IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-05-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:08:06] * briansuda (i=briansud@ACA55689.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:08:06] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  7. [00:24:14] <briansuda> anyone around want to talk FAQs? and/or design patterns?
  8. [00:24:56] <briansuda> I've been going through the mailing list archives and attempting to bring the Wiki up to par.
  9. [00:25:12] <briansuda> i think i have found 3 candidates for Design patterns.
  10. [00:25:45] <briansuda> 1) Table Axis/Id pattern - it is pretty similar to the object include pattern, but with tables instead of the object element
  11. [00:26:24] <briansuda> 2) ID attribute as an anchor selector. hCard and hCalendar both allow you to specify a URL fragment to extract foo.htm#bar
  12. [00:26:48] <briansuda> 3) xml:lang="" attribute for specifying the language of the content
  13. [00:27:40] <briansuda> any thoughts? #1 i certainly think should be, #2-3 are seeking some affermation
  14. [00:29:06] <pnhChris> i have a question on how well 2 actually works in the real world ... see my rambling post on hatom earlier this week
  15. [00:30:21] <briansuda> pnhChris, i think i missed it? was it on the mailing list or a blog post?
  16. [00:30:26] <pnhChris> list
  17. [00:30:33] <pnhChris> re: multiple feeds in a page
  18. [00:30:42] * briansuda is looking
  19. [00:31:13] <pnhChris> though hatom may be a bit different the hcard and haclendar where existing consuming apps tend to deal with feeds on a 1:1 basis
  20. [00:31:22] <tantek> briansuda, on Table/Axis/id - I don't think that is a pattern, as much as just another parsing rule for microformats.
  21. [00:31:40] <briansuda> is it any different than include?
  22. [00:31:43] <tantek> feel free to add a to-do for me to add that to hcard-parsing to start with
  23. [00:31:44] <tantek> yes
  24. [00:31:57] <tantek> include is a whole new construct that is *adding* new semantics to XHTML
  25. [00:32:16] <tantek> whereas Table/Axis/Headers/ID is imply using XHTML the way it is supposed to be used
  26. [00:32:24] <tantek> so it is not a new pattern at all
  27. [00:32:28] <briansuda> i'll agree to that.
  28. [00:32:40] <briansuda> So then xml:lang isn't really a pattern then either.
  29. [00:32:45] <tantek> thus it really should just be documented as part of hcard-parsing (and later abstracted to generic microformat-parsing)
  30. [00:32:48] <tantek> correct
  31. [00:32:53] <tantek> nevermind xml:lang
  32. [00:32:58] <tantek> just use "lang" attribute
  33. [00:33:07] <tantek> which is valid HTML4, valid XHTML 1.0 and maximally compatible
  34. [00:33:13] <briansuda> i think that is depricated in XHTML
  35. [00:33:17] <tantek> no
  36. [00:33:40] <tantek> only XHTML 1.1 - which no one can practically correctly use anyway due to its requirement of application/xhtml+xml
  37. [00:33:47] <tantek> nevermind XHTML 1.1
  38. [00:34:36] <briansuda> OK, well do you have a sec for a couple of FAQs that were never resolved?
  39. [00:35:23] <tantek> briansuda, regarding 2), ID attribute, it is already documented here: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing#URL_handling
  40. [00:36:17] <briansuda> yes, but i was wondering if it should be extracted to a more general case (i was thinking design pattern, but that is incorrect)
  41. [00:36:18] <tantek> go ahead with the FAQs to resolve...
  42. [00:36:39] <tantek> there are a *ton* of things in hcard-parsing that i need to extract to a more general case
  43. [00:37:06] <briansuda> there as never a long thread about deceased date in hCard - there was never a good answer
  44. [00:37:21] <tantek> my plan there is to write hcalendar-parsing to describe what we figured out for x2v, and then abstract common aspects between that and hcard-parsing into a microformats-parsing document
  45. [00:37:33] <briansuda> some though vevent, others dtend, etc... nothing clear was decieded except it was not a good idea.
