IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-05-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:10:05] * ArlequinNoir (n=user@dtmd-4db5cbf9.pool.einsundeins.de) Quit (Client Quit)
  2. [00:17:34] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  3. [00:24:57] * iand (n=iand@cpc2-nthc3-0-0-cust770.nrth.cable.ntl.com) has joined #microformats
  4. [00:24:57] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  5. [00:27:51] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  11. [01:16:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  12. [01:16:55] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  13. [01:18:28] <tantek> hey dburka
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  22. [03:20:28] <mfbot> [[User:BruceDailey]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:BruceDailey&diff=0&oldid=16717 * BruceDailey * (+0)
  23. [03:24:01] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl081-245-070.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  46. [07:33:45] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  47. [07:33:45] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  48. [07:34:14] * izo (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  49. [08:01:50] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  50. [08:01:51] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  51. [08:03:21] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@d51A5CE12.access.telenet.be) has joined #microformats
  52. [08:03:21] <jibot> ddfreyne is nothing
  53. [08:18:15] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-2b3c72e144d92d42) has joined #microformats
  54. [08:18:15] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
  55. [09:02:54] * Aubergine10 (n=chatzill@host86-141-117-126.range86-141.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  56. [09:26:47] * iand is now known as iand_away_away_a
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  58. [09:36:13] * defunkt (n=cowboy@adsl-75-6-253-163.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
  59. [09:37:48] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
  60. [09:37:48] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
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  65. [10:19:46] <mfbot> [[User talk:DanielBurka]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:DanielBurka * AndyMabbett * (+72) Welcome!
  66. [10:43:37] * ChrisHeilmann (i=bla@nat/yahoo/x-15e05dc9275d25a0) has joined #microformats
  67. [10:43:37] <jibot> ChrisHeilmann is Christian Heilmann, physically located in London and at http://wait-till-i.com
  68. [10:44:51] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-71-148.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
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  72. [11:26:47] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) Quit ("k lol plz thx bai")
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  74. [12:02:29] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  75. [12:03:56] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has joined #microformats
  76. [12:17:57] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16718 * WebOrganics * (-302) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  77. [12:18:43] <mfbot> [[User:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16719 * WebOrganics * (+0)
  78. [12:23:19] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16720 * WebOrganics * (+10) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  79. [12:26:09] * Atamido_ (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
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  82. [12:30:12] <Dogpoundz> your IRC link for the wiki takes you to ##microformats btw
  83. [12:35:11] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16721 * WebOrganics * (+246) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  84. [12:36:37] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16722 * WebOrganics * (+86) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  85. [12:37:43] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16723 * WebOrganics * (-7) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  86. [12:38:03] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  87. [12:45:59] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16724 * WebOrganics * (+22) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  88. [12:48:11] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
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  93. [12:50:30] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16725 * WebOrganics * (+89) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  94. [12:58:11] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16726 * WebOrganics * (+291) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  95. [13:15:31] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) has joined #microformats
  96. [13:16:16] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  97. [13:16:16] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  103. [14:09:39] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-429a28873b766c71) has joined #microformats
  104. [14:09:39] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  105. [14:20:05] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-71-148.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  106. [14:24:31] * ichigo (n=ichigo@chello062178051055.18.11.vie.surfer.at) has joined #microformats
  107. [14:24:31] <jibot> ichigo is Thomas Schranz, developer of http://footag.com, journal at http://suitcase.at
  108. [14:26:19] * Dogpoundz (n=archy@82-46-173-218.cable.ubr01.king.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
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  112. [14:54:56] <jibot> Kilianvalkhof is Kilian Valkhof, he makes websites and blogs at http://kilianvalkhof.com
  113. [14:58:23] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  114. [14:58:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  115. [14:58:23] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  116. [15:01:29] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) has joined #microformats
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  138. [16:13:25] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=16727 * DrErnie * (+100) New Examples - twitter
  139. [16:15:12] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=16728 * DrErnie * (+59) New Examples - better link
  140. [16:15:28] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=16729 * DrErnie * (+1) New Examples - typo
  141. [16:16:00] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abh196.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
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  145. [16:29:07] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  146. [16:29:07] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  160. [17:10:17] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  161. [17:10:17] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  162. [17:11:52] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-78-211.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  163. [17:12:08] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30.dyn.everestkc.net) has joined #microformats
  164. [17:12:08] <jibot> DanC_lap is DanC on his laptop.
