IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:02:48] * fuzzyBSc (n=fuzzy@c210-49-73-138.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  2. [00:19:52] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2470P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("bye")
  3. [00:38:46] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@h-68-164-81-209.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  4. [00:42:18] * Tantek (n=Tantek@pool-71-104-248-219.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit ("via the nearest exit")
  5. [00:53:04] * t1m (n=t1m@pool-151-199-43-220.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  6. [00:53:05] <jibot> t1m is http://tim.textdriven.com/
  7. [00:55:49] <mfbot> [[process]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=3666 * Heel1983 * (+4646)
  8. [00:55:50] <mfbot> [[hbib]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hbib * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  9. [00:55:56] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=3667 * Heel1983 * (+4796)
  10. [00:56:02] <mfbot> [[Talk:hcard]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hcard * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  11. [00:56:08] <mfbot> [[rel-license]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-license&diff=0&oldid=3668 * Heel1983 * (+4756)
  12. [00:56:24] <mfbot> [[Talk:geo]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:geo * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  13. [00:56:30] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview-issues * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  14. [00:56:36] <mfbot> [[Talk:rel-enclosure]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rel-enclosure * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  15. [00:56:47] <mfbot> [[Talk:relpayment-research]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:relpayment-research * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  16. [00:56:48] <mfbot> [[Talk:adr]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:adr * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  17. [00:56:49] <mfbot> [[Talk:rel-nofollow]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rel-nofollow * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  18. [00:56:55] <mfbot> [[Talk:implementations]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:implementations * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  19. [00:56:56] <mfbot> [[rel-home-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-home-issues * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  20. [00:57:02] <mfbot> [[rel-bookmark]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-bookmark * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  21. [00:57:03] <mfbot> [[Talk:xfolk]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:xfolk * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  22. [00:57:09] <mfbot> [[Talk:class-design-pattern]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:class-design-pattern * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  23. [00:57:10] <mfbot> [[RobertBachmann]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/RobertBachmann * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  24. [00:57:11] <mfbot> [[Talk:rel-design-pattern]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rel-design-pattern * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  25. [00:57:12] <mfbot> [[Talk:datetime-design-pattern]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:datetime-design-pattern * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  26. [00:57:28] <mfbot> [[Talk:chat-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:chat-examples * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  27. [00:57:29] <mfbot> [[Talk:examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:examples * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  28. [00:57:35] <mfbot> [[Talk:comments-formats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:comments-formats * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  29. [00:57:36] <mfbot> [[Talk:cite]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:cite * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  30. [00:57:37] <mfbot> [[Talk:rest/forms-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rest/forms-examples * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  31. [00:57:38] <mfbot> [[Talk:blog-description-format]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:blog-description-format * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  32. [00:57:49] <mfbot> [[User:ChristopherA]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:ChristopherA * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  33. [00:57:55] <mfbot> [[Talk:table-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:table-examples * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  34. [00:58:02] <mfbot> [[Talk:search-results-example]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:search-results-example * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  35. [00:58:02] <mfbot> [[Talk:tagspeak-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:tagspeak-examples * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  36. [00:58:08] <mfbot> [[Talk:transit-table-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:transit-table-examples * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  37. [00:58:14] <mfbot> [[Talk:xmdp-faq]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:xmdp-faq * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  38. [00:58:15] <mfbot> [[Talk:zen-garden]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:zen-garden * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  39. [00:58:22] <mfbot> [[Talk:icalendar-implementations]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:icalendar-implementations * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  40. [00:58:27] <mfbot> [[Talk:parsing-microformats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:parsing-microformats * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  41. [00:58:38] <mfbot> [[Talk:why-are-content-standards-hard]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:why-are-content-standards-hard * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  42. [00:58:39] <mfbot> [[Talk:demo]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:demo * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  43. [00:58:45] <mfbot> [[Talk:faqs-for-rdf]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:faqs-for-rdf * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  44. [00:58:46] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-profile]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-profile * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  45. [00:58:57] <mfbot> [[xfn-実装]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-%E5%AE%9F%E8%A3%85 * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  46. [00:59:03] <mfbot> [[User talk:DavidJanes]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:DavidJanes * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  47. [00:59:04] <mfbot> [[Microformats talk:General disclaimer]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Microformats_talk:General_disclaimer * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  48. [00:59:20] <mfbot> [[Help talk:Contents]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Help_talk:Contents * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  49. [00:59:21] <mburns> well, that is annoying
  50. [00:59:41] <mfbot> [[Talk:Main Page]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page * Heel1983 * (+4596)
  51. [01:19:16] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  52. [01:45:56] * t1m (n=t1m@pool-151-199-43-220.bos.east.verizon.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  53. [02:07:38] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  54. [02:07:39] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  55. [02:07:41] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  56. [02:15:09] <Atamido> Is there any way to undo every change by the spam bot at once?
