IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-01-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  7. [00:12:48] <jibot> sayrer is in New York, NY
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  13. [00:56:52] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  14. [00:56:52] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  17. [01:00:22] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12273 * RobertBachmann * (-74599) Reverted edit of Zaza, changed back to last version by NTollervey
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  19. [01:01:08] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RobertBachmann * (+0) blocked "User:Zaza" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  20. [01:16:24] * bretonslivka (n=bretonsl@64.140.40.98) has joined #microformats
  21. [01:16:34] <bretonslivka> hello
  22. [01:17:00] <bretonslivka> anyone here mind having a look at a page and telling me why my hcard isn't working on x2v?
  23. [01:18:36] <bretonslivka> http://walkerfineart.dreamhosters.com
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  34. [03:56:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  35. [03:56:35] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  36. [03:57:36] <bretonslivka> Hrmn, x2v is having difficulty with html entities, I wonder if there's a wiki entry about that
  37. [03:58:46] <bretonslivka> Oh, just the uppercase was the problem.
  38. [03:58:52] <tantek> which entity?
  39. [03:59:10] <bretonslivka> it was &COPY; ,but lowercasing it seems to have fixed it
  40. [03:59:22] <bretonslivka> I'm working on making hcard work for my client's new site
  41. [03:59:34] <bretonslivka> will add to examples as soon as it goes live
  42. [04:02:05] <tantek> excellent!
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  47. [04:39:43] <csarven> is vcard for only for people that can be contacted?
  48. [04:42:03] <csarven> for instance, vcard is for people that are still alive. shouldn't there be a distinction and a status of that person? perhaps a dday (death day) :S
  49. [04:43:16] <csarven> im asking this because im wondering what happens to vcards of people that have passed away? they are still kept i would imagine, however no one really imagines to grab a vcard (if at all available) of a person that is no longer alive
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  55. [04:59:15] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
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  57. [05:15:30] <mfbot> [[criticism]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=criticism&diff=0&oldid=12274 * Tantek * (-219) removed vague emotional statement which was not actually a criticism of microformats per se
  58. [05:17:46] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=12275 * Tantek * (-35) Reverted edit of AndyMabbett, changed back to last version by Tantek
  59. [05:18:42] <mfbot> [[hcard-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-authoring&diff=0&oldid=12276 * Tantek * (-1) previous revert was to undo wordier changes which didn't add any additional relevant semantics and smelled of excessive political correctness worrying
  60. [05:31:49] <pnhChris> csarven: i would imagine it relies heavily on context.. .surely an hcard that describes the author of a review isn't sensitive to issues like that.. and would also probably have no knowledge of the course of the person's life after they left the review on the site
  61. [05:32:06] * monkinetic_ (n=steve@ip68-96-52-225.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit ("goodbye. *bamph*")
  62. [05:32:22] <pnhChris> ... same goes for most other instances I can think of
  63. [05:34:30] <csarven> pnhChris that would require the hcard to be updated just as we would assume the email on the hcard to be updated when the person's email changes
  64. [05:35:53] <csarven> on the same token, consider an hcard of da vinci
  65. [05:36:06] <pnhChris> that's probably not the right assumption either
  66. [05:36:20] <tantek> csarven, perhaps markup the wikipedia page of da vinci with hCard...
  67. [05:36:39] <pnhChris> ... or a conversation that's being reprinted
  68. [05:37:54] <csarven> tantek fair enough, however that leaves us with only the option of placing vcards of people that are alive instead of a centralized location containing the information of day of death
  69. [05:38:58] <tantek> csarven - how's that? wikipedia has the day of death for such folks
  70. [05:39:10] <pnhChris> but moving beyond the life/death issue... i think there's a lot more content on the web that isn't updated then that is... an old blog post about "Joe who works at Some Company, Inc" .. user profiles of people who don't use a site anymore and as a result don't update profiles, comments left on blogs with 3 year old URLs or email addresses
  71. [05:39:48] <tantek> a good reason to use mini-hCards in such cases that point to more definitive/expanded instances
  72. [05:40:02] <csarven> tantek right but what im saying is that how about a comment on your site where the commentor passed away (just an example)
  73. [05:40:28] <tantek> csarven - that's part of the larger problem of what do you do with personal sites of people that pass away
  74. [05:40:33] <tantek> this is not a unique problem to hCard
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  77. [05:40:46] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
  78. [05:42:00] <pnhChris> tantek: mini hcard doesn't resolve the first issue i raised of the contact info being part of the content and not simply meta-data
  79. [05:42:15] <tantek> it does
  80. [05:42:22] <tantek> a mini-hCard has only name and URL
  81. [05:42:28] <tantek> the URL can point to a personal site etc.