  165. [17:12:36] * csarven- (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  166. [17:18:31] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16730 * JChris * (+227) question about Track Title
  167. [17:20:12] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD5BF4.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
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  169. [17:27:23] <jibot> ddfreyne is nothing
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  173. [17:52:26] <Dogpoundz> quick question, whats an arbitrary URL?
  174. [17:52:30] <Dogpoundz> source: rel="tag" is NOT designed for "tagging" arbitrary URLs or external content. There is demand for a general decentralized
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  177. [17:53:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  178. [17:53:13] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  179. [17:54:05] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable081.152-201-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  180. [17:54:05] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  181. [17:54:16] * woodss (i=w_laptop@dial-80-47-5-19.access.uk.tiscali.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  183. [18:01:54] <mfbot> [[product-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=product-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=16731 * Rvanderblom * (+283)
  184. [18:10:46] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-71-198-189-81.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  185. [18:11:30] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-0e2f109c40b903c8) has joined #microformats
  186. [18:11:30] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  187. [18:12:11] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD65C3.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
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  191. [18:23:24] <tantek> hey mkaply!
  192. [18:24:12] * kwijibo (n=keith@87.113.74.56.plusnet.pte-ag2.dyn.plus.net) has left #microformats
  193. [18:26:37] <Dogpoundz> ?def cascadingstylez is James Jeffery and will have his Website running shortly
  194. [18:26:37] <jibot> cascadingstylez is James Jeffery and will have his Website running shortly
  195. [18:26:38] <Dogpoundz> shit
  196. [18:26:39] <Dogpoundz> lol
  197. [18:27:40] * mattis2 (n=mattis^@p54BD7E17.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
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  199. [18:30:02] <tantek> in the latest Operator 0.7, in the preferences if you set "Display style" to "Microformats" then the hCard (or contacts) popup on the toolbar is missing the "Export All" menu item.
  200. [18:30:22] * dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com) has joined #microformats
  201. [18:30:26] <tantek> "Export All" only shows up if you have "Display style" set to "Actions"
  202. [18:30:28] <tantek> that seems like an omission
  203. [18:30:45] * ianloic (n=ian@71.5.56.162.ptr.us.xo.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  204. [18:34:13] <tantek> any chance 0.7.1 could include the Export All menu item in all menu modes? (for contacts, events)
  205. [18:34:55] <Dogpoundz> tantek, you the same guy that is mentioned in HTML Mastery?
  206. [18:36:50] <Dogpoundz> ",with reference to "hCard Parsing" by Tantek Celik"
  207. [18:40:31] <tantek> I am the primary author of http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing yes.
  208. [18:40:40] <tantek> what is "HTML Mastery"? URL?
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  210. [18:45:36] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD65C3.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Success)
  211. [18:53:31] <Dogpoundz> sorry tantek, was getting food. Its a book on HTML Semantics and Standards
  212. [18:54:01] <tantek> oh cool, would you say it's a good book on POSH http://microformats.org/wiki/posh ?
  213. [18:54:16] <Dogpoundz> lists all the microformats in chapter 5, thats what got me onto the subject, i ended up a microformats.org then idled here.
  214. [18:54:40] <Dogpoundz> yes tan, its definatly POSH :P
  215. [18:55:09] <tantek> excellent - could you add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/posh#POSH_Books ?
  216. [18:55:22] <Dogpoundz> yep will do :)
  217. [18:55:24] <tantek> Thanks!
  218. [18:55:39] <Dogpoundz> are you the co author of the microformats book?
  219. [18:56:25] <Dogpoundz> we have copies in Waterstones in Birmingham, UK. Gotta say it looks promising, gonna purchase on payday.
  220. [19:01:03] <mkaply> tantek: I'm working on that.
  221. [19:01:12] <mkaply> tantek: I thought the UI looked kind of strange. But I was wrong.
  222. [19:01:23] <mkaply> tantek: FYI I got my shirt. Thanks
  223. [19:01:40] <tantek> mkaply, great! thanks again for all the goodness that is Operator.
  224. [19:01:56] <tantek> Dogpoundz, no I'm not a co-author on the microformats book.
  225. [19:02:08] <tantek> John Allsopp did a wonderful job.