  57. [02:15:19] * Atamido (n=atamido@user-0ccsqt9.cable.mindspring.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.5/undefined]")
  58. [02:16:42] <kingryan> don't think so
  59. [02:17:19] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:Heel1983" with an expiry time of 5000 hours: spammer
  60. [02:17:23] * Tantek (n=Tantek@pool-71-104-248-219.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  61. [02:18:16] <mfbot> [[process]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=3669 * RyanKing * (-4646) Reverted edit of Heel1983, changed back to last version by Ragdoll
  62. [02:18:27] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "hbib": spam
  63. [02:18:58] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=3670 * RyanKing * (-4796) Reverted edit of Heel1983, changed back to last version by RyanKing
  64. [02:19:04] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:hcard": spam
  65. [02:19:10] <mfbot> [[rel-license]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-license&diff=0&oldid=3671 * RyanKing * (-4756) Reverted edit of Heel1983, changed back to last version by RyanKing
  66. [02:19:16] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:geo": spam
  67. [02:19:22] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "hreview-issues": spam
  68. [02:19:28] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:rel-enclosure": spam
  69. [02:19:34] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:relpayment-research": spam
  70. [02:19:40] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:adr": spam
  71. [02:21:10] <Tantek> hey Ryan, are you listening to the channel
  72. [02:21:19] <kingryan> yeah
  73. [02:21:38] <Tantek> we used to have content on Main_Page:Talk
  74. [02:21:46] <Tantek> the only Talk page that did
  75. [02:21:53] <kingryan> yeah not sure what happened there
  76. [02:22:06] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:rel-nofollow": spam
  77. [02:22:12] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:implementations": spam
  78. [02:22:35] <Tantek> ah, looks like you deleted it Dec 25
  79. [02:22:40] <Tantek> how grinch-like! :p
  80. [02:22:46] <kingryan> it appears I deleted it
  81. [02:23:01] <kingryan> yeah, midnight on chrismas I was spam-fighting
  82. [02:23:08] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) restored "Talk:Main Page"
  83. [02:24:14] <kingryan> ok I "restored" them, but they seem to have disappeared
  84. [02:24:29] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "rel-home-issues": spam
  85. [02:24:35] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "rel-bookmark": spam
  86. [02:24:41] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:xfolk": spam
  87. [02:24:47] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:class-design-pattern": spam
  88. [02:24:48] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "RobertBachmann": spam
  89. [02:24:54] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:rel-design-pattern": spam
  90. [02:24:55] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:datetime-design-pattern": spam
  91. [02:25:01] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:chat-examples": spam
  92. [02:25:02] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:examples": spam
  93. [02:25:08] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:comments-formats": spam
  94. [02:25:09] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:cite": spam
  95. [02:25:15] <Tantek> whoa, "there is no edit history"!
