IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-06-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:27] <tantek> your home page is a directory index is that correct?
  2. [00:00:32] <tantek> (just making sure)
  3. [00:00:35] <unfo> tantek, yes.
  4. [00:01:02] <unfo> tantek, i guess the closest thing I have to an appropriate webpage is http://wikipedia.org/wiki/user:unforgettableid
  5. [00:01:04] <tantek> have you considered adding a README.txt ?
  6. [00:01:15] <tantek> or is tips.txt your version of README?
  7. [00:01:21] <unfo> tantek, i have an old webpage. http://jspiro.tripod.com. I'll eventually move it.
  8. [00:01:40] <unfo> i should get an 00README.txt or whatever apache will display at the top of the index
  9. [00:01:46] <unfo> i really have no current website.
  10. [00:02:16] <tantek> unfo, I like your multilicense statement on your wikipedia user page
  11. [00:02:22] <unfo> tantek, thank you.
  12. [00:02:39] <unfo> what do you think about those webpages I mentioned in general?
  13. [00:02:41] <tantek> I may borrow from it (presumably with your permission per the license ;) ) to write my own.
  14. [00:02:47] <unfo> tantek, it's a template
  15. [00:03:00] <unfo> tantek, edit this page, then scroll down to Templates Used on This Page
  16. [00:03:00] <tantek> do a lot of people use it?
  17. [00:03:10] <unfo> tantek, dunno. What Links Here can tell you.
  18. [00:03:22] <tantek> does What Links Here count template uses?
  19. [00:03:31] <unfo> yes, if you visit the template page first
  20. [00:03:44] <unfo> wikipedia has loads of data.
  21. [00:03:55] <unfo> anyone know about the German "Personendaten" thing?
  22. [00:04:20] <unfo> it means "Living Person Data". it's css display:none so it shows up in Lynx.
  23. [00:04:31] <unfo> it has IIRC first name, last name, and date of birth.
  24. [00:04:43] <unfo> they use it sometimes on English Wikipedia too.
  25. [00:04:56] <unfo> infoboxes could be excellent candidates for microformats.
  26. [00:05:10] <unfo> but then what? I am reminded of MS Office Smart Tags. Ugh.
  27. [00:05:16] <tantek> unfo, yes, i believe at least one of the infobox templates already has hCard in it!
  28. [00:05:30] <unfo> the wikipedia backend is GPLed.
  29. [00:05:43] <tantek> looks like quite a few people use the Template:Public domain release that you do: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Public_domain_release
  30. [00:05:48] <unfo> what firefox extensions can i get that will alert me to the presence of microformats whenever I see them?
  31. [00:06:05] <tantek> Operator
  32. [00:06:06] <bewest> operator
  33. [00:06:06] <unfo> tantek, a famous wikipedian, User:Ram-Man, advocated the use of multilicensing.
  34. [00:06:32] <unfo> tantek, Ram-Man wrote the first wikipedia bot. It turned CVS census data into textual articles.
  35. [00:06:33] <tantek> unfo, here is an example of a Wikipedia page that uses an infobox template that supports hCard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neal_Stephenson
  36. [00:07:05] <unfo> how can i tell there's a microformat there?
  37. [00:07:50] <tantek> from the web page, you can't, because it is not required, and Wikipedia has not yet chosen to make it a part of the user interface (which is perfectly fine). however, install Operator and Firefox and visit the page
  38. [00:07:59] <tantek> Operator *in* Firefox that is
  39. [00:08:13] <unfo> <robot>Please wait while I try that extension</robot>
  40. [00:08:17] <tantek> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4106
  41. [00:08:19] <unfo> *click*
  42. [00:08:32] <tantek> first Google result for the word "Operator" - amazing
  43. [00:09:41] <tantek> unfo, /wiki/irc-people is helpful for folks communicating in this channel, feel free to just link it to your user page
  44. [00:25:24] <mfbot> [[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=17692 * DnpM5r * (-13990)
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  49. [01:30:03] <unfo> i tried operator for 30 seconds and i'm not impressed yet. What websites should I try visiting?