  46. [00:37:49] <tantek> the answer to the deceased date problem lies in the space of biography and genealogy formats
  47. [00:38:07] <briansuda> ok.... IM accounts in hCards
  48. [00:38:59] <tantek> mostly solved. see: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples#New_Types_of_Contact_Info
  49. [00:39:50] <briansuda> should i include those two FAQs with links? or just skip some/all
  50. [00:39:56] <tantek> yes
  51. [00:40:06] <tantek> include with links
  52. [00:40:33] <tantek> part of the problem a lot of us have realized with the wiki is that the answers are there, but sometimes they are hard to find, thus more places to find the stuff that link to the answer is better
  53. [00:40:39] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-141-149-183-35.bos.east.verizon.net) Quit ()
  54. [00:40:50] <briansuda> ok. Those were the big two, the others all had some sort of answer. i'll start adding them to the faq-pages
  55. [00:41:19] <tantek> awesome. i look forward to seeing the diffs.
  56. [00:42:10] <briansuda> tonight won't be the final round... i keep finding MORE and MORE!
  57. [00:44:36] <briansuda> pnhChris, i see no one responded to your thread. I don't use hAtom as much as i should so i can't really help with all the possible issues. I do know hCalendar potentially suffers from the same thing, except i think a single .ics file with multiple calendars is valid, whereas i don't think that is the case with .atom
  58. [00:45:27] <tantek> MORE and MORE is fine ... incremental iteration is the way to be constantly productive
  59. [00:46:19] <tantek> pnhChris, you may want to include an ID attribute on each hfeed element so that you can individually target them for transformation, just like X2V works with hCards and hCalendar events with IDs
  60. [00:46:43] <briansuda> agreed tantek, i just thought i would have gotten futher than i did, but there were alot more emails to wade through than suspected...
  61. [00:46:53] <pnhChris> yeah.. i didn't hit any snags with stuff i'm doing.. nor really have a case for a page with more then 1 feed right now.. just sort of a wandering question on my mind... particularly as the ability to consume moves out into more and more apps
  62. [00:47:26] <pnhChris> right.. i dont' see it as much as a matter of being able to do it in the markup
  63. [00:47:47] <tantek> the point is, that putting in those IDs may help the consumers and apps
  64. [00:47:52] <pnhChris> just that i don't see any apps built to allow you to select from multiple items at a given URL
  65. [00:48:14] <pnhChris> ... both desktop apps and non
  66. [00:48:19] <tantek> not yet
  67. [00:48:30] <tantek> but the ids will enable those apps to be built
  68. [00:50:10] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  70. [00:50:45] <pnhChris> maybe, just wondering if its asking too much of apps that could otherwise be easily retrofitted if there was only 1 feed per page.. or if to avoid those problems ids and class="hfeed" need to be looked at as required
  71. [00:53:08] <pnhChris> but as i posted maybe its just my lack of imagination getting in the way.. I can see how one might consume multiple hcards and import them all at once.. but I can't see how NNW might consume a url with 3 hfeeds in it
  72. [00:55:25] <pnhChris> or consume a url with a document wide hfeed (no id or class) and then one day the feed HTML changes and there feed now has an explicit fragment.. is that the same feed? should it just assume it is? what if instead of 1 it jumps to 2?
  73. [00:55:56] <pnhChris> doesn't seem as easy as hcards or hcalendar which get consumed once.. not without any rules worked out ahead of time
  74. [00:57:17] <pnhChris> its probably worth slapping together some simple test cases.. .though I won't have time until at least the middle of next week
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  76. [00:57:54] <pnhChris> work them into a test suite, or otherwise use to clear up anything in question
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  81. [01:00:40] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=6328 * Brian * (+830) added a few more FAQs
  82. [01:00:57] <tantek> pnhChris, yes, test cases for hAtom would be excelllent
  83. [01:01:13] <tantek> probably want to start by just documenting a few you think of at http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-examples
  84. [01:01:14] <briansuda> i'm not pleased with #26, it was a question from the list and i can't seem to find an answer for anywhere that is already documented. I also don't think that list is complete
  85. [01:04:21] <pnhChris> i'll look that page over again, but I think its fairly complete in terms of the content of the feeds
  86. [01:05:37] <pnhChris> its the defining where a feed is / choosing between part that I'd be looking to address
  87. [01:05:56] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=6329 * Tantek * (+406) added Phil Haack's article on DevSource
  88. [01:06:52] <mfbot> [[press]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=6330 * Tantek * (+17)
  89. [01:09:12] * Remi (n=remi@dsl-136-149.aei.ca) Quit ()
  90. [01:09:57] <tantek> brian, #26 is answered by the spec
  91. [01:10:57] <tantek> hmmm... thought it was
  92. [01:11:09] <tantek> the short answer is, if multiple values aren't explicitly forbidden, then they are allowed
  93. [01:11:20] <briansuda> there was a discussion about 'can there be multiple photos' which was never really settled
  94. [01:11:26] <tantek> the answer is yes
  95. [01:11:30] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
  96. [01:11:53] <tantek> the only challenge is how many of the multiple properties do vcard implementations properly support - but that is a different question
  97. [01:13:14] <briansuda> so should i replace my list with your short answer, would that be better?
