IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-04-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:25:22] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  2. [00:57:38] * briansuda (i=briansud@AC95BA78.ipt.aol.com) Quit ()
  3. [01:02:55] * chikkman (n=mike@c-69-141-81-64.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  4. [01:10:17] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  5. [01:14:03] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  6. [01:20:30] * mike____ (n=mike@c-69-141-81-64.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  7. [01:20:39] * mike____ (n=mike@c-69-141-81-64.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  8. [01:20:39] * chikkman (n=mike@c-69-141-81-64.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  9. [01:37:53] * danath333 (n=some@128-193-141-11.public.oregonstate.edu) Quit ()
  10. [01:41:13] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-141-11.public.oregonstate.edu) has joined #microformats
  11. [01:44:12] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  12. [01:47:25] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  13. [01:47:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  14. [01:48:57] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  15. [01:50:26] * bear_dinner is now known as bear
  16. [02:05:33] * badd (n=ppopov@media.rc.edu) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  17. [02:30:32] * briansuda (i=briansud@ACA351B3.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  18. [02:30:32] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  19. [02:32:34] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@h-68-164-82-93.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  20. [02:39:45] * briansuda (i=briansud@ACA351B3.ipt.aol.com) has left #microformats
  21. [02:40:55] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-141-11.public.oregonstate.edu) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  22. [02:49:01] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  23. [03:02:53] * mstickel (n=mstickel@S0106000393e10a7b.cg.shawcable.net) has left #microformats
  24. [03:07:13] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  25. [04:00:19] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) Quit ("->home")
  26. [04:16:47] * amette (n=kvirc@p54B896FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  27. [04:38:57] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  28. [05:14:10] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  29. [05:15:08] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20051010]")
  30. [05:15:56] * cdevroe (n=cdevroe@c-WBD-72-28-44-40.echoes.net) Quit ("Going to sleep, later all.")
  31. [05:45:56] * valmont (n=chrishol@dsl092-043-004.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  32. [06:32:11] * gingerninja (i=ginger@cuddly.pand.as) has joined #microformats
  33. [06:38:45] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("back soon")
  34. [06:40:26] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@h-68-164-82-93.snvacaid.dynamic.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  35. [07:05:02] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  36. [07:05:02] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  37. [07:05:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  38. [07:17:34] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) has joined #microformats
  39. [07:21:26] * jbergius (n=jbergius@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  40. [07:52:48] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()
  41. [08:05:33] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  42. [08:05:33] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  43. [08:17:03] * trov (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  44. [08:28:37] * Kura (n=Kura@office.mediadesign.nl) has joined #microformats
  45. [08:29:31] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("g'night")
  46. [08:30:56] * jbergius (n=jbergius@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  47. [08:36:00] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  48. [09:41:42] * jbergius (n=jbergius@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  49. [10:47:04] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) has joined #microformats
  50. [11:00:02] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  51. [11:26:17] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  52. [11:38:03] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  53. [11:43:32] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  54. [11:55:22] * amette (n=kvirc@p54B88C28.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  55. [11:55:22] <jibot> amette is http://alexander-mette.de and a TikiWiki developer
  56. [12:15:37] <trov> http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/get-vcal.php?uri=http://www.worldcupkickoff.com/ - is the parser messed up?
  57. [12:16:58] * jbergius (n=jbergius@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  58. [12:36:57] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  59. [13:00:19] * cdevroe (n=cdevroe@c-WBD-72-28-44-40.echoes.net) has joined #microformats
  60. [13:00:19] <jibot> cdevroe is Colin D. Devroe, blogs at http://cdevroe.com/, lives in Clifford, PA, USA and helps run the 9rules Network
  61. [13:04:46] * trov is now known as trovster
  62. [13:46:38] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
  63. [13:52:00] * EliasT (n=Elias@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  64. [13:58:59] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-45-47-38.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  65. [13:59:04] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  66. [14:18:48] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  67. [14:19:44] <mfbot> [[attention-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=attention-formats&diff=0&oldid=5935 * TonyAtRoot * (+0) Implicit Attention Formats - fix broken link
  68. [14:27:34] * EliasT (n=Elias@bi01pt1.ct.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
  69. [14:27:54] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
  70. [14:34:50] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  71. [14:34:50] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  72. [15:04:48] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) has joined #microformats
  73. [15:07:38] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  74. [15:43:37] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  75. [15:47:27] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  76. [15:59:38] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) has joined #microformats
  77. [16:08:32] * Kura (n=Kura@office.mediadesign.nl) Quit ()
  78. [16:08:52] * EliasT_ (n=Elias@bi01pt1.ct.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
  79. [16:18:48] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) Quit ()
  80. [16:23:59] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  81. [16:26:27] * EliasT (n=Elias@bi01pt1.ct.us.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  82. [16:37:10] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  83. [16:45:21] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  84. [16:53:54] * EliasT_ (n=Elias@bi01pt1.ct.us.ibm.com) Quit ("Leaving")
  85. [16:54:31] * EliasT (n=Elias@bi01pt1.ct.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
  86. [16:55:57] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  87. [16:55:57] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  88. [16:56:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  89. [16:57:14] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  90. [17:00:14] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  91. [17:00:14] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  92. [17:03:49] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  93. [17:12:43] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  94. [17:12:43] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  95. [17:30:03] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  96. [17:30:04] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  97. [17:30:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  98. [17:35:17] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  99. [17:45:32] <cdevroe> Is anyone in this channel Jeremy Keith?
