IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:12:01] * arapehl (n=ara@toronto-HSE-ppp4210187.sympatico.ca) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:15:41] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ()
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  6. [00:46:09] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.231-81.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  7. [00:46:09] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  8. [00:56:40] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  9. [00:56:40] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  10. [00:58:23] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  11. [01:31:27] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
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  13. [01:40:36] * evanpro (n=evanpro@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) has joined #microformats
  14. [01:45:35] <mfbot> [[media-formats]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/media-formats * DeanEro * (+2798) a first pass at a new, simple listing of media formats which will hopefully lead to simple description of common metadata which will hopefully be useful to restart media-info-brainstorming
  15. [01:48:11] <mfbot> [[media-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-formats&diff=0&oldid=7147 * DeanEro * (-5) Current Media Info Formats -
  16. [02:00:15] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  17. [02:00:15] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  18. [02:18:32] * remi (n=remi@c207.134.231-81.clta.globetrotter.net) Quit ()
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  21. [02:57:47] <deanero> happy independence day to those us'ers in the room
  22. [02:57:52] * deanero (n=dean@dsl254-024-154.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  23. [03:07:04] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.4/2006050817]")
  24. [03:15:47] * arapehl (n=ara@toronto-HSE-ppp4210187.sympatico.ca) Quit ("Bye!")
  25. [03:23:36] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  26. [03:36:10] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  27. [03:36:11] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  28. [03:58:27] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AD88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  29. [04:07:00] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  30. [04:44:45] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  31. [04:44:46] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  32. [04:44:54] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has left #microformats
  33. [05:11:09] * tantek (n=tantek@ool-182d094a.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #microformats
  34. [05:11:09] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  35. [05:11:45] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  36. [05:42:17] * tantek_ (n=tantek@ool-182d0540.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #microformats
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  40. [06:22:46] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
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  43. [07:41:40] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ()
  44. [08:01:53] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  45. [08:01:54] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  46. [08:32:04] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  47. [08:32:04] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
  48. [08:50:08] * deanero (n=dean@dsl254-024-154.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  49. [08:52:03] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-139-126-254.range86-139.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  50. [08:52:03] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  53. [09:21:49] * Harry_Slaughter (n=harry@pool-71-116-86-17.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net) Quit ("http://devbee.com/")
  54. [10:59:24] * amette__ (n=kvirc@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  55. [11:01:19] * amette__ is now known as amette
  56. [11:08:07] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  58. [11:14:19] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  62. [12:53:23] * amette (n=kvirc@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("keep havin' fun")
  63. [13:07:48] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  64. [13:07:49] <jibot> amette is http://alexander-mette.de and a TikiWiki developer
  65. [13:12:49] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("keep havin' fun")
  66. [13:24:38] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  67. [13:24:38] <jibot> amette is http://alexander-mette.de and a TikiWiki developer
  68. [13:59:24] * bear_afk is now known as bear
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  73. [14:22:58] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  74. [14:23:01] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
  75. [14:24:08] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  76. [14:26:55] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  77. [14:32:48] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) has joined #microformats
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  83. [15:03:34] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) has joined #Microformats
  84. [15:03:35] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00)
  85. [15:43:49] * drewinthehead wonders if the microformats.org mailman needs a kick
  86. [15:54:27] <trovster> http://www.cssbeauty.com/archives/2006/July/microformats_cheat_sheet/ ace
  87. [15:54:29] * gsnedders kicks him anyway
  88. [15:59:25] <drewinthehead> trovster: yeah, that's really handy. I use it all the time.