  98. [01:14:49] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=6331 * Tantek * (+85)
  99. [01:15:00] <tantek> i took a shot at iterating
  100. [01:16:11] <briansuda> not a prob, i am getting some hCalendar ones in right now.
  101. [01:16:37] <tantek> awesome
  102. [01:19:10] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=6332 * Brian * (-312) Added 20-23 FAQs
  103. [01:20:22] <briansuda> OK, i have a few general FAQs as well, but i'm not sure they should go in the /wiki/faq page?
  104. [01:20:36] <briansuda> #1, How do i Validate Microformats?
  105. [01:21:09] <briansuda> #2 class="url fn" breaks CSS formating: FALSE... multple values ok answer here
  106. [01:21:36] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.1/2006012608]")
  107. [01:21:54] <briansuda> #3 CSS selectors can't select rel-tag: FALSE a[rel~="tag"] answer here
  108. [01:22:07] <briansuda> what is the best FAQ for these?
  109. [01:22:15] <briansuda> or multiple FAQ pages
  110. [01:23:00] <briansuda> #4 How do i localize/format my dates: A: You don't...
  111. [01:23:39] <briansuda> #4 how do i display the localized format of my dates for each region/TZ: A: you don't ...
  112. [01:25:51] <mfbot> [[hresume-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-feedback&diff=0&oldid=6333 * AlexanderMuse * (+185)
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  114. [01:27:27] <mfbot> [[hresume-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-feedback&diff=0&oldid=6334 * AlexanderMuse * (+90)
  115. [01:31:08] <tantek> brian, regarding validation - that's a "working on it" item. see /wiki/to-do
  116. [01:31:28] <tantek> one can use the XMDPs for various microformats to at least verify that the right class names are being used
  117. [01:31:41] <tantek> #2? could you provide more context for it
  118. [01:31:54] * PhilipAshlock (i=user@c-24-17-157-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  119. [01:32:15] <tantek> #3 should be reworded as "How do you write a CSS selector for rel-tag?"
  120. [01:33:33] <briansuda> #2, let me try and find the exact email it came from....
  121. [01:34:02] <tantek> you can put #3 in the rel-tag-faq
  122. [01:34:05] <briansuda> my question is where should those FAQs go, i was planning on putting them on the wiki/faq, but they don't seem to sit well with the current ones.
  123. [01:34:30] <tantek> #2, if we even bother, sounds like it should be on hcard-faq
  124. [01:34:45] <tantek> need more detail on #4 also
  125. [01:35:27] <tantek> i'm going to tweak hcalendar-faq a bit
  126. [01:36:01] <briansuda> #4 someone was worried about DD-MM-YY vs. YYYY-MM-DD vs. MM/DD/YYYY, and all this can be handled by CSS NOT microformats, out-of-scope answer all mf cares about is ISO
  127. [01:39:52] <briansuda> #2 http://microformats.org/discuss/mail/microformats-discuss/2006-April/003696.html
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  132. [01:42:25] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  134. [01:45:09] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=6335 * Tantek * (+119) tweaked a few answers, added links
  135. [01:46:02] <tantek> #4 sounds like it needs some rephrasing / rethinking... it is about the human-friendly display of the date
  136. [01:46:39] <tantek> Microformats enable folks to write Greasemonkey javascripts for example to take the ISO date from the 'title' and replace the human readable date with a version that is localized.