  50. [01:48:39] <unfo> i tried operator for 30 seconds and i'm not impressed yet. What websites should I try visiting?
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  61. [02:35:45] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=17693 * Ku9Ac6 * (-2327)
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  63. [02:36:27] <DanC> any thoughts on representing flights using microformats? a flight is one event with two locations
  64. [02:36:35] <DanC> or... one long, skinny location
  65. [02:37:24] <unfo> DanC, how do the XML people represent flights?
  66. [02:37:29] <unfo> e.g. for EDI
  67. [02:38:30] <DanC> dunno
  68. [02:39:36] <DanC> there's a plain text format that seems to be used by SABRE. see TestData=... in http://dig.csail.mit.edu/2006/data4/flightCal.py
  69. [02:40:44] <DanC> and there are any number of general purpose ontologies for describing "starting point" and "ending point" and such
  70. [02:41:22] <DanC> hmm... I suppose a flight could be 2 events, each with a location
  71. [02:41:53] <DanC> that's not how I want it to show up in my calendar, usually, though
  72. [02:54:29] <mfbot> [[licensing-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-examples&diff=0&oldid=17694 * GuzHgl * (-3699)
  73. [02:57:55] <mfbot> [[hatom-hints]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints&diff=0&oldid=17695 * LrkYuo * (-4162)
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  75. [03:17:40] <DanC> hmm... googling around brings me back to http://microformats.org/wiki/directions-examples
  76. [03:19:02] <DanC> not much meat on the bones there
  77. [03:24:33] <tantek> DanC, your point about "how I want it to show up in my calendar" is I think a clue about the right methodology
  78. [03:24:45] <tantek> as in, defining the user scenario you are looking to solve
  79. [03:24:53] <tantek> scenarios plural even
  80. [03:25:16] <tantek> a flight does feel like a travel segment
  81. [03:25:18] <tantek> which might be an item in a directions format
  82. [03:25:30] <tantek> which could represent a series of flights as well
  83. [03:25:40] <tantek> or
  84. [03:25:45] <tantek> a series of flight + train etc.
  85. [03:25:50] <tantek> or even
  86. [03:25:57] <tantek> flight + train + walking
  87. [03:25:59] <DanC> the main user scenario I'm actually persuing (sp?) tonight is one of those "this year in flights" diagrams.
  88. [03:26:01] <tantek> say to a W3C meeting
  89. [03:26:21] <tantek> ah, infoporn, got it
  90. [03:26:26] <mfbot> [[hatom-hints]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints&diff=0&oldid=17696 * Tantek * (+4162) Reverted edit of LrkYuo, changed back to last version by ScottReynen
  91. [03:26:36] <DanC> I actually have pretty good hCalendar versions of my itiernaries; they don't have good geo info in them, though
  92. [03:26:37] <mfbot> [[licensing-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=licensing-examples&diff=0&oldid=17697 * Tantek * (+3699) Reverted edit of GuzHgl, changed back to last version by Tantek
  93. [03:26:43] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=17698 * Tantek * (+2327) Reverted edit of Ku9Ac6, changed back to last version by Tantek
  94. [03:26:49] <mfbot> [[xfolk-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-fr&diff=0&oldid=17699 * Tantek * (+13990) Reverted edit of DnpM5r, changed back to last version by Tantek
  95. [03:27:45] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:LrkYuo" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  96. [03:27:51] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:GuzHgl" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  97. [03:27:57] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Ku9Ac6" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  98. [03:27:58] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:DnpM5r" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  99. [03:28:36] <DanC> the directions microformat does seem like a good idea... though it's not clear that the effort doesn't all go into proprietary approaches due to market deman
  100. [03:28:58] <DanC> (is that enough negatives in one sentence?)
  101. [03:29:19] <tantek> that's the problem with excess negatives in a sentence, it sets the framing all wrong
  102. [03:29:36] <tantek> whereas if we word things positively, even if we only solve a small problem, we at least solve a problem
  103. [03:29:44] <tantek> which is a point to build from
  104. [03:29:57] <DanC> I was boggled the 1st time I printed some yahoo maps directions and there was no advertisement on the hardcopy.