  82. [05:42:31] <tantek> which itself can be updated
  83. [05:42:45] <tantek> in general you don't want "simply meta-data" anyway
  84. [05:42:55] <tantek> metadata usually means invisible, which is nearly worthless
  85. [05:43:42] <pnhChris> but that requires you explictly not to mark up the other relevant information in the content
  86. [05:44:05] <tantek> what other relevant information in the content?
  87. [05:44:07] <csarven> it relates to what i stated earlier. if i have a vcard of someone and they die, i either keep their vcard around or delete it. if i keep it around thats one thing, but currently we don't 'get' vcards of people that are no longer alive. so in essence we choose to keep both alive and dead people's vcards
  88. [05:44:20] <tantek> in the examples you give, e.g. blog post comments, typical use case is name + URL
  89. [05:44:23] <pnhChris> e.g. [from your site] .. . content like.. "Thanks to immeasurable help from Ryan Kennedy of the Yahoo Mail team,"
  90. [05:44:40] <tantek> and the other easy answer is
  91. [05:44:52] <tantek> that anything inside a blog post has a datetime context
  92. [05:44:57] <tantek> thus it is never wrong
  93. [05:45:06] <pnhChris> tantek: my point of context above
  94. [05:45:08] <tantek> as in, it is an assertion of information as of that point in time of the blog post
  95. [05:45:16] <tantek> therefore, no problem
  96. [05:45:21] <tantek> no need to "update" anything
  97. [05:45:25] <tantek> because you don't update history
  98. [05:45:52] <pnhChris> i would expect the hcard on someones resume to be up to date (provided its maintained) i wouldn't in many other contexts... with or without a datetime
  99. [05:46:16] <pnhChris> [not easy to put rules to that though, just my personal expectation]
  100. [05:46:22] <tantek> i would expect a person's main hCard (e.g. their about or contact page) to be up to date
  101. [05:46:38] <tantek> it is easy to put rules to that
  102. [05:46:40] <tantek> that's my point about the blog post datetime context
  103. [05:46:48] <pnhChris> ... provided its a site that is maintained
  104. [05:46:49] <tantek> that's already all machine readable etc., through Atom/RSS or hAtom on the page
  105. [05:47:11] <tantek> "a site that is maintained" is no different than a resume that is maintained
  106. [05:47:24] <pnhChris> right
  107. [05:47:30] <KevinMarks> that is holding web publication to a highr standard than all others
  108. [05:48:33] <csarven> i was originally only referring to people that are no longer alive. should we they have hCards?
  109. [05:48:33] <tantek> anyway - i'm still not seeing what exactly is the practical problem here that is unique to hCard
  110. [05:48:49] <KevinMarks> When there was a debate about 'abandonded blogs' that stopped updateing, Dave Winer rather perceptively pointed out that by that criterion nearly all books are abandoned
  111. [05:48:54] <pnhChris> tantek: i don't see one either
  112. [05:49:20] <tantek> csarven - good question
  113. [05:49:41] <tantek> what do you do with entries in your addressbook of people that have passed away?
  114. [05:49:46] <tantek> do you keep them or delete them?
  115. [05:50:18] <csarven> i mentioned that earlier ^^
  116. [05:50:22] <pnhChris> csarven: i'd have to ask what the impact of saying that they shouldn't exist any longer would be
  117. [05:51:32] <csarven> im just trying to understand whether there is some missing information (day of death) in an hCard or if this raises some awareness on how we approach/use hCards
  118. [05:52:44] <csarven> earlier i mentioned the following; if i have a vcard of someone and they die, i either keep their vcard around or delete it. if i keep it around thats one thing, but currently we don't 'get' vcards of people that are no longer alive. so in essence we choose to keep both alive and dead people's vcards
  119. [05:53:23] * mustaqila_ (n=moose@last.fm/staff/Muz) has joined #microformats
  120. [05:53:41] <tantek> which do you do personally?
  121. [05:53:47] <pnhChris> but the context there is of your address book.. and not text online being marked up which presumably lives in a different context..