  226. [19:02:44] <Dogpoundz> i had a quick flick through it, i thought about running off with it, then i thought nah, support the guys that put the hard work in :P
  227. [19:02:51] <Dogpoundz> jking btw, lol.
  228. [19:07:18] <mfbot> [[posh]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=posh&diff=0&oldid=16732 * JJ * (+276) POSH Books -
  229. [19:09:07] * Dogpoundz is now known as J-J
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  234. [19:15:48] <jibot> bear is located near Philadelphia, PA and the build/release grunt for OSAF and an apprentice python hacker
  235. [19:19:41] * JJ07 (n=archy@82-46-173-218.cable.ubr01.king.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ()
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  238. [19:21:14] <mfbot> [[presentational-html]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentational-html&diff=0&oldid=16733 * MikeMontgomery * (+1)
  239. [19:21:35] * tantek (n=tantek@corp.technorati.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  240. [19:22:04] <JJ07> ?def JJ07 is James Jeffery and lives in Birmingham[UK]!
  241. [19:22:05] <jibot> JJ07 is James Jeffery and lives in Birmingham[UK]!
  242. [19:23:40] <ddfreyne> big, center, small, i, s, strike, tt, u… are those all considered presentation html?
  243. [19:24:27] <JJ07> yes.
  244. [19:25:08] <ddfreyne> what about blockquote, when used for indenting text?
  245. [19:25:14] <tantek_> yes
  246. [19:25:17] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  247. [19:25:17] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  248. [19:25:45] <ddfreyne> and p for separating text, and strong for making text bold, and h1/h2/h3/h4/... for making text bigger, and em for making text italic?
  249. [19:25:45] <JJ07> dont use blockquote to indent text.
  250. [19:25:54] <ddfreyne> JJ07: well, yes, of course.
  251. [19:27:28] * vbgunz (n=vbgunz@217-98.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  252. [19:27:29] <JJ07> hr, pre, sup, sub, i, b, strike, s, u, tt, big, small are all the most common presentational elements.
  253. [19:27:46] * bear42 (n=bear@pool-72-92-21-8.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  254. [19:29:03] <ddfreyne> basefont?
  255. [19:29:14] <ddfreyne> not directly visible, but has a presentation impact
  256. [19:29:41] <mfbot> [[presentational-html]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentational-html&diff=0&oldid=16734 * DenisDefreyne * (+91) adding some more presentational elements
  257. [19:32:02] <JJ07> <p> and <h*> are block-level elements, so if you use them to make text bigger, or add spaces it dont make them presentational elements, it would be classed as an element missused
  258. [19:32:28] <ddfreyne> same for <table> though
  259. [19:32:42] <JJ07> table is also block-level as is blockquote
  260. [19:34:14] <JJ07> BaseFont is a head element also.
  261. [19:36:11] <wzajac> dd and dt too when used improperly with dialogs to make indents on dd
  262. [19:37:08] <JJ07> DD is block-level. But it still shouldn't be classed as presentational if its being missused.
  263. [19:37:12] <mfbot> [[semantic-xhtml]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=semantic-xhtml&diff=0&oldid=16735 * DenisDefreyne * (+31) Adding a few more. Also added dl (not sure why it was missing).
  264. [19:37:22] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD4C65.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  265. [19:37:53] <JJ07> tan, i will take it to the channel :P
  266. [19:37:54] <ddfreyne> JJ07: <table> shouldn't be classed as presentational either then… any use of <table> for layout is abuse…
  267. [19:38:08] * defunkt (n=cowboy@adsl-75-7-43-114.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has left #microformats
  268. [19:38:11] <JJ07> tables for tabular data is not abuse
  269. [19:38:13] <wzajac> well, blockquote also shouldn't be classed as presentational, it's because of browser default styling
  270. [19:38:23] <ddfreyne> tables *for layout*
  271. [19:38:30] <JJ07> block-quote is block-level
  272. [19:38:52] <JJ07> tables is for tabular data, its block-level, if its being missused its still block-level just being missused
  273. [19:39:55] <ddfreyne> I'm not sure what your point is about block-level elements
  274. [19:39:57] <bewest> there's a difference between presentational authoring techniques (which misuse elements) and presentational elements
  275. [19:40:22] <bewest> you can have non-presentational elements used in a presentational authoring technique
  276. [19:40:26] <ddfreyne> both <table> and <blockquote> are not presentational, but people abuse them because of their default appearance in browsers
  277. [19:40:41] <JJ07> W3C outline what the elements are, you cannot change what W3C outline. If they are abused it does not change what they are :)
  278. [19:41:07] <bewest> although it might change what they become
  279. [19:41:19] <ddfreyne> exactly… <table> and <blockquote> aren't presentational because they're being abused
  280. [19:41:22] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-4f257f1062098948) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  281. [19:41:39] <ddfreyne> eh, that didn't sound correct
  282. [19:41:43] <wzajac> ddfreyne: you can also put <hr /> to semantic elements, because people use it for acccessibility reasons. is it abuse?