  105. [03:30:07] <DanC> though I guess you can't click thru on a hardcopy
  106. [03:30:34] <DanC> ok, back to solving a problem...
  107. [03:30:40] <tantek> DanC, perhaps add a few of the scenarios you mentioned (e.g. year in flights), especially if you have current examples for them, to http://microformats.org/wiki/directions-examples
  108. [03:30:46] * unfo (n=j@CPE000d8824ef4e-CM0013718690da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  109. [03:30:47] <DanC> two locations on one hCard event is a no-no, yes?
  110. [03:30:54] <tantek> let's at least collect your ideas/behavior
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  112. [03:31:06] <tantek> so that we can encourage directions work to take it into account
  113. [03:31:23] <tantek> hCalendar only has one location property
  114. [03:31:31] <tantek> hmm... are you asking about singularity?
  115. [03:31:32] <DanC> and it only takes one valie?
  116. [03:31:43] <tantek> i'd have to check 2445
  117. [03:31:52] <tantek> i don't have that level of detail memorized
  118. [03:32:08] <tantek> though we should document that, just as Ryan and I did for hcard-singular-properties
  119. [03:32:11] * DanC is fairly sure it only takes one
  120. [03:32:32] * DanC looks for his year-in-flights bookmarks...
  121. [03:32:40] <tantek> eventprop = *(
  122. [03:32:40] <tantek> ; the following are optional,
  123. [03:32:40] <tantek> ; but MUST NOT occur more than once
  124. [03:32:40] <tantek> class / created / description / dtstart / geo /
  125. [03:32:40] <tantek> last-mod / location
  126. [03:32:45] <tantek> once
  127. [03:33:02] <tantek> from 4.6.1 Event Component
  128. [03:33:02] <tantek> of RFC 2445
  129. [03:33:52] <DanC> the year-in-flights meme on flickr seemed to be powered by the great circle mapper. http://gc.kls2.com/faq.html
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  131. [03:38:21] * DanC struggles to remember wiki markup for lists
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  133. [03:40:49] <mfbot> [[directions-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=directions-examples&diff=0&oldid=17700 * DanC * (+310) a couple year-in-flights examples
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  150. [06:42:55] <tantek> good evening
  151. [06:43:16] * tantek is writing the "turns 2" blog post
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  153. [07:11:39] <mfbot> [[rest/description]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/description&diff=0&oldid=17701 * UdrO2s * (-156)
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  155. [07:21:04] <mfbot> [[rest/description]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/description&diff=0&oldid=17702 * Tantek * (+156) Reverted edit of UdrO2s, changed back to last version by DrErnie
  156. [07:21:40] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:UdrO2s" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
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  167. [08:28:22] <mfbot> [[hcard-parsing-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing-fr&diff=0&oldid=17703 * FosBri * (-22753)
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  169. [08:38:57] <mfbot> [[hcard-parsing-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing-fr&diff=0&oldid=17704 * Tantek * (+22753) Reverted edit of FosBri, changed back to last version by Tantek
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  181. [10:42:11] <mfbot> [[suggested-reading]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=suggested-reading&diff=0&oldid=17705 * OdbEr8 * (-894)
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  201. [13:52:24] <mfbot> [[xfolk-scuttle]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-scuttle&diff=0&oldid=17706 * Np9I44 * (-2724)
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  204. [14:11:49] <mfbot> [[xfolk-scuttle]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-scuttle&diff=0&oldid=17707 * Tantek * (+2724) Reverted edit of Np9I44, changed back to last version by RyanKing
  205. [14:12:30] <mfbot> [[suggested-reading]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=suggested-reading&diff=0&oldid=17708 * Tantek * (+894) Reverted edit of OdbEr8, changed back to last version by Tantek
  206. [14:12:41] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:OdbEr8" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  207. [14:12:47] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Np9I44" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  208. [14:13:03] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:FosBri" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  209. [14:13:16] <tantek> ...
  210. [14:13:45] <tantek> There's just something awesome about the fact that the first two comments on the microformats.org turns 2 post are in Danish and Portuguese (I think).
