IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  5. [00:24:34] <_token> .../wiki/relpayment-research is bad write
  6. [00:25:19] <_token> who writes use "table/td/tr" in layout, and that examples do not have rel="payment" in attribute values
  7. [00:25:25] <_token> check it tantek
  8. [00:25:38] <tantek> _token - could you please add that criticism inline on the page?
  9. [00:26:12] <_token> right, i could
  10. [00:26:19] <tantek> much appreciated!
  11. [00:28:34] <_token> but how can i start a discussion on article?
  12. [00:29:21] <tantek> it's not a discussion. just put comments inline whereever there are problems in the article right next to the problems.
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  14. [00:30:54] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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  17. [00:36:50] <mfbot> [[relpayment-research]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=relpayment-research&diff=0&oldid=12003 * Token * (+352) Amazon Associates -
  18. [00:37:21] <_token> i hope be done the right thing
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  29. [01:06:56] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  43. [04:09:46] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  50. [06:47:13] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
  51. [06:48:38] <mfbot> [[events/2007-02-07-web-directions-north]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-02-07-web-directions-north&diff=0&oldid=12004 * JohnAllsopp * (+576) Summary -
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  53. [07:43:04] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) has joined #microformats
  54. [07:43:04] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  56. [08:33:34] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  57. [08:33:34] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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  62. [08:51:48] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  64. [09:07:20] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  78. [12:57:37] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  82. [13:25:07] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  90. [14:05:56] <jibot> monkinetic is redmonk/Steve Ivy and can be found at http://redmonk.net
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  95. [15:09:17] <mfbot> [[Template:currency-related-pages]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:currency-related-pages * AndyMabbett * (+108)
  96. [15:10:13] <mfbot> [[Template:currency-related-pages]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:currency-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12005 * AndyMabbett * (+75) fmt
  97. [15:10:29] <mfbot> [[Template:currency-related-pages]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:currency-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=12006 * AndyMabbett * (+9) fmt
  98. [15:11:25] <mfbot> [[currency]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency&diff=0&oldid=12007 * AndyMabbett * (-87) Related pages - made template
  99. [15:11:56] <mfbot> [[currency-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-examples&diff=0&oldid=12008 * AndyMabbett * (-47) related pages
  100. [15:13:27] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12009 * AndyMabbett * (+46) Related pages
  101. [15:14:08] <mfbot> [[currency-proposal]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-proposal&diff=0&oldid=12010 * AndyMabbett * (+46) Related pages
  102. [15:15:30] <mfbot> [[currency-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues&diff=0&oldid=12011 * AndyMabbett * (+67) Related pages & format last example
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  104. [15:17:16] <mfbot> [[currency-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues&diff=0&oldid=12012 * AndyMabbett * (+61) fmt
  105. [15:24:12] <mfbot> [[currency-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-issues&diff=0&oldid=12013 * AndyMabbett * (+161) Comment
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  107. [15:30:03] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12014 * AndyMabbett * (+202) Mike Schinkel - belated response
  108. [15:32:49] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12015 * AndyMabbett * (+70) abbr-design-pattern
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  116. [16:03:38] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  124. [16:57:39] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  128. [17:19:59] <mfbot> [[tagcloud-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tagcloud-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12016 * NicolasHoizey * (-1) the root elements -
  129. [17:21:00] <mfbot> [[tagcloud-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tagcloud-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12017 * NicolasHoizey * (+1) the root elements -
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  133. [17:45:29] <mkaply> anyone around to talk about tags?
  134. [17:46:04] <mkaply> I'm wondering if I detect errors in a rel="tag" should I use the textContent of the tag (since that seems to be what is happening)
  135. [17:56:01] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  136. [17:56:01] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  137. [17:56:01] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  138. [17:57:29] * cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-64-183-177-226.sw.biz.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  139. [17:59:30] <mkaply> tantek: I just posted this.
