IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  4. [00:05:06] <RCanine> Thanks
  5. [00:05:33] <RCanine> kingryan: er... thanks
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  9. [00:25:16] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  10. [00:26:31] <mkaply> question for anyone around. my experience is showing that despite docs that say YYYY-MM-DDThh:mmTZD is ok
  11. [00:26:47] <mkaply> it would seem that ical, outlook, google, etc. require YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:ssTZD
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  13. [00:38:29] <KevinMarks> google's webservice wants it without dashes and colons, and only accepts Z (or at least thats what I found empirically)
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  16. [00:40:46] <mkaply> and it doesn't like it if seconds aren't there but a Z is specified
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  20. [01:09:30] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15184 * ManuSporny * (+90) Individual publishing of video -
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  29. [02:29:24] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=15185 * RyanKing * (+233) Using RFC2806 with hCard -
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  32. [03:01:06] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=15186 * ManuSporny * (+979) Updated list of all video service sites
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  36. [03:20:19] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  49. [05:33:03] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  58. [07:13:58] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  63. [07:30:45] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  65. [07:55:42] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  70. [08:04:39] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  75. [08:19:51] <jibot> tylerr is Tyler Roehmholdt and involves himself in the HTML WG and WaSP-related advocacy.
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  80. [08:38:15] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  88. [10:26:19] <mfbot> [[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=15187 * AndyMabbett * (+99) Examples in the wild -
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  93. [10:45:46] <mfbot> [[existing-classes]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=existing-classes&diff=0&oldid=15188 * FlorianBeer * (+0) Class Names Across All Microformats -
  94. [10:49:17] <mfbot> [[existing-classes]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=existing-classes&diff=0&oldid=15189 * FlorianBeer * (+0)
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  96. [10:54:33] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15190 * Avol * (+400)
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  100. [11:06:09] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15191 * AndyMabbett * (-400) v -------------------------------------- spam
  101. [11:16:46] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15192 * Avol * (+401)
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  105. [11:46:03] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=15193 * Phae * (-401) Reverted edit of Avol, changed back to last version by AndyMabbett
  106. [11:46:19] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Phae * (+0) blocked "User:Avol" with an expiry time of forever: spam
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  109. [11:53:32] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  113. [12:07:42] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
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  115. [12:26:17] <mfbot> [[last-modified-examples-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/last-modified-examples-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+6266)
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  119. [12:35:09] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  128. [13:02:10] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  130. [13:20:35] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15194 * FlorianBeer * (+116) New Examples -
  131. [13:21:16] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15195 * FlorianBeer * (+36) New Examples -
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  136. [14:08:24] <kwijibo> were µf actually used for missing persons after a disaster, or were people just talking about the possibility?
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  139. [14:23:27] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  141. [14:25:37] <davecardwell> I would like to mark up more than one paragraph of a hresume as a summary - since they are not necessarily adjacent will am I safe to use class="summary" on more than one <p>, or must they be inside a single element with the class?
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  145. [14:29:39] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  146. [14:40:41] <kwijibo> davecardwell: I haven't been able to find an xslt or parser for hresume, but I'd just put the paras into a div[@class='summary'] - safer, and probably makes more sense
  147. [14:41:54] <davecardwell> well I had hoped to have a general summary, and then a couple more that were specific to particular areas of "expertise" elsewhere in the document
  148. [14:45:29] <davecardwell> I take your point though, it would probably be safer to combine them all under one summary element
  149. [14:45:34] <davecardwell> I'll see what I can tweak
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  154. [14:51:31] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  156. [14:57:09] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  157. [14:57:09] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  158. [14:59:14] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  159. [14:59:26] <davecardwell> afternoon tantek
  160. [14:59:52] <davecardwell> I wonder if you could cast your eye over something I asked a short while ago: "I would like to mark up more than one paragraph of a hresume as a summary - since they are not necessarily adjacent will am I safe to use class="summary" on more than one <p>, or must they be inside a single element with the class?"
