IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-05-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  3. [00:15:15] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  6. [01:32:56] <jibot> evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
  7. [01:33:04] <evanpro> So, question
  8. [01:33:18] <evanpro> Actually, no, I need to do some reading first
  9. [01:33:53] <evanpro> Well, I'll go ahead and ask it
  10. [01:34:06] <evanpro> It would be cool to have a microformat to identify the edit link on a wiki page
  11. [01:34:17] <evanpro> perhaps 'rel="edit"'
  12. [01:34:46] <evanpro> The semantics being that the tool for editing the current page is at the other end of the link
  13. [01:35:23] <evanpro> Also useful for other kinds of CMS, or even blog software
  14. [01:35:58] <evanpro> Use case would be special browser functionality for editing pages
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  27. [05:18:32] <jibot> ddfreyne is nothing
  28. [05:23:05] <mfbot> [[rest/ahah]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/ahah&diff=0&oldid=16866 * MikeDierken * (+321)
  29. [05:28:46] <mfbot> [[rest/ahah]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/ahah&diff=0&oldid=16867 * MikeDierken * (+266)
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  37. [07:37:59] <jibot> AlexanderGraf is a designer and webdeveloper from Innsbruck, Austria who writes on http://www.aetherworld.org/ and works for DERI Innsbruck (http://www.deri.org/)
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  40. [07:47:10] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  47. [08:00:05] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  51. [08:04:07] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  53. [08:05:57] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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  59. [08:34:23] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  60. [08:39:27] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=16868 * Briski * (+33)
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  62. [09:20:10] <mfbot> [[hresume-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume-fr&diff=0&oldid=16869 * ChristopheDucamp * (-9) Experience -
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  66. [10:25:23] <mfbot> [[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16870 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-1) Enoncé du Problème -
  67. [10:28:24] <mfbot> [[kiboze-syntax-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=kiboze-syntax-fr&diff=0&oldid=16871 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-6) Qu'est-ce que Kiboze -
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  69. [10:36:26] <mfbot> [[picoformats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16872 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+56) Ajout référence syntaxe BillMonk
  70. [10:39:12] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=16873 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+55) BillMonk SMS syntax
  71. [10:41:58] <mfbot> [[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:JeanChristopheCapelli * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+847) JeanChristopheCapelli hCard page
  72. [10:43:09] <mfbot> [[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16874 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-23)
  73. [10:49:25] <mfbot> [[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16875 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-193)
  74. [10:50:21] <mfbot> [[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16876 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+7)
  75. [10:50:42] <mfbot> [[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16877 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-181)
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  88. [11:46:11] <jibot> JJ07 is James Jeffery and lives in Birmingham[UK]!
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  94. [12:42:41] <jibot> Mr_Elusive is not a programmer from id but makes his home at http://eswat.ca
  95. [12:46:48] <mfbot> [[User:JeanChristopheCapelli]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:JeanChristopheCapelli&diff=0&oldid=16878 * ChristopheDucamp * (+148) {{welcome-fr}} et sois sans crainte
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  99. [13:46:24] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  102. [14:09:12] <mfbot> [[picoformats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16879 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+64) Twttr nanoformats]
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  106. [14:09:48] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=16880 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (+79) Twttr nanoformats
  107. [14:22:35] <mfbot> [[picoformats-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=16881 * JeanChristopheCapelli * (-3) Introduction -
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  113. [14:41:57] <jibot> JJ07 is James Jeffery and lives in Birmingham[UK]!
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  115. [15:04:16] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  116. [15:05:28] * illustir (n=alper@wlan-145-94-246-232.wlan.tudelft.nl) has joined #microformats
  117. [15:06:25] <illustir> Could you guys go over this proposal? http://fourstarters.com/2007/05/21/openavatar-combining-openid-and-hcard/
  118. [15:08:26] <tantek> illustir - hidden data is usually a bad idea
  119. [15:08:38] <tantek> why not markup existing public profile information on pages with hCard and use that?
  120. [15:08:38] <illustir> how do you mean?
  121. [15:08:44] <tantek> display:none
  122. [15:09:04] <illustir> and then link it from the openid?
  123. [15:09:11] <tantek> hiding data should be avoided as any part of a proposed solution
  124. [15:09:26] <illustir> (i see how hidden data does not fit into the spec)
  125. [15:09:29] <tantek> why isn't the open id URL the same as that of the public profile?
  126. [15:09:38] <illustir> but it is a by product of my example
  127. [15:09:40] <illustir> not a requirement
  128. [15:09:44] <tantek> illustir, it doesn't fit in the spec because hidden data is a bad practice in general
  129. [15:09:53] <illustir> (yeah i understand)
  130. [15:10:05] <tantek> i suggest you try and see what you can do with hCard alone
  131. [15:10:11] <tantek> before complicating it with OpenID
  132. [15:10:27] <illustir> does the concept of associating openid with hCard have merit?
  133. [15:10:34] <tantek> if all you want to do is have a way for people to maintain a public profile in one location and have other tools use it, you don't actually need OpenID at all
  134. [15:10:45] <tantek> yes, OpenID+hCard *does* have merit
  135. [15:11:01] <tantek> but is not necessary for the problem you are trying to solve
  136. [15:11:15] <tantek> all you need is public profiles with hCard
  137. [15:11:23] <tantek> like those at Flickr, Technorati, Upcoming, Zooomr etc.
  138. [15:11:48] <JJ07> tantek does the microformats