  137. [01:47:32] <briansuda> it's not really an issue, per se, but date formats keep poping up. It would be nice to have a reference
  138. [01:49:45] * PhilipAshlock (i=user@c-24-17-157-71.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  139. [01:51:15] <tantek> yes, go ahead and add that one to the general faq
  140. [01:52:26] <briansuda> OK, so #4 and #1 to general, #3 to rel-tag-faq and #2 to hcard-faq?
  141. [01:53:27] <tantek> #2 OTOH does not qualify as a FAQ IMHO - if we see it again, then we can add it
  142. [01:53:54] <briansuda> OK, i'll add the others in a bit.
  143. [01:55:07] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  144. [01:55:09] <briansuda> tantek, nice to see that you are speaking at An Event Apart
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  149. [02:05:18] <tantek> yes, i'm very much looking forward to AEA http://www.aneventapart.com/
  150. [02:06:34] <PhilipAshlock> i'm glad to see you'll be there to evangelize, or whatever your presence may bring
  151. [02:06:55] <pnhChris> hmmm
  152. [02:07:39] <pnhChris> july, huh
  153. [02:08:16] <PhilipAshlock> please excuse my ignorance, but can i have jibot introduce myself when i join the channel?
  154. [02:08:27] <PhilipAshlock> i'd be happy to add it to the irc wiki page if needed
  155. [02:09:35] <mfbot> [[events]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=6336 * Tantek * (+184)
  156. [02:10:15] <tantek> Philip, where are you from?
  157. [02:10:24] <tantek> and do you have a blog?
  158. [02:10:29] <PhilipAshlock> i'm in Bellingham WA
  159. [02:11:03] <PhilipAshlock> just a list of sites at the moment, but should be relaunching the site with full blog and portfolio within the next week or so - http://www.philaestheta.com
  160. [02:11:54] <PhilipAshlock> with this design: (a bit heavy on file size at the moment) - http://dropbox.philitopia.com/philaestheta/dev/
  161. [02:12:12] <tantek> ?def PhilipAshlock is in Bellingham WA and can be found online at http://www.philaestheta.com/
  162. [02:12:12] <jibot> PhilipAshlock is in Bellingham WA and can be found online at http://www.philaestheta.com/
  163. [02:12:19] <PhilipAshlock> thanks!
  164. [02:14:00] <PhilipAshlock> I'm a web developer and undergrad student at Western Washington University and currently in a position to coordinate the use of microformats for contact information and events on all university web pages
  165. [02:14:45] <PhilipAshlock> i'm also working with George Dyson to develop his website, you might be more familiar with his sister Esther Dyson. George lives near me
  166. [02:17:29] <PhilipAshlock> tantek: can anyone use the ?def command? Should i add that to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc ?
  167. [02:17:53] <tantek> yes, anyone can use the ?def command
  168. [02:19:49] <tantek> you should feel free to improve the wiki in general, and if you have questions about anything in particular, you can ask here (like you did). if you think the information would help someone go for it. note that jibot has some good online documentation that a search will reveal.
  169. [02:22:15] <PhilipAshlock> i did see that, but felt there was a little lack of clarity in being greeted with " Initial topic: add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc" upon joining the channel and making the association that I could provide my little introduction/definition by going there.
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  175. [02:52:19] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  176. [02:55:06] * Remi (n=remi@dsl-136-149.aei.ca) Quit ()
  177. [03:11:17] * tantek sets mode +o briansuda
  178. [03:11:43] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-faq&diff=0&oldid=6337 * Brian * (+85) added FAQ for CSS selector for Rel-Tag
  179. [03:18:14] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=6338 * Brian * (+246) Added Q & A about Microformat validators, iterate/update as needed
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  182. [03:29:31] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=6339 * Tantek * (+7) minor tweaks
  183. [03:30:22] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-faq&diff=0&oldid=6340 * Tantek * (+14) fixed CSS, added code markup
  184. [03:37:06] <briansuda> general XFN question? can you use rel="me" for other protocols besides HTTP? such as mailto: or aim:?