  161. [15:00:24] <tantek> you should use
  162. [15:00:27] <tantek> value excerpting
  163. [15:00:41] <tantek> e.g. put a div around those <p>s
  164. [15:00:42] <davecardwell> I'm trying to have a generic summary, and a couple more elsewhere in the document specific to particular skills
  165. [15:00:48] <tantek> with class="summary"
  166. [15:00:50] <tantek> on the div
  167. [15:01:03] <tantek> and then the specific <p>s in the summary, put class="value"
  168. [15:01:23] <tantek> that should cause them to be concatenated into a summary
  169. [15:01:36] <tantek> you may however just want to markup the generic summary with class="summary"
  170. [15:01:41] <tantek> as that is the intent of that property
  171. [15:01:53] <davecardwell> hrm, yes that sounds sensible
  172. [15:01:56] <davecardwell> thank you
  173. [15:03:13] <tantek> np!
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  189. [16:17:09] <mkaply> are there any major event sites that use timezone offsets for scheduling
  190. [16:17:30] * mkaply finds a website where date/time info is only contained in the microformat, NOT on the webpage?!?1
  191. [16:28:57] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("bye")
  192. [16:32:25] * danja (n=danja@host147-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  193. [16:32:25] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  197. [16:59:33] <jibot> tylerr is Tyler Roehmholdt and involves himself in the HTML WG and WaSP-related advocacy.
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  201. [17:08:46] <mfbot> [[icons]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=icons&diff=0&oldid=15196 * SunBurntKamel * (+117) sorry if this is the wrong place. -
  202. [17:08:52] * AGraf`` (n=Ashe@213.47.199.86) Quit ("Quit")
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  205. [17:10:43] <aajhiggs> I'm doing a website for a couple who are getting married. They have asked for their details to be displayed as "Robin & Shelley Bloggs" followed by an address and phone numbers, but I'm not sure how to markup the names - do they have to be on seperate hcards as they are not really an 'organisation'?
  206. [17:12:48] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  208. [17:13:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  209. [17:13:16] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  210. [17:17:13] <mfbot> [[User talk:SamRose]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:SamRose&diff=0&oldid=15197 * SamRose * (+29) Thanks!
  211. [17:18:53] <Azath0th> boy, the microformats wiki really has A LOT of information to draw from :)
  212. [17:31:08] <mkaply> aajhiggs: i would probably do an fn of "Robin & Shelley Bloggs" and not specificy any n specifics or an org
  213. [17:31:09] <mkaply> that should work
  214. [17:31:55] <aajhiggs> thats what ive gone for in the end. thanks mkaply
  215. [17:31:56] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-628db4ed5a84064b) Quit ("Leaving")
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  220. [17:41:38] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  225. [18:06:50] <jibot> WizCraker is Caxi@Eitrigg, WoW, US, Alliance and Dustin D'Amour
  226. [18:20:07] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  227. [18:20:07] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  228. [18:21:11] <mfbot> [[User:AndrewKuchling]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:AndrewKuchling * AndrewKuchling * (+99)
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  234. [19:12:03] * factoryjoe (n=factoryj@65.87.23.35) Quit (No route to host)
  235. [19:13:59] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=15198 * Montgoss * (+0) Example -
  236. [19:14:36] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=15199 * Tantek * (+0) Reverted edit of Montgoss, changed back to last version by DanMoore
  237. [19:15:23] <tantek> I need to document the dtend thing better - it appears folks are "correcting" it incorrectly because it looks inconsistent for the visible text date to be 1 off from the ISO date.
  238. [19:18:09] <mkaply> tantek: I know upcoming.org got it wrong. They haven't fixed it yet. I have a hack in Op 0.7 to work around upcoming.org
  239. [19:18:49] <mkaply> The funny part is that they fix the dtend when exporting for outlook.
  240. [19:18:49] <tantek> I wonder if it is too late for us to change this
  241. [19:18:54] <tantek> yeah
  242. [19:19:08] <mkaply> I don't see how we can change it since the vcard spec is clear
  243. [19:19:10] <mkaply> isn't it?
  244. [19:19:18] <tantek> iCalendar RFC2445, but yes
  245. [19:19:39] <mkaply> short of creating a dtwhenitreallyends :)
  246. [19:19:40] <KevinMarks> I got an alert from google calendar at 10 mins to midnight the day etech started. That was amusing
  247. [19:19:41] <tantek> what we can do is point out how that semantic is user-unfriendly, causes confusion (cite all the examples we've experienced)
  248. [19:19:49] <tantek> and then move the "logic" to converters
  249. [19:20:05] <mkaply> KevinMarks: google calendar doesn't handle all day events well at all.