  122. [05:54:07] <csarven> fortunately that has not been the case yet, tantek :)
  123. [05:54:26] <csarven> but i would imagine it would be worthwhile to keep that hCard since it contains reasonable data that i can use
  124. [05:54:28] <pnhChris> and if it was simply an address book ap of some nature I'd think the content would be removed entirely [like it would someone being fired and being pulled from a company directory]
  125. [05:54:37] <tantek> it has for me unfortunately, and i could not bring myself to delete the entries.
  126. [05:55:20] <pnhChris> csarven: i have saved some myself... because they contain data i want to hold onto like birthdays + addresses
  127. [05:55:24] <tantek> this is also perhaps where a genealogy microformat might build upon what is in hCard
  128. [05:55:33] <csarven> exactly, therefore we have a set of hCards that are of people both alive and dead. is this sufficient? are we missing any information?
  129. [05:55:44] <tantek> that's the wrong question csarven
  130. [05:55:56] <tantek> "are we missing any information?" is the wrong approach
  131. [05:56:07] <tantek> the right approach is, what do people publish in the 80% case?
  132. [05:56:10] <tantek> and then build up to that
  133. [05:56:36] <csarven> do we need to know if that person is still alive? what if you can't remember
  134. [05:56:59] <pnhChris> i think perhaps a last updated would be relevant in this context.. because the problem of /vcards/ that i *think* you're getting at happens a TON more often to me as people change companies, move or get new phone numbers, etc.
  135. [05:58:56] <pnhChris> ...long before microformats when i open my address book and look for someone i haven't called or emailed in a while I have some expectation that the information is out of date
  136. [05:59:47] <csarven> say you want to send an invitation to all you friends in Berlin.. you look at the set of hCards you have and send a snail mail to their address (neglecting the fact that they have passed away and their families may be shocked to hear about your invitation - being careless)
  137. [06:00:29] <csarven> im sure there are numerous cases where it may be useful to know if they are still alive or not. that way you have a way to mine only the people that are alive (or dead) in your address book
  138. [06:02:37] <pnhChris> i guess what i'm having trouble getting over is why death alone is the relevant piece of information to key on.. lots of reasons why i might not want to blindly contact all contacts in Berlin ... Exes, Old boss that fired me, people who have passed, people who have moved
  139. [06:04:12] <pnhChris> ... but that is all in the context of a vcard management application...
  140. [06:04:13] <csarven> fair enough. i only brought this specific case up because i wasn't able to solve this scenario
  141. [06:04:39] <pnhChris> ... and not content that is being published on the web
  142. [06:05:49] <csarven> tantek 80/20 point taken
  143. [06:08:18] * pnhChris finds his mefi profile contact information is out of date while looking for an example of an old user profile that's being published
  144. [06:08:36] <tantek> pnhChris - heh
  145. [06:08:49] <pnhChris> so again, context
  146. [06:09:08] <tantek> csarven - the answer to what information should we worry about it is when people bring examples to light on the web that have more information to markup
  147. [06:10:01] <pnhChris> the profile pages on a corporate site I'd expect to be more up to date [both because of death or staffing changes] then i would if you were looking for all people who have edited the microformats wiki and claimed they were in Berlin
  148. [06:16:01] * pnhChris also doesn't remember spending christmas day signing up for mefi some years ago.. but that's what his profile page says
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  158. [07:23:54] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  175. [09:02:41] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  178. [09:30:51] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
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  182. [09:40:44] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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  189. [09:46:29] <jibot> Ronnos is Ron Kok, a friendly student Communication and Multimedia Design in The Netherlands
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  197. [10:53:34] <kapowaz> I'm a horrifically impatient person when it comes to things like technical specifications and documentation; generally speaking I just want to get in, do what I need, get out again.
  198. [10:54:05] <kapowaz> so when I finally find myself in the situation where I need/desire to use hCard, I find that the wiki page describing it is... well, a little dry and chewy
  199. [10:54:21] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  200. [10:54:52] <kapowaz> might it be better to prefix the spec document with something a little more practical?
  201. [10:54:56] <Ronnos> yup, that's the world of specifications :)
  202. [10:55:20] <kapowaz> Ronnos: normally I would say you are right, but the wiki spec page is the one directly linked from the front of microformats.org
  203. [10:55:36] <kapowaz> therefore it's likely to be the first page a new visitor will see on the subject
  204. [10:56:05] <Ronnos> ahhh, you want something like a small and simple introduction with maybe 2 or 3 good examples?