  100. [17:46:32] <cdevroe> Anyone care to comment about Jeremy's latest use of hCard within his Blogroll, or is this a discussion that should happen via the mailing list?
  101. [17:47:57] <tantek> cdevroe, my blogroll also uses hCards, take a look: http://tantek.com/
  102. [17:48:18] <tantek> essentially, any time you refer to a person or organization, it makes sense to use an hCard
  103. [17:48:30] <cdevroe> Then, shoudl they also be used in blog comments?
  104. [17:48:36] <tantek> think of hCard as not just a way of publish your contact info, but as a way to semantically markup every person and organization
  105. [17:48:40] <tantek> yep
  106. [17:48:40] <cdevroe> Since we're only providing name, and url
  107. [17:48:45] <tantek> and folks have been doing that for a while now
  108. [17:49:01] <tantek> in combination with those gravatar thingies
  109. [17:49:12] <cdevroe> Seems like overkill, in the sense that there wouldn't be a need to pull that information out (generally) since there is so much info missing at that poit
  110. [17:49:50] <cdevroe> For example, if I wanted to popular my address book with information from Jeremy's blog roll, it'd be missing a huge amount of information.
  111. [17:49:58] <tantek> the point is the same as any semantic markup
  112. [17:50:12] <tantek> "pulling that information out" is only one possible use of semantic markup
  113. [17:50:22] <cdevroe> popular (hah), populate
  114. [17:50:22] <tantek> just because you are not doing that, doesn't mean you shouldn't use semantic markup
  115. [17:50:57] <tantek> people markup things with <h1> <h2> and <p> even though they have no expectation that there will be things "pulling that information out"
  116. [17:51:04] <tantek> no *specific* expectation that is
  117. [17:51:11] <cdevroe> tantek: Agreed. But I guess my guestion is, does adding specific classes to my comments on my blog really make them more semantic than they already were?
  118. [17:51:18] <tantek> screen readers and such do quite intelligent things with semantic markup for example
  119. [17:51:25] <tantek> yes
  120. [17:51:43] <tantek> it's a good semantic XHTML authoring practice
  121. [17:52:37] <cdevroe> So the purpose for blogrolls and blog comments to have hCard markup, is what? Mostly so that the information could be used in other ways at any given time?
  122. [17:53:03] <cdevroe> Not necessarily to export into other applications that you'd want more than someone's name in...
  123. [17:53:07] <tantek> Andy Hume is the person who setup his blog comments to automatically publish gravatar+hCard for commenters
  124. [17:54:15] <cdevroe> Yeah, I can totally see that it'd be easy to do. I suppose I'm looking for the direct benefit being that so much information would be missing.
  125. [17:54:18] <tantek> e.g.: http://thedredge.org/2005/06/using-hcards-in-your-blog/
  126. [17:54:48] <tantek> what is the direct benefit of using <p> tags instead of <br> ? or using <h1> <h2> instead of <b><font><br> ?
  127. [17:55:16] <cdevroe> Well, that the document ends up being semantically correct.
  128. [17:55:22] <tantek> do you actually question all your semantic markup in every instance with "looking for the direct benefit[s]"?
  129. [17:55:35] <tantek> same point with hCard, hCalendar etc.
  130. [17:55:54] <cdevroe> I see.
  131. [17:56:07] <tantek> only *one* application of that semantic markup is to "export into other applications"
  132. [17:56:20] <tantek> there are many others, including numerous ones that yet to be thought up
  133. [17:56:28] <tantek> but that enterprising "remixers" think up all the time
  134. [17:56:41] <tantek> semantic markup is one of those things that pays unexpected dividends
  135. [17:56:47] <cdevroe> tantek: Do you forsee a new attribute coming in the future? Or will class="" always be used to denote semantics?
  136. [17:57:11] <tantek> well, XHTML2 is attempting to introduce the "role" attribute
  137. [17:57:16] <tantek> but I'm a bit skeptical about it
  138. [17:57:32] <tantek> class works really well because it sits neatly at the intersection of two very important needs:
  139. [17:57:40] <tantek> 1. extending semantics of (X)HTML
  140. [17:57:49] <tantek> 2. providing a *convenient* hook for styling
  141. [17:58:10] <tantek> .class selectors are far easier / more convenient / more broadly supported than attribute selectors
  142. [17:58:14] <cdevroe> In other words, no new versions need to come out.
  143. [17:58:23] * mstickel (n=mstickel@S0106000393e10a7b.cg.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  144. [17:58:32] <dglazkov> if anything, a subset, like XHTML basic
  145. [17:58:32] <tantek> i would put that slightly differently
  146. [17:58:34] <bewest> support is the main issue there, it seems to me
  147. [17:58:45] <tantek> we have yet to see a real market need for new versions
  148. [17:59:12] <tantek> we may find one in 5-10 years after we have run out of steam with current approaches
  149. [17:59:22] <tantek> or we may find that microformats work well even in the long term
  150. [17:59:32] <dglazkov> one of the reasons I cooled off toward HTML5 WG
  151. [17:59:35] <tantek> difficult to say from our current perspective
  152. [17:59:46] <cdevroe> What I meant was, we don't need a new version of XHTML to come out, in order to take advantage of microformats now.