  96. [02:25:15] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:rest/forms-examples": spam
  97. [02:25:20] <kingryan> yeah
  98. [02:25:21] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:blog-description-format": spam
  99. [02:25:33] <kingryan> I'll look in the db to see if its still there
  100. [02:25:37] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "User:ChristopherA": spam
  101. [02:25:43] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:table-examples": spam
  102. [02:25:49] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:search-results-example": spam
  103. [02:25:50] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:tagspeak-examples": spam
  104. [02:25:56] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:transit-table-examples": spam
  105. [02:26:02] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:xmdp-faq": spam
  106. [02:26:03] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:zen-garden": spam
  107. [02:26:09] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:icalendar-implementations": spam
  108. [02:26:15] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:parsing-microformats": spam
  109. [02:26:16] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:Main Page": spam
  110. [02:26:22] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:why-are-content-standards-hard": spam
  111. [02:26:23] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:demo": spam
  112. [02:26:29] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:faqs-for-rdf": spam
  113. [02:26:30] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "hcalendar-profile": spam
  114. [02:26:36] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "xfn-実装": spam
  115. [02:26:37] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "User talk:DavidJanes": spam
  116. [02:26:43] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Microformats talk:General disclaimer": spam
  117. [02:26:44] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Help talk:Contents": spam
  118. [02:26:55] <Tantek> very odd, i had to delete the page to make the history show back up
  119. [02:27:12] <kingryan> weird
  120. [02:27:30] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) restored "Talk:Main Page": 1 revisions restored
  121. [02:27:49] <Tantek> ah, the trick is that you have to [x] check the version you want restored
  122. [02:28:05] <Tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page looks good to me now, someone else want to verify?
  123. [02:28:25] <kingryan> looks good to me
  124. [02:28:52] <Tantek> cool
  125. [02:28:59] * Tantek realizes he took care of a few things on that list.
  126. [02:30:56] <mfbot> [[Talk:Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=3831 * Tantek * (+19) attention has been contributed, and is being processed.
  127. [02:31:08] <Tantek> thanks for cleaning the spam Ryan!
  128. [02:34:42] <kingryan> on another subject, tantek have you read Gödel, Escher, Bach?
  129. [02:43:40] <Tantek> only a few pages here and there
  130. [02:43:54] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@adsl-71-139-210-182.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  131. [02:43:55] <Tantek> did you finish it over the holidays?
  132. [02:44:00] <kingryan> no, started it
  133. [02:44:01] <kingryan> :D
  134. [02:44:33] <kingryan> anyway, there's a good description of "formal systems" in there, which was for me, a review, but it got me thinking about naming in mf's
  135. [02:44:35] <Tantek> so what you're saying is that your reading of it is "incomplete" ;)
  136. [02:44:40] <kingryan> yes
  137. [02:46:29] <kingryan> the author, trying to explain formals systems to people who may not have a university-level science/math education painstakingly emphasizes that isomorphisms used to understand formal systems should only be used to understand the formal system to the point that they're useful and are truly isomorphic
  138. [02:46:56] <Tantek> heh
  139. [02:48:08] <kingryan> and I think we have this problem with data formats and software architecture
  140. [02:48:26] <kingryan> which is all really data-design
  141. [02:48:38] <Tantek> of course, the microformats approach dictates that the formal system be based on existing beahvior, rather than a theoretical system
  142. [02:48:48] <Tantek> which is the problem with the GEB approach
  143. [02:48:51] <kingryan> which is attempt to create an isomorphic transformation from the real-world to the computer world
  144. [02:49:03] <kingryan> right
  145. [02:49:07] <kingryan> but the real world changes
  146. [02:49:10] <Tantek> actually, from real-world behavior on computers
  147. [02:49:15] <Tantek> not just "real-world"
  148. [02:49:16] <kingryan> yeah
  149. [02:49:18] <Tantek> that would be much more difficult
  150. [02:49:44] <kingryan> yeah
  151. [02:50:05] <kingryan> but I just think it'd be useful to remember that we're dealing with two different senses of the word "semantic"
  152. [02:50:26] <kingryan> the semantics of the real computer world and formal data semantics
  153. [02:50:38] <kingryan> which, in the case of mf's are nearly the same
  154. [02:50:48] <kingryan> we've merged the two semantics
  155. [02:51:19] <Tantek> the microformats assertion is that formal data semantics are only useful in that they represent real world semantics
