IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-04-28
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:10:29] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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- [02:20:16] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [02:33:17] <mfbot>
[[irc-meetups]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-meetups&diff=0&oldid=6129 * Brian * (+1013) IRC Meetups -
- [02:34:15] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [02:39:02] <pnhChris>
anyone have a moment to eyeball some hatom/author markup and make sure there aren't any silly issues on my end?
- [02:39:17] <pnhChris>
...anywhere on http://chunkysoup.net/
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- [02:41:27] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [02:42:05] <briansuda>
pnhChris, i'm not 100% sure, but i think you are still missing a class="author"
- [02:42:29] <briansuda>
where you have <address class="vcard"> you will need to add 'author' to the list
- [02:42:39] <pnhChris>
btw, the datetime padding in the latest hatom2atom.xsl is working on the places on the site that need it... but they're fairly simple cases
- [02:42:41] <briansuda>
<address class="vcard author">
- [02:43:18] <pnhChris>
probably .. lemme double check the docs and my templates
- [02:45:02] <pnhChris>
figured i'd ask someone to look before claiming things were down to just 2 atom validation issues popping up :)
- [02:46:06] <briansuda>
i'm still looking it over, i'm not an hAtom expert...
- [02:46:33] <pnhChris>
no.. its there.. in 0.1 at least.. "find the Nearest In Parent <address> element(s) with class name author and that is/are a valid hCard"
- [02:47:10] <pnhChris>
let me add the class and see if the xslt file picks it up
- [02:47:28] <briansuda>
one other things too
- [02:48:00] <briansuda>
i think that the class="author" needs to be in the same 'container' as the hfeed, so your <div class="page">
- [02:48:15] <briansuda>
i think your author is outside of that, maybe that's why it is not picking it up
- [02:50:50] <pnhChris>
no.. i just added author and its picking it up now
- [02:51:16] <briansuda>
ok.
- [02:51:48] <pnhChris>
and that home page is now down to 1 error and 2 warnings when I pass it through the feed validator
- [02:52:00] <pnhChris>
.. pass the output of the transform through
- [02:53:55] <briansuda>
what is the error?
- [02:54:37] <pnhChris>
feed level updated is an empty tag
- [02:56:24] <pnhChris>
well
- [02:56:39] <pnhChris>
the error is:
- [02:56:42] <pnhChris>
line 3, column 12: updated must be an RFC-3339 date-time [help]
- [02:56:42] <pnhChris>
<updated/>
- [02:57:14] <briansuda>
and what does you <update> look like? ISO date-time?
- [02:57:42] <pnhChris>
there isn't a feed level updated time in the html doc
- [02:57:59] <pnhChris>
only individual entry data
- [02:58:12] <pnhChris>
which are getting read and padded fine
- [02:58:20] <pnhChris>
where needed
- [02:58:53] <pnhChris>
http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lukearno.com%2Fprojects%2Fhatom2atom%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fchunkysoup.net%252F%26ctype%3Dtext%252Fxml
- [02:59:01] <pnhChris>
if you want to look
- [02:59:15] <tantek>
nice double escaped : there
- [02:59:25] <tantek>
%253A
- [02:59:27] <briansuda>
i'm looking at the hAtom spec at the moment to see
- [02:59:50] * tantek wonders just where this feeding of urls to urls to urls ends
- [03:00:11] <pnhChris>
it ends when feed validator knows hatom :P
- [03:00:29] <pnhChris>
and evening tantek
- [03:01:09] <briansuda>
UNIX pipes for the web
- [03:01:30] <briansuda>
validate | hAtom2atom | html
- [03:01:38] <tantek>
indeed
- [03:03:12] <briansuda>
well looking at the hAtom spec it doesn't seem to mention Feed level <updated>, but i can't believe they forgot a required element
- [03:03:42] <pnhChris>
well, it can be one of two things
- [03:03:50] <pnhChris>
that updated is there, but with invalid data
- [03:04:02] <pnhChris>
.. but isn't required to be there
- [03:04:07] <pnhChris>
or it is required to be there
- [03:04:44] <briansuda>
the XSLT file will extract an <updated> if a class="updated" is at the feed level
- [03:05:03] <briansuda>
given that the feed validator is throwing an error, i would think it IS required
- [03:05:43] <briansuda>
are there other sites out there that are encoded in hAtom, you can pass them through the feedvalidator and see if they pass
- [03:05:47] <pnhChris>
hatom-issues text has "If no element with the class name updated is present, use the youngest updated from the feed's entries"
- [03:06:08] <pnhChris>
which makes sense, in that case it would be that the xslt file isn't doing that yet
- [03:06:16] <pnhChris>
.. or properly yet
- [03:07:10] <briansuda>
<!-- TODO: When there is no element with class="updated" at the feed level
- [03:07:10] <briansuda>
We might want to try to use the element from the entry level
- [03:07:10] <briansuda>
with the greatest (newest) date-time
- [03:07:10] <briansuda>
-->
- [03:07:17] <briansuda>
that is a comment in their code
- [03:07:41] <pnhChris>
you beat me to looking at the xslt file.. i was chasing other hatom pages and finding they're not parsing
- [03:07:45] <briansuda>
so it looks like you have a valid hAtom feed, but not a valid Atom feed (yet)
- [03:09:07] <tantek>
isn't it supposed to also derive the "updated" from the "published" date if there is no explicit "updated"
- [03:09:11] <tantek>
?