  153. [17:59:52] <dglazkov> is realization that markup don't need to change
  154. [17:59:56] <tantek> and the only way to find the limitations of current technologies are to stretch them beyond their limits and see what breaks
  155. [18:00:14] <tantek> many think microformats are pushing HTML beyond where it should go
  156. [18:00:17] <dglazkov> maybe DOM APIs... but not markup
  157. [18:00:21] <tantek> yet things appear to be working quite well
  158. [18:00:38] <tantek> cdevroe, correct, we don't need a new version of XHTML to come out, in order to take advantage of microformats now
  159. [18:00:53] <tantek> and publishers want to take advantage of microformats now
  160. [18:01:02] <tantek> in ways that work well with current publishing methods and current content
  161. [18:01:06] <tantek> without having to rewrite their content
  162. [18:01:08] * cdevroe was about to call Jeremy out on his blog, and am glad I spoke to tantek first. :)
  163. [18:01:17] <tantek> or wait for all browsers to be updated to support some new language
  164. [18:02:33] <cdevroe> I was thinking of building a profile plugin for WordPress that would automatically spit out your hCard based on your profile information. Then then I realized that I would end up supporting only 1 way to markup the hCard, and that isn't the right way to go about it.
  165. [18:03:01] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5936 * Tantek * (+99) Examples -
  166. [18:03:40] <tantek> cdevroe, the thing to do with a WordPress profile plugin is to simply update the current profile page to support hCard, rather than spit out a new hCard page
  167. [18:03:50] <tantek> that way you shouldn't have to change much of the markup at all
  168. [18:04:08] <cdevroe> tantek: What I mean to say was, an easy way to publish an hCard
  169. [18:04:13] <cdevroe> Like: http://cdevroe.com/about/#contact
  170. [18:04:33] <tantek> very nice!
  171. [18:04:33] <cdevroe> I could have that hCard feed from the information I put into WordPress.
  172. [18:05:07] <cdevroe> But, then I'd be actually giving people the hCard markup, when they should have the freedom to choose how to markup their hCards...
  173. [18:05:27] <tantek> by default, just use whatever markup is on their profile page
  174. [18:05:39] <cdevroe> That's the point
  175. [18:05:40] <cdevroe> There is none
  176. [18:06:05] <tantek> huh?
  177. [18:06:06] <cdevroe> WP Profile information is scarcely used throughout the application. And there is no default way of publishing it.
  178. [18:06:07] <tantek> but first
  179. [18:06:18] <tantek> add your hCard to the New Examples on the hCard spec:
  180. [18:06:20] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#New_Examples
  181. [18:06:48] <cdevroe> tantek: I'm not doing anything different, should I list it?
  182. [18:07:07] <tantek> yes of course!
  183. [18:07:25] <tantek> i think what you are doing with the styling is quite nice, and definitely worthy of pointing out
  184. [18:08:22] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5937 * Cdevroe * (+103) Examples in the wild -
  185. [18:09:13] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5938 * Cdevroe * (+15) Examples in the wild -
  186. [18:10:10] <cdevroe> tantek: Should I create that plugin? What I don't want to happen is, I don't want my way of marking up an hCard to become the standard way... since that is the beauty, the right to choose.
  187. [18:10:24] <cdevroe> "the standard way" meaning among WP users.
  188. [18:10:56] <tantek> well, think about it this way
  189. [18:11:28] <tantek> if there isn't a standard wordpress /about page, then make one that is beautifully designed and communicates the right information to readers
  190. [18:11:42] <tantek> make it fit in with the existing template styling
  191. [18:11:51] <tantek> and *then* add hCard to the markup
  192. [18:11:56] <cdevroe> Right.
  193. [18:12:14] <tantek> that way, you won't be designing the markup around hCard, you'll be using hCard in "existing" markup
  194. [18:12:29] <cdevroe> tantek: Side note... I have member profiles being release on 9rules soon, all using hCard markup. So that should expose hCard to a huge audience that would not otherwise know about it.
  195. [18:12:45] <tantek> very cool
  196. [18:13:19] <cdevroe> I'm also considering an hCard > OPML tool, that will allow quick mass feed subscriptions.
  197. [18:13:22] <tantek> definitely add those to the New Examples section as well, and since 9rules will effectively be a tool that supports hCard by default, add it to the "Implementations" section as well
  198. [18:13:24] <cdevroe> on 9rules
  199. [18:13:37] <tantek> you mean like an hCard blogroll -> OPML tool?
  200. [18:13:42] <cdevroe> no
  201. [18:13:53] <cdevroe> See, our member profiles will have tons of member information.
  202. [18:13:59] <cdevroe> URL, Name, etc. etc.
  203. [18:14:22] <cdevroe> So, if someone wants to choose 10 people to subscribe to
  204. [18:14:25] <cdevroe> via RSS, or whatever..
  205. [18:14:46] <cdevroe> I'll give them a way to choose their vcards, run it through a processor, that will spit out an opml file to import into their feedreader..