  156. [02:51:36] <kingryan> yeah
  157. [02:51:41] <Tantek> thus formal data semantics in isolation have no place in microformats (though they do in other standards efforts)
  158. [02:51:45] <kingryan> which is, I think, a unique assertion
  159. [02:51:53] <mfbot> [[cite]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=cite&diff=0&oldid=3832 * RCanine * (+270) Questions -
  160. [02:51:54] <kingryan> innovation, even
  161. [02:53:23] <Tantek> yes
  162. [02:54:49] <Tantek> historically, formats designers have begun with formal data semantics and later attempted to map them onto the real world, or make people map themselves into the formal data semantics
  163. [02:55:21] * Tantek (n=Tantek@pool-71-104-248-219.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  164. [03:27:23] * Tantek (n=Tantek@pool-71-104-248-219.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  165. [04:22:49] * t1m (n=t1m@pool-151-199-30-243.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  166. [04:22:50] <jibot> t1m is http://tim.textdriven.com/
  167. [05:32:53] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20051010]")
  168. [06:00:04] * Atamido (n=atamido@user-0ccsqt9.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  169. [06:00:05] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
  170. [06:52:11] * Tantek (n=Tantek@pool-71-104-248-219.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  171. [07:13:19] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  172. [07:13:19] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  173. [07:41:37] * t1m (n=t1m@pool-151-199-30-243.bos.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  174. [08:22:48] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  175. [08:29:49] * t1m (n=t1m@pool-151-199-30-243.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  176. [08:29:50] <jibot> t1m is http://tim.textdriven.com/
  177. [08:37:44] * Frederic is now known as neuro_work
  178. [10:10:01] <mfbot> [[xoxo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo&diff=0&oldid=3833 * Singpolyma * (-25) Discussions -
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  182. [11:47:44] <jibot> fuzzyBSc is Benjamin Carlyle, http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/
  183. [11:52:59] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  184. [11:52:59] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  185. [13:46:39] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  186. [13:46:40] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
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  191. [17:27:41] <megaman> is it allowed to add own classes / ids to an applied microformat that are individual to the site ?
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  193. [17:29:43] <megaman> e.g. <div id="contact" class="vcard contact"> [....] </div> or something :)
  194. [17:31:06] <_fil_> yes of course
  195. [17:31:44] <megaman> ok, just wanted to be sure :)
  196. [17:32:59] <megaman> im discussing (inspired by microformats) good markup for tabs that can dynamically get changed via css/js
  197. [17:35:49] <bergie> hey, anybody know a "hTodo" spec yet?
  198. [17:38:21] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  199. [17:38:21] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
  200. [17:47:33] <fuzzyBSc> bergie: I haven't heard of one, however all of the other rfc2445 components seem to be making their way into uf land... If you have a use case and plenty of examples you might consider starting one off.
  201. [17:49:07] <bergie> fuzzyBSc: well, I'm just writing spec for Midgard's new task list component
  202. [17:49:57] <bergie> in hCalendar page there is mention that "Policy Aware Web (PAW) Project Meeting (http://www.policyawareweb.org/2005/ftf2/paw-mtg) uses hCalendar to record date-related decisions, and uses a vtodo microformat to record action items."
  203. [17:59:01] <fuzzyBSc> bergie: Hrmm... ok then. I'm suspicious that hCalendar theoretically includes vtodo, then. See hcalendar-examples and hcalendar-brainstorming for more mentions.
  204. [17:59:17] <bergie> ok, I'll keep looking
  205. [18:03:38] * neuro_work is now known as Frederic
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  207. [18:06:29] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/
  208. [18:07:05] <fuzzyBSc> I also seem to rember tantek mentioning something about vjournal already theoretically being part of hCalendar, and that was a reason for hAtom to take very seriously exactly how the two relate. I have to admit I wasn't clear enough about what was going on to take all of that in at the time, though. I haven't found the exact quote to work from, either.
  209. [18:15:06] <bergie> vJournal is interesting... I wonder if any clients actually support that
  210. [18:15:47] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@c-69-181-81-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  211. [18:15:48] <jibot> factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp and Rhyzomatic and is working towards open source world domination
  212. [18:21:04] * Tantek (n=Tantek@pool-71-104-248-219.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  213. [18:21:07] <fuzzyBSc> bergie: I don't know :) I don't think it has ever been used for blogging, but the two concepts of vjournal and atom are connected.