  185. [03:39:38] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=6341 * PhilipAshlock * (+463) People on irc -
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  187. [03:53:37] <tantek> brian, yes
  188. [04:03:16] * Jonnay (n=jonny@d199-126-185-156.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  192. [04:25:16] <jibot> Jonnay is a programmer, graphic designer and musician. He blogs at http://blog.jonnay.net and his music is at http://www.jonnay.net
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  195. [04:39:42] * tantek just realized that "An Developer's Introduction to Microformats" should probably be "A Developer's Introduction to Microformats"
  196. [04:39:56] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=6342 * Brian * (+68) Brian Suda -
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  205. [08:08:16] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  206. [08:09:19] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  207. [08:09:19] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  208. [08:20:31] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  210. [08:24:11] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
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  216. [10:26:38] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  217. [10:26:47] <Kura> morning tantek
  218. [10:27:09] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  231. [12:19:22] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  232. [12:57:29] * badd (n=ppopov@media.rc.edu) has joined #microformats
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  234. [13:04:27] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=6343 * 5homfray * (+199) Examples in the wild -
  235. [13:29:18] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  236. [13:29:18] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  237. [13:29:56] <trovster> http://www.gr0w.com/articles/design/microformats_logo_design_using_scalable_css_and_html/ heh, seen this?
  238. [13:37:59] <pnhChris> looks like a lot of code to me... but fun none the less
  239. [13:41:19] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
  240. [13:41:19] <jibot> evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
  241. [13:54:20] <Atamido> Has anyone ever seen -k-border-radius or -o-border-radius work?
  242. [13:54:31] <trovster> Do they exist?
  243. [13:54:37] <trovster> I know -m-border-radius do.
  244. [13:54:45] <Atamido> Google says they do.
  245. [13:55:09] <trovster> URL?
  246. [13:56:11] <Atamido> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=o-border-radius
  247. [13:57:18] <trovster> Heh, no. Which ones say they work.,
  248. [14:01:02] <Atamido> http://www.google.com/search?q=khtml-border-radius
  249. [14:01:21] <Atamido> No, Google says they exist.
  250. [14:02:16] <trovster> Well -x-css exist, as -x- is vender specific.
  251. [14:02:35] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
  252. [14:03:23] <Atamido> Right.
  253. [14:03:36] <Atamido> But my question was, do they "work"?
  254. [14:03:45] <Atamido> I already know they exist.
  255. [14:11:26] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
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  260. [15:26:29] <tantek> Atamido, -k- might work in KHTML/KDE based engines, -o- might apply to Opera.
  261. [15:28:20] <tantek> rather, -khtml- for khtml based engines. -k- doesn't affect anything AFAIK
  262. [15:29:01] <Atamido> Right.
  263. [15:29:13] <Atamido> But has anyone actually /seen/ it work?
  264. [15:29:32] * Atamido doesn't have a KHTML browser.
  265. [15:30:28] * brianoberkirch (n=brianobe@c-24-0-31-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit ()
  266. [15:36:09] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
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  269. [15:52:24] <tantek> Atamido, Safari uses the KHTML engine
  270. [15:52:33] <tantek> as does Konqueror
  271. [15:56:12] * pnhChris is now known as pnhAway
  272. [15:59:03] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  273. [15:59:04] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  274. [15:59:42] <trovster> tantek: Got some suggestions on the repeating vevent?
  275. [16:00:01] <tantek> let's take a look at it again
  276. [16:01:12] * brianoberkirch (n=brianobe@63.98.55.146) has joined #microformats
  277. [16:02:58] <tantek> URL?
  278. [16:03:03] <trovster> pm?
  279. [16:05:13] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
  280. [16:06:39] <mfbot> [[book-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=book-examples&diff=0&oldid=6344 * Tantek * (+11)
  281. [16:13:58] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  282. [16:13:58] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  283. [16:22:32] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  284. [16:22:32] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards
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  289. [16:37:58] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  290. [16:37:58] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  291. [16:40:20] <Atamido> tantek: Perhaps, but I am on Windows. :)
  292. [16:42:42] * Jonna1 (n=jonny@d199-126-185-156.abhsia.telus.net) has joined #microformats
  293. [16:46:53] <tantek> I thought there was a Windows port of Konqueror but I could be mistaken.
  294. [16:48:07] * Jonnay (n=jonny@d199-126-185-156.abhsia.telus.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  295. [16:57:08] * DanC wishes for hCalendar/hCard drag-n-drop for filling out http://www.valleytransporter.com/resform.html
  296. [16:57:54] <DanC> I'm making travel arrangements for a meeting in Amherst, MA; how many times am I going to type in the same info? sigh.