  205. [10:56:16] <kapowaz> I've found several
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  207. [10:56:33] <kapowaz> I just mean... given it's the first page linked from the site, should it not start off with that rather than have them as footnotes 4 pages down?
  208. [10:57:18] <Ronnos> uhuh, i think the transition from a bloglike webpage to a wikepage is maybe a little bit to big...
  209. [10:58:05] <kapowaz> yeah
  210. [10:58:45] <kapowaz> there are lots of well-written articles about microformats, but they all exist off of the microformats.org domain ;)
  211. [10:58:59] <kapowaz> Drew's hCard primer, for instance
  212. [10:59:13] <Ronnos> i also think that it might scare people off... the come from a friendly looking blogpage into a scary wiki made for developers
  213. [10:59:20] <kapowaz> indeed
  214. [10:59:30] <kapowaz> especially given that really, microformats aren't that difficult
  215. [10:59:47] <Ronnos> the look difficult because of the wikipages behind the frontpage ;)
  216. [10:59:50] <kapowaz> anyway, I would volunteer to spearhead such an effort, but I know I'm a terrible procrastinator when it comes to voluntary work
  217. [11:00:06] <kapowaz> I just thought I'd float the idea around
  218. [11:01:41] <Ronnos> well, i think it isn't a bad idea
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  221. [11:03:17] <Ronnos> i wrote something about implementing businesscards for company about pages some weeks ago in dutch, because i couldn't find much about it and the wikipages make it diffucult for beginners to make a good start
  222. [11:03:26] <kapowaz> aye
  223. [11:04:03] <kapowaz> the purpose I have for it is to convert the HTML in our email signatures to hCard, rather than the 6.5KB of cruft we've been told to use
  224. [11:04:23] <Ronnos> :)
  225. [11:12:19] <Ronnos> but again, a good basic introduction would help beginners a lot i think kapowaz
  226. [11:13:12] <kapowaz> aye
  227. [11:13:28] <kapowaz> I doubt I'm the right person to do that at any rate; I *am* still a beginner with mf
  228. [11:14:08] <kapowaz> and so; newbie question - if you want to represent certain values within a hCard but not have them visible, can you just use HTML comments, or does this prevent their parsing by hCard parsers?
  229. [11:17:37] <JMulder> Not visible to who?
  230. [11:19:32] <julianstahnke> I did a thing like that for hCalendar on last.fm. I just set the element to display: none
  231. [11:19:38] <Ronnos> you could use css to hide them, but the values still can be used because they are in the markup
  232. [11:20:16] <JMulder> Well, I assume that's the point, because why would you include them in the markup in the first place?
  233. [11:20:18] <julianstahnke> (there was no room for that info yet it was needed to disambiguate stuff should it be used in a calendar)
  234. [11:21:17] <Ronnos> uhuh, but why would you like to make an hcard with info you don't want to share...
  235. [11:21:28] <Ronnos> that's the idea behind hcards :S
  236. [11:21:46] <Ronnos> if you don't want to share certain info, don't put it in..
  237. [11:22:08] <JMulder> Well, I can imagine there are cases where you don't want to display all info to the user, but do want to it available when they're adding the hCard?
  238. [11:22:19] <JMulder> *to make it
  239. [11:23:27] <Ronnos> yep
  240. [11:30:44] <kapowaz> sorry, went afk
  241. [11:30:48] <kapowaz> display:none is probably best, yes.
  242. [11:31:14] <kapowaz> and yes, JMulder is right; that's what I want to do
  243. [11:31:50] <kapowaz> I'm wondering if there are any addons for mail clients to handle hCards in signatures?
  244. [11:32:06] <Ronnos> ah... currently not i believe
  245. [11:32:28] <kapowaz> I note that the greasemonkey script tries to do a look up based on the referring URL, which wouldn't exist in the case of a HTML email
  246. [11:32:55] <Ronnos> ehm
  247. [11:33:08] <Ronnos> maybe if you link the senders name to it?
  248. [11:33:22] <kapowaz> how do you mean?
  249. [11:33:37] <Ronnos> i'm not familiar with the greasemonkey script
  250. [11:33:44] <Ronnos> how does it work exactly?