- [03:09:26] <briansuda>
it is doing that at the hentry level
- [03:11:22] <tantek>
does it require an explict "hfeed" ?
- [03:11:43] <briansuda>
no, that is optional. if none is present it assumes the page is the feed
- [03:12:02] <tantek>
it should be able to take multiple "hentry"s and make them into a feed, whereas I'm getting a one-entry feed when I transform my blog: http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url=http%3A//tantek.com/
- [03:12:22] <pnhChris>
yeah, the feed level output looks similar to on soundadvice to mine
- [03:13:11] <pnhChris>
but i can't validate it cause the feed is too big .. .or at least the front page one is
- [03:14:06] <pnhChris>
2 errors there...
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- [03:14:33] <pnhChris>
feed level updated and an error being thrown due to the email obfuscation
- [03:14:34] <pnhChris>
http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lukearno.com%2Fprojects%2Fhatom2atom%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.soundadvice.id.au%252Fblog%252F2006%252F04%252F11%252F%2523namespaces%26ctype%3Dtext%252Fxml
- [03:15:04] <pnhChris>
... and some more nice double encoding
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- [03:20:32] <pnhChris>
ah well, i've got to ask robert about some other stuff next time I see him on so I'll bring this up too
- [03:20:40] <pnhChris>
the progress has been real good though
- [03:21:06] <briansuda>
yeah. it is good to see.
- [03:21:33] <briansuda>
i'm excited about the ability to just keep 'piping' all these urls into one another and get data back
- [03:21:37] <pnhChris>
now to figure out how to check if a shell command exists via applescript
- [03:22:24] <briansuda>
i think there is an HTML Request call
- [03:23:11] <pnhChris>
theres probably more direct ways
- [03:23:22] <pnhChris>
interrogating where or something
- [03:24:25] <pnhChris>
but the applescript i wrote so you can subsribe to hatom pages isn't using Tidy becuase I don't know if its on the system
- [03:25:11] <briansuda>
i have Tidy on my system, but i have the dev tools installed.
- [03:26:09] <pnhChris>
don't here... and i do too.. but i'm still running 10.3.9 not 10.4 on this box
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- [03:28:05] <briansuda>
i'm sure there is a binary to download somewhere
- [03:30:30] <pnhChris>
yes.. but i don't want to distribute or require it
- [03:31:12] <pnhChris>
i got no problem installing it here if i need it.. i'm sure i had it at one point / format
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- [03:32:00] <briansuda>
well, maybe some one would host the service with TIDY cleaning things automatically
- [03:32:15] <briansuda>
although, i have had my share of problems with TIDY lately!
- [03:32:38] <pnhChris>
i think the proxy does use tidy
- [03:33:33] <pnhChris>
but i was just using the xsl file and xsltproc
- [03:34:35] <briansuda>
there might be a TIDY only web service out there you could use.
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- [03:35:12] <pnhChris>
i just didn't want to require any external services
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- [03:37:40] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=6130 * Brian * (+107) Upcoming -
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- [10:50:26] <jibot>
BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
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- [12:17:25] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [13:03:13] <DanC_lap>
"it ends when feed validator knows hatom :P" not a bad idea. anybody want to submit patches? (w3.org runs a feed validator)
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- [13:21:41] <pnhChris>
maybe i'm overly cautious, but i'd think i'd look for a bit more resolution/agreement to some of the items on the hatom-issues document before looking to codify things
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- [13:38:30] <DanC_lap>
trying out http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume on http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/misc/vita ...
