IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-12-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  31. [06:04:54] <neuro`> morning
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  113. [21:22:04] <Token> Why isn't technorati.com website semantic?
  114. [21:23:09] <Token> there are an element abbr wrote wrong, <abbr title="Digital Millennium Copyright Act">DMCA</abbr> .. SHOULD BE 'acronym'
  115. [21:39:43] * tantek (n=tantek@c-71-202-121-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  116. [21:39:43] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  117. [21:44:37] * defunkt (n=cowboy@cn-sfo1-pix-natout.cnet.com) Quit ()
  118. [21:48:25] <tantek> greetings
  119. [21:49:13] <csarven> Token perhaps tantek can help you there
  120. [21:49:14] <csarven> [16:22:54] <Token> Why isn't technorati.com website semantic?
  121. [21:49:14] <csarven> [16:24:00] <Token> there are an element abbr wrote wrong, <abbr title="Digital Millennium Copyright Act">DMCA</abbr> .. SHOULD BE 'acronym'
  122. [21:50:46] <tantek> that's an acronym vs. abbr FAQ
  123. [21:50:57] <tantek> basically - acronym is not really useful
  124. [21:51:17] <tantek> just always use abbr
  125. [21:51:19] <tantek> keeps it simpler
  126. [21:51:48] <tantek> and avoids all the "what really *is* an acronym vs. just an abbreviation?" arguments
  127. [21:52:16] <tantek> anyone seen BenWard?
  128. [21:52:21] <csarven> funny you say that bceause i use acronym mostly
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  130. [21:52:46] <Token> i'm reading now... really abbr is more used
  131. [21:53:26] <Token> so, perhaps acronym will be deprecated in future
  132. [21:58:32] * BenWard (n=BenWard@86.111.176.67) has joined #microformats
  133. [21:58:50] <BenWard> 'evening all
  134. [21:59:18] <BenWard> tantek: do you have some changes you'd like adding to TWIM?
  135. [22:00:11] <tantek> Token, that's right, <acronym> was dropped/deprecated in XHTML 2.0 back in the day when I was actually on the HTML WG working on it.
  136. [22:00:15] <tantek> I think acronym is still gone
  137. [22:00:34] <tantek> so i treat it as such and never use it
  138. [22:00:38] <tantek> Hi BenWard
  139. [22:00:46] <tantek> well one big reorganizational thing which is almost complete
  140. [22:01:15] <BenWard> OK
  141. [22:01:17] <tantek> the Examples in the wild and Implementations in hCard and hCalendar have been moved to separate pages because they got too long (as their sections initially predicted might happen)
  142. [22:01:33] <tantek> I want to do hReview also
  143. [22:01:37] <BenWard> Aha, OK
  144. [22:01:57] <tantek> and then if we have time, start organizing/clustering the Examples in the Wild by general type
  145. [22:02:01] <tantek> like for hCard
  146. [22:02:05] <tantek> people, organizations
  147. [22:02:17] <tantek> individual contact pages, vs. hosting sites that have X million hCards etc.
  148. [22:03:59] <csarven> oh cool.. i can add my URL to the list for examples in the wild?
  149. [22:04:27] <csarven> did a basic hAtom yesterday
  150. [22:04:45] <csarven> not sure if it should incorporate comments as well
  151. [22:07:15] <tantek> csarven - absolutely you can add your URL to the list of examples in the wild
  152. [22:07:31] <tantek> as long as the page at that URL has markup for the microformat(s) in question
  153. [22:07:31] <csarven> i also did the hCalendar here http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite?c=fabrics_content_c&cid=1162322807925&pagename=goretex_en_US%2Ffabrics_content_c%2FKnowWhatsInside :)
  154. [22:07:56] <csarven> http://www.gore-tex.com/remote/Satellite?c=fabrics_content_c&cid=1162322807952&pagename=goretex_en_US%2Ffabrics_content_c%2FKnowWhatsInsideDetail
  155. [22:09:01] <csarven> tantek http://www.csarven.ca and http://www.csarven.ca/hiding-email-addresses for examples..
  156. [22:09:22] <csarven> im still rather confused on how hAtom is intended to be used. im only aware of the Tails extension and what technorati is doing with it
  157. [22:09:22] <tantek> csarven - very nice on all accounts!
  158. [22:09:56] <csarven> the general atom/rss if im not mistaken is mroe of a single point of entry for the feeds on the site
  159. [22:10:19] <tantek> hAtom can be used simply as an easy bootstrap for producing a feed
  160. [22:10:31] <tantek> so for all the reasons you would want a feed, you could use hAtom
  161. [22:10:40] <csarven> i dont have much experience with atom, but hAtom seems to treat any URI as a possible feed.. whether it is a single full post or a list of posts with short descriptions
  162. [22:11:01] <tantek> csarven - definitely add those URLs to the specs' examples in the wild sections that you have added microformats support for
  163. [22:11:45] <csarven> will do.. although i dont have control over what gore-tex does with them in the future. i only did the integration for the site with a few other team members
  164. [22:11:53] <tantek> it's not that hAtom seems to treat, but that hAtom *allows* you *the publisher* to treat
  165. [22:12:17] <tantek> csarven, that's ok, you can indicate what date the hCalendar support *started*
  166. [22:12:30] <csarven> oh no they took away my vcards :( on the find a store page
  167. [22:12:31] <tantek> and that way if it disappears in the future, we can at least note it in a "historical" section as having existed
  168. [22:12:50] <tantek> and perhaps people can find it in archive.org etc.