  250. [19:20:05] <tantek> when doing hCalendar dtend -> iCalendar dtend parsing/conversion
  251. [19:20:46] <KevinMarks> we could perhaps define the edge case of start/end being a non-timed date and identical as lasting a whole day; that is the common anomalous case
  252. [19:22:13] <mkaply> KevinMarks: I've seen the problem a lot with multii day conferences that don't specify the time as well
  253. [19:22:38] * danja (n=danja@host147-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  254. [19:23:43] <tantek> KevinMarks, I advise you to read the details of what RFC2445 says on dtstart and dtend before you make proposals - RFC2445 handles *some* of that already.
  255. [19:24:02] <tantek> the case here is that Google Calendar may not be fully RFC2445 compliant.
  256. [19:24:59] <mkaply> actually, I thought google was compliant.
  257. [19:25:17] <tantek> the alarm 10mins to midnight doesn't sound compliant
  258. [19:25:20] <tantek> or maybe it's just bad UI
  259. [19:26:00] <tantek> mkaply, I mean both on input and output also - not sure if they treat imported .ics fully compliantly, especially if it causes an alarm at 10min to midnight
  260. [19:26:37] <mkaply> tantek: I think it's bad UI. They require time/date for everything. So you can't express that an event is multiday without saying it starts at midnight
  261. [19:26:54] <Azath0th> does the "exclusion" only apply for full day events? or do i have to set times also, say one minute after it ends?
  262. [19:27:36] <KevinMarks> I can take them feedback - they do display the all-day events along the top as banners, as iCal does
  263. [19:27:48] <tantek> mkaply, then that's not RFC2445 compliant
  264. [19:27:56] <tantek> because iCal allows for "whole day" events
  265. [19:28:04] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  266. [19:28:21] <mkaply> KevinMarks: but if I try to create an event without times, it doesn't work
  267. [19:28:48] <mkaply> Azath0th: you're last.fm problem has caused me much pain. I am rewriting all my date/time conversions. Thanks :)
  268. [19:28:57] <Azath0th> sorry *g*
  269. [19:29:30] <mkaply> KevinMarks: hmm. I missed something here. hold on
  270. [19:30:20] <mkaply> KevinMarks: ok. Got it. The all day stuff is there. I swear it wasn't before. The alarm problem must be something else
  271. [19:31:04] <KevinMarks> it is there, yes
  272. [19:31:19] <KevinMarks> and it bringsin the upcoming.org ones OK
  273. [19:31:45] <mkaply> KevinMarks: except they are a day off. like
  274. [19:31:45] <mkaply> http://upcoming.org/event/110145/
  275. [19:32:33] <KevinMarks> hm, why is upcoming not putting the microformats in the RSS feed?
  276. [19:33:37] <mkaply> Azath0th: basically it appears that there are services (multiple services) that don't like Z or TZ offset if seconds isn't specified. So what I'm doing now is normalizing all dates to have seconds. And I've added code to properly pass Z and TZ Offset to services that accept it or convert to local time if they don't
  277. [19:33:58] <Azath0th> seems like the best way to do it
  278. [19:34:36] <mkaply> so that event on lastfm registers at 6:34 AM for me in 30 boxes/google/outlook (so far)
  279. [19:34:52] <Azath0th> great
  280. [19:35:01] <Azath0th> i'll try it again once i'm done here
  281. [19:35:09] <tantek> mkaply - when you find problems in hCalendar implementations PLEASE note them next to the implementation on http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-implementations
  282. [19:35:23] <tantek> we have to publicly document these problems so the implementers know about it etc
  283. [19:35:28] <tantek> and the same with examples in the wild
  284. [19:38:05] <mkaply> tantek: i don't know that I call them problems though. The APIs can take whatever they want. The fact that google calendar doesn't take TZ offsets isn't really an hcalendar problem
  285. [19:38:26] <tantek> no i mean like with the dtend stuff
  286. [19:38:29] <tantek> as you mentioned for upcoming
  287. [19:38:36] <tantek> you shouldn't have to put a workaround into operator
  288. [19:38:44] <tantek> and certainly not without first publicly documenting the bug!
  289. [19:38:48] <mkaply> tantek: I've been actively harassing them :)
  290. [19:39:10] <tantek> noting it on the wiki helps the community as a whole
  291. [19:39:12] <mkaply> Maybe I should publicly flog them like I did last time.