  89. [16:00:12] * jrodgers (n=jrodgers@sherlock.uwaterloo.ca) has left #microformats
  90. [16:01:01] <drewinthehead> brian's always keen to get feedback if anything is unclear on the cheatsheet or if you spot any typos
  91. [16:11:58] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@70-59-79-117.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
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  102. [16:44:32] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@209.212.25.198) has joined #microformats
  103. [16:44:33] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  104. [16:46:01] <mfbot> [[xoxo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo&diff=0&oldid=7148 * Josh * (-87) Implementations -
  105. [16:56:35] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@oliis.plus.com) Quit ()
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  110. [17:30:46] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  111. [17:30:47] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  112. [17:31:10] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has left #microformats
  113. [17:34:29] <mfbot> [[XFN]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/XFN * Chris Messina * (+843)
  114. [17:34:40] <mfbot> [[XFN]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=XFN&diff=0&oldid=7149 * Chris Messina * (+1) Specification -
  115. [17:36:21] <mfbot> [[XFN-brainstorming]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/XFN-brainstorming * Chris Messina * (+356)
  116. [17:40:55] * deanero_ (n=dean@66.239.39.109.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
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  122. [18:15:43] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  123. [18:18:04] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  124. [18:18:04] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  125. [18:18:05] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  126. [18:27:59] * deanero_ (n=dean@66.239.39.109.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
  127. [18:31:02] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("keep havin' fun")
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  131. [18:41:39] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  132. [18:44:32] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  133. [18:44:33] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  134. [18:54:26] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  135. [18:56:09] <mfbot> [[XFN-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=XFN-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+356) XFN-brainstorming moved to xfn-brainstorming
  136. [18:56:45] <mfbot> [[XFN]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=XFN&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+844) XFN moved to xfn
  137. [19:03:09] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  138. [19:03:10] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
  139. [19:16:01] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  140. [19:16:01] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  141. [19:24:54] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit ()
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  148. [21:01:40] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-79-212.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  149. [21:01:41] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  150. [21:05:18] * DanC starts to tune in for office hours
  151. [21:06:05] <bewest> DanC: what hours are not office hours?
  152. [21:06:16] <bewest> do you have teaching hours or something?
  153. [21:07:14] * valmont (n=chrishol@dsl092-043-004.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  154. [21:07:25] <DanC> office hours in the sense of http://microformats.org/wiki/irc
  155. [21:07:44] <DanC> esp http://theryanking.com/blog/archives/2006/04/19/office-hours/
  156. [21:12:28] <tantek_> argh.
  157. [21:12:33] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  158. [21:12:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  159. [21:13:08] * tantek just realized that hCard was truncated by "Evan" unintentionally in his edit of 14 June 2006.
  160. [21:13:49] <tantek> If people see large amounts of content (large negative numbers from mfbog) removed from wiki pages, please speak up about it - perhaps even on the list.
  161. [21:15:43] <tantek> I need some help here folks
  162. [21:16:22] <tantek> DanC, if you're around for office hours, could you take a look at the revision histories of the pages that Evan edited to see if he accidentally corrupted any more? http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Contributions&target=Evan
  163. [21:16:38] <kingryan> DanC: I'm here now - you have anything specific for office hours?
  164. [21:17:31] <DanC> well, I'm working on Yet Another Flight Itinerary, kingryan. dunno if I'll publish an hcalendar version
  165. [21:18:03] <tantek> kingryan, can you help with the pages that Evan edited to see if he accidentally corrupted any more? http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Contributions&target=Evan
  166. [21:18:11] <kingryan> yes
  167. [21:18:17] <DanC> I managed to get a to-do list together a week or two ago. http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do#Dan_Connolly
  168. [21:18:20] * tantek is fixing hCard now
  169. [21:19:24] * DanC isn't sure what sort of corruption we're talking about
  170. [21:19:35] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7150 * Tantek * (+4232) restored loss of content from Evan edit of 14 June 2006.
  171. [21:19:49] <kingryan> DanC: some browsers have a 32k limit on textareas
  172. [21:20:04] <kingryan> so anyone with such a browser who edits a larger page will silently truncate the page
  173. [21:20:10] <kingryan> don't worry, I'll clean it up
  174. [21:20:16] <DanC> oh my... http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=prev&oldid=6631
  175. [21:20:46] <tantek> DanC, to be specific, this edit of Evan on 14 June 2006: http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=6631&oldid=6591
  176. [21:20:56] <tantek> notice all the red text on yellow background at the bottom
  177. [21:21:00] <kingryan> it appears to be all good now
  178. [21:21:11] <tantek> hCard is fixed yes
  179. [21:21:18] <tantek> how about the other pages he touched?
  180. [21:21:29] <DanC> this looks bad too: http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=prev&oldid=6597
  181. [21:21:54] <kingryan> yeah, but its already been rolled back
  182. [21:22:05] <DanC> and this one: http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo&diff=prev&oldid=6598
  183. [21:22:19] * drewinthehead (n=drewinth@chauchcr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  184. [21:22:20] <jibot> drewinthehead is Drew McLellan - watch him, he's tricky.
