IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-10-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:16] <tantek> yes, cite-examples is quite thorough
  2. [00:00:54] <bewes1> my concern here is actually for species, I'm preparing an email for the list
  3. [00:01:01] <bewes1> andy suggested I check out the examples page
  4. [00:01:09] <bewes1> or at least I think he did
  5. [00:01:15] <bewes1> regarding the size of classnames
  6. [00:01:46] <bewes1> but the relationship to the strawman proposal and the examples is very confusing to me
  7. [00:01:57] <tantek> one of the big question for species in my mind is what should the microformats approach be in general to the publishing and sharing of scientific knowledge?
  8. [00:02:21] <tantek> the class names do not necessarily come from examples, but from established formats
  9. [00:02:33] <bewes1> hmmm
  10. [00:02:34] <tantek> rather the class names SHOULD come from established formats
  11. [00:02:40] <tantek> the examples merely imply the schema
  12. [00:02:45] <tantek> conceptually
  13. [00:02:48] <tantek> not in name
  14. [00:03:08] <bewes1> I beieved examples should inform the schema by behaviour, and if possibly it may imply it
  15. [00:03:11] <bewes1> eg implication is better
  16. [00:03:18] <tantek> if the relationship is confusing then it may indicate a proposal in need of improvement
  17. [00:03:21] <bewes1> but informing is a decent back up
  18. [00:03:32] <bewes1> but in this case I don't see how the examples informed the proposal
  19. [00:03:38] <bewes1> the behaviour of the examples is more akin to tagging
  20. [00:03:40] <tantek> the basic idea is examples -> imply a schema, formats -> imply names of fields for the schema
  21. [00:03:58] <bewes1> I guess I'm making a disctinction between inform versus imply then
  22. [00:04:03] <tantek> anything beyond that is simply a priori invention
  23. [00:04:32] <bewes1> the examples page in the case of species confirms that "this data is in fact published"
  24. [00:04:55] <tantek> that is only the "if" question though
  25. [00:05:15] <tantek> more importantly, are the implied schema from the examples analyzed and documented?
  26. [00:05:23] <bewes1> but there is very analysis
  27. [00:05:39] <tantek> if not, then it is difficult to brainstorm an informed (as you say) proposal
  28. [00:05:57] <bewes1> and it is unclear how the proposal reflects the analyses that do exist
  29. [00:06:01] <tantek> my larger question still stands though - what should the microformats approach be in general to the publishing and sharing of scientific knowledge?
  30. [00:06:17] * Loosive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("RAGE apply directly to the forehead, RAGE apply directly to the forehead, RAGE apply directly to the forehead")
  31. [00:06:38] <tantek> we should be at least a bit cautious with the solution of the representation of species so that it doesn't back us into a corner with regards the rest of scientific knowledge
  32. [00:06:38] <bewes1> hmmm
  33. [00:06:45] <bewes1> right
  34. [00:06:53] <bewes1> well what's interesting is the plants suggestion
  35. [00:06:56] <bewes1> which I thought was redundant
  36. [00:07:01] <bewes1> until I looked more closely
  37. [00:07:08] <bewes1> http://microformats.org/wiki/plants
  38. [00:07:08] <tantek> i'm not saying we should try to solve all formats for all scientific knowledge right away, i'm just saying we should at least keep it in mind
  39. [00:07:22] <bewes1> suggested a range of use cases that I'm not sure are supported by species
  40. [00:07:28] <tantek> interesting
  41. [00:09:26] <bewes1> also, the proposed use case of species sounds a lot like tagging to me
  42. [00:10:18] <bewes1> which is interesting because many of the examples also look like tagging
  43. [00:10:25] <bewes1> but the proposed format looks nothing like tagging
  44. [00:10:40] <tantek> that analysis would be good to add to the species-examples page then
  45. [00:10:47] <tantek> that the examples look like tagging
  46. [00:10:56] <bewes1> yeah, will add it
  47. [00:11:03] <bewes1> still gathering thoughts on this
  48. [00:11:20] <tantek> and if you think it is possible to use tagging to solve the representation of species problem, then consider adding a straw proposal of how to use rel-tag to represent species in a new section on the species-brainstorming page
  49. [00:11:57] <tantek> tagging does cover the general use case of attaching one or more labels to something
  50. [00:12:23] <bewes1> and simultaneously pointing to an "authoritative" source for that information
  51. [00:12:34] <bewes1> erm, for the symbol that represents that information
  52. [00:14:22] <tantek> or to the intended definition of that label
  53. [00:24:43] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9691 * BenWest * (-84) Mammal - removed nps.gov (404'd)
  54. [00:25:23] <bewes1> ugh this is difficult... it's grouped by classification
  55. [00:26:53] <bewes1> probably grouping by kind of publication, or publication technique would be better
  56. [00:27:11] <bewes1> or even grouping by attempt at resolution
  57. [00:34:25] <bewes1> no rel-tag examples?