  251. [11:34:45] <kapowaz> it recognises hCards in the markup of a document and then DOM-injects a link to suda.co.uk, which I presume converts it to vCard or some other format
  252. [11:35:08] <Ronnos> only html documents?
  253. [11:35:25] <Ronnos> it's like browser plugin?
  254. [11:35:37] <Ronnos> or does it also work in your email client?
  255. [11:35:46] <kapowaz> I noticed it was stalling when I tried the link, which I assumed was because the site was down, but it wasn't - the script appears to pass the referer in the query, which would obviously not work here (local LAN address for the HTML file)
  256. [11:36:06] <Ronnos> hm
  257. [11:36:12] <kapowaz> I've no idea, it's a script for greasemonkey, which I use in Firefox. I've no idea if there's a Thunderbird version too
  258. [11:36:51] <Ronnos> hm, sorry... can't help you with that :(
  259. [11:39:32] <Ronnos> hm, i'm not a big fan of Outlook, but the 2007 version handles and displays vcards in a very nice way \o/
  260. [11:40:42] <kapowaz> vcards or hcards?
  261. [11:40:57] <kapowaz> vcards I expect even Outlook version 1 handled :)
  262. [11:41:13] <Ronnos> vcards, they have to be converted first
  263. [11:41:21] <Ronnos> yes, but the display them also very nice :)
  264. [11:42:04] <Ronnos> better than Thunderbird :(
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  267. [12:09:05] <jibot> Keri-Henare is Keri Henare, New Zealand web standards fan living in England [http://www.kerihenare.com/]
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  275. [12:56:57] <ntoll> ?def ntoll is Nicholas Tollervey and can be found online at http://ntoll.org
  276. [12:56:57] <jibot> ntoll is Nicholas Tollervey and can be found online at http://ntoll.org
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  284. [13:50:30] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12277 * Pfefferle * (+12) shared work areas -
  285. [13:52:49] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  286. [13:53:11] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12278 * Pfefferle * (+14) shared work areas -
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  288. [13:55:39] * monkinetic (n=steve@nat-64-202-160-65.ip.secureserver.net) has joined #microformats
  289. [13:55:39] <jibot> monkinetic is redmonk is SteveIvy is Steve Ivy - http://redmonk.net
  290. [13:55:44] <monkinetic> hidy ho
  291. [14:00:10] * izo (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  292. [14:04:33] <Ronnos> a late one, santa!
  293. [14:05:17] * charles_r (n=charles_@charlesr.gotadsl.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  298. [14:17:46] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  299. [14:19:26] * izo (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  300. [14:19:55] <monkinetic> hey cool, i just realized that I can use technorati's contact feed to put a "download contact" link on my about page. :-)
  301. [14:19:57] <monkinetic> http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/http://redmonk.net/about-this-site/
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  314. [14:54:51] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) has joined #microformats
  315. [14:54:51] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
  316. [14:56:17] * keithale2ander (n=keithale@87.113.52.99) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  320. [14:57:39] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
  321. [15:06:36] * bretonslivka (n=bretonsl@64.140.40.98) has joined #microformats
  322. [15:10:43] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  323. [15:10:43] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  324. [15:17:30] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12279 * SteveIvy * (+187) New Examples - Add Steve Ivy's about page, use wiki-formatting for first h1
  325. [15:20:21] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ()
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  328. [15:28:24] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  329. [15:28:24] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk and is at (-0000 GMT) and is author of "Using Microformats" for O'Reilly [http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/microformats/]
  330. [15:28:32] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  331. [15:30:31] * monkinetic waves at briansuda
  332. [15:31:01] * briansuda waves back and installs IRC update, will be back in a minute
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  338. [15:35:18] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  339. [15:35:38] <monkinetic> me is using google reader trends to prune his rss feeds
  340. [15:35:42] <monkinetic> ugh
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  345. [15:46:17] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=12280 * Singpolyma * (+77) new question
  346. [15:48:39] * Charl (n=charlvn@net-153-111.mweb.co.za) Quit ()
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  348. [16:05:54] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-68ff86bbd838fdd8) has joined #microformats
  349. [16:05:54] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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  351. [16:12:14] * ChanServ sets mode +o drewinthehead
  352. [16:12:14] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  353. [16:13:17] <mkaply> drewinthehead: I figured out why yahoo calendar events were always getting scheduled with an extra day on the end
  354. [16:13:36] <drewinthehead> they were? :)
  355. [16:14:01] <drewinthehead> probably because Y! cal doesn't use the same inclusion rules and iCal
  356. [16:14:05] <mkaply> drewinthehead: I thought you mentioned in one of your notes that you were confused by that too - yahoo multiday events seemed to get an extra day tacked on
  357. [16:14:09] <drewinthehead> *as iCal
  358. [16:14:18] <drewinthehead> not that I recall
  359. [16:14:42] <drewinthehead> I'd never tested in that much detail ... it was a 24 hour hack, remember
  360. [16:14:44] <mkaply> No prob. Anyway. Yahoo requires that for multiday events, the second value not have a time specified - date only
  361. [16:15:01] <mkaply> if you specify an end time (any end time) it ends up with an extra day
  362. [16:15:55] <drewinthehead> sounds like a Y! bug to me
  363. [16:16:37] <drewinthehead> I'll see what I can find out ... but nice detection work!