  206. [18:14:52] <cdevroe> All pulling info from within the hCard
  207. [18:15:19] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  208. [18:15:25] <cdevroe> So perhaps, that is exactly what you meant, I don't know. :) haha
  209. [18:16:51] <cdevroe> tantek: btw, I need a technorati sticker for my ibook.... I've had sitckers on my ibook since day one, and never have I gotten my hands on a technorati one. Shall I send you my hCard?
  210. [18:18:48] <tantek> absolutely. do you have a photo of your iBook on Flickr?
  211. [18:19:02] <cdevroe> but of course, uno momento
  212. [18:19:42] <cdevroe> Here is one: http://flickr.com/photos/cdevroe/60902833/
  213. [18:20:06] <cdevroe> Mine, and my wife's side by side: http://flickr.com/photos/cdevroe/25694374/
  214. [18:21:16] <cdevroe> tantek: I read about your screen woes. while I sympathize, I can't wait to get off this damned 12" screen someday. GOD!
  215. [18:23:48] <tantek> yeah, i wish they would just up the resolution to match what Windows users have had for years
  216. [18:23:59] <tantek> nice stickers btw
  217. [18:24:13] <cdevroe> Hopefully the MacBooks will have that, if the 13.3 rumors are true
  218. [18:26:10] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=5939 * Tantek * (+110) New Examples -
  219. [18:27:04] <cdevroe> tantek: Couldn't you just point, from the wiki, to a Technorati search for hCard, hCalendar, etc?
  220. [18:27:12] <tantek> and yeah, email me your postal adr and i'll send you some Technorati stickers
  221. [18:27:36] <tantek> cdevroe, I could, but those would include mentions/discussions of hCard and hCalendar
  222. [18:27:52] <tantek> and not all hCard/hCalendar markup actually *mentions* hCard or hCalendar by name (nor should they)
  223. [18:28:21] <cdevroe> Gotcha.
  224. [18:28:43] <tantek> OTOH, if you mean a Technorati search for hCards and hCalendar events... well, let's just say I need to get back to coding... ;)
  225. [18:29:14] <cdevroe> ;) Nice.
  226. [18:31:46] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2525P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  227. [18:31:46] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
  228. [18:31:50] <tantek> cdevroe, btw, you may want to read the first few sections of hcard-examples, as they probably apply quite a bit to what you are working on: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples#Authors_of_Pages_and_Posts
  229. [18:31:56] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  230. [18:33:05] <cdevroe> tantek: Yeah. I am reading those now.
  231. [18:33:11] <tantek> cdevroe, check out http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring as well. I would love to get your feedback on it.
  232. [18:34:41] <cdevroe> Can I say that I'd rather see a snippet of a simple, and complex, hCard - with a list of attributes that can be used - rather than seeing the hCard creator.
  233. [18:34:55] <cdevroe> Since I don't like the markup created by the hCard creator.
  234. [18:35:40] <cdevroe> Well, I shouldn't say I don't like it... I just won't use it EXACTLY as it is.
  235. [18:35:56] <cdevroe> I'd rather see people write the hCard themselves from that page.
  236. [18:36:05] <cdevroe> From complex or simple examples.
  237. [18:36:15] <cdevroe> I, and I may be alone, learn better from seeing code.
  238. [18:37:45] <cdevroe> I know the attributes are on the wiki, but I'm wondering why they aren't on the authoring page
  239. [18:39:59] <tantek> interesting. good feedback.
  240. [18:40:20] <tantek> if you have suggested improved default markup for the hCard creator, I'm very much open to suggestions
  241. [18:40:45] <tantek> in addition, the "learn better from seeing code" reasoning is exactly why I wrote the hCard creator to live-update the TEXTAREA with the markup
  242. [18:40:58] <tantek> so you could see exactly what changed when you added a new piece of information etc.
  243. [18:41:02] <cdevroe> tantek: Perhaps.. but it requires me to actually put smething.
  244. [18:41:18] <tantek> would it be better if it started filled out?
  245. [18:41:36] <cdevroe> Well, for me maybe... but others might not agree.
  246. [18:41:56] <cdevroe> And, I'd like to see a more complex one too.
  247. [18:42:02] <cdevroe> With more than one phone number.
  248. [18:42:30] <cdevroe> Also, something needs to be said, very upfront, about the fact that if you include ORG that FN will be ignored in vCard reading applications. Somethign that was very annoying fo rme.
  249. [18:42:41] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=5940 * Tantek * (+84) More tips and guidelines -
  250. [18:42:58] <tantek> huh?
  251. [18:43:05] <tantek> including ORG does not cause FN to be ignored
  252. [18:43:37] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=5941 * Tantek * (+63) More tips and guidelines -
  253. [18:43:43] <cdevroe> tantek: If I create a vCard from my hCard, and I have ORG in my hCard, then I come up as a company in Apple's address book.
  254. [18:43:50] <tantek> cdevroe, i'm adding your suggests to http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring#More_tips_and_guidelines
  255. [18:44:00] <tantek> definitely feel free to add some more as you think of them!
  256. [18:44:22] <tantek> you only come up as a company in Apple's address book if the FN==ORG
  257. [18:44:29] <tantek> I've tested this
  258. [18:44:34] <cdevroe> Not in my case study.