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  59. [00:36:47] <bewes1> hmmm I suppose actual work is better than suggestions?
  60. [00:36:51] <bewes1> especially on the wiki
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  62. [00:37:05] <bewes1> gah this is a lot of work... I don't want to just reorganize this without any help
  63. [00:44:01] <bewes1> ah, I was wrong, Andy's site does use class names as suggested in the proposal, so one of the examples does reflect what he suggests
  64. [00:45:44] <mfbot> [[mailing-lists]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mailing-lists&diff=0&oldid=9692 * Boneill * (+18) new list proposal - added my votes
  65. [00:56:38] * tommorris (n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  66. [00:57:51] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9693 * BenWest * (+2591) suggested an alternative grouping by publish strategy (eventually) and by publisher, also added analysis for species.wikimedia.org
  67. [00:58:32] <bewes1> gah I don't see my todo notes being styled
  68. [00:58:47] <bewes1> <span class="todo">...</span> should be styled
  69. [01:06:37] <bewes1> *phew*
  70. [01:13:03] * bewes1 really fell down the rabbit hole on that one
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  75. [02:22:16] <csarven> tantek is there a content rating schema for microformats? for example; to indicate if the content/media contains any adult subject
  76. [02:22:31] <csarven> see www.icra.org
  77. [02:23:23] <bewes1> sounds like hreview
  78. [02:29:43] * remi (i=remi@c66.203.211-125.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  79. [02:29:44] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  80. [03:19:24] <tantek> csarven, tagging works for that
  81. [03:19:35] <csarven> like?
  82. [03:19:47] <tantek> if something is adult you tag it as "adult"
  83. [03:20:00] <tantek> if you want to tag it more specifically, like why it is adult, you can do that too
  84. [03:20:10] <csarven> which format would it be picked up by? hreview you mean?
  85. [03:20:14] <tantek> if you want to use a specific rating/labeling system, you can use those as tags, and link to the definitions
  86. [03:20:19] <tantek> yes
  87. [03:20:22] <tantek> or even xFolk
  88. [03:20:24] <csarven> ok
  89. [03:20:49] <csarven> thanks. will look into this
  90. [03:25:05] <csarven> what about following ICRA's scheme. that needs to be implemented then right?
  91. [03:41:32] <tantek> you just need URLs for their values
  92. [03:42:14] <csarven> oh nice
  93. [03:59:46] * remi (i=remi@c66.203.211-125.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
  94. [04:10:37] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9694 * BenWest * (+2389) started group by publishers section
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  96. [04:45:14] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9695 * BenWest * (-192) Insect - removed the sloe bug link (404)
  97. [04:53:00] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9696 * BenWest * (-92) Arachnid - nature.com link requires premium subscription. removed
  98. [04:53:28] <bewes1> a lot of these examples are just free text
  99. [04:55:31] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9697 * BenWest * (-137) Arachnid - removed duplicate link requiring premium subscription.
  100. [04:56:47] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9698 * BenWest * (+73) Arachnid - added a note that this is a duplicate already listed.