  297. [16:57:59] <trovster> http://forum.multipack.co.uk/viewtopic.php?id=62 - what do people think of this idea?
  298. [16:58:39] <briansuda> DanC, i think that is the whole point of Live Clipboard!
  299. [16:58:49] <DanC> yes, can I have one, please? ;-)
  300. [16:59:13] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  301. [17:00:02] <DanC> what's Odeon? I suggest making that a link
  302. [17:00:17] <trovster> It's a huge cinema chain in the UK.
  303. [17:00:41] <DanC> title of id=62 is "Odeon iCal + RSS" for those that haven't followed the link
  304. [17:00:43] <trovster> And the Multipack is a Midlands, UK based group, so it is perfectly adequate for the group ;)
  305. [17:01:02] <DanC> but you dropped the URI in this channel
  306. [17:01:34] <DanC> anyway, yes, cinema times in hCalendar is a natural
  307. [17:01:52] <DanC> hCard too, cuz the location of the cinema matters.
  308. [17:02:02] <trovster> Meh, the semantics of this channel really annoys me some tims.
  309. [17:02:28] <trovster> I'm always trying to write Microformats into projects, and get slammed down most of the time.
  310. [17:02:40] <DanC> suggesting a link is slamming?
  311. [17:03:18] <trovster> It was unrequired pedantic nonsense.
  312. [17:03:45] <trovster> Being a human you're able to read in context, and it mentions cinemas.
  313. [17:06:00] <Atamido> tantek: I don't see any Win32 ports of KHTML, although there is some stuff for viewing X windows sessions in Windows.
  314. [17:07:52] * Atamido tries to parse the long words above and fails.
  315. [17:10:46] <Atamido> DanC: It took me longer to figure out what "id=62" was. :P
  316. [17:11:15] <Atamido> I thought to myself, "Wait a minute, id's can't start with a number."
  317. [17:12:17] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  318. [17:12:17] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  319. [17:12:58] <Atamido> Well, not unless it is escaped. ;)
  320. [17:13:31] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  321. [17:18:25] <Atamido> Hmmmm, or not.
  322. [17:18:35] <Atamido> That part of the spec isn't very clear.
  323. [17:18:36] <tantek> trovster, FWIW, it makes a lot of sense to publish cinema schedules with hCalendar
  324. [17:19:12] <trovster> Aye, but they're not doing it ;) I've contacted them, saying I can help, if not get the MP to hack it on
  325. [17:20:30] <tantek> i wouldn't bother to go to all the work of building their own cross-platform, cross-calendar-program iCalendar .ics feed though, because it is a huge pain, and they can save a bunch of time by simply using X2V or the Technorati Events Feed service to provide a synthetic .ics feed from the hCalendar
  326. [17:20:44] <tantek> there have been a few blog posts about this
  327. [17:21:03] <tantek> about how it is MUCH easier to just use hCalendar and a converter, rather than building iCalendar feeds
  328. [17:21:36] <trovster> Yeh, the job will be to make hCalendar / hCard for that information
  329. [17:22:04] <Atamido> Would it really be that hard?
  330. [17:23:22] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  331. [17:24:09] <Atamido> How do you represent multiple possible start times for an event in hCal?
  332. [17:26:09] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
  333. [17:34:53] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  334. [17:34:59] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  335. [17:36:36] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  336. [17:36:36] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  337. [17:36:39] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  338. [17:43:11] <DanC> at least I didn't have to re-key my flight itinerary; http://www.w3.org/2006/05dc-edi/itin-enrich.xsl worked again on my AA itinerary, so I've got the http://www.w3.org/2006/06dc-bdl/aa-bdl-uf.ics
  339. [17:45:13] * Remi (n=remi@dsl-136-149.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
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  341. [18:19:24] <tantek> Atamido, if by multiple possible start times, you mean multiple occurrences, then RDATE
  342. [18:22:49] <briansuda> anyone around want to discuss a few remaining FAQ questions that could use some better answers
  343. [18:23:17] <briansuda> 1# "URI schemes vs. visible data" class="tel" vs href="tel://"
  344. [18:23:31] <briansuda> #2 The question of 'When we say "XHTML" do we mean...' is something that I've often heard.
  345. [18:24:17] <briansuda> #3 language mappings for property names, Why are all microformat properties in english, etc.