  259. [18:44:46] <tantek> ok, i definitely want to see that case study
  260. [18:44:51] <cdevroe> Ok.
  261. [18:44:55] <tantek> that's worth reporting to the email list
  262. [18:45:05] <tantek> if you could post that at a url, perhaps as an hcard-bug-report
  263. [18:45:20] <tantek> would make for a good test case i'm sure
  264. [18:45:34] <taare> tantek: Don't you think it would be a good idea to use <a class="tel" href="tel:<phone number>"><phone number></a>?
  265. [18:46:08] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=5942 * Tantek * (+26)
  266. [18:46:37] <tantek> taare, see: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Using_RFC2806_with_hCard
  267. [18:46:42] <cdevroe> tantek: I just figured out the cause. I was including my middle initial in the FN... my fault.
  268. [18:46:43] <tantek> it's being discussed
  269. [18:46:46] <taare> ok
  270. [18:46:54] <tantek> feel free to add to the discussion!
  271. [18:47:04] <cdevroe> tantek: Though I would much like to use my middle initial, drat.
  272. [18:47:18] <cdevroe> It is a vCard limitation, I realize.
  273. [18:47:19] <tantek> there should be nothing wrong with using your middle initial
  274. [18:47:31] <tantek> you have to explicitly mark up your name with "n" markup though
  275. [18:47:42] <cdevroe> right, then specify each part
  276. [18:47:46] <cdevroe> given name, family, etc.
  277. [18:47:47] <tantek> correct
  278. [18:47:58] <cdevroe> So much markup, so little time.
  279. [18:47:58] <cdevroe> :)
  280. [18:48:03] <tantek> hah!
  281. [18:49:22] <cdevroe> tantek: I'd be more than happy to setup a bunch of hCard examples
  282. [18:49:30] <cdevroe> complex, simple, blog comments, etc.
  283. [18:49:41] <cdevroe> Just to have them centralized.
  284. [18:50:16] <taare> Well, I don't have to add, but I think it would be nice to mention it the same way it's mentioned you can use mailto: links for emails
  285. [18:50:23] <taare> *have anything
  286. [18:50:37] <cdevroe> btw, something else that is annoying... if you try to publish your hCard inside of a WordPress Page, worpdress has the habit of adding <br /> to the markup due to the fact that the FN and PHOTO are not wrapped in Ps
  287. [18:51:32] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  288. [18:52:27] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@c-67-164-14-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  289. [18:54:31] <tantek> taare, not sure if tel: is as useful as mailto:
  290. [18:54:44] <tantek> nearly every machine handles mailto: properly by default
  291. [18:54:50] <tantek> and people author pages with mailto: already
  292. [18:54:54] <cdevroe> tantek: Would ADDITIONAL-NAME be the proper property to use?
  293. [18:54:59] <tantek> by very few machines handle tel:
  294. [18:55:05] <tantek> and nearly nobody authors pages with tel:
  295. [18:55:19] <tantek> thus tel: doesn't have nearly the same "status" (nor recommendation) as mailto:
  296. [18:55:20] <cdevroe> Only computers with Skype or the like will handle tel:
  297. [18:55:32] <taare> Well, we got to start somewhere :)
  298. [18:55:43] <taare> My phone handle tel
  299. [18:56:05] <tantek> taare, right, and if web publishers start using "tel:" now, independently of hCard, then it will make sense someday to recommend it
  300. [18:56:21] <tantek> but until then, I'm not sure I want to suggest to people that they create a link that most people will not be able to click
  301. [18:56:22] <taare> ok, I understand
  302. [18:56:23] <cdevroe> tantek: ADDITIONAL-NAME?
  303. [18:57:15] <tantek> cdevroe, all lowercase, per http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Semantic_XHTML_Design_Principles
  304. [18:57:40] <cdevroe> haha, sorry, of course I am doing that in here for reasons of readability. I'm not a complete dolt.
  305. [18:59:10] * mstickel (n=mstickel@S0106000393e10a7b.cg.shawcable.net) Quit ("have fun kids.")
  306. [19:00:40] <mfbot> [[citation-irc-notes-2006-04-09]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-irc-notes-2006-04-09&diff=0&oldid=5943 * Brian * (+2365) Started to add notes from the last IRC meetup
  307. [19:02:36] <cdevroe> also of note: tantek: The hCard Creator does not adjust to middle initials.
  308. [19:02:50] <cdevroe> I realize it only asks for First Last... just saying.
  309. [19:08:03] <tantek> cdevroe, note, the hCard Creator is very liberal open source, wanna make it better? :D
  310. [19:08:55] <tantek> feel free to improve it, blog your improvement, and we can check it into microformats.org
  311. [19:11:22] <cdevroe> tantek: Ok. :) Also... do you have IM, I would like to speak with you for a moment..
  312. [19:21:13] <hober> cdevroe: /msg tantek foo bar baz
  313. [19:21:34] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  314. [19:22:21] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  315. [19:22:38] <tantek> hey limbo_
  316. [19:23:08] <tantek> what is the state of your work on rel="group" and rel="member" for people to identify themselves as members of the groups they link to and for groups to link to their members respectively?
  317. [19:34:45] <bewest> I've worked on hcard-o-matic
  318. [19:35:01] <bewest> are their feature requests on it?