  101. [05:19:49] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9699 * BenWest * (+14) moved my sections to the bottom
  102. [05:20:40] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9700 * BenWest * (+3552) Grouped By Publisher - saved my work for the night.
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  106. [05:41:49] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  108. [06:15:07] <Frederic> morning
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  111. [06:58:49] <mfbot> [[licensing-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9701 * Mike Linksvayer * (+206) Discussion - too url-happy?
  112. [07:01:15] <mfbot> [[licensing-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9702 * Mike Linksvayer * (+516) Strawman example - sub-strawman speculatin
  113. [07:02:46] <mfbot> [[licensing-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9703 * Mike Linksvayer * (+206) Discussion - oops, can't edit two sections simultaneously and independently, restoring lost changes
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  117. [09:31:01] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
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  119. [10:17:10] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  191. [11:10:59] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9704 * AndyMabbett * (+132) species.mediawiki.org - response
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  193. [11:14:25] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9705 * AndyMabbett * (+138)
  194. [11:18:01] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9706 * AndyMabbett * (+116) Arachnid - replace rewmoved link
  195. [11:18:12] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9707 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Arachnid -
  196. [11:21:59] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9708 * AndyMabbett * (-8644) moving for page length
  197. [11:22:10] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/species-examples-regrouped * AndyMabbett * (+8669) moved
  198. [11:22:51] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9709 * AndyMabbett * (+56)
  199. [11:23:12] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9710 * AndyMabbett * (-2)
  200. [11:24:28] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9711 * AndyMabbett * (+109) Mammal - replace removed example#
  201. [11:24:54] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9712 * AndyMabbett * (+21) Mammal -
  202. [11:35:45] * briansuda (n=briansud@thjodarbokhlada.hotspot.hive.is) has joined #microformats
  203. [11:35:45] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  204. [11:35:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  205. [11:47:30] <mfbot> [[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9713 * Adactio * (+72) Blog Posts -
  206. [11:49:16] <mfbot> [[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9714 * Adactio * (+64) Audio -
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  208. [11:56:20] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  209. [12:17:03] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9715 * AndyMabbett * (+40) West Midland Bird Club - correction
  210. [12:18:19] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9716 * AndyMabbett * (+77) West Midland Bird Club - further detail
  211. [12:24:25] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9717 * AndyMabbett * (+184) West Midland Bird Club - another example
  212. [12:28:46] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9718 * AndyMabbett * (+258) West Midland Bird Club -
  213. [12:33:03] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9719 * AndyMabbett * (+253) Birds -
  214. [12:33:04] * bergie (n=bergie@miezi.yok.utu.fi) has joined #microformats
  215. [12:33:05] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  216. [12:33:24] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9720 * AndyMabbett * (+258) Plant -
  217. [12:33:50] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9721 * AndyMabbett * (+32) Plant -
  218. [12:34:41] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9722 * AndyMabbett * (+73) Birds -
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  224. [13:16:27] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  225. [13:20:55] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) has joined #microformats
  226. [13:20:56] <jibot> kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
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  229. [13:42:22] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  234. [14:01:29] * kensanata (n=alex@pdpc/supporter/active/kensanata) Quit ("gone")
  235. [14:09:50] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9723 * SXBRC * (+806) Sussex Biodiversity Record Centre -
  236. [14:10:07] * Whiskey_M (i=user@host-84-9-127-20.bulldogdsl.com) Quit ("pub")
  237. [14:11:21] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=9724 * SXBRC * (+78) Clients -
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  242. [14:42:08] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9725 * SXBRC * (+16) Sussex Biodiversity Record Centre -
