IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-03-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:03] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=5641 * Brian * (+108) things to discuss -
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  3. [00:16:43] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
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  17. [01:40:23] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  18. [01:40:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  28. [02:10:42] <jibot> limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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  32. [02:43:13] * tantek thinking of going to CTTP for a bit.
  33. [02:53:36] <KevinMarks> cttp?
  34. [02:56:09] <KevinMarks> does that involve food?
  35. [02:56:55] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  36. [03:00:31] <tantek> yes
  37. [03:01:45] <KevinMarks> what does CTTP stand for?
  38. [03:02:03] <tantek> ?def cttp
  39. [03:02:03] <jibot> Nobody has defined cttp yet
  40. [03:02:12] <tantek> ?def cttp is Coffee To The People
  41. [03:02:12] <jibot> cttp is Coffee To The People
  42. [03:02:16] <tantek> ?def CTTP
  43. [03:02:16] <jibot> CTTP is Coffee To The People
  44. [03:04:06] * TantekC (n=Tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
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  47. [03:09:06] * TantekC (n=Tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("via the nearest exit")
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  50. [03:18:14] * limbo_ (n=me@138.202.171.148) Quit ("> home, stuff")
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  60. [04:29:17] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-65-117.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  61. [04:29:17] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  62. [04:43:48] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  63. [04:56:12] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  64. [04:56:12] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  65. [05:01:21] <Frederic> morning
  66. [05:01:35] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  67. [05:08:58] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-meetup]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-meetup&diff=0&oldid=5642 * ZenPsycho * (+89) things to discuss -
  68. [05:48:16] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  69. [05:48:16] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  81. [07:57:08] <kirai> /join #joito
  82. [07:57:22] <kirai> /join #joiito
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  95. [10:18:26] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  96. [10:43:44] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-65-117.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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  102. [13:13:19] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  106. [14:28:59] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5643 * Jon Tan * (+313) Implementations -
  107. [14:29:30] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5644 * Jon Tan * (-1) Implementations -
  108. [14:44:12] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=5645 * Jon Tan * (+165) Implementations -
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  110. [14:45:03] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  111. [14:49:56] <jonnay> hi Dimitri
  112. [15:00:56] <dglazkov> hey!
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  119. [15:51:35] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  129. [16:43:16] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  130. [16:53:41] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
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  132. [17:13:46] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  133. [17:25:06] * bretonslivka (n=bretonsl@c-67-190-186-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  134. [17:27:27] <DanC> irony... no machine-readable calendar info on http://www.calconnect.org/iopmay2006.html
  135. [17:31:35] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  136. [17:52:03] <mfbot> [[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=5646 * DrErnie * (+159) Usage - clarify order independence
  137. [17:53:08] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
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  142. [18:32:12] * DanC waves
  143. [18:32:57] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  144. [18:34:32] <TantekC> hello DanC
  145. [18:36:11] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5647 * Jon Hicks * (+82) Examples in the wild -
  146. [18:36:50] * markp (n=markp@adsl-221-13-135.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
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  149. [18:38:03] <rohit> Dan C, you here?
  150. [18:38:07] <DanC> yup
  151. [18:38:11] <TantekC> hey Rohit
  152. [18:38:25] <TantekC> we're awaiting you on the telcon for Alex's podcast
  153. [18:38:28] <rohit> the conf call system is fubar
  154. [18:38:37] <rohit> maybe working now
  155. [18:38:37] <DanC> oh? works-for-me
  156. [18:38:41] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) Quit ("Mama never loved me")
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  158. [18:38:43] <markp> grr
  159. [18:38:58] <KevinMarks> grr?
  160. [18:39:51] <rohit> are we all on irc
  161. [18:40:01] <rohit> will we use this to coordinate the "floor"?
  162. [18:40:09] <rohit> (re: the concall some of us are on)
  163. [18:40:49] <TantekC> we could at least record the questions here
  164. [18:41:14] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  165. [18:41:16] <TantekC> the podcast will be public, therefore I'm sure there is no problem with recording the questions here
  166. [18:41:18] * DanC considers asking about the copyright license of the resulting audio
  167. [18:41:20] <rohit> alex works at msft (4 yrs now)
  168. [18:41:29] <TantekC> good q DanC
  169. [18:41:37] * TantekC prefers to CC-by license it
  170. [18:41:41] <rohit> "data program availability" (sp?) ADO.net/odbc/etc
  171. [18:42:07] <rohit> this is orthogonal to his pro interests, from his web-blogging interests
  172. [18:42:15] <DanC> Alex: been working with web stuff since about 1994 (!)