- [13:38:54] <DanC_lap>
affiliation says to use a vcard for the org, but I give my title at those orgs
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- [13:42:28] <DanC_lap>
bummer that URL in vcard doesn't say whether it's the url of the person or the URL of the org
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- [13:44:11] <DanC_lap>
and the way my organization does contact info on a vita doesn't fit in <address>
- [13:45:38] <DanC_lap>
hmm... maybe it fits in 2 <address>'s
- [13:45:55] <DanC_lap>
the <object> trick is cute...
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- [13:57:34] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
- [14:00:11] <DanC_lap>
wierd... x2v seems to require the id to be on the parent of the relevant element.
- [14:01:56] <pnhChris>
morning RobertBachmann .. you gonna be around for a bit today?
- [14:02:47] <RobertBachmann>
hi. I'll be around for the next 90 minutes or so.
- [14:02:59] <RobertBachmann>
I'm just reading the logs of today
- [14:08:00] <davecardwell>
on the home page of a website I'm creating has a latest news entry which I've marked up with hCalendar
- [14:08:03] <davecardwell>
<h2 class="summary"> for the title, <abbr class="dtstart"> for the day it was posted, <p class="description"> for a longer post summary, and <a class="url"> for a link to the full entry
- [14:08:07] <davecardwell>
is this an appropriate use of hCalendar, or should I be using something else like hAtom (I'll be marking up the main news page with hAtom)?
- [14:11:21] <RobertBachmann>
If your news are events use hCalendar otherwise use hAtom
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- [14:12:06] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [14:16:18] <pnhChris>
ok.. well mostly just wanted to ask if you've got any other xsl changes to commit in the next day or two
- [14:16:56] <pnhChris>
... i can mail you / the mf list about the other stuff i wanted to chat about... validating and such.. don't have the time to get into that now
- [14:17:55] <pnhChris>
RobertBachmann: but are there any more changes to the datetime padding you still have to do, or anything else like moving the updated dates to the feed level that you're going to get to soon
- [14:18:26] <pnhChris>
if not I'll push out a new netnewswire script as soon as I hear from my qa tester or two
- [14:19:53] <RobertBachmann>
I'm planning to do some work over the weekend but I'm not sure if there will be a new commit within the next days.
- [14:22:18] <RobertBachmann>
re: mail, either mail the mf maillinglist or the hatom2atom mailling list <http://rbach.priv.at/Lists/listinfo/hatom2atom>.
- [14:22:30] <pnhChris>
np.. i'll hold off till next week.. i can't do anythign today anyway
- [14:22:40] <pnhChris>
if theres a checkin there is.. if not there's not
- [14:23:40] <pnhChris>
as for progress... with the last checkin the html on chunkysoup.net -> xslt proxy -> feed validator.org is down to 1 error and 2 different warnings
- [14:23:54] <pnhChris>
(probably see that discussion in the logs from last night)
- [14:26:53] <RobertBachmann>
I'm currently looking at http://feedvalidator.org/check.cgi?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lukearno.com%2Fprojects%2Fhatom2atom%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A%2F%2Fchunkysoup.net%2F%26ctype%3Dtext%2Fxml
- [14:27:29] <RobertBachmann>
re: "line 3, column 12: updated must be an RFC-3339 date-time"
- [14:27:29] <RobertBachmann>
The algorithm described at <http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues#Feed_updated_.28atom:updated.29> is not yet implemented
- [14:27:29] <RobertBachmann>
but I'd like to implement it within the next two weeks.
- [14:28:02] <RobertBachmann>
re: line 5, column 78: Same-document reference [help] <link rel="alternate" href="http://chunkysoup.net/#posts" type="text/html"/>
- [14:28:35] <RobertBachmann>
I'm confused. What's the problem here?
- [14:30:25] <davecardwell>
RobertBachmann: thanks
- [14:33:26] <pnhChris>
i'd have to chase it in the atom specs / validator because i don't know really... was something i was gonna ask when I brought it up on the list
- [14:37:22] <RobertBachmann>
re: <tantek> it should be able to take multiple "hentry"s and make them into a feed, whereas I'm getting a one-entry feed when I transform my blog: http://www.lukearno.com/projects/hatom2atom/?url=http%3A//tantek.com/
- [14:37:23] <RobertBachmann>
See <http://rbach.priv.at/hAtom2Atom/readme.txt> for info on the $implicit-feed parameter.