  169. [22:12:58] <tantek> consider adding links to "Add to Address Book" etc.
  170. [22:13:23] <csarven> good point. i was thinking about that for the comments where there exists vcards
  171. [22:14:20] <tantek> yes - that way there is an obvious/immediate incentive to *keep* the hCard markup
  172. [22:14:24] <tantek> similarly for hCalendar
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  174. [22:14:29] <tantek> add "Add to Calendar" links
  175. [22:14:37] <tantek> or even "Subscribe to Calendar"
  176. [22:14:53] <csarven> the user would require some extensions no?
  177. [22:14:58] <csarven> like the greasemonkey for google reader?
  178. [22:19:46] <csarven> cool at least they kept these vcards http://www.windstopper.com/remote/Satellite?c=fabrics_cont_land_c&childpagename=windstopper_en_US%2Ffabrics_cont_land_c%2FContactUs&cid=1148660507406&pagename=SessionWrapper .. but i think its not properly implemented any way
  179. [22:22:30] <tantek> the user shouldn't need any extensions
  180. [22:22:45] <tantek> you can make any page return it's hCards as vCards with the X2V services
  181. [22:22:52] <tantek> e.g. Technorati's Contacts Feed service
  182. [22:23:06] <tantek> http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/URLofPagetoconvert
  183. [22:23:13] <tantek> similarly for hCalendar to iCalendar
  184. [22:23:23] <tantek> http://feeds.technorati.com/events/URLofpagetoconvert
  185. [22:23:42] <tantek> you can even use "referer" to make it work for the refering page
  186. [22:23:52] <tantek> e.g. check out http://technorati.com/about/contact.html
  187. [22:27:05] <csarven> cool!
  188. [22:27:33] <csarven> are you guys already or would it be premature to write a crawler to look for microformats?
  189. [22:28:25] <tantek> csarven - you should go for it
  190. [22:28:29] <tantek> there are a bunch of open source parsers
  191. [22:28:32] <csarven> :)
  192. [22:28:42] <tantek> Technorati has a prototype microformats search at http://kitchen.technorati.com/
  193. [22:28:51] <tantek> Alexa has a prototype hCard crawl/search as well
  194. [22:28:58] <tantek> and I expect others to develop more as well
  195. [22:28:59] <csarven> ya but thats ping based no?
  196. [22:29:12] <tantek> Technorati's is ping based. Alexa's is crawl based.
  197. [22:29:18] <tantek> I expect to see more of both variants.
  198. [22:34:40] <csarven> hmm no relationship between hResume and HR-XML (www.hr-xml.org)
  199. [22:35:10] <csarven> i remember they were trying to standardize hr-xml cross agencies
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  201. [22:40:24] <tantek_> hr-xml is poorly designed like most XML based formats
  202. [22:40:26] <tantek_> mostly a priori / theoretical
  203. [22:40:28] <tantek_> rather than based on empirical research
  204. [22:40:30] <tantek_> classic format design mistakes
  205. [22:49:58] <csarven> whats the difference between rel="tag" and rel="tag" under hAtom?
  206. [22:53:55] * tantek (n=tantek@c-71-202-121-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  207. [22:56:00] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) Quit ("Leaving")
  208. [22:58:16] * Token (i=Token@200-158-232-172.dsl.telesp.net.br) Quit ("The 7 Deadly Sins: O sabor da nova gera��o! ��[www.t7ds.com.br]")
  209. [23:07:20] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  210. [23:07:22] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  211. [23:10:30] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
  212. [23:19:59] <BenWard> tantek: There's actually a Wiki heading in this weeks TWIM already, so shall I leave it for you to add a quick bullet on your updates when you're done?
  213. [23:20:26] <tantek> the updates are mostly done for hCard and hCalendar if you want to go ahead and add/describe those
  214. [23:21:11] <BenWard> OK. So it's refactoring of the examples and implementations pages that have been split up?
  215. [23:22:25] <BenWard> Also, does anywhere know the best source of _searchable_ archives for uf-discuss?
  216. [23:31:32] <BenWard> Searching groups.google.com/group/microformats for hCite subjects doesn't seem to being up much of the archive at all
  217. [23:37:30] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://eswat.ca | Some kind of raid boss")
  218. [23:50:11] <tantek> groups.google.com/group/microformats was only recently started, and unnecessarily duplicates the gmane archive

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