IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:04:00] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4506 * PhilWilson * (+34) update status of University of Bath hCard error
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  3. [00:29:05] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  8. [01:44:39] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  29. [04:36:34] <jibot> rav- is Serdar Kilic and blogging at http://weblog.kilic.net/
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  35. [09:13:26] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  37. [10:02:12] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4507 * Tantek * (-4)
  38. [10:03:13] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4508 * Tantek * (+13)
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  41. [10:54:06] <mfbot> [[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=4509 * Tantek * (+117)
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  60. [18:33:30] <KevinMarks> does the hCal parser reject dates without timezones?
  61. [18:37:24] <KevinMarks> the ORG feed isn't working: http://feeds.technorati.com/events/openrightsgroup.org
  62. [18:39:25] <Tantek> Kevin, try X2V on Suda's site, it provies more warnings/debugging
  63. [18:39:47] <Tantek> dates without timezones are ok in the spec - they're "floating/relative" events
  64. [18:39:57] <Tantek> that is, they occur on the same date, regardless of your timezone
  65. [18:40:20] <Tantek> for things like: New Year's Day happens on the same "local" date everywhere
  66. [18:40:50] <Tantek> (and typically how people celebrate birthdays and anniversaries too)
  67. [18:47:51] <KevinMarks> but to say GMT she needs -0000 or is Z ok?
  68. [18:50:58] <KevinMarks> that generates soemthing, but it doesn't show in ical
  69. [18:53:20] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=4510 * Tantek * (+74)
  70. [18:59:41] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=4511 * Tantek * (+486)
  71. [19:00:44] <Tantek> to say GMT explicitly yes you should use Z
  72. [19:00:51] <Tantek> but remember that Z doesn't do DST
  73. [19:02:51] <KevinMarks> are seconds required?
  74. [19:03:37] <KevinMarks> hm
  75. [19:03:58] <KevinMarks> so suw's ones come through as DTSTART:20060207T1800
  76. [19:04:38] <KevinMarks> if I append 2 extar zeros, ical shows them
  77. [19:04:47] <KevinMarks> if I append 2 extar zeros, ical shows them in my time
  78. [19:04:58] <KevinMarks> if I append 2 zeros and Z it shows them in her time
  79. [19:07:15] <Tantek> hmm... that sounds like possibly an X2V bug. What's the HTML markup you're feeding it?
  80. [19:07:25] <Tantek> URL?
  81. [19:11:26] <KevinMarks> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/
  82. [19:11:41] <KevinMarks> the dates have no TZ
  83. [19:12:55] <Tantek> ah
  84. [19:13:00] <Tantek> *dates* can have no TZ
  85. [19:13:45] <Tantek> and so can datetimes as well, but that means that the event is always localized to whatever time zone you're in
  86. [19:14:07] <Tantek> if you want it to happen at a precise time, you MUST specify a timezone
  87. [19:14:42] <Tantek> localized as in, setting your alarm to wake you up at 7am - that 7am is local to whatever timezone you're in.
  88. [19:15:24] <KevinMarks> suw used Ryan's generator afaik, does it have a GMT bug?
  89. [19:16:39] <Tantek> nope, works fine for me
  90. [19:16:43] <Tantek> http://microformats.org/code/hcalendar/creator
  91. [19:17:07] <Tantek> if you pick "+0 GMT/UTC" from the popup, it puts "Z" at the end of the datetimes
  92. [19:18:30] <KevinMarks> well, x2v is nto adding the trailing 00 that iCal on the mac wants
  93. [19:19:45] <KevinMarks> not for a Z
  94. [19:19:56] <KevinMarks> but it does for a -0000
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  96. [19:24:01] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda and brian suda of X2V fame
  97. [19:26:48] <mfbot> [[mflogbot/]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot/ * Brian * (+91)
  98. [19:28:03] <KevinMarks> hi brian
  99. [19:28:15] <KevinMarks> found an x2v problem
  100. [19:28:36] <KevinMarks> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/ has dates with no TZ on
  101. [19:28:55] <briansuda> i am just reading through the logs, what exactly is the problem?
