IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-05-21
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:15:15] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [01:32:56] <jibot>
evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
- [01:33:04] <evanpro>
So, question
- [01:33:18] <evanpro>
Actually, no, I need to do some reading first
- [01:33:53] <evanpro>
Well, I'll go ahead and ask it
- [01:34:06] <evanpro>
It would be cool to have a microformat to identify the edit link on a wiki page
- [01:34:17] <evanpro>
perhaps 'rel="edit"'
- [01:34:46] <evanpro>
The semantics being that the tool for editing the current page is at the other end of the link
- [01:35:23] <evanpro>
Also useful for other kinds of CMS, or even blog software
- [01:35:58] <evanpro>
Use case would be special browser functionality for editing pages
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ddfreyne is nothing
- [05:23:05] <mfbot>
[[rest/ahah]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/ahah&diff=0&oldid=16866 * MikeDierken * (+321)
- [05:28:46] <mfbot>
[[rest/ahah]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/ahah&diff=0&oldid=16867 * MikeDierken * (+266)
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- [07:37:59] <jibot>
AlexanderGraf is a designer and webdeveloper from Innsbruck, Austria who writes on http://www.aetherworld.org/ and works for DERI Innsbruck (http://www.deri.org/)
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danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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- [08:00:05] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [08:04:07] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [08:05:57] <jibot>
BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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- [08:34:23] <jibot>
bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
- [08:39:27] <mfbot>
[[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=16868 * Briski * (+33)
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- [09:20:10] <mfbot>
[[hresume-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-fr&diff=0&oldid=16869 * ChristopheDucamp * (-9) Experience -
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[[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16870 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-1) Enoncé du Problème -
- [10:28:24] <mfbot>
[[kiboze-syntax-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=kiboze-syntax-fr&diff=0&oldid=16871 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-6) Qu'est-ce que Kiboze -
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- [10:36:26] <mfbot>
[[picoformats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16872 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+56) Ajout référence syntaxe BillMonk
- [10:39:12] <mfbot>
[[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=16873 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+55) BillMonk SMS syntax
- [10:41:58] <mfbot>
[[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:JeanChristopheCapelli * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+847) JeanChristopheCapelli hCard page
- [10:43:09] <mfbot>
[[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16874 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-23)
- [10:49:25] <mfbot>
[[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16875 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-193)
- [10:50:21] <mfbot>
[[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16876 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+7)
- [10:50:42] <mfbot>
[[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16877 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-181)
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- [11:46:11] <jibot>
JJ07 is James Jeffery and lives in Birmingham[UK]!
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- [12:42:41] <jibot>
Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
- [12:46:48] <mfbot>
[[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16878 * ChristopheDucamp * (+148) {{welcome-fr}} et sois sans crainte
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- [13:46:24] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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[[picoformats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16879 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+64) Twttr nanoformats]
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- [14:09:48] <mfbot>
[[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=16880 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+79) Twttr nanoformats
- [14:22:35] <mfbot>
[[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16881 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-3) Introduction -
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- [14:41:57] <jibot>
JJ07 is James Jeffery and lives in Birmingham[UK]!
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- [15:04:16] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [15:06:25] <illustir>
Could you guys go over this proposal? http://fourstarters.com/2007/05/21/openavatar-combining-openid-and-hcard/
- [15:08:26] <tantek>
illustir - hidden data is usually a bad idea
- [15:08:38] <tantek>
why not markup existing public profile information on pages with hCard and use that?
- [15:08:38] <illustir>
how do you mean?
- [15:08:44] <tantek>
display:none
- [15:09:04] <illustir>
and then link it from the openid?
- [15:09:11] <tantek>
hiding data should be avoided as any part of a proposed solution
- [15:09:26] <illustir>
(i see how hidden data does not fit into the spec)
- [15:09:29] <tantek>
why isn't the open id URL the same as that of the public profile?