  319. [19:35:07] <bewest> or for it?
  320. [19:35:12] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=5944 * DaveO * (+156) Examples in the wild -
  321. [19:35:26] <bewest> in fact, I developed a method for encoding the entire hcard in a url
  322. [19:35:27] <tantek> bewest see above writings by cdevroe
  323. [19:35:45] <bewest> oh middle initial?
  324. [19:35:50] <bewest> hrm
  325. [19:35:58] <tantek> and multiple phone numbers apparently
  326. [19:36:07] <cdevroe> bewest: Also a more complex hCard.
  327. [19:36:11] <bewest> I've been thinking of a really slick interface that would allow you to add properties transparently
  328. [19:36:11] <bewest> yeah
  329. [19:36:13] <cdevroe> multiple numbers, emails, etc.
  330. [19:36:18] <bewest> yeah, yeah
  331. [19:36:25] <bewest> I might get around to it some day
  332. [19:36:38] <cdevroe> BTW... I can't seem to get my middle initial to appear correctly inside the vCard.
  333. [19:36:41] <bewest> I use it on http://nearwhere.com/ although I don't know the current working state
  334. [19:36:43] <cdevroe> Should I use N or FN?
  335. [19:37:42] <bewest> one of the interesting things that came about in our use of hcard is that we started using it as a storage format
  336. [19:37:50] <bewest> we store them in a database
  337. [19:38:00] <bewest> most of the time, it's the record as a whole that is interesting
  338. [19:38:06] <bewest> not the individual attributes
  339. [19:38:12] <bewest> so we only parse it out using xpath when it's needed
  340. [19:38:31] <bewest> and just store the entire hcard in a database field as text
  341. [19:38:49] <tantek> cdevroe, you need to nest an "additional-name" inside an "n" for the middle initial to showup, and inside that same "n" you need "given-name" and "family-name" as well at a minimum
  342. [19:39:23] <cdevroe> tantek: I did that. Though the parser doesn't like missing an FN
  343. [19:39:43] <cdevroe> X2V
  344. [19:39:45] <cdevroe> errors
  345. [19:39:51] <tantek> cdevroe, FN is also required
  346. [19:39:58] <tantek> FN is always required
  347. [19:40:51] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  348. [19:42:22] <cdevroe> so N and FN
  349. [19:42:30] <cdevroe> FN, assuming that means full name
  350. [19:42:38] <cdevroe> I'm trying to get this straight. :)
  351. [19:42:39] <tantek> formatted name
  352. [19:42:51] <tantek> as in how you would typically present your name
  353. [19:43:06] <tantek> which is typically what people do on websites anyway
  354. [19:43:14] <tantek> thus it made a lot of sense for hCard
  355. [19:44:38] <cdevroe> much better: http://cdevroe.com/about/#contact - now includes middle initial. I suppose I'm slightly proud of myself.
  356. [19:48:57] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
  357. [19:51:39] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2525P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  358. [19:53:14] <tantek> cdevroe, now you definitely should add your hCard to the examples in the wild
  359. [19:53:28] <cdevroe> I believe I already did.
  360. [19:54:58] <tantek> ah, just found it. it is interesting to see who adds their hCard to the top of the list and who adds to the bottom
  361. [19:55:14] <cdevroe> tantek: Did I do it incorrectly?
  362. [19:55:17] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has left #microformats
  363. [19:55:24] <cdevroe> haha... is there a certain dynamic that does it to either/or?
  364. [19:55:53] <tantek> i haven't figured that out yet
  365. [19:57:13] * DanC catches up... is also curious about group/member...
  366. [19:58:33] <DanC> we had a little excercise in our research group; we published the results only for machines, so far. http://dig.csail.mit.edu/data
  367. [20:00:07] <tantek> DanC, if it's not on the visible web, I can't see it. :p
  368. [20:00:36] <tantek> the particular application in this case (for group/member) is... you guessed it, blogrolls once again
  369. [20:00:47] <DanC> yeah. plus, of course, since the data is actually relevant to life as we know it, we publish it in the visible web too. http://dig.csail.mit.edu/
  370. [20:00:52] <tantek> many folks list organizations or groups they are a member of in their blogroll
  371. [20:01:05] <tantek> and many organizations list their members in a blogroll of sorts as well
  372. [20:01:13] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  373. [20:01:14] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  374. [20:01:37] <tantek> so given that those links exist, it is a very small matter of markup to make their semantics explicit
  375. [20:01:51] <tantek> again, the idea is to build on existing widespread behaviors
  376. [20:02:03] * DanC looks up notes by tantek (and others?) about nesting hCard in hCalendar
  377. [20:02:38] <DanC> I'm working on hCalendar/hCard itineraries, such as http://www.w3.org/2006/04dc-bos/midw-bos.html
  378. [20:02:58] <DanC> but when you have a vcard inside a vevent, the url properties get confused
  379. [20:03:01] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  380. [20:05:43] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  381. [20:06:04] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.72 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/2006030804]")
  382. [20:06:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  383. [20:07:11] * DanC reviews http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#hCard_locations
  384. [20:08:33] <tantek> DanC, the url properties (nor the UID, nor the CATEGORY) don't get confused because an hCalendar parser should know to not look inside any nested hCards
  385. [20:08:46] <DanC> oh? how?