  243. [15:05:57] * trovster (n=trovster@host217-42-181-227.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  244. [15:05:57] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  245. [15:07:58] * Zeeshan_M (i=develope@o.1.vg) Quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  247. [15:13:05] <mfbot> [[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9726 * MarkNormanFrancis * (+10) Slides -
  248. [15:13:21] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=9727 * CiaranMc * (-1) Issues -
  249. [15:13:37] <trovster> GRrr, why doesn't colloquy remember my ignores :@
  250. [15:25:08] * neuraxon77 (n=craig@cust7394.vic01.dataco.com.au) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  252. [15:31:57] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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  254. [15:35:49] * tom-morris is now known as tommorris
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  256. [15:39:03] <mfbot> [[species]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species&diff=0&oldid=9728 * AndyMabbett * (+228) Note on uF name
  257. [15:39:33] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9729 * AndyMabbett * (+228) Note on uF name
  258. [15:39:45] <mfbot> [[species-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples&diff=0&oldid=9730 * AndyMabbett * (+228) Note on uF name
  259. [15:40:06] <mfbot> [[species-examples-regrouped]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9731 * AndyMabbett * (+228) Note on uF name
  260. [15:47:29] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
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  262. [15:56:29] <jibot> kensanata is blogging at http://www.emacswiki.org/alex/
  263. [16:11:52] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Aav125.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  264. [16:15:42] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9732 * AndyMabbett * (+193) Straw man proposal - redraft straw-man, to reflect recent debate
  265. [16:23:30] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  268. [16:37:35] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  269. [16:37:39] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=9733 * AndyMabbett * (+8) Proposal - update
  270. [16:50:29] <tantek> another good post on the recent WSG meeting: http://cazmockett.blogspot.com/2006/10/wsg-london-2-microformats.html
  271. [16:53:51] * bergie (n=bergie@gprs-prointernet-ffd44700-144.dhcp.inet.fi) Quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
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  278. [18:11:46] <tommorris> Look what I just found - http://fresh.t-systems-sfr.com/unix/src/www/WebCalendar-devel-1.1.1.tar.gz:a/WebCalendar-1.1.1/includes/classes/hKit/hcal.profile.php
  279. [18:12:00] <tommorris> An hKit profile for hCal
  280. [18:14:57] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  281. [18:18:09] <tommorris> It works too - just tested it.
  282. [18:19:33] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  283. [18:21:34] * trovster (n=trovster@host217-42-181-227.range217-42.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
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  285. [18:33:18] * remi (i=remi@c66.203.211-125.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  286. [18:33:18] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  287. [18:39:18] * arty_name (n=me@ppp83-237-17-204.pppoe.mtu-net.ru) has joined #microformats
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  289. [18:43:09] <drewinthehead> woah .. that's awesome tommorris
  290. [18:44:29] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("biab")
  291. [19:01:15] <drewinthehead> how did you find that, tommorris?
  292. [19:01:43] <tantek> please add that to hCalendar implementations on the wiki
  293. [19:06:40] * kain (n=10400D79@213-140-22-70.fastres.net) has joined #microformats
  294. [19:12:45] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=9734 * DrewMcLellan * (+211) Libraries - - Added link to hCalendar profile for hKit (PHP section)
  295. [19:12:55] <drewinthehead> as requested :)
  296. [19:16:48] <drewinthehead> this is what i look like when giving a microformats presentation.. http://flickr.com/photos/kurafire/276428427/
  297. [19:18:38] * kain (n=10400D79@213-140-22-70.fastres.net) Quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
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  300. [19:23:29] * bewes1 (n=ben@c-24-7-41-140.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  301. [19:31:56] <tantek> very nice drew
  302. [19:32:22] <drewinthehead> next time i'll try to remember to face the audience ;)
  303. [19:35:37] <tantek> it looks like a studio shot
  304. [19:36:20] <drewinthehead> faruk had a monster lens on his camera .. like a really serious pap lens
  305. [19:36:28] * bewes1 wonders why andy is editing the wiki on behalf of charles roper
  306. [19:37:18] <tantek> bewes1, any particular edit you are concerned about?
  307. [19:38:01] <bewes1> http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-examples-regrouped&diff=0&oldid=9715 was performed by andy, but contains comments from charles roper
  308. [19:39:03] <tantek> hmm... that is a bit odd. perhaps it was a copy and paste from another page?