- [15:09:38] <illustir>
but it is a by product of my example
- [15:09:40] <illustir>
not a requirement
- [15:09:44] <tantek>
illustir, it doesn't fit in the spec because hidden data is a bad practice in general
- [15:09:53] <illustir>
(yeah i understand)
- [15:10:05] <tantek>
i suggest you try and see what you can do with hCard alone
- [15:10:11] <tantek>
before complicating it with OpenID
- [15:10:27] <illustir>
does the concept of associating openid with hCard have merit?
- [15:10:34] <tantek>
if all you want to do is have a way for people to maintain a public profile in one location and have other tools use it, you don't actually need OpenID at all
- [15:10:45] <tantek>
yes, OpenID+hCard *does* have merit
- [15:11:01] <tantek>
but is not necessary for the problem you are trying to solve
- [15:11:15] <tantek>
all you need is public profiles with hCard
- [15:11:23] <tantek>
like those at Flickr, Technorati, Upcoming, Zooomr etc.
- [15:11:48] <JJ07>
tantek does the microformats book go into all this? just an off topic question.
- [15:12:02] <illustir>
the problem i think i'm trying to solve is to get extra information about OpenID logged in users
- [15:12:26] <illustir>
SREG is one option
- [15:14:13] <illustir>
associating it with openid seemed like a more light weight alternative
- [15:14:32] <tantek>
illustir, you should prefer/use OpenID URLs which themselves have visible hCards
- [15:14:46] <illustir>
ok
- [15:14:48] <tantek>
e.g. Technorati and Zooomr OpenID profile URLs already have hCards on them
- [15:14:53] <tantek>
that markup the visible information
- [15:15:12] <tantek>
basically, prefer higher quality/fidelity OpenID URLs over those with less (or no) information
- [15:15:20] <tantek>
and then build on that
- [15:15:33] <tantek>
to cause market pressure for other IDPs to put hCards on their OpenID URLs
- [15:15:43] <illustir>
so if i change display we're there
- [15:15:58] <illustir>
but if that is not an option would a link also be useful?
- [15:16:14] <illustir>
or do you see it as important to have that information on the openid page itself
- [15:17:48] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16882 * Tantek * (+315) created Multiple microformats section and added IMDB
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- [15:18:54] <jibot>
ddfreyne is nothing
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- [15:19:38] <tantek>
illustir it is the other way around, if a service wants to be an IDP, it should use the user's profile page as their OpenID URL
- [15:19:44] <tantek>
no need to create a separate URL
- [15:20:02] <tantek>
basically these problems (hidden data etc.) typically arise from people doing too much
- [15:20:41] <tantek>
and all services that have user profiles (and thus user profile URLs) should markup those user profiles with hCard
- [15:21:16] <illustir>
so that leaves no room for my case to have http://alper.nl as my openid url and not display an hCard on that page
- [15:23:11] <tantek>
see what I just wrote.
- [15:23:16] <tantek>
don't use a separate page
- [15:23:23] <tantek>
just use http://alper.nl/contact.html as your openid url
- [15:24:19] <tantek>
there is also the possibility of pointing from your home page to your contact page to indicate the presence of a canonical hCard for yourself
- [15:24:26] <tantek>
pointing/linking
- [15:24:44] <illustir>
i was asking about that
- [15:24:46] <illustir>
how would you link that?
- [15:24:57] <illustir>
because i quite like a short openid url
- [15:25:30] <tantek>
how to do that is still being brainstormed however, but you can take a look and see what you think of the possibilities: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Auto-Discovery
- [15:25:56] <tantek>
it's a nontrivial problem with many facets
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- [15:31:54] <illustir>
the scenario listed only goes on about data on the same page
- [15:32:05] <illustir>
not about following any links if present
- [15:32:53] <illustir>
i was thinking about something along the lines of link rel="hCard" but that might be a too bold addition
- [15:34:27] <tantek>
it doesn't capture the semantic is the problem
- [15:34:35] <tantek>
that just says the type of information
- [15:34:36] <tantek>
not the meaning
- [15:34:51] <tantek>
rel="formatname" is an anti-design-pattern
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- [15:35:46] <mfbot>
[[design-patterns]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=design-patterns&diff=0&oldid=16883 * Tantek * (+43)
- [15:38:03] <trovster>
Wouldn't you use rel="me" and use that kind of auto-discovery. but you'd need to use some 'this is prefered information' for the data
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- [15:39:17] <tantek>
trovster, you could use identity consolidation to find include other URLs as the same as the given URLs, however, that wouldn't solve the problem of pointing to a canonical hCard - what if there are multiple hCards at the various URLs?