  386. [20:08:50] <DanC> X2V doesn't know.
  387. [20:08:55] <tantek> it should
  388. [20:09:10] * EliasT (n=Elias@bi01pt1.ct.us.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  389. [20:09:44] <DanC> I can't think of a straightforward way to express that in XSLT/XPath. nor CSS selectors.
  390. [20:10:45] <tantek> DanC, do you have a URL to an example that you are having problems with?
  391. [20:11:05] <DanC> yes. http://www.w3.org/2006/04dc-bos/midw-bos.html
  392. [20:12:10] <DanC> hmm... it seems to get lucky and just grab the 1st URL
  393. [20:12:26] <DanC> but if I changed the column order, it wouldn't get lucky
  394. [20:12:35] <tantek> nice page!
  395. [20:12:41] <DanC> :)
  396. [20:12:52] <DanC> it's generated from SABRE output
  397. [20:13:00] <tantek> wow
  398. [20:13:03] <hober> sweet
  399. [20:13:36] <DanC> code: http://www.w3.org/2006/02dc-nce/flightCal.py
  400. [20:13:40] <tantek> DanC, definitely add that page and links to the tools used to generate it to the hCalendar spec
  401. [20:13:52] <tantek> as an Example in the Wild, and Implementations (for the scripts)
  402. [20:14:02] <tantek> where does one get / see "SABRE" output?
  403. [20:14:18] <DanC> I get SABRE output from travel admin folks
  404. [20:14:34] <tantek> is it a common thing to see from travel sites?
  405. [20:14:39] <tantek> e.g. in emails?
  406. [20:14:42] <tantek> or confirmation pages?
  407. [20:16:47] <DanC> yes, the SABRE stuff I get is plain text email. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre_%28computer_system%29 )
  408. [20:17:03] <DanC> SABRE is the system behind travelocity, etc.
  409. [20:17:23] <DanC> I also worked out some XSLT to add hCalendar to aa.com reservation pages.
  410. [20:17:41] <DanC> I hope to find time this week to scrub the data so I can publish it.
  411. [20:18:41] <DanC> ah... see TestData in http://www.w3.org/2006/02dc-nce/flightCal.py for some example SABRE data
  412. [20:19:00] <DanC> on about the 2nd page
  413. [20:22:10] <DanC> I mixed in aptdata from palmagent... which looks up airport lat/long from wikipedia. I prolly should have made that optional.
  414. [20:23:25] <DanC> any more thoughts on how X2V should know to not look inside any nested hCards? that's not in any of the specs, yet, is it?
  415. [20:23:26] <bewest> DanC: nifty stuff
  416. [20:23:38] <bewest> DanC: you should hook it up to a google map too
  417. [20:23:38] <DanC> thanks, bewest
  418. [20:24:11] <DanC> google map... yes, I'm working on that too: http://dm93.org/2006geo/where.html
  419. [20:24:58] <bewest> yeah... it'd be cool to hook up the flight data to the map
  420. [20:25:25] <bewest> openrico was developed by sabre systems
  421. [20:25:42] <DanC> what I want to do is combine hCalendar and hCard... have a time-line slider, and when you slide it, the google map shows where I'll be at that time
  422. [20:25:44] <bewest> it's not very good though
  423. [20:25:52] <bewest> well, their livegrid component is good
  424. [20:26:01] <bewest> oh nifty
  425. [20:26:02] <bewest> hrm
  426. [20:26:03] <bewest> nifty
  427. [20:26:36] <bewest> how will you get the slider?
  428. [20:26:46] <DanC> wish real hard into lazyweb ;-)
  429. [20:27:01] <bewest> homebrew javascript magic, yahoo's UI, scriptaculous' UI, XUL?
  430. [20:30:05] * jbergius (n=jbergius@a88-112-42-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #microformats
  431. [20:31:05] <bewest> DanC: is this the kind of stuff you get to do all day long, or do you have other stuff to do?
  432. [20:31:45] <bewest> 'course you could use openrico for the slider, too
  433. [20:31:51] <DanC> this is the kind of stuff I do for stress relief. My day job is herding cats, i.e. managing web standards projects. http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
  434. [20:33:33] <DanC> hmm... I should add conversion to UTC time to flightCal.py
  435. [20:35:43] * DanC reviews notes on how I did that with N3 rules... http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/pim/cityLookup.n3
  436. [20:38:01] <DanC> hmm... no, that wasn't a mapping to UTC; just a mapping to timezones
  437. [20:38:21] <bewest> erm
  438. [20:38:29] <bewest> are you going to geocode these things?
  439. [20:38:32] <bewest> lat/lon?
  440. [20:38:36] <bewest> to put it on the map
  441. [20:38:43] <DanC> yes; that much is done.
  442. [20:38:59] <bewest> so you don't need a city -> timezone mapping
  443. [20:39:07] * tantek is very happy that microformats fill the "stress relief" need in DanC's life
  444. [20:39:11] <tantek> :)
  445. [20:39:20] <DanC> :)
  446. [20:39:34] <tantek> DanC, regarding: any more thoughts on how X2V should know to not look inside any nested hCards? that's not in any of the specs, yet, is it?