  309. [19:39:12] <bewes1> I don't think so
  310. [19:39:20] <bewes1> andy moved my work from species-examples to here
  311. [19:39:33] <bewes1> and then performed this edit some time after that
  312. [19:39:50] <bewes1> still might be possible though; who knows
  313. [19:40:24] <bewes1> I don't mind the comment being there, since it kind of proves my point
  314. [19:43:22] <bewes1> hehe "drew points to the light"
  315. [19:43:53] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable128.203-56-74.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  316. [19:43:53] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  317. [19:47:37] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=9735 * 2006@malarkey.co.uk * (-223)
  318. [19:48:18] <mfbot> [[implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=9736 * 2006@malarkey.co.uk * (-2)
  319. [19:51:28] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  320. [19:51:28] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  321. [19:52:11] * bewes1 supposes karova doesn't support uF after all?
  322. [19:52:31] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  325. [20:29:10] <tommorris> drew - Google code search ".profile.php"
  326. [20:29:12] <tantek> never seen someone use an email address as a wiki username before.
  327. [20:31:38] <tommorris> drewinthehead - I'm not getting very sensible results from it though - http://tools.opiumfield.com/hkit/test.php5
  328. [20:32:44] <drewinthehead> the thing that's stopped me doing an hCalendar profile so far is that i need to design a method of using multiple profiles at once
  329. [20:32:56] <drewinthehead> for hCalendar, you're going to need to know about hCard too, right?
  330. [20:33:41] <tommorris> Not necessarily - it would be useful but not necessary
  331. [20:34:01] <drewinthehead> what i'm thinking at the moment is that the profile parameter could be an array of profiles
  332. [20:34:33] <tommorris> That would be useful. I'm not sure why I'm getting the results like this.
  333. [20:35:08] <tommorris> There's whitespace problems - http://tools.opiumfield.com/hkit/test.php5?url=http://upcoming.org/event/112576/
  334. [20:36:33] <drewinthehead> doesn't look too bad
  335. [20:36:55] <drewinthehead> what whitespace in particular?
  336. [20:37:17] <tommorris> Well, lots of words are put together - in the description, for instance.
  337. [20:37:38] <tommorris> http://tools.opiumfield.com/hkit/test.php5?url=http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/diary/2006-10.htm
  338. [20:38:02] <drewinthehead> ah ok
  339. [20:38:08] <drewinthehead> that's quite likely to be my bug
  340. [20:38:40] <drewinthehead> i've developed mostly against hCard at the moment, which tends to have just short strings of text where this stuff is less likely to happen
  341. [20:39:59] <tommorris> Okay. I'll take a look through the code and see what I can find.
  342. [20:42:45] <tommorris> Got it - lines 287/288 in hkit.class.php
  343. [20:42:55] <mfbot> [[events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-10-19-wsg-microformats-meetup&diff=0&oldid=9737 * Adactio * (+211) Photos -
  344. [20:44:20] <tommorris> It'll probably break other stuff - but it's just adding a space in the replace part of the regex on line 287
  345. [20:44:21] <drewinthehead> ah, linebreaks.
  346. [20:44:46] <tommorris> Everything else I can fix easily by using PHP functions like htmlspecialchars etc.
  347. [20:45:12] <drewinthehead> perhaps replace breaks with a space and then remove double spaces
  348. [20:45:39] <drewinthehead> oh, which is what i'm doing already
  349. [20:45:41] <drewinthehead> man.
  350. [20:46:17] <drewinthehead> this code sucks
  351. [20:46:31] <tommorris> I've just run it and I can't find any double spaces.
  352. [20:47:26] <tommorris> The only thing that would be useful would be if the hCal profile took out the timestamp from the title on the DT elements rather than the text content.