  346. [18:24:56] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30-dhcp-kc.everestkc.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  347. [18:43:13] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
  348. [18:44:11] <tantek> brian, I think #1 is already answered somewhere, probably in hCard-brainstorming
  349. [18:44:22] <tantek> visible data wins
  350. [18:44:45] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-141-149-183-35.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  351. [18:45:07] <tantek> #2 is When we say "XHTML" we mean backward compatible XHTML 1.0, per Appendix C
  352. [18:45:44] <tantek> #3 is answered in http://microformats.org/wiki/mailing-lists#bad_topics_for_discussion
  353. [18:46:01] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=6345 * ScottReynen * (+30) 4.6.1 Event Component -
  354. [18:46:19] * tantek sets mode +o briansuda
  355. [18:47:02] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=6346 * RyanKing * (-30) Reverted edit of ScottReynen, changed back to last version by Mark Mansour
  356. [18:47:18] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=6347 * ScottReynen * (+15)
  357. [18:48:34] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=6348 * ScottReynen * (+30) changes first example to use timezone with DST
  358. [18:48:38] <tantek> what's going on with hcalendar-examples folks?
  359. [18:49:53] <kingryan> those examples were strict copy-paste from the rfcs
  360. [18:49:56] <kingryan> but he's modifying them
  361. [18:50:27] <tantek> ah
  362. [18:50:46] <tantek> and no sign of him on the channel
  363. [18:51:00] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=6349 * RyanKing * (-45) Reverted edit of ScottReynen, changed back to last version by RyanKing
  364. [18:51:09] <kingryan> I think he'll figure it out :D
  365. [18:51:21] <tantek> perhaps adding a bit more to the preamble might help
  366. [18:51:29] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-examples#RFC_2445_examples_in_hCalendar
  367. [18:52:10] <tantek> I think he is just trying to "improve" the examples, without realizing that they are not supposed to improved since they are taken directly from RFC2445.
  368. [18:52:26] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-examples&diff=0&oldid=6350 * RyanKing * (-227) added a note about RFC examples
  369. [18:52:26] <kingryan> yeah
  370. [18:52:33] <kingryan> they're supposed to be crappy examples
  371. [18:53:06] <tantek> since he's not on the channel, consider sending a gentle note to the discuss list
  372. [18:57:08] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  373. [18:59:12] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-faq&diff=0&oldid=6351 * ScottReynen * (+124) changed timezone answer to focus on what people are most often doing (using offsets), add warning about DST, and remove irrelevant spec-talk ("MUST")
  374. [19:07:04] * Remi (n=remi@dsl-136-149.aei.ca) Quit ()
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  378. [19:41:41] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  379. [19:41:41] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  380. [19:42:11] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  385. [19:59:41] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  386. [19:59:41] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  400. [21:31:08] <mfbot> [[htodo]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/htodo * Smackman * (+1550)
  401. [21:36:14] <mfbot> [[htodo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=htodo&diff=0&oldid=6352 * Smackman * (+273)
  402. [21:42:45] <mfbot> [[htodo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=htodo&diff=0&oldid=6353 * Smackman * (+13)
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  404. [22:05:01] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  406. [22:17:14] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  407. [22:20:46] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  408. [22:30:44] * pnhChris_ (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  409. [22:30:49] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  410. [23:05:31] * brianoberkirch (n=brianobe@24-240-252-70.static.sprn.tx.charter.com) has joined #microformats
  411. [23:12:52] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  412. [23:13:10] * badd (n=ppopov@media.rc.edu) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  413. [23:15:26] * spf (n=spf@dsl001-150-127.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  414. [23:24:16] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("meeting")
  415. [23:30:08] * brianobe1kirch (n=brianobe@24-240-252-70.static.sprn.tx.charter.com) has joined #microformats
  416. [23:32:45] * jbergius (n=jbergius@a88-112-42-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit ()
  417. [23:37:19] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()
  418. [23:38:53] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Connection timed out)
  419. [23:40:38] * brianoberkirch (n=brianobe@24-240-252-70.static.sprn.tx.charter.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  420. [23:47:10] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) has joined #microformats
  421. [23:53:40] * brianobe1kirch (n=brianobe@24-240-252-70.static.sprn.tx.charter.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  422. [23:55:47] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) Quit ()

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.