  292. [19:39:26] <tantek> the more visible the data, the more accurate right?
  293. [19:39:44] <mkaply> tantek: yep. Updating wild now.
  294. [19:40:05] <tantek> thanks very much sir!
  295. [19:42:30] <mkaply> tantek: Are you or anyone you know a drupal user?
  296. [19:42:54] <mkaply> They use rel="tag" for their taxononmy modules which results in really bad tags (like 1 or 2 or 3)
  297. [19:43:09] <mkaply> http://drupal.org/
  298. [19:49:21] <mkaply> weird. I can browse the wiki, but it's not taking changes
  299. [19:52:37] <KevinMarks> jonas luster did some work on drupal tagging a while back
  300. [20:01:38] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-0cebe23e61bfb576) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  301. [20:05:32] <cgriego> if you mix in the pathauto module then Drupal's rel-tags work great
  302. [20:07:54] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15200 * MikeKaply * (-3764) New Examples -
  303. [20:08:36] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  304. [20:08:36] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
  305. [20:08:50] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  306. [20:09:22] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  307. [20:13:42] <mkaply> can someone revert examples in the wild please.
  308. [20:13:59] <mkaply> hcalendar that is
  309. [20:16:59] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  310. [20:17:47] * danja (n=danja@host147-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  311. [20:17:47] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  312. [20:18:00] * danja (n=danja@host147-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  313. [20:25:19] * w[brb] (n=wtf@80-41-63-142.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  314. [20:26:38] <mkaply> Is there a way I can do a revert easily? Or do I just cut and paste?
  315. [20:27:14] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has joined #microformats
  316. [20:29:43] * Kilianvalkhof (n=Kay@a80-100-213-232.adsl.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  317. [20:29:44] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  318. [20:33:57] * w[brb] (n=wtf@80.47.11.123) has joined #microformats
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  322. [20:51:28] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.78 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]")
  323. [20:52:29] * factoryjoe (n=factoryj@65.87.23.35) has joined #microformats
  324. [20:56:06] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15201 * Tantek * (+3764) Reverted edit of MikeKaply, changed back to last version by FlorianBeer
  325. [20:56:14] <tantek> mkaply - just saw your note and reverted
  326. [20:56:28] <mkaply> tantel: thanks
  327. [20:57:03] <tantek> perhaps we need a word to summon admins that may have irc in the background
  328. [20:57:26] <mkaply> should have used a name at least :)
  329. [20:57:28] <tantek> perhaps "adminhelp" ?
  330. [20:58:24] <kingryan> just say "tantek, kingryan, sreynen, bewest"
  331. [20:58:26] <kingryan> :D
  332. [20:58:50] <tantek> i've added "adminhelp" to my list of Highlight words in Colloquy
  333. [21:00:15] <sreynen> either way works for me
  334. [21:00:15] <mkaply> tantek: I'm having the same problem. My request to change the wiki is simply not returning. So if I cancel, I'll hose it again
  335. [21:00:31] <tantek> what request to change the wiki?
  336. [21:00:38] <tantek> if you close the window, that should work
  337. [21:00:49] <tantek> if the wiki does change, you'll see it here in IRFC
  338. [21:00:50] <tantek> IRC
  339. [21:01:19] * kingryan added "adminhelp" to list
  340. [21:01:29] <mkaply> tantek: I'm trying to update that page again, but the submit is not returning. That's what caused me to mess up the page in the frist place. I waited for 5 minutes the first time
  341. [21:01:47] * mkaply waits patiently
  342. [21:01:47] <tantek> what browser are you using?
  343. [21:01:53] <mkaply> Firefox! :)
  344. [21:02:11] <tantek> perhaps try IE7 and see if you get the same results?
  345. [21:02:18] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=15202 * RyanKing * (+147) added note about adminhelp
  346. [21:03:18] <mkaply> I'm beginning to wonder if it is something in my change
  347. [21:03:29] <mkaply> IT's nothing weird though
  348. [21:03:49] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15203 * MikeKaply * (-3764) New Examples -
  349. [21:04:11] <mkaply> strange. Problem at the exact same place
  350. [21:05:08] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  351. [21:05:20] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15204 * MikeKaply * (+4074) New Examples -
  352. [21:05:33] <mkaply> worked in IE 6.