  173. [18:43:04] <rohit> CC-by 2.5 lic
  174. [18:43:55] * DanC gets up to speed... http://blogs.msdn.com/alexbarn
  175. [18:43:58] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  176. [18:44:07] <rohit> http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/Microformats+++MIX.aspx
  177. [18:44:22] <rohit> my six predictions on the topic:
  178. [18:44:22] <rohit> 2006 will be a hot year for microformats, but 2007 will be even hotter (am pointing to Chris as he was the first one to help me understand the significance - in a bar somewhere in San Francisco last year - thank you Chris).
  179. [18:44:27] <rohit> Most Microsoftees will not have heard of microformats nor know what they are by the end of 2006. But those Microsoftees that need to know, will.
  180. [18:44:30] <rohit> The OPML freaks will embrace microformats.
  181. [18:44:33] <rohit> Those who said structured blogging wouldn't take off will come around as they realize that using microformats in blogs is structured blogging
  182. [18:44:33] <DanC> http://blogs.msdn.com/alexbarn/archive/2006/03/25/560944.aspx My 6 predictions on microformats
  183. [18:44:36] <rohit> Some people will say microformats won't take off, no matter what
  184. [18:44:39] <rohit> New microformat-based business will blossom over the next two years
  185. [18:44:41] <rohit> \me says where "me" == alex barnett
  186. [18:45:43] <rohit> and here was the pre-show "agenda":
  187. [18:45:56] <rohit> > Introductions
  188. [18:45:56] <rohit> > Introductions to microformats - what are they, examples?
  189. [18:45:56] <rohit> > Why should we care?
  190. [18:45:56] <rohit> > Who's doing what today?
  191. [18:45:56] <rohit> > Competing standards - fight or interop?
  192. [18:45:59] <rohit> > Semantic Web or (s)emantic (w)eb
  193. [18:46:01] <rohit> > What of the future? Where is all this going?
  194. [18:48:38] * TantekC gives his intro
  195. [18:48:44] <TantekC> DanC gives his intro
  196. [18:49:29] * DanC cribbed from his linkedin bio, of all things... "Edited HTML 2.0 with Tim Berners Lee, participated in the development of the URI and HTTP specs with Roy Fielding; chaired working group on HTML 4.0 with Dave Raggett and CSS 1 with Hakon Lie, helped Jon Bosak form the XML working group and deliver that spec, working with Eric Miller to finish RDF and OWL and start the next thing. "
  197. [18:49:42] <DanC> (wierd... no useful url. https://www.linkedin.com/profile?trk=tab_pro )
  198. [18:50:14] <rohit> rk's claim to fame is knowing dan and tantek :)
  199. [18:50:39] * TantekC notes that Rohit also pushed us to make microformats.org happen.
  200. [18:50:46] <rohit> "microformats are what you're already using"
  201. [18:51:00] <DanC> I was pretty surprised when I found rohit in `whois microformats.org`
  202. [18:51:00] <rohit> \bookmark -- definitely want to talk about Ozzie's liveClipboard later?
  203. [18:51:32] * DanC has been trying to get some of timbl's bandwidth to look at Ozzie's stuff
  204. [18:52:00] <rohit> Adam Rifkin gets a lot of credit for "funding" µf.org too
  205. [18:52:57] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  206. [18:54:08] <rohit> who is "we" ? -- great question
  207. [18:54:25] <rohit> TÇ talking about kevin and the origins of µf
  208. [18:55:33] * TantekC refers to microformats.org to define the "we"
  209. [18:56:58] <rohit> rk would like to say that civillians are in the "we"
  210. [18:57:02] <rohit> which is a big deal
  211. [18:59:26] <TantekC> TantekC: Alex asks the important question: Why would anyone bother?
  212. [19:00:12] <rohit> can I step in?
  213. [19:00:22] <TantekC> hold on a sec
  214. [19:00:26] <TantekC> i've got a two parter answer to this one
  215. [19:00:49] <TantekC> rohit, could you record the qs
  216. [19:01:00] <rohit> "what is the killer app for µf"?