  211. [14:20:53] <trovster> Can't believe it's two years... I remember being in here when you were posting about ONE year!
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  218. [14:57:22] <mfbot> [[hatom-hints]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints&diff=0&oldid=17709 * GvtKs6 * (-4162)
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  223. [15:26:52] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=17710 * Kevin * (+96) New Examples -
  224. [15:27:03] <mfbot> [[hatom-hints]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-hints&diff=0&oldid=17711 * Tantek * (+4162) Reverted edit of GvtKs6, changed back to last version by Tantek
  225. [15:28:45] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  226. [15:29:04] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:GvtKs6" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
  227. [15:32:09] * vant (n=vant@p2026-ipbf906marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  228. [15:33:11] * DanWrong (n=DanWrong@87.114.158.128.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit ("A B C ya and I wouldn't want to be ya")
  229. [15:37:24] <mfbot> [[xfolk-scuttle]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-scuttle&diff=0&oldid=17712 * CxtU75 * (-2724)
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  232. [16:45:42] <mfbot> [[xfolk-scuttle]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-scuttle&diff=0&oldid=17713 * Tantek * (+2724) Reverted edit of CxtU75, changed back to last version by Tantek
  233. [16:45:58] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:CxtU75" with an expiry time of infinite: damage/spam
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  246. [17:33:11] * dzhus (n=user@89-178-180-159.broadband.corbina.ru) has joined #microformats
  247. [17:33:31] <dzhus> http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/S5StDHsOtha65okbDIpHH2-
  248. [17:41:07] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-235-146.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
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  255. [18:19:02] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@last.fm/staff/wurstkind) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
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  264. [19:45:33] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=17714 * SarahWorsham * (+46)
  265. [19:53:58] * danja_ (n=danja@host237-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  266. [20:03:53] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=17715 * AndyMabbett * (+221) Geo - Great Circle Mapper
  267. [20:06:07] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-58-136.w82-124.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  270. [20:11:24] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=17716 * AndyMabbett * (-9252) moving hCard
  271. [20:12:23] * izo (n=izo@boi59-4-82-240-113-183.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
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  273. [20:13:50] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=17717 * AndyMabbett * (-2280) hCard Successes - moving
  274. [20:14:15] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=17718 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Successes -
  275. [20:14:31] <mfbot> [[hcard-advocacy]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-advocacy * AndyMabbett * (+11629) moved to sub-divide long page
  276. [20:16:02] <mfbot> [[Template:hcard-related-pages]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:hcard-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=17719 * AndyMabbett * (+0) dab
  277. [20:17:04] <mfbot> [[hcard-advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-advocacy&diff=0&oldid=17720 * AndyMabbett * (-125) Successes - rm old markers
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  282. [20:28:21] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@last.fm/staff/wurstkind) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
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  286. [20:58:35] <bewest> will there be a microformats turns 2 party?
  287. [20:58:48] <bewest> Derrick says he really liked the micro desserts from last year
  288. [21:01:19] * DerrickPallas (n=chatzill@gblx203-95.alexa.com) has joined #microformats
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  292. [21:25:45] <DerrickPallas> @bewest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism
  293. [21:29:30] * DerrickPallas (n=chatzill@gblx203-95.alexa.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  313. [23:22:29] * sreynen (n=sreynen@205.169.187.2) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  314. [23:31:41] <mfbot> [[shirts]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/shirts * Tantek * (+42)
  315. [23:32:57] <mfbot> [[shirt]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/shirt * Tantek * (+42)
  316. [23:33:28] <mfbot> [[tshirt]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/tshirt * Tantek * (+42)
  317. [23:33:44] <mfbot> [[tshirts]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/tshirts * Tantek * (+42)
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  320. [23:38:30] <mfbot> [[hresume-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-issues&diff=0&oldid=17721 * Steve Ganz * (+424) Issues - Adding rel-tag on 'skills' issue
  321. [23:54:47] * tantek (n=tantek@m010f36d0.tmodns.net) Quit ()

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.