  353. [21:05:40] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  354. [21:05:44] <bewest> hmm?
  355. [21:05:54] * bewest just saw his name highlighted
  356. [21:05:56] <tantek> yeah, we've troubles before with particular browsers / browser-versions truncating content
  357. [21:05:57] * bewest scans
  358. [21:06:10] <tantek> bewest, add "adminhelp" to your highlight list
  359. [21:06:23] <tantek> and get another admin to do so as well ;)
  360. [21:06:27] <bewest> hmm
  361. [21:06:31] * bewest checks gaim's options
  362. [21:06:32] <tantek> and then get them to get another admin... etc.
  363. [21:07:18] <bewest> ok gaim is not up to the task
  364. [21:07:21] <bewest> :-(
  365. [21:08:08] <bewest> maybe I can switch to irssi + some IRC->other chat gateway
  366. [21:09:24] <thecrypto> bitlbee
  367. [21:10:42] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  368. [21:14:11] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  369. [21:20:32] <tylerr> Woops hmm, tantek, should I be in #wasp? Seems the room is for the members only?
  370. [21:21:23] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  371. [21:21:23] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  372. [21:28:18] <tantek> tylerr, you could ask and see what people say in the room
  373. [21:28:57] * tylerr nods
  374. [21:32:42] <pnhChris> that would be a good idea . but no.. its not intended as a public forum
  375. [21:34:13] <tylerr> Righto pnhChris. Eager to get involved here. :-)
  376. [21:36:51] <ianloic> Hixie, so opera implemented <video>?
  377. [21:37:42] * tantek is experiencing IRC channel cross-overs.
  378. [21:38:01] <hober> wheeee.
  379. [21:38:11] <ianloic> tantek, that was irc crossing with twitter, actually
  380. [21:38:26] <pnhChris> scary!
  381. [21:38:54] <ianloic> not as scary as my coworker's twitter getting reposted as a private lj post from someone I haven't met
  382. [21:40:05] <factoryjoe> ianloic: what do you think of The Coop?
  383. [21:40:08] <ianloic> mkaply, we realised we could do light-weight microformattish page scraping in gecko using -moz-binding
  384. [21:40:24] <ianloic> factoryjoe, well, they're not pretending to play nice anymore :)
  385. [21:40:55] <ianloic> factoryjoe, but raj and anthony hacked together a myspace bar that did basically that at an SHDH and didn't depend on the site having an API
  386. [21:41:09] <factoryjoe> i heard that
  387. [21:41:13] <factoryjoe> though it never surfaced
  388. [21:41:13] <ianloic> factoryjoe, and then we spend six months failing to work out the right way to generalize it.
  389. [21:41:23] <factoryjoe> so firefox gets cred for being the first to have "people in the browser"
  390. [21:41:28] <factoryjoe> heh
  391. [21:41:31] <factoryjoe> rockstah!
  392. [21:41:43] <ianloic> factoryjoe, so it's a hard problem that they haven't begun to solve, but the fact they're intending to is interesting
  393. [21:42:04] <ianloic> factoryjoe, myspacebar has been in SVN forever
  394. [21:42:10] <ianloic> factoryjoe, it's as released as "the coop"
  395. [21:42:28] <ianloic> factoryjoe, but since it probably violates the ToS of MySpace it wasn't possible to promote it :(
  396. [21:42:40] <mkaply> ianloic: so you're attaching an XBL binding to DOM nodes?
  397. [21:43:36] <ianloic> factoryjoe, the flock nightlies have had facebook support for 5 or 6 months too
  398. [21:43:42] <factoryjoe> ianloic: oh?
  399. [21:43:50] <factoryjoe> i tried out sulfer and couldn't get into it
  400. [21:43:52] <ianloic> mkaply, not yet, but we've been experimenting.