  217. [19:01:29] <rohit> part 1: (TÇ): less work ; part 2: more benefit
  218. [19:01:51] <rohit> less work for "designers"
  219. [19:02:00] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("->office")
  220. [19:04:44] <TantekC> less work for folks thinking up their own IA
  221. [19:04:49] <TantekC> like a bunch of IA templates
  222. [19:05:44] <DanC> q+ to note that microformats answers lingering who/what/where/when semweb questions, based on a community that groks cool urls, structured blogging
  223. [19:05:59] * IanJ (n=Ian@24-148-44-40.lem-bsr1.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com) has joined #microformats
  224. [19:06:13] <DanC> yo ian. see /topic for log pointers
  225. [19:07:03] <DanC> (I just converted two soccer schedules this week. one from HTML, one from PDF)
  226. [19:07:17] <TantekC> DanC, awesome
  227. [19:07:28] <rohit> benefits "for whom"
  228. [19:07:28] <DanC> q+ q+ q+
  229. [19:07:47] <rohit> Q: when will there be an aggregator (3rd-party) for soccer sheds
  230. [19:07:49] <rohit> schedules
  231. [19:08:10] <rohit> q: "Will i get a bigger audience, less phone calls"? what benefit"
  232. [19:08:18] <rohit> Dan is to answer -- he IS a soccer dad
  233. [19:09:00] * TantekC notes that Rohit didn't make up the SoccerML example thinking of DanC in mind -- nice coincidence guys.
  234. [19:09:30] <rohit> coincidence? Nice pass, more like it :)
  235. [19:10:54] <rohit> \ps: tantek: our poster is hcard-marked up in the www conf proceedings: http://labs.commerce.net/~rohit/pp116-khare.xhtml
  236. [19:11:13] <rohit> \rk would like to chip in
  237. [19:11:17] <DanC> http://www.htgsports.net/scoring/Schedule.aspx?leagueID=53&division=103&team=1589
  238. [19:11:24] <TantekC> q+
  239. [19:11:26] <rohit> about how µf is about core types, not variants like soccer
  240. [19:12:15] <rohit> TÇ interjects: all µfs start *from* real-world examples
  241. [19:13:00] <rohit> \me wonders: is hixie on the call? or just in the #chan right now?
  242. [19:13:37] <TantekC> Hixie is not on the call
  243. [19:13:54] <TantekC> he declined to participate because he needed more time to work out the details of his participation.
  244. [19:14:00] <rohit> no prob
  245. [19:14:07] <DanC> hcard version of that soccer sched: http://dm93.org/2006geo/soccer_u10.html
  246. [19:14:14] <rohit> \rk would really like to interject...
  247. [19:14:19] <rohit> \rk raises hand :)
  248. [19:14:23] <rohit> but dan is in q, no?
  249. [19:14:29] <DanC> no, go ahead, rohit
  250. [19:14:39] <DanC> hixie gave regrets
  251. [19:17:56] <TantekC> Alex wants to touch on interop with other formats, e.g. RDF.
  252. [19:17:59] <rohit> Qs: interop
  253. [19:18:04] * TantekC glances in DanC's direction. ;)
  254. [19:18:07] <rohit> Q:s ozzie's demo
  255. [19:18:30] <rohit> Q3: what do we mean by lowercase semweb
  256. [19:18:52] <rohit> \rk would like to respond to AB's "predictions" post in conclusion :)
  257. [19:19:52] <rohit> DC starts with a great parable of "XML could only have come after HTML" -- that RDF could be *too* generic
  258. [19:20:07] <rohit> that there's a base-starting-point-problem of "where, who, when"
  259. [19:20:23] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  260. [19:20:25] <rohit> "so that people don't have to write an encyclopedia every time they want to write a restaurant menu"
  261. [19:20:44] <rohit> \rk would like to tackle the ozzie-demo Q
  262. [19:21:12] <TantekC> Rohit, ozzie-demo q is all yours
  263. [19:21:20] <rohit> so can tc take the lowercase q
  264. [19:21:22] <rohit> ?
  265. [19:21:27] <TantekC> Rohit, go for it
  266. [19:21:40] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  267. [19:21:51] * markp_ (n=markp@adsl-221-60-40.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  268. [19:22:10] * markp (n=markp@adsl-221-13-135.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  269. [19:22:19] * markp_ is now known as markp
  270. [19:25:35] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  271. [19:25:35] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  272. [19:25:38] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  273. [19:25:47] <DanC> why does RSS have to be part of that picture, rohit? why not just subscribe to the HTML in the 1st place?
  274. [19:25:51] <rohit> rk went on about feeds-of-µf data
  275. [19:26:09] * DanC apologizes for asking rohit to have 2 conversations at once
  276. [19:26:12] * kingryan is listening in at t-rati
  277. [19:26:22] <DanC> listening? this is real-time broacast?