  283. [19:41:52] <JJ07> dd: table and blockquote are block-level and not presentational and nobody will ever change that
  284. [19:41:56] <tantek> bewest, both presentational authoring techniques (which misuse elements) and presentational elements can be characterized as "presentational HTML"
  285. [19:42:03] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16736 * WebOrganics * (+41) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  286. [19:42:36] <bewest> sure
  287. [19:42:39] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16737 * WebOrganics * (-1) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  288. [19:42:45] <JJ07> tantek, is it ok to take part in contributions?
  289. [19:42:51] <JJ07> on the wiki
  290. [19:43:03] <bewest> yes
  291. [19:43:03] <JJ07> i'd like to be involved if at all possible.
  292. [19:43:04] <ddfreyne> tantek: hm, wouldn't it then make more sense to divide the list of presentational elements into "pure" presentational elements (b, i, …) and "abused" presentational elements (table, blockquote, …)?
  293. [19:43:17] <bewest> JJ07: the wiki is open to everyone, although there are some conventions...
  294. [19:43:19] <tantek> hi JJ07, yes absolutely! Start with reading http://microformats.org/wiki/how-to-play
  295. [19:43:33] <tantek> ddfreyne - excellent suggestion
  296. [19:43:40] <JJ07> thanks tantek
  297. [19:44:09] <JJ07> whats the wiki link to the edit your making ddfreyne? id like to take a quick look.
  298. [19:44:15] <tantek> and I encourage you to add an entry for yourself on the to-do page http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do
  299. [19:44:31] <tantek> that lists the things you want to do or work on
  300. [19:44:38] <ddfreyne> JJ07: working on http://microformats.org/wiki/presentational-html now
  301. [19:45:00] <JJ07> tantek, ill take a look around the wiki and see what i can help out with
  302. [19:46:02] <JJ07> dd: i see what you mean about having pure presentational and abused pres..
  303. [19:47:20] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16738 * WebOrganics * (+11) playlist-track -
  304. [19:47:45] <JJ07> personally though (this is only personal) id have Block-Level, Inline, Phrase Elements, Presentational Elements, Head Elements, Document Elements. In the correct order obviously.
  305. [19:48:07] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16739 * WebOrganics * (+0) playlist-track -
  306. [19:48:33] <csarven> should rel=tag's be part of entry-content ?
  307. [19:49:09] <JJ07> csarven! Its dogpoundz from efnet :)
  308. [19:49:38] <mfbot> [[presentational-html]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentational-html&diff=0&oldid=16740 * DenisDefreyne * (+385) Splitting elements section into "Pure" and "Abused"
  309. [19:49:46] <ddfreyne> JJ07: ↑ take a look at that
  310. [19:50:17] <ddfreyne> I put <hr> in abused, but I'm not entirely sure it belongs there
  311. [19:50:48] * mattis1 (n=mattis^@p54BD7E1D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  312. [19:51:23] <wzajac> I would put <hr> in pure presentational… It's horizontal line, though
  313. [19:51:24] <ddfreyne> Heh, <hr> seems to be a presentational element that is sometimes abused as a semantic element instead
  314. [19:51:35] <ddfreyne> yeah…
  315. [19:51:35] <wzajac> Exactly.
  316. [19:52:46] <csarven> HR is not necessarily a presentational element. one can use it to logically seperate sections
  317. [19:52:46] <JJ07> right im out. bbl
  318. [19:53:05] * ianloic (n=ian@71.5.56.162.ptr.us.xo.net) has joined #microformats
  319. [19:53:12] <ddfreyne> csarven: HTML4 spec says "a horizontal line"
  320. [19:53:39] <JJ07> presentational elements are usuallay elements that change the way content looks.