  140. [18:00:05] <mkaply> re: tags - I'm wondering if I detect errors in a rel="tag" should I use the textContent of the tag (since that seems to happen a fair bit)
  141. [18:00:12] <mkaply> so far blogger and wordpress seem to be broke
  142. [18:00:38] <mkaply> I'm having trouble drawing the line between being "correct" and giving users what they expect
  143. [18:15:33] * Loosive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) Quit ("http://eswat.ca - http://gmachina.com")
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  146. [18:17:22] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> from Austria (TZ: 0100)
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  148. [18:19:40] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  149. [18:30:01] <tantek> mkaply - being correct is what users expect
  150. [18:30:28] <tantek> if implementations are broken, one of the best things to do is to blog about them publicly - give each a separate blog post
  151. [18:30:43] <mkaply> ok. So far blogger is broke (on my site at least) and wordpress
  152. [18:30:56] <mkaply> The painful thing is that my blog about microformats doesn't work right in Operator :)
  153. [18:32:06] <monkinetic> I'm looking for microformat-loving Wordpress users to test a vote-link plugin... http://redmonk.net/archives/2007/01/02/voteback-update-looking-for-testers/
  154. [18:34:02] <tantek> mkaply - I totally understand - you should blog about, and be precise about what is wrong with their implementation
  155. [18:35:05] <tantek> also - add their implementation to the appropriate "Implementations" section(s) on the microformats wiki pages for those microformats, and include your list of problems (or link to your blog post!) there as well so that we as a community are aware of which implementations have problems and can apply pressure as a community for those implementations to get fixed!
  156. [18:43:52] <RobertBachmann> hello. does anybody know when Brian Suda comes around?
  157. [18:45:21] <mkaply> tantek: http://www.kaply.com/weblog/
  158. [18:47:30] <tantek> mkaply - thanks!
  159. [18:50:19] * tantek adds http://www.kaply.com/weblog/ to his Technorati Favorites: http://technorati.com/faves/tantek
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  166. [19:23:41] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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  176. [20:18:13] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=12018 * AndyMabbett * (+65) Operator - Operator author's blog
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  179. [20:24:19] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-faq&diff=0&oldid=12019 * AndyMabbett * (+46) Related pages
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  189. [20:58:47] <BobJonkman> mkaply, you still around?
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  196. [21:41:29] <mkaply> BobJonkman: yep sorry
  197. [21:42:01] <BobJonkman> s'allright...
  198. [21:42:13] <BobJonkman> Thanx for Operator, first of all...
  199. [21:43:25] <BobJonkman> On my hResume it reports a syntax error in vCards for which I have an <object> reference back to the element that contains class="n fn"
  200. [21:43:47] <BobJonkman> Is this expected behaviour since hResume isn't supported?
  201. [21:44:11] <BobJonkman> example at http://sobac.com/resume
  202. [21:45:14] <mkaply> actually, I don't handle object at all. Didn't know about that. So if the fn is empty, and the tagName is object, do a document.getElementById on the date= value and use that fn?
  203. [21:46:00] <BobJonkman> Sounds right...
  204. [21:47:13] <mkaply> ok. I'll add that now.
  205. [21:49:19] <BobJonkman> Of course, I've altered that page to avoid the error. See http://sobac.com/oldindex.htm for actual errors.
  206. [21:49:50] <mkaply> ok
  207. [21:49:59] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-171-60.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  208. [21:53:44] <BobJonkman> And for curious bystanders, have a look at the alternate stylesheet "Visible Microformats" and let me know if it's aesthetically pleasing...
  209. [21:55:27] * cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-64-183-177-226.sw.biz.rr.com) has left #Microformats
  210. [21:57:01] * mkaply things that # sign was totally unnecessary in data
  211. [21:59:18] <BobJonkman> the #vcard-name refers to the location of the vcard containing the "n fn" parts.
  212. [22:00:37] <BobJonkman> That's documented in http://microformats.org/wiki/hresume#Job_Titles
  213. [22:00:50] <BobJonkman> I >think< I've got it right...
  214. [22:03:57] * mkaply doesn't like the object spec. I think the # should refer to an ID for the other vcard, not for the indivudual items
  215. [22:04:13] <mkaply> That would be a much easier spec to follow - "any data you don't get in this vcard, get from this one"
  216. [22:05:56] <BobJonkman> I dislike the use of the <object> element, myself. Some browsers from Redmond now refuse to display that, anticipating malicious ActiveX code inside <object></object> element... sigh.
