71) has joined #microformats
  709. [18:32:56] <jibot> yakk is a big fat liar and a hater
  710. [18:33:02] <yakk> its so true
  711. [18:34:01] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  712. [18:34:11] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  713. [18:34:32] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
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  718. [18:42:55] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit (No route to host)
  719. [18:45:22] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
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  721. [18:58:50] <cgriego> has there been any discussion about enabling hAtom parsing to be done in reverse when entries on a page are in chronological order instead of reverse chronological order?
  722. [19:00:38] <mfbot> [[hreview-parsing]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview-parsing * Tantek * (+2506) partial draft
  723. [19:04:54] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=7748 * Tantek * (-3) clarified that fn is required in the field summary
  724. [19:05:12] <cgriego> no? thoughts?
  725. [19:11:30] <tantek> has nothing to do with parsing
  726. [19:11:41] <tantek> the updated property tells you the date
  727. [19:11:47] <tantek> you can then reorder however you like
  728. [19:20:39] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) Quit ()
  729. [19:22:06] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=7749 * Tantek * (-122) some cleanup
  730. [19:25:49] <AdamCraven> kingryan as regards to the rating star picker. Removing the use of the 'a' elements will stop IE6 and below from using the limited pseudo elements it already has, as IE can only use the pseduo classes with the pseudo element. The alternative would be to make it a non-css based solution, and use some unobtrusive JavaScript.
  731. [19:26:07] <AdamCraven> *with the 'a' element
  732. [19:26:25] <kingryan> I wouldn't mind unobtrusive javascript
  733. [19:26:45] <AdamCraven> great - I'll get to work on that over the next week or so
  734. [19:28:46] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ()
  735. [19:32:53] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) has joined #microformats
  736. [19:32:54] <jibot> deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  737. [19:49:11] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) Quit ()
  738. [20:08:39] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit ("Want lisppaste4 in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.")
  739. [20:08:58] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
  740. [20:11:53] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  741. [20:12:09] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
  742. [20:14:11] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  743. [20:33:07] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) has joined #microformats
  744. [20:33:08] <jibot> deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  745. [20:34:55] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  746. [20:34:55] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan, the author of hKit and the curator of tools.microformatic.com
  747. [20:35:19] <deanero> def? deanero is at OSCON-- message me!
  748. [20:36:07] <deanero> ?forget deanero
  749. [20:36:08] <jibot> I need at least 3 words with an 'is' in the middle
  750. [20:36:30] <deanero> ?forget deanero is Dean Hudson, who works with musicians and record labels on all things internet
  751. [20:36:31] <jibot> I no longer know anything about deanero
  752. [20:36:50] <deanero> ?def deanero is at OSCON-- message me!
  753. [20:36:51] <jibot> deanero is at OSCON-- message me!
  754. [20:36:57] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  760. [20:57:13] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("bye")
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  766. [21:29:33] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) Quit ()
  767. [21:37:05] <mfbot> [[hreview]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=7750 * Tantek * (-39) removed unnecessary class=categories for simplification
  768. [21:43:47] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  769. [21:55:27] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  770. [21:56:58] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  771. [22:06:03] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ()
  772. [22:07:18] * alexandermuse (n=alexande@63.98.55.146) Quit ()
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  774. [22:13:30] <drewinthehead> question! rachel's writing a microformat for a UK consumer-level magazine .. what do you guys think the best beginner-level demos are?
  775. [22:13:46] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) has joined #microformats
  776. [22:13:47] <jibot> deanero is at OSCON-- message me!
  777. [22:13:55] <drewinthehead> she's got Tails already
  778. [22:14:19] <drewinthehead> and she's going to cover tantek's kitchen and pingorati
  779. [22:14:41] <bewest> drewinthehead: I think the MS Live stuff is a good demo
  780. [22:14:54] <drewinthehead> the live clipboard, bewest ?
  781. [22:15:03] <bewest> copy/pasting records from/to FF/IE is cool
  782. [22:15:03] <kingryan> and x2v is always nice
  783. [22:15:07] <bewest> I think people get that
  784. [22:15:44] <drewinthehead> of course .. x2v
  785. [22:15:53] <drewinthehead> woods/trees etc
  786. [22:16:19] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) Quit (Client Quit)
  787. [22:16:33] <bewest> is x2v good for consumer-level though?
  788. [22:17:05] <kingryan> yeah
  789. [22:17:07] <drewinthehead> in implementation form
  790. [22:17:12] <kingryan> because consumers have address books
  791. [22:17:15] <kingryan> and calendars
  792. [22:17:30] <drewinthehead> being about to add a 'save my details to your address book' link to your page is compelling
  793. [22:17:33] <bewest> kingryan: and they understand what vcard is?
  794. [22:17:41] <kingryan> they don't need to
  795. [22:17:44] <bewest> oh okok
  796. [22:17:48] <kingryan> "look it imports to your address book!"