  364. [16:17:35] <mkaply> drewinthehead: I actually got some things working a little better than upcoming. Kind of hacky though. If the duration of an event is over 24 hours, I assume it is a multiday event
  365. [16:18:24] <mkaply> For some reason upcoming doesn't make this event multiday - http://upcoming.org/event/107539/ - which I do now.
  366. [16:19:47] <drewinthehead> had you spotted the upcoming.org wiki, where you can add bug notes?
  367. [16:22:20] <mkaply> drewinthehead: I put some bug notes there and got no response, so I blogged about them and things moved fast :)
  368. [16:22:22] <mkaply> I have some contacts now
  369. [16:22:50] <drewinthehead> great ... the upcoming.org guys are good guys.
  370. [16:23:12] <mkaply> yeah. I felt bad giving them a bit of a hard time on my blog, but they were cool
  371. [16:23:28] <mkaply> next I need a good 30 boxes contact
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  373. [16:42:35] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  374. [16:47:13] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=12281 * Nikolaus * (+27) Start a microformats wiki in another language -
  375. [16:48:14] <mfbot> [[hreview]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview&diff=0&oldid=12282 * Nikolaus * (-21) Further Reading -
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  384. [17:16:57] <jibot> evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
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  388. [17:22:24] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  389. [17:22:24] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  390. [17:25:55] * dardarsauce (n=dardarsa@208.68.64.75) Quit ()
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  392. [17:39:39] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  394. [17:43:29] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  395. [17:43:38] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=12283 * Tantek * (+479) more faq instructions, moved new faq item to end on category and answered it
  396. [17:44:34] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=12284 * Tantek * (+0) oops put Q&A before related pages
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  398. [17:46:50] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  399. [17:52:16] * danja (n=danja@host247-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (" ")
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  401. [17:52:58] * shawn (n=shawn@adsl-70-132-3-177.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  402. [17:55:55] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=12285 * Full Decent * (+262) New Examples -
  403. [18:02:35] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
  404. [18:20:13] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Aav204.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  405. [18:23:17] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.38) has joined #microformats
  406. [18:23:17] <jibot> veeliam is William Lawrence <http://zaxbypass.com>
  407. [18:23:45] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120417]")
  408. [18:34:18] * stuup (n=stuup@cpc2-staf1-0-0-cust301.sol2.cable.ntl.com) Quit ("bubeye")
  409. [18:37:08] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  410. [18:37:09] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  411. [18:37:19] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  412. [18:45:48] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=12286 * ChristopheDucamp * (+642) synchro
  413. [18:50:10] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12287 * CharlesRoper * (+2241) Response by Charles Roper -
  414. [18:54:31] * danja (n=danja@80.104.220.247) Quit ()
  415. [18:56:07] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  416. [18:58:21] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  417. [18:58:21] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  418. [19:07:12] * monkinetic listens to jkeith on boagworld talk about when and where to use uFs
  419. [19:07:52] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12288 * AndyMabbett * (+1727) Response by Andy Mabbett - further responses
  420. [19:09:38] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12289 * AndyMabbett * (+52) Response by Andy Mabbett - addendum & tyops
  421. [19:11:18] <mkaply> anyone know of a page with a ton of microformats? like big page - lots of stuff
  422. [19:14:16] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-d5340f463614c87c) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  423. [19:17:51] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  424. [19:17:51] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  425. [19:17:51] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  426. [19:18:54] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12290 * AndyMabbett * (-1) Response by Andy Mabbett - fmt
  427. [19:19:08] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-eca555ffc0fdc929) has joined #microformats
  428. [19:19:27] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) Quit ()
  429. [19:31:50] * JMulder_ (n=me@ip9135c771.speed.planet.nl) has joined #microformats
  430. [19:38:51] <monkinetic> has anyone lookedinto hacking our copy of mediawiki to support uF?