  278. [19:26:27] <rohit> \dan, good q. Probably has something to do with beating devs over the head with "rss == timeseries"
  279. [19:26:36] <rohit> Q: provenance
  280. [19:26:46] <kingryan> DanC, I'm sitting in the room with tantek
  281. [19:26:50] <DanC> ah
  282. [19:28:32] * DanC wonders what it'll take to beat dumb polling http. is XMPP/jabber going to have a critical place? or some mulitcast thingy?
  283. [19:28:35] <rohit> rk on provenance
  284. [19:29:19] <rohit> maybe not -- RK despairs that since it's "all merely text" and network capacity is being driven by HD Video &c, it may never be "painful" enough to go to a more-scalable version. I'll keep working on it in the meantime, tho!
  285. [19:29:39] <rohit> parochially, my bet is XMPP or streaming HTTP -- one of the two
  286. [19:29:54] <rohit> key is which supports web programmers more "easily"
  287. [19:30:27] <rohit> dan quoth: blogging got the world to really use "cool urls" and not-404
  288. [19:30:45] * DanC notes the time
  289. [19:30:53] <TantekC> DanC, can you answer this one in 30s
  290. [19:30:57] <rohit> deadline was 11:30, right?
  291. [19:31:02] <rohit> ah, so
  292. [19:31:39] <TantekC> Rohit, you've got 30s
  293. [19:31:48] <TantekC> let's be sure to give pointers to more info
  294. [19:31:54] <TantekC> and encourage folks to get involved in the community
  295. [19:31:56] <DanC> I gave a 30 second answer, expecting him to wrap.
  296. [19:32:42] <TantekC> Thanks DanC
  297. [19:33:04] <rohit> sorry i dragged the wrapup. Can that get cut? :)
  298. [19:33:09] <rohit> thanks fpr the wraup tc
  299. [19:33:47] <rohit> \need more prep for such a zinger! :(
  300. [19:33:58] <rohit> "predictions" not quite fair :)
  301. [19:34:01] * annevk (n=annevk@pat-tdc.opera.com) has joined #microformats
  302. [19:34:37] <dglazkov> ooh cool, podcast orchestration
  303. [19:34:46] <kingryan> backchannel :D
  304. [19:34:58] <dglazkov> can that go with the podcast?
  305. [19:35:58] <rohit> sure -- it's all out there for better or worse, right, mflogbot?
  306. [19:36:19] <rohit> do we have to hang up now?
  307. [19:36:41] <TantekC> hello annevk, welcome to the channel
  308. [19:36:56] <dglazkov> this "openness" crap sure is scary :)
  309. [19:38:36] <rohit> dan, got a sec, o u h time-constrained one?
  310. [19:38:45] <rohit> "or were you"
  311. [19:38:52] <DanC> huh?
  312. [19:39:02] <DanC> I'm not in a huge rush, though I do have a writing assignment today
  313. [19:39:47] <rohit> call on # ending in 76?
  314. [19:39:52] <rohit> or -01?
  315. [19:40:10] <DanC> the 0241 number, pls
  316. [19:40:36] <rohit> shoot, don't have that in the db. Don't feel you have to put it in a public channel, tho!! hang on
  317. [19:40:40] <annevk> hi TantekC
  318. [19:40:54] <DanC> it's in the .sig of all my mail in this podcast thread
  319. [19:49:05] * IanJ (n=Ian@24-148-44-40.lem-bsr1.chi-lem.il.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Connection timed out)
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  323. [20:19:23] * TantekC (n=Tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("via the nearest exit")
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  326. [20:38:02] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  327. [20:38:02] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  328. [20:44:35] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-71-181.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  329. [21:01:21] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  330. [21:08:21] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
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  332. [21:36:14] * bpt (n=bpt@adsl-221-79-210.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  333. [21:42:20] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
  334. [21:53:32] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5648 * Epersonae * (+117) Examples in the wild -
  335. [21:54:08] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5649 * Epersonae * (+15) Examples in the wild -
  336. [21:55:43] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-71-181.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  337. [21:55:43] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  338. [22:07:24] <KevinMarks> seen your page recently dan? http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
  339. [22:07:38] <KevinMarks> (attack of the evil <plaintext> )
  340. [22:23:17] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
  341. [23:06:11] <mfbot> [[workofart-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=workofart-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=5650 * TimG * (-2) Added response to Ryan Cannon's suggestion.
  342. [23:13:49] * markp (n=markp@adsl-221-60-40.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608]")
  343. [23:14:48] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) Quit ("Mama never loved me")
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