  797. [22:17:54] * kingryan waves hands vigorously
  798. [22:17:56] * drewinthehead apologises for using the word 'compelling'
  799. [22:17:58] <Phae> if they did, they probably wouldn't be reading an article about it in a consumer magazine
  800. [22:18:22] <bewest> *drone like* look it imports to my address book
  801. [22:18:56] <bewest> drewinthehead: I like the austion.adactio thing
  802. [22:19:06] <bewest> and DanC's thing... where it automatically puts stuff on a map
  803. [22:20:11] <drewinthehead> ah yes, something with mapping
  804. [22:21:27] <briansuda> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-kml.php?uri=http://austin.adactio.com that will give you a KML file
  805. [22:21:34] <drewinthehead> what's DanC's thing?
  806. [22:21:34] <briansuda> you can then pass that through Google Maps
  807. [22:21:41] <drewinthehead> oh cool
  808. [22:22:13] <briansuda> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-kml.php%3Furi%3Dhttp://austin.adactio.com&ie=UTF8&om=1
  809. [22:22:25] <briansuda> it is not production ready, but i am working on it in am freetime
  810. [22:22:31] <drewinthehead> i think that might be a bit advanced for the audience to grok
  811. [22:22:40] <briansuda> instant Google mash-ups with geo microformats
  812. [22:22:46] <briansuda> no DOM knowledge needed
  813. [22:22:56] <drewinthehead> but DOM is fun! ;)
  814. [22:24:22] <bewest> get-kml
  815. [22:24:23] <bewest> nifty
  816. [22:24:29] <drewinthehead> i'm hearing a barrage of abuse for our beloved wiki coming across the room.
  817. [22:24:29] <bewest> briansuda: nice
  818. [22:24:38] <bewest> oh damn
  819. [22:24:45] <bewest> I was working on something like that
  820. [22:24:47] <briansuda> cheers
  821. [22:24:57] <bewest> I didn't know google maps let you pass in another resource
  822. [22:24:59] <bewest> directly
  823. [22:25:03] <bewest> I was going to build that piece
  824. [22:25:07] <bewest> damnit
  825. [22:25:19] <kingryan> bewest: you keep getting thwarted
  826. [22:25:24] <bewest> I know!
  827. [22:25:42] <bewest> I going to grow potatoes
  828. [22:25:56] <kingryan> I think someone's done that before
  829. [22:26:08] <drewinthehead> i've done geo->GPX
  830. [22:26:10] <briansuda> yahoo! does the same thing now with GeoRSS
  831. [22:26:22] <briansuda> that will be my next XSLT file
  832. [22:26:36] <bewest> only kml though?
  833. [22:26:38] <bewest> hmmm
  834. [22:26:54] <bewest> I've been thinking of starting work on a gdata -> microformats xslt
  835. [22:27:05] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ("gotta run, quittin' time")
  836. [22:27:24] <bewest> I like doing user interfaces though
  837. [22:27:52] <bewest> when did google maps start taking external resources?
  838. [22:33:02] <bewest> I'm curious: anyone around here use Literate Programming techniques? eg cweb, ctangle, cweave, noweb...
  839. [22:34:46] <Phae> night all
  840. [22:35:14] <drewinthehead> night Phae
  841. [22:35:20] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-23-226.dsl.pipex.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  842. [22:38:33] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  843. [22:38:33] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  844. [22:41:32] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  845. [22:41:32] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
  846. [22:48:59] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  847. [22:55:09] * cgriego (n=cgriego@e2.87.5d45.static.theplanet.com) has left #Microformats
  848. [23:02:59] * sreynen (n=sreynen@71-214-242-108.desm.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  849. [23:02:59] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  850. [23:04:56] <KevinMarks> does <cite> have a cite property?
  851. [23:05:06] <KevinMarks> er attribute?
  852. [23:05:19] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  853. [23:06:30] <drewinthehead> no, KevinMarks
  854. [23:06:54] <KevinMarks> I thought not
  855. [23:07:05] <kingryan> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/text.html#h-9.2.1
  856. [23:07:07] <drewinthehead> that would be plain madness :)
  857. [23:09:04] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  858. [23:09:04] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  859. [23:09:07] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  860. [23:09:18] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  861. [23:14:09] * deanero (i=dean@conference/oscon/session) has joined #microformats
  862. [23:14:09] <jibot> deanero is at OSCON-- message me!
  863. [23:14:16] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  864. [23:14:18] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  866. [23:16:18] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC9376D0.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  867. [23:16:18] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  868. [23:16:19] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  869. [23:18:20] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  870. [23:19:52] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
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  874. [23:39:02] * drewinthehead is now known as drewinthe_
  875. [23:39:45] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.31-221.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  876. [23:39:45] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

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