  185. [21:23:06] <DanC> I reviewed all the 14 June "removed draft..." diffs from Evan; those are the only ones that look bad. I'll leave the clean-up to you 2
  186. [21:26:40] * briansuda is around, but busy with other issues
  187. [21:27:09] <briansuda> The other day i committed some files to HG, be sure to pull/update
  188. [21:30:17] <tantek> briansuda, did you fix the <abbr class="type" title="..."> handling?
  189. [21:30:46] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=7151 * Tantek * (+564) need to modularize some specs to avoid wiki edit corruption
  190. [21:32:59] <briansuda> yes, that should be working in the newest version, i also added a test case for it
  191. [21:35:07] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=7152 * Tantek * (+505) added discussions section with link to feedback page
  192. [21:35:38] <bewest> ooOOoo
  193. [21:35:50] * bewest just though of a neat app to consume xoxo and other list structures
  194. [21:37:35] <bewest> hmm assuming the world uses good markup/microformats
  195. [21:37:41] <bewest> if you are looking for a doctor...
  196. [21:37:46] <bewest> you are probably comparing several sets of lists
  197. [21:37:58] <bewest> and it'd be useful to get the intersection of those lists
  198. [21:38:04] <tantek> yes!
  199. [21:38:09] <bewest> but they are on different web pages
  200. [21:38:09] <tantek> list handling for comparison shopping
  201. [21:38:13] <bewest> yeah
  202. [21:38:14] <bewest> all kinds of things
  203. [21:38:18] <tantek> that would rock
  204. [21:38:39] <bewest> in the instance of the doctor...
  205. [21:38:54] <DanC> so far the various microformats are light on stuff to make duplicate detection reliable. There's nothing like foaf:mbox in hCard, for example.
  206. [21:39:00] <bewest> you might be looking at at least 2 or three different lists... your insurance provider's list, a specific facility's list
  207. [21:39:12] <bewest> and perhaps a list provided by a friend or something
  208. [21:39:19] <bewest> or yahoo or something
  209. [21:39:27] <bewest> and it's really important to get the intersection
  210. [21:39:34] <DanC> hmm... my hack to convert .vcf to hcard seems to have gotten the big yawn.
  211. [21:39:53] <bewest> I just found my insurance provider provides downloadable vcards
  212. [21:40:05] * markp (n=markp@adsl-221-74-227.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  213. [21:40:10] <bewest> but they don't have nice url's
  214. [21:40:12] <bewest> :-(
  215. [21:40:53] <bewest> onclick="sendtovcard('form_contact233525134', 'path/to/url.asp')
  216. [21:41:16] <bewest> such a shame
  217. [21:41:25] <bewest> but it'd come in handy for lists of reviews or hcards or whatever
  218. [21:43:32] <bewest> DanC: I think it's a good idea
  219. [21:43:45] <tantek> DanC, did you add it to the implementations page and implementations section on the hCard page (now that I've fixed it ;) ?
  220. [21:43:52] <bewest> DanC: search engines should use it to display results of indexed vcards
  221. [21:44:06] <bewest> I might be able to convince someone here to do that
  222. [21:44:38] * DanC tries to figure out/remember where "here" is
  223. [21:44:52] <tantek> IMHO the key to a good .vcf -> hCard converter is getting a web designer with a good visual eye to author the resultant hCard+CSS to make the result as beautiful visually as it is beautiful in markup.
  224. [21:45:01] <DanC> add it in 2 (more) places? hmm.
  225. [21:45:20] <DanC> yes, I hope to recruit a designer
  226. [21:45:45] <kingryan> DanC: bewest->here == :alexa
  227. [21:46:02] <bewest> oh, sorry :-)
  228. [21:47:51] <DanC> hmm... I suppose that http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/contacts.kid isn't really what a designer is likely to work from; example output is prolly better
  229. [21:48:07] <DanC> I could attach some in a follow-up to my uf-dev msg
  230. [21:50:30] <bewest> is that psp?
  231. [21:52:34] <tantek> what we need are beautiful hCards
  232. [21:53:47] <bewest> I thought the hcard-o-matic output was pretty nice
  233. [21:54:19] <tantek> thanks bewest!
  234. [21:54:32] <tantek> I think it is pretty coarse and could definitely use some nice CSS.
  235. [21:55:01] <tantek> DanC, does your vcf->hCard converter create the same markup as the hCard creator?