  217. [22:06:33] <mkaply> BobJonkman, Your affiliation vcards are wrong, though - they have no fn
  218. [22:07:30] <BobJonkman> That's one of the things I repaired with the aid of Operator.
  219. [22:08:12] <BobJonkman> If you like, I'll fix "fn" in oldindex.htm as well, but leave the <object> stuff
  220. [22:08:31] <mkaply> BobJonkman, nah, that's ok.
  221. [22:08:51] <mkaply> I'm really wondering why the object stuff doesn't point back to the entire vcard. I don't understand why the spec has it point to individual items.
  222. [22:09:22] <mkaply> That means that you have to have an <object> for each piece of data you want to use from another vcard
  223. [22:09:54] <mkaply> vs. a solution where you say "any data you don't find in this vcard, use this other vcard"
  224. [22:10:47] <mkaply> the tricky part is that I have no way of knowing what data is in the content that is pointed to by the object.
  225. [22:11:07] <BobJonkman> that would be true for any parser
  226. [22:11:39] <BobJonkman> so it's a weakness in the specification?
  227. [22:12:16] <mkaply> I think so. It makes implementation difficult. Here's my code now: IF I don't find an fn, look for an object. IF there is an object, do a getelementbyid on that ID.
  228. [22:13:03] <mkaply> but yet there was nothing about that object that said that the content I was looking for in the other card was an fn
  229. [22:13:43] <mkaply> the object tag seems to say "go to this vcard to get the data you need" but it doesn't point to a vcard, it points to an element in the vcard.
  230. [22:14:44] <BobJonkman> Perhaps it should be a construct like <object class="include fn" data="#vcard-name">myname</object>
  231. [22:14:44] <mkaply> What they are expecting is that you retrieve that node and treat it as if it is a member of your vcard.
  232. [22:15:09] <mkaply> but from an implementation point of view, that's non trivial
  233. [22:15:36] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  234. [22:15:45] <BobJonkman> where the class attribute on <object> has "include" plus the element that needs to be included
  235. [22:16:32] <mkaply> that would make it easier. Let me do some thinking on this. MAybe I can just duplicate the node somehow and not have it be present in the document. and use it when I am getting the data for the card
  236. [22:16:34] <BobJonkman> mkaply, I presume you're looking at http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern ?
  237. [22:17:13] <mkaply> BobJonkman: yep
  238. [22:18:49] <BobJonkman> I'll summarize our discussion, and add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/include-pattern-feedback
  239. [22:19:24] <mkaply> BobJonkman: thanks. For now I'll display the microformats in operator, but I won't be able to populate the data in the microformat yet. I have to think about that
  240. [22:19:36] <mkaply> I was planning an operator release tomorrow, so it might wait until the next release
  241. [22:20:40] * BobJonkma1 (n=John@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #microformats
  242. [22:21:21] <BobJonkma1> I hate it when that happens.
  243. [22:25:10] <mkaply> yeah. this becomes even tricker.
  244. [22:25:23] <mkaply> What if that value was a "value" type combo. hmm. thinking
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  253. [22:28:42] <mkaply> OK, got it working.
  254. [22:28:51] <mkaply> but I couldn't make it an hresume only thing
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  271. [22:43:59] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  284. [23:27:59] <mfbot> [[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12020 * AlexanderShusta * (+268) Suggested fields for inclusion -
  285. [23:33:06] <mfbot> [[User:AlexanderShusta]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:AlexanderShusta * AlexanderShusta * (+81)
  286. [23:33:22] <mfbot> [[User:AlexanderShusta]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:AlexanderShusta&diff=0&oldid=12021 * AlexanderShusta * (+3)
  287. [23:34:18] * cgriego (n=cgriego@rrcs-64-183-177-226.sw.biz.rr.com) has joined #Microformats
  288. [23:34:18] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  291. [23:47:45] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #microformats
  292. [23:47:45] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
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