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- [14:45:00] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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- [15:25:21] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=6131 * RobertBachmann * (+269) Robert Bachmann - hAtom2Atom TODO
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- [16:02:09] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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- [16:10:23] <mfbot>
[[rest/datatypes]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=6132 * DrErnie * (+60) References -
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- [16:29:45] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=6133 * PhilWilson * (+106) added University of Bath What's On to list of examples
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- [16:30:43] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [16:32:22] <dglazkov>
quick poll: what does tilda in path (i.e. http://some-site.com/path/~stuff mean?
- [16:37:00] <briansuda>
user directory
- [16:37:09] <briansuda>
~username
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- [17:10:50] <evanpro>
is that really a poll?
- [17:10:52] <evanpro>
Per se?
- [17:10:55] <evanpro>
Or just a question?
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- [17:15:05] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [17:33:09] <dglazkov>
does it matter?
- [17:34:26] <evanpro>
dglazkov: for the record
- [17:34:29] <evanpro>
for posterity
- [17:34:55] <dglazkov>
it's a poll/question :)
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- [17:57:25] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [18:18:58] <jibot>
RodBegbie is a grumpy Scots git. Blogs at http://groovymother.com/ Earns pay at Bose.
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- [19:48:07] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [20:49:03] <pnhChris>
here's a sorta silly question.. can you nest hfeeds?
- [20:51:58] <pnhChris>
say.. if you had a sample hfeed in a document's content area on a site... and then you later went back and changed the site's template so that every page supported hatom and the content area of every page -- regardless of whats there -- became the content item of the new feed... what would you be left with
- [20:57:16] <briansuda>
i would say No, just because it doesn't map to Atom then... so it wouldn't make much sense. Although, with the XSLT i bet it would actually give you a feed for each nested item, then one big feed with all the items... so i'm not sure
- [20:58:28] <pnhChris>
how do you mean not map to atom?
- [20:58:56] <pnhChris>
(i should probably look at all the opacity stuff before asking silly questions that are probably already answered)
- [20:59:24] <briansuda>
can you nest feeds in Atom?
- [20:59:55] <pnhChris>
that's not what you're doing though... it would be an atom feed that has html in the content.. that happens to contain hatom markup
- [21:00:32] <pnhChris>
its a hatom rules/parsing/opacity question more then an atom one
- [21:01:34] <briansuda>
that is a good question... does hAtom currently tag HTML along, or does it extract only the text?
- [21:02:00] <pnhChris>
its not a pressing question really.. I was just going to add hatom to a page with status updates in a small piece of content... but i know next time i redesign the site the sitewide templates wil lhave hatom wrapping everything
- [21:02:25] <pnhChris>
oh, its grabs the whole chunky of html
- [21:02:35] <pnhChris>
and drops it in atom content/atom sumamry
- [21:05:17] <pnhChris>
opaqueness, not opacity
- [21:07:52] <pnhChris>
i guess it comes down to parsing rules and whether a parser is expected to see an hfeed element inside of a content element... and most of the parsing document has yet to be written
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- [21:11:57] <briansuda>
yes, i would agree, but i don't have an answer
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- [21:19:39] <pnhChris>
kicked off a message to the list
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- [21:33:34] <mfbot>
[[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=6134 * RyanKing * (+91) 0.1 hAtom implementations - added scribbish as an implementation
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- [21:38:10] <briansuda>
Has anyone seen this: http://www.sswug.org/see/28488 XML Matters: Pipestreaming microformats, (you need to be a member to read the article)
- [21:42:25] <briansuda>
i found the full article for free http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/java/library/x-matters44.html?ca=drs-
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- [22:50:52] <jibot>
BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
- [22:50:57] <mfbot>
[[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=6135 * Dan Kubb * (+39) People on irc -
- [22:53:33] <mfbot>
[[User:Dan Kubb]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Dan_Kubb * Dan Kubb * (+62)
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- [23:00:04] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [23:00:28] <kingryan>
hey DanC, you around?
- [23:02:57] <kingryan>
any xslt experts around here?
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