  321. [19:54:03] <ddfreyne> so… <h2>Header</h2><hr><p>I want a line under my level-2 header!</p> ← that's just a line, not a separator
  322. [19:54:03] <JJ07> id say HR was presentational
  323. [19:54:44] <mfbot> [[presentational-html]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentational-html&diff=0&oldid=16741 * DenisDefreyne * (+0) hr is presentational, the HTML4 specs say so.
  324. [19:55:02] <JJ07> they do indeed.
  325. [19:55:48] <ddfreyne> I'm not sure why <br> is not always a presentational element…
  326. [19:56:16] <ddfreyne> I'm having a hard time thinking of an example in which <br> is used in a mostly non-presentational way
  327. [19:58:25] <wzajac> Forcing a line break: the BR element
  328. [19:58:35] <wzajac> Same situation as with <hr>
  329. [19:58:40] <wzajac> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#h-9.3.2.1
  330. [19:58:41] <bewest> http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/text.html#edef-BR
  331. [19:58:49] <wzajac> :)
  332. [19:59:00] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16742 * WebOrganics * (+1423) hSpiff 0.0.2 -
  333. [19:59:41] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16743 * WebOrganics * (+1)
  334. [20:00:28] <ddfreyne> I'd say <br> is pretty much always presentational
  335. [20:03:00] * dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com) has joined #microformats
  336. [20:04:57] <wzajac> agreed
  337. [20:11:04] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16744 * WebOrganics * (-39) attributes -
  338. [20:15:41] * AGraf`` (n=Ashe@213.47.199.86) Quit ("Quit")
  339. [20:16:25] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16745 * WebOrganics * (+0)
  340. [20:18:52] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16746 * WebOrganics * (+89)
  341. [20:19:17] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16747 * WebOrganics * (+1)
  342. [20:22:38] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16748 * WebOrganics * (+0)
  343. [20:25:00] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16749 * WebOrganics * (+0)
  344. [20:26:23] * ddfreyne is off — g'night!
  345. [20:26:28] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) Quit ("k lol plz thx bai")
  346. [20:27:21] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16750 * WebOrganics * (-1)
  347. [20:29:22] <mfbot> [[course-catalog-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=course-catalog-examples&diff=0&oldid=16751 * ScottWilson * (+70) XCRI - eXchanging Course-Related Information -
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  361. [21:26:34] <mfbot> [[User talk:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=16759 * WebOrganics * (-2)
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  367. [21:40:31] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@207.47.11.9.static.nextweb.net) has joined #microformats
  368. [21:40:31] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs
  369. [21:43:30] * leahculver (n=leahculv@netblock-68-183-25-15.dslextreme.com) Quit ()
  370. [21:43:57] * KevinMarks is at internet identity workshop
  371. [21:46:50] <KevinMarks> thinking about doing a speed geeking
  372. [22:00:11] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-0e2f109c40b903c8) Quit ("Leaving")
  373. [22:05:34] * ChanServ sets mode +o KevinMarks
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  375. [22:05:35] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
  376. [22:07:24] * BenWard (n=BenWard@cpc3-cmbg2-0-0-cust58.cmbg.cable.ntl.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  377. [22:13:51] * DanC_lap (n=connolly@64-126-89-30.dyn.everestkc.net) has left #microformats
  378. [22:20:46] <tantek> <br> is nearly always *purely* presentational. The few exceptions where I've seen it used in arguably semantic ways are things like poetry and lyrics, where a "line" of a song is an actual semantic distinction, and not just a presentation
  379. [22:27:13] * amir (n=Miranda@gentoo/developer/amir) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  382. [22:45:28] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  383. [22:45:28] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  392. [23:31:40] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  393. [23:32:39] * kingryan (n=kingryan@corp.technorati.com) Quit (Client Quit)
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  395. [23:38:24] * logankoester (n=Logan@c-24-34-214-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
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  398. [23:53:46] <mfbot> [[xmdp]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xmdp&diff=0&oldid=16760 * Tantek * (+19) add xmdp profile
  399. [23:54:06] * kingryan (n=kingryan@corp.technorati.com) has joined #microformats
  400. [23:54:06] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  401. [23:54:06] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  402. [23:54:09] * leahculver (n=leahculv@netblock-68-183-25-15.dslextreme.com) Quit ()
  403. [23:57:31] * bear is now known as bear_afk

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

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