  431. [19:39:16] <monkinetic> s/our copy of/the uF copy ofi/
  432. [19:49:01] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.113.52.99) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  433. [19:50:18] * JMulder (n=me@ip9135c771.speed.planet.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  434. [19:50:18] * JMulder_ is now known as JMulder
  435. [19:56:32] <mfbot> [[User:SteveIvy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:SteveIvy&diff=0&oldid=12291 * SteveIvy * (+65) Steve Ivy - add link to hcard
  436. [19:57:48] * mkaply wonders if he should put the data in parenthesis on vevents in Operator
  437. [19:57:54] <mkaply> http://www.westmidlandbirdclub.com/kidderminster/indoor.htm
  438. [19:57:59] <mkaply> has nine events with the same summary
  439. [20:01:45] * popov (n=ppopov@media.rc.edu) Quit ()
  440. [20:02:48] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  441. [20:03:58] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  442. [20:10:28] <mfbot> [[User:SteveIvy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:SteveIvy&diff=0&oldid=12292 * SteveIvy * (+139) Steve Ivy - wonder "aloud" how to hack mediawiki
  443. [20:12:06] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  444. [20:13:14] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  445. [20:13:14] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  446. [20:14:38] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  447. [20:14:47] * remi (i=remi@c75.152.27-239.clta.globetrotter.net) has joined #microformats
  448. [20:14:48] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  449. [20:17:00] * ryanlowe (n=blog@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Connection timed out)
  450. [20:21:25] * stuup (n=stuup@cpc2-staf1-0-0-cust301.sol2.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  451. [20:26:25] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12293 * CharlesRoper * (+1961) Response by Andy Mabbett -
  452. [20:28:47] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-171-60.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  453. [20:28:48] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  454. [20:29:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  455. [20:31:08] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable245.16-80-70.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  456. [20:33:42] * bretonslivka (n=bretonsl@c-67-190-186-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  457. [20:34:04] * kergoth is now known as kergoth`lunch
  458. [20:34:36] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  459. [20:35:41] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12294 * AndyMabbett * (+265) Straw man proposal - Note about envsioned usage
  460. [20:40:52] <mfbot> [[species-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=species-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12295 * AndyMabbett * (+36) Examples - reorder to clarify usage
  461. [20:44:30] * stuup (n=stuup@cpc2-staf1-0-0-cust301.sol2.cable.ntl.com) Quit ()
  462. [20:45:48] * evanpro is now known as CIA--7
  463. [20:46:17] * CIA--7 is now known as evanpro
  464. [20:47:00] * bretonslivka (n=bretonsl@c-67-190-186-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit ()
  465. [20:48:18] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
  466. [20:50:17] * stuup (n=stuup@cpc2-staf1-0-0-cust301.sol2.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  467. [20:52:49] <mfbot> [[User:SteveIvy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:SteveIvy&diff=0&oldid=12296 * AndyMabbett * (+143) response (feel free to remove if not wanted on your talk page)
  468. [20:56:25] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=12297 * AndyMabbett * (+71) Operator - Customise Operator
  469. [20:59:50] * stuup (n=stuup@cpc2-staf1-0-0-cust301.sol2.cable.ntl.com) Quit ()
  470. [21:04:14] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  471. [21:04:14] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  472. [21:04:47] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  473. [21:04:47] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  474. [21:14:29] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-eca555ffc0fdc929) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  475. [21:15:09] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  476. [21:15:26] * kergoth`lunch is now known as kergoth
  477. [21:15:28] * monkinetic rummages in mediawiki source code and mumbles incoherently
  478. [21:17:10] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  479. [21:21:22] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  480. [21:32:14] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
  481. [21:58:53] * scottjungling (n=scottjun@sjc.CSUChico.EDU) has joined #microformats
  482. [21:59:10] * scottjungling (n=scottjun@sjc.CSUChico.EDU) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  483. [21:59:26] * scottjungling (n=scottjun@sjc.CSUChico.EDU) has joined #microformats
  484. [21:59:42] * scottjungling (n=scottjun@sjc.CSUChico.EDU) Quit (Client Quit)
  485. [21:59:53] * scottjungling (n=scottjun@sjc.CSUChico.EDU) has joined #microformats