- [15:40:37] <trovster>
You'd have to link to a unique identifier... but like you said it is a big problem
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- [15:41:16] <mfbot>
[[anti-design-patterns]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/anti-design-patterns * Tantek * (+649) drafted
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- [15:42:12] <illustir>
so you would use something like rel="contact" ?
- [15:42:37] <mfbot>
[[anti-design-patterns]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=anti-design-patterns&diff=0&oldid=16884 * Tantek * (+43)
- [15:43:53] <tantek>
illustir, that is one of the thoughts captured in the discussion - I suggest you read the whole discussion, and then check the mailing list for more follow-up, as there has been some discussion there that has yet to be captured/collected onto the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Auto-Discovery
- [15:44:40] <illustir>
okay that seems like a good idea
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- [15:47:19] <illustir>
i didn't really think it would be this easy, but i thought i'd give it a try
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- [15:51:29] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [16:12:06] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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- [16:18:37] <jibot>
mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
- [16:20:34] <mfbot>
[[anti-design-patterns-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/anti-design-patterns-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+784) sync'd
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[[design-patterns-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=design-patterns-fr&diff=0&oldid=16885 * ChristopheDucamp * (+70)
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[[hreview-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=16886 * ChristopheDucamp * (+407)
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- [18:11:58] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [18:15:24] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16887 * RyanKing * (+36) Other hReview - added summize
- [18:19:25] <mfbot>
[[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16888 * RyanKing * (+35) Online Profiles -
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- [18:29:49] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [18:46:01] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [19:23:04] <mkaply>
tantek: I added export all to microformat list in Operator. It will be at the bottom of the the names in hcard for instance
- [19:24:03] <tantek>
i wonder if it would be more user-friendly to put it at the top of the menu?
- [19:24:18] <tantek>
scrolling through 500+ congressfolk for example can be a bit tiring ;)
- [19:24:50] <mkaply>
tantek: I haven't found a good way to handle pages with a zillion microformats
- [19:25:04] <tantek>
i'm just talking about the menu item position
- [19:25:12] <tantek>
let's solve that one simple problem first
- [19:25:20] <mkaply>
alternatively I could put it at the bottom of the action popup menu
- [19:25:33] <mkaply>
So each item would have an export all. So you could get there from the first item on the menu
- [19:26:12] <tantek>
why not simply put "export all" first in the menu for contacts or events?
- [19:27:17] <mkaply>
I think that would break up the menu kind of weird. I'll try it and see what it looks like. The problem is that for the action of going to an invidual card, you'd always have to be skipping over the first item.
- [19:27:19] <mkaply>
bbiab
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- [20:01:28] <cgriego>
kingryan: any news on the profile URIs front? Is there anything I can do to help?
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- [20:13:21] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [21:25:04] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [22:07:37] <jibot>
Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
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- [22:30:41] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=16889 * Tantek * (-230) removed tel: parsing proposal to hcard-parsing as it is interoperably implemented between two parsers (X2V, Technorati kitchen hCard indexing), and has test cases
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- [22:33:07] <mfbot>
[[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=16890 * Tantek * (+955) add fax: and modem: as brainstorm proposals for tel property
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- [22:38:54] <mfbot>
[[hcard-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing&diff=0&oldid=16891 * Tantek * (+546) added tel: parsing proposal because it is interoperably implemented between two parsers (X2V, Technorati kitchen hCard indexing) per test cases in the hCard test suite, added headings to more semantic
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- [23:05:36] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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- [23:22:01] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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- [23:43:47] <jibot>
iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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