  102. [19:29:19] <KevinMarks> x2v passes them through without appending the 00 seconds, so iCal ignores them
  103. [19:29:44] <KevinMarks> if I append a Z, it does the same thing
  104. [19:30:29] <briansuda> OK, let me look into this, Date-Time normalization is a pain in a string-based template language like XSLT
  105. [19:36:48] <Tantek> yes, X2V should be appending the 00 seconds if necessary
  106. [19:37:14] <briansuda> i think i have found the problem, i testing now
  107. [19:40:17] <KevinMarks> appending -0000 made it work
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  109. [19:44:01] <jibot> tara is Miss HorsePigCow (http://www.horsepigcow.com/) and the alter-ego of missrogue
  110. [19:44:23] <briansuda> just adding -0000 is no longer a valid iCal date, i am pretty sure it MUST be UTC
  111. [19:44:40] <Tantek> right briansuda, but it should be ok in hCalendar
  112. [19:44:47] <Tantek> since we made the decision to convert those in X2V
  113. [19:44:49] <Tantek> for ease of authoring
  114. [19:45:29] <briansuda> Yes, i thought he was refering to adding it to the ics file
  115. [19:45:33] <Tantek> hCalendar should explicitly allow +0000 or -0000 (or even +00:00 or -00:00)
  116. [19:45:54] <KevinMarks> http://homepage.mac.com/kevinmarks/orgcal.html has the same ones with slight variations
  117. [19:45:57] <Tantek> i always assume people mean adding it to the HTML
  118. [19:46:12] * Tantek takes off for brunch.
  119. [19:46:21] <briansuda> i managed to get the padding working, it (was)/is in some of the templates, so it probably padded it correctly when it found a TZ of +/-0000
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  121. [19:47:32] <briansuda> The problem with the Padding at the moment is that it is NOT smart, it will always pad to the end of the string. so 130 (which might be 1:30 or 13:30) will be padded to 130000 which is wrong
  122. [19:48:06] <briansuda> 1:30pm => 13:30
  123. [19:54:46] <KevinMarks> well, 0130 vis 1300
  124. [19:56:50] <briansuda> i'm just thinking that if someone encodes there date-time without leading zeros, X2V will pad it on the wrong end
  125. [19:57:16] <KevinMarks> well, they should see that
  126. [19:57:50] <KevinMarks> the problem with this one is that it made somethign iCal ignored, so it is hard to debug
  127. [19:58:11] <KevinMarks> if it made 130am instead of pm, that would clue me in
  128. [19:59:21] <briansuda> true, with the padding, you still get valid .ics file, iCal will just have your times all out of wack
  129. [19:59:52] <KevinMarks> I think thats acceptable
  130. [20:00:23] <briansuda> well, actually, i'm not sure what will happen when i pad 2006-01-01T9:30 to 2006-01-01T93:00:00?
  131. [20:01:15] <briansuda> i'm not going to worry too much, we can deal with these on a case-by-case basis
  132. [20:03:14] <KevinMarks> do you have an automated test suite set up?
  133. [20:04:06] <briansuda> not yet, i do have a file i test against, but no automated version. Along time ago there was going to be an SVN repository for this, i was going ot create test cases then.
  134. [20:04:28] <KevinMarks> yes, we need to get that up, it's annoying me re xoxo too
  135. [20:05:05] <KevinMarks> the model feedparse uses is good - each example says what it should map to
  136. [20:05:09] <briansuda> i also think it will be easier for you guys to fold in any changes to the feeds.technorti site if it is in X2V
  137. [20:05:52] <KevinMarks> then when you find a bug, you add the test cases for it, then you can run the whole lot and make sure you didn't break anything
  138. [20:06:01] <briansuda> yeah, i know Mark Pilgrim has a test suite for his hCard Greasemonkey scripts - i'm not it has been updated
  139. [20:06:58] <briansuda> http://diveintomark.org/projects/greasemonkey/hcard/tests/
  140. [20:07:25] <KevinMarks> he's added hCal to feedparser now too
  141. [20:08:53] <briansuda> i've seen that. it is great to see, but i know there are still several outstanding issues with hCal yet. Namely, things like SENTTO: ATTENDEE: etc. they are probably not difficult to map-out, it is just that we haven't sat down to do it yet.
  142. [20:09:28] <briansuda> and some of the RRULE stuff (which might get dropped)
  143. [20:10:31] <KevinMarks> BTW Brian, you might find the events in that calendar interesting
  144. [20:10:40] <KevinMarks> as they're in London
  145. [20:12:02] <briansuda> yeah, i wish i could attend, but i'm back in the USA at the moment.
  146. [20:12:22] <KevinMarks> ah
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  149. [20:20:05] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  151. [20:21:36] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  156. [23:07:20] <jibot> tara is Miss HorsePigCow (http://www.horsepigcow.com/) and the alter-ego of missrogue
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  164. [23:36:34] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
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