  447. [20:39:53] * tantek needs to finish writing up /wiki/hcalendar-parsing
  448. [20:40:06] <DanC> bewest, do you know a good way to map lat/long+localtime to UTC time?
  449. [20:40:40] <DanC> I was using wunderground.com to map airport names to timezones
  450. [20:40:59] <bewest> you already have a mapping of timezone -> UTC offsets?
  451. [20:41:02] * tantek begs DanC to not open the space-timezone rift (aka rathole)
  452. [20:41:12] <tantek> too late
  453. [20:41:31] <bewest> I was thinking you could define timezones as polygons using lat/lon for points
  454. [20:41:48] <DanC> yes, you could, at least in theory. I just don't know of a good source of such data available today.
  455. [20:41:57] <bewest> me neither :-(
  456. [20:42:03] * bewest googles
  457. [20:42:12] * tantek shudders
  458. [20:42:22] * DanC hopes to get the data into wikipedia
  459. [20:43:13] <bewest> heh... third entry is an IRC log with you talking about it, DanC
  460. [20:43:22] <DanC> ;-)
  461. [20:43:52] <DanC> that's one nice thing about working at W3C and such for 10 or 15 years... google thinks everything I say is important ;-)
  462. [20:44:19] <bewest> I feel like ISO should have this
  463. [20:44:49] <DanC> but ISO would charge us for it, and only make it available on dead trees. wikipedia is the new ISO, for my money
  464. [20:46:00] * DanC suppresses an urge to rant further.
  465. [20:47:02] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
  466. [20:47:10] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
  467. [20:47:32] <bewest> is there a fancier term for "time zone"?
  468. [20:47:43] <bewest> more scientific or mathematical
  469. [20:47:47] <DanC> don't think so
  470. [20:48:43] * DanC thinks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Zone is pretty good
  471. [20:50:14] <DanC> re <tantek> I've tested this <tantek> you only come up as a company in Apple's address book if the FN==ORG
  472. [20:50:31] <DanC> is that in the hcard test suite? wanna mail the bits to mf-dev?
  473. [20:50:58] <tantek> sure: http://technorati.com/about/contact.html :)
  474. [20:51:02] <bewest> heh I just noticed: function partyOn()
  475. [20:52:44] <DanC> ok, that's a positive test. a negative test ("only") would be nice too.
  476. [20:54:00] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) has joined #microformats
  477. [20:54:56] * EliasT_ (n=Elias@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  478. [20:58:10] * EliasT_ (n=Elias@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  479. [20:58:45] * pnhChris is now known as pnhAway
  480. [21:00:59] <DanC> interesting... "4 days ago: Added a case when FN and ORG are equal" -- http://hg.microformats.org/x2v
  481. [21:03:13] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  482. [21:03:59] * DanC added microformats to http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi/ProjectsUsingMercurial
  483. [21:15:43] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/2006030804]")
  484. [21:23:42] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@c-67-164-14-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
  485. [21:24:02] <tantek> DanC, wouldn't negative tests be all other hCards in the suite?
  486. [21:24:36] <DanC> I was thinking of one with ORG and no FN. but I guess that's not allowed.
  487. [21:32:19] <tantek> correct
  488. [21:33:16] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  489. [21:39:21] <mfbot> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations&diff=0&oldid=5945 * ZachInglis * (+272) XFN Implementations -
  490. [21:42:50] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  491. [21:48:27] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) has joined #microformats
  492. [21:49:44] * danath333 (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) has joined #microformats
  493. [21:49:44] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  494. [21:49:47] * jbergius (n=jbergius@a88-112-42-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit ()
  495. [21:55:48] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  496. [21:56:56] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  497. [21:59:33] <bewest> hrm I think I found a shapefile
  498. [21:59:39] <bewest> dunno how to read them
  499. [22:04:29] <DanC> I dunno how to read them either, but I'm pretty sure there's perl (ugh) code in CPAN to do it.
  500. [22:04:49] <DanC> it's a solved problem in the open source world I'm pretty sure. google's your friend.
  501. [22:07:17] <bewest> I found a C library already :-)
  502. [22:07:28] <bewest> this should make a good project for tonight
  503. [22:08:02] <DanC> do keep me posted
  504. [22:17:49] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  505. [22:20:20] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  506. [22:20:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  507. [22:22:42] * cdevroe is now known as cdevroe-afk
  508. [22:43:40] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
  509. [22:50:12] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  510. [22:53:08] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) has joined #microformats
  511. [22:55:10] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  512. [22:58:35] * pnhAway (n=cac6982@c-68-45-47-38.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  513. [23:04:18] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) has joined #microformats
  514. [23:04:23] * danath333 (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  515. [23:07:57] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  516. [23:09:27] * ObstreperousMerr (n=some@128-193-138-147.public.oregonstate.edu) Quit ()
  517. [23:30:36] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  518. [23:35:15] * imajes_ (n=imajes@growl/imajes) has joined #microformats
  519. [23:36:46] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  520. [23:41:50] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  521. [23:51:04] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit (Connection timed out)
  522. [23:52:34] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  523. [23:53:37] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  524. [23:54:25] * bear is now known as bear_dinner
  525. [23:54:58] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.