  236. [21:55:06] * ryanlowe (n=chatzill@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  237. [21:55:08] <tantek> Or did you make up your own hCard markup?
  238. [21:55:29] <DanC> I made up my own.
  239. [21:55:35] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("keep havin' fun")
  240. [21:55:58] <DanC> can the hCard creator create all the hcards in the test suite? I tested my code against the test suite
  241. [21:56:44] <tantek> huh? why would you want to create all the hCards in the test suite? many of them are edge/error cases.
  242. [21:56:51] <tantek> they are designed as tests for consumption
  243. [21:56:57] <tantek> not as ideal models of hCards to produce
  244. [21:57:14] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  245. [21:57:29] * tantek pokes DanC for making up his own markup instead of re-using. ;p
  246. [21:57:36] <DanC> what I tested was taking each .ics file in the test suite, making hcard out of it with my code, then converting back with x2v, and seeing if the results match what I started with
  247. [21:58:28] <tantek> testing the round trip is good
  248. [21:58:44] <tantek> but there is no need to match the intermediate hCard with the hCards in the test suite
  249. [21:58:46] <DanC> hmm... http://microformats.org/code/hcard/creator seems to have more and less than the test suite... doesn't have organization-unit, but does have aim screenname
  250. [21:58:47] <tantek> or rather
  251. [21:59:00] <tantek> it is certainly suboptimal from a user display point of view
  252. [21:59:09] <DanC> right; I didn't use the .html in the test suite
  253. [21:59:27] <tantek> which is important if you're looking to get folks to use it and not just "yawn" as you say. but you knew that. :)
  254. [21:59:56] <tantek> DanC, more people publish their AIM contact info than differentiate org-unit from org-name.
  255. [22:00:02] <tantek> on the Web at least.
  256. [22:00:14] <DanC> I don't doubt it.
  257. [22:00:16] <tantek> hCard creator has been evolving based on user requests of what they publish and want to publish.
  258. [22:00:39] <tantek> and the pattern of markup used in hCard creator is easy enough to extend to the other fields and properties which it doesn't currently support
  259. [22:01:56] <tantek> and re: duplicate detection, I think you are not looking hard enough.
  260. [22:02:42] <tantek> and nevermind that email addresses are also imperfect for duplicate detection, as they may indicate false duplicates over time (two things that should be different having the same email address at different points in time, e.g. witness aol.com email address re-use etc.)
  261. [22:04:13] <DanC> if two different things have foaf:mbox <mailto:foo@aol.com>, then you've got bad input data. But foaf:mbox is still mighty useful, and there's no analog in vcard
  262. [22:04:41] <DanC> worse yet url. is it an url of a page about me, or about my company?
  263. [22:04:53] <kingryan> what about UID, DanC?
  264. [22:04:54] <bewest> dunno... I've been wondering that a lot
  265. [22:05:31] <DanC> UID gives enough info; the challenge is to get people to use them.
  266. [22:05:38] <kingryan> yeah
  267. [22:05:46] <pnhChris> i dunno.. the person associated with press@company.com or webmaster.com could chagne over time.. or hundres of people could use support@company.com
  268. [22:05:51] <kingryan> but at least the technological solution is in place, its a social problem now
  269. [22:06:05] <pnhChris> (sorry.. coming in late on this one.. i'll read the rest of scrollback in a minute
  270. [22:07:25] <DanC> well, quite; the thing with foaf:mbox <webmaster@foo.com> is not likely a person, exacly. It's a role filled by various people at various times.
  271. [22:07:52] <tantek> DanC, you said: if two different things have foaf:mbox <mailto:foo@aol.com>, then you've got bad input data
  272. [22:07:53] <DanC> so you wouldn't say the same thing has foaf:mbox <webmaster@foo.com> and <johnny@foo.com>
  273. [22:07:55] <tantek> nope
  274. [22:07:58] <tantek> you've got a bad assumption
  275. [22:08:14] <tantek> person A might have dan@aol.com in 1995
  276. [22:08:20] <tantek> and then abandon their account
  277. [22:08:26] <tantek> and person B might get dan@aol.com in 2005
  278. [22:08:37] <tantek> and you have NO WAY to tell that they are two people
  279. [22:08:48] <tantek> that's not bad input data
  280. [22:08:55] <tantek> that's the reality of email addresses and services
  281. [22:09:00] <DanC> the design of foaf:mbox does not assume no email address ever gets reused.