  401. [21:44:01] <factoryjoe> i think that it's good to see FF movement on this
  402. [21:44:09] <factoryjoe> will hopefully kick flock into gear
  403. [21:44:11] <factoryjoe> but we'll see
  404. [21:44:34] <ianloic> factoryjoe, yeah, it has to happen at the platform level. mozilla corp were always pretty hostile and flock management was always pretty paranoid so it wasn't really possible to try to push that stuff down
  405. [21:44:48] <ianloic> factoryjoe, there's too much money on the line on both sides
  406. [21:45:31] <mkaply> ianloic: so build your own version and screw them
  407. [21:45:33] <ianloic> mkaply, imaging .vcard { -moz-binding: url(microformats.xml#hcard); }
  408. [21:45:47] <ianloic> mkaply, that's Hard
  409. [21:45:58] <ianloic> representing social stuff in the browser is hard
  410. [21:45:59] * mkaply means screw them in the nicest way possible since these logs are archived :)
  411. [21:46:03] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  412. [21:46:26] <ianloic> trying to work out how much of the problem to bite off is tough. working out who you're building it for and what they actually want to do is hard.
  413. [21:46:34] <tantek> mkaply, we tend to call that applying evolutionary pressure to the market
  414. [21:46:39] <ianloic> the stuff flock is working on now is as far as I can tell pretty exciting
  415. [21:46:45] * Azath0th (n=beerf@h081217032068.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) Quit ()
  416. [21:46:52] <ianloic> but the damn thing needs to ship
  417. [21:47:01] <mkaply> yeah
  418. [21:47:20] <factoryjoe> yup
  419. [21:47:28] <ianloic> mozilla corp has been pretty active in trying to marginalize flock though, not that flock hasn't been doing well at that itself.
  420. [21:47:34] <factoryjoe> heh
  421. [21:47:49] <factoryjoe> my interactions with mozilla have always been positive
  422. [21:47:57] <factoryjoe> i mean, flock hired the whole netscape crew
  423. [21:48:03] <factoryjoe> talk about revolving cannabalism
  424. [21:48:10] <ianloic> not the whole crew
  425. [21:48:16] <factoryjoe> one browser shits out a crew and then they get eaten up by the other end again
  426. [21:48:22] <factoryjoe> talk about bubble innovation
  427. [21:48:28] <factoryjoe> no, not the whole crew
  428. [21:48:43] <factoryjoe> i still think getting game designers into the mix would be a good idea
  429. [21:48:50] <factoryjoe> throw in the world of warcraft folks
  430. [21:48:54] <factoryjoe> *then* we'll be talkin
  431. [21:49:14] * jcw9 (n=jonathan@WILLIAMSJ01.ADMIN.ED.NYU.EDU) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  432. [21:49:19] <pnhChris> as long as the wow folks can't skin it as part of the deal :P
  433. [21:49:55] <ianloic> we're doing some pretty rad skinning stuff in songbird, since half our team is from winamp
  434. [21:50:40] <factoryjoe> true dat
  435. [21:51:38] * pnhChris isn't sure why he cares.. will probably just continue using camino anyway
  436. [21:52:07] <factoryjoe> ;)
  437. [21:53:10] <ianloic> native browsers are nice
  438. [21:53:28] <ianloic> firefox has just enough more momentum to prevent escape velocity
  439. [21:53:29] <factoryjoe> btw i'm supposed to meet w/ rob friday AM
  440. [21:53:44] <ianloic> I even got sucked in after being a long-time epiphany user
  441. [21:53:51] <ianloic> factoryjoe, neat!
  442. [21:54:25] * mbradley (n=chatzill@dasasob.nokia.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  443. [21:55:09] <factoryjoe> oh yes, epiphany!
  444. [21:57:23] <ianloic> epiphany kicks ass
  445. [21:57:28] <ianloic> since it's really really simple
  446. [22:02:53] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) has joined #microformats
  447. [22:06:59] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-63f3367d81e84843) Quit ("Leaving")
  448. [22:19:44] * factoryjoe (n=factoryj@65.87.23.35) Quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host))
  449. [22:21:49] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  450. [22:41:58] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=15205 * AndyMabbett * (+177) I'm on a roll... W3C webmaster Jean-Guilhem Rouel now has an hCard!
  451. [22:42:27] * davecardwell (n=davecard@cpc2-grim9-0-0-cust125.nott.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  452. [22:42:27] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
  453. [22:43:04] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15206 * AndyMabbett * (+96) New Examples - Jean-Guilhem Rouel - W3C webmaster!
  454. [22:43:25] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=15207 * AndyMabbett * (+0) New Examples -
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  460. [23:57:07] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-164-86.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  461. [23:57:41] * bear42 is now known as bear

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