  486. [22:07:12] * ryanlowe (n=blog@CPE00045a734098-CM001225d89e7c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  487. [22:07:12] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
  488. [22:07:46] * bretonslivka (n=bretonsl@c-67-190-186-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  489. [22:14:28] * bengee (n=bengee@82.207.128.166) Quit ("Leaving")
  490. [22:14:53] * scottjungling (n=scottjun@sjc.CSUChico.EDU) Quit (Client Quit)
  491. [22:17:29] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  492. [22:17:38] * shawn (n=shawn@netblock-68-183-69-197.dslextreme.com) has joined #microformats
  493. [22:17:52] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats
  494. [22:18:32] * JMulder_ (n=me@ip9135c771.speed.planet.nl) has joined #microformats
  495. [22:23:32] * veeliam_ (n=veeliam@207.111.252.38) has joined #microformats
  496. [22:23:32] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.38) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  497. [22:31:56] * monkinetic gives up on mediawiki until a later date
  498. [22:33:44] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=12298 * AndyMabbett * (+820) Concatenating values
  499. [22:34:45] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=12299 * AndyMabbett * (-8) Concatenating values - fix
  500. [22:36:01] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=12300 * AndyMabbett * (+66) Concatenating values - clarify
  501. [22:36:17] * JMulder (n=me@ip9135c771.speed.planet.nl) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  502. [22:36:18] * JMulder_ is now known as JMulder
  503. [22:36:37] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=12301 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Concatenating values - change quotes
  504. [22:37:08] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=12302 * AndyMabbett * (-44) Concatenating values - rm. extraneous styling
  505. [22:41:19] <mfbot> [[xfn-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12303 * WizardIsHungry * (+163) Extending family relationships -
  506. [22:43:35] * Ronnos (n=chatzill@s5593d4e3.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]")
  507. [22:46:45] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=12304 * WizardIsHungry * (+99) justification or reference to previous discussion of issue please!
  508. [22:48:34] * Phae (n=phae@80-41-171-60.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  509. [22:49:20] * ntoll (n=ntoll@81-178-214-240.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
  510. [22:49:20] <jibot> ntoll is Nicholas Tollervey and can be found online at http://ntoll.org
  511. [22:50:46] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=12305 * AndyMabbett * (-2) Concatenating values - better without quotes?
  512. [22:52:38] <mfbot> [[xfn-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-faq&diff=0&oldid=12306 * Tantek * (+410) Why not use rev? Because rev should not be used. See rel-faq.
  513. [22:53:09] <mfbot> [[xfn-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=12307 * Tantek * (-176) move rev question to xfn-faq
  514. [22:56:05] * SamRose (n=chatzill@c-71-197-25-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  515. [22:56:06] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  516. [22:56:50] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=12308 * Tantek * (+95) closed theoretical issue that was getting a bit ridiculous
  517. [22:57:41] * bretonslivka (n=bretonsl@c-67-190-186-46.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit ()
  518. [23:04:04] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181017015.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  519. [23:10:21] <mfbot> [[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=12309 * AndyMabbett * (+144) grandfathered
  520. [23:11:47] <mfbot> [[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=12310 * AndyMabbett * (+39) rev: generally deprecated
  521. [23:13:23] <mfbot> [[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=12311 * AndyMabbett * (+109) deprecated
  522. [23:14:04] <mfbot> [[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=12312 * AndyMabbett * (+14) better defn
  523. [23:14:20] * izo (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  524. [23:21:33] * mustaqila_ (n=moose@last.fm/staff/Muz) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  525. [23:24:37] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  526. [23:33:11] * robos (n=robos@74.92.120.13) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  527. [23:35:26] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) Quit ()
  528. [23:37:14] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  529. [23:38:55] * mustaqila_ (n=moose@last.fm/staff/Muz) has joined #microformats
  530. [23:40:32] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
  531. [23:41:44] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-250.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  532. [23:41:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  533. [23:41:44] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  534. [23:45:39] * szaboat (n=szaboat@huwico/member/szaboat) has joined #microformats

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.