  282. [22:09:13] <tantek> and if your system assumes otherwise, then your system has a bad assumption
  283. [22:10:26] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.static.twtelecom.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  284. [22:10:56] <tantek> the reality of duplicate detection is that it is hard
  285. [22:11:01] <tantek> and often very much domain specific
  286. [22:11:05] <bewest> "kid" looks great
  287. [22:11:14] <tantek> UID can help - if people use it
  288. [22:11:33] <tantek> ID attribute can also help - if people use it
  289. [22:11:37] <tantek> dglazkov's recent heuristics on the list will also help
  290. [22:11:39] <bewest> yeah, I thought microformats was about creating technical solutions where the social solution already exists...
  291. [22:12:06] <bewest> since it's much easier to change technology
  292. [22:12:23] <bewest> id attribute would be good since it's widely used
  293. [22:12:28] <bewest> what's this UID thing?
  294. [22:12:35] <kingryan> well, we don't always have to create the technical solution
  295. [22:12:50] <kingryan> sometimes we just have to introduce and advocate an existing technical solution
  296. [22:12:57] <bewest> kingryan: meh... semantics.. converge on it
  297. [22:12:58] <kingryan> UID = 'unique identifier'
  298. [22:12:59] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  299. [22:14:10] <tantek> UID is one of the properties in both hCard and hCalendar, from vCard and iCalendar
  300. [22:15:59] * DanC makes a test case out of hcard creator stuff... compares to output from vcardin.py ...
  301. [22:16:17] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  302. [22:16:22] <DanC> hmm... I made each contact an <li> in a <ul>.
  303. [22:16:32] <tantek> cool!
  304. [22:16:47] <briansuda> UID was also proposed to be one of the more elemental microformats that could then be used in just about anything. It was attempting to try to coordinate the usage of the URL as UID so we could "double up" and not have people try to enter two seperate properties
  305. [22:17:35] <DanC> my code isn't smart enough to do implicit N optimization. hmm.
  306. [22:18:12] <DanC> and my code puts the tel and email stuff in <ul>s, even when there's only 1. hm.
  307. [22:18:27] <bewest> briansuda: yeah, I'm reading it now
  308. [22:18:29] <DanC> hcard creator doesn't grok more than one phone number
  309. [22:19:08] <tantek> is that the right use of grok? it just doesn't have more than one phone number field
  310. [22:19:18] <tantek> you could add a fax# field if you wanted etc.
  311. [22:19:33] <DanC> my use of 'grok' was a stretch, at best
  312. [22:19:51] <bewest> hehe.. UID's mostly come in the form as a url... but if you reuse the id attribute, almost no one uses urls as the value for those attributes
  313. [22:20:15] <bewest> I don't think I've ever seen anyone put a url in an id attribute
  314. [22:20:31] <bewest> are the characters even legal?
  315. [22:20:33] * bewest checks
  316. [22:21:11] <kingryan> bewest: the idea with using @id is to join it with the url where the hcard/hcalendar item was found
  317. [22:22:07] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ("quitin' time")
  318. [22:22:26] <DanC> yeah... pgurl#id
  319. [22:23:17] * DanC used to write duplicate detection code for american cities business journals in high school... in cobol. shudderl.
  320. [22:23:26] <bewest> ok
  321. [22:24:09] <bewest> /note/ id="http://www.mysite.com/"
  322. [22:24:15] <bewest> I mean not
  323. [22:24:28] <bewest> since '/' doesn't seem to be allowed
  324. [22:31:07] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  325. [22:32:17] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  326. [22:49:14] * schepers (n=schepers@cpe-066-057-015-168.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  327. [23:05:42] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) Quit ("keep havin' fun")
  328. [23:25:53] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  329. [23:26:32] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC887799.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  330. [23:26:32] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  331. [23:26:33] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  332. [23:33:29] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@70-59-79-117.mpls.qwest.net) Quit ()
  333. [23:36:59] * cgriego (n=cgriego@out-02.hotels.com) Quit ()
  334. [23:45:46] * amette (n=amette@pD9E6AC52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #microformats
  335. [23:45:47] <jibot> amette is http://alexander-mette.de and a TikiWiki developer
  336. [23:49:59] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC887799.ipt.aol.com) Quit ()

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