  353. [20:48:50] <drewinthehead> you can set it to do that
  354. [20:48:52] <drewinthehead> let me look
  355. [20:49:14] <tommorris> Presumably it's in the $this->att_map
  356. [20:49:32] <drewinthehead> right
  357. [20:49:52] <drewinthehead> 'dtstart' => array('ABBR|title')
  358. [20:50:12] <drewinthehead> although, to be honest, it should be looking for title on ABBR by default
  359. [20:50:28] <tommorris> Do I have to put in all the possible options? Some sites use SPAN or DIV (or even TD) elements
  360. [20:51:14] <drewinthehead> no, these are just special cases to coerce
  361. [20:51:44] <drewinthehead> it should always fall back to basic common sense
  362. [20:52:44] <drewinthehead> line 276 should be catching the titles
  363. [20:53:08] <drewinthehead> (i take it back, some of this code is ace :) )
  364. [20:54:40] <tommorris> It's brilliant - it's saved me about fifty headaches.
  365. [20:55:01] <drewinthehead> yay! :)
  366. [20:55:09] <tommorris> Oh no, sorry - I was being absent-minded. It is showing the datestamp properly.
  367. [20:55:16] <drewinthehead> hah
  368. [20:56:00] <tommorris> I just haven't coded the source page properly to add the time stamp.
  369. [20:56:25] <tommorris> Sorry about that - in that case, a big congratulations - your code now has hCal support! ;>
  370. [20:57:25] <drewinthehead> w00t!
  371. [20:57:45] <tommorris> Another step down the "make microformats easy for noobs" route.
  372. [20:58:53] <tantek> nice work gentlemen
  373. [20:59:16] * drewinthehead doffs his cap
  374. [20:59:31] <tommorris> Next step, hReview. But now, I think it's time for a drink.
  375. [20:59:46] * drewinthehead is already on the Old Peculiar
  376. [21:00:06] <tommorris> I meant to thank you, Drew, for an excellent talk on Thursday.
  377. [21:02:50] <drewinthehead> ah, glad you liked it. i was a bit apprehensive - don't normally do presentations
  378. [21:03:20] <tommorris> No, it went well.
  379. [21:03:27] <drewinthehead> :)
  380. [21:05:30] <tommorris> I've got the podcasts of all the sessions which I'll be burning in to the brains of everyone who needs to know.
  381. [21:07:44] <mcknut> ah, hello drewinthehead, afraid I missed most of your talk on Thursday :-/
  382. [21:08:07] <mcknut> but what I saw was good :)
  383. [21:08:40] <drewinthehead> :)
  384. [21:08:59] <mcknut> oh actually, getting the order mixed up, I saw all of yours
  385. [21:09:42] <mcknut> afraid I haven't done my homework yet, but I have put mac support into tails export, which I think is a good enough excuse ;)
  386. [21:10:03] <drewinthehead> yeah, that'll do :)
  387. [21:10:08] <drewinthehead> i was on last
  388. [21:10:30] <mcknut> yeah, you were ghost of microformats future
  389. [21:11:33] <tantek> be sure to add the podcasts to http://microformats.org/wiki/podcasts
  390. [21:12:44] * tommorris won a Yahoo USB stick!
  391. [21:13:04] <drewinthehead> exciting!
  392. [21:13:04] <tommorris> s/won/was given unexpectedly for asking a question
  393. [21:14:36] <mcknut> hehe
  394. [21:15:19] <drewinthehead> i'm turning in. catchya later guys.
  395. [21:15:37] <tommorris> Seeya - thanks for the help with hKit
  396. [21:15:47] <mcknut> nn
  397. [21:22:48] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=9738 * AndyMabbett * (+144) Proprietary attribute - W3C validator barfs
  398. [21:23:52] <tantek> drew, in case you are still around, could you take a look at http://allinthehead.com/demo/include.html and see if there are any errant 'data' attributes on <a> tags?
  399. [21:37:29] <tommorris> Just found out - Facebook use hCal for their events pages.
  400. [21:39:14] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=9739 * TomMorris * (+70) Examples in the wild - added facebook
  401. [22:28:42] * remi (i=remi@c66.203.211-125.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
  402. [22:31:05] <bewes1> neat
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  417. [23:46:36] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  418. [23:47:14] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has left #microformats

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