  214. [18:21:27] <fuzzyBSc> Oh tantek :)
  215. [18:21:27] <fuzzyBSc> I just sent you an email.
  216. [18:21:41] <fuzzyBSc> I won't be up much longer, though.
  217. [18:21:52] <Tantek> greetings
  218. [18:21:58] <bergie> fuzzyBsc: yep, vJournal is not that necessary as sufficient blog formats exists. But for syndicating meeting notes maybe...
  219. [18:22:12] <bergie> fuzzyBsd: anyway, for my current case vTodo is more relevant
  220. [18:23:09] <fuzzyBSc> tantek: Is it correct to say that hCalendar includes vtodo, so a todo microformat currently exists?
  221. [18:23:23] <Tantek> yes, though no one has tried it yet
  222. [18:23:35] <Tantek> AFAIK
  223. [18:23:42] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  224. [18:23:42] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  225. [18:25:07] <fuzzyBSc> tantek: To summarise my email, is "<span class="description"><span class="summary">Short Title</span> to a longer article</span>" from hcalendar-brainstorming a valid nesting? Does the answer to that question or any implementation experience bourne out of the question have any impact on hAtom's opacity rules?
  226. [18:25:55] <bergie> Tantek: OK, I could experiment a bit with "hTodo" in our task manager and post some notes
  227. [18:26:06] <bergie> won't happen before next week though
  228. [18:31:02] <fuzzyBSc> bergie: Yeah, that PAW link does make minimal use of vtodo elements. A log bot appears to mark up discussion thusly when it sees an ACTION: marker at the beginning of text.
  229. [18:33:54] <fuzzyBSc> Anyway, I must sleep. Have fun all.
  230. [18:34:20] * fuzzyBSc (n=fuzzy@c210-49-73-138.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  231. [18:36:46] <Tantek> fuzzy, re: nesting, yes, that's valid, and folks have done that and X2V and Technorati's Events Feed Service support that
  232. [18:40:33] <Tantek> bergie, I look forward to the results from your experiments
  233. [18:40:48] <Tantek> keep in touch, and let me know if you run into any issues
  234. [18:41:04] <bergie> sure :-)
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  240. [19:36:57] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=3834 * Tantek * (+1094) hAtom and other microformats
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  244. [19:44:19] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  245. [19:47:08] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=3835 * Tantek * (+817) hAtom and hReview - an example of overlay
  246. [19:51:54] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3836 * Tantek * (+17) Discussion Participants -
  247. [19:53:00] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3837 * Tantek * (+15) Anti-Goals for hAtom -
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  251. [20:05:22] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3838 * Tantek * (+77) summary issues and alternatives
  252. [20:12:43] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3839 * Tantek * (+35) Date and time names alternatives
  253. [21:05:00] <mfbot> [[naming-principles]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/naming-principles * Tantek * (+4842) draft first version, including content from other sources and discussions
  254. [21:05:41] <mfbot> [[naming-principles]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-principles&diff=0&oldid=3840 * Tantek * (-2) Naming Principles -
  255. [21:10:27] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3841 * Tantek * (+14) indicate current preference with +1 Tantek
  256. [21:11:43] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3842 * Tantek * (+45) Why content? -
  257. [21:12:09] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3843 * Tantek * (+1) Why content? -
  258. [21:13:50] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3844 * Tantek * (+203) hCards -
  259. [21:15:02] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3845 * Tantek * (+43) See Also -
  260. [21:15:37] <Tantek> ok, phew
  261. [21:16:02] <Tantek> Added a bunch of feedback/proposals/opinions to hAtom-issues, if you are working on hAtom, please take a look.
  262. [21:16:35] <Tantek> Also, if you are an editor working on a microformat spec, *please* take a look at the new naming-principles page and help me remember what I've forgotten. :)
  263. [21:16:43] <Tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/naming-principles
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  275. [23:34:51] <mfbot> [[naming-principles]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-principles&diff=0&oldid=3846 * Kevin Marks * (-1) Examples of Following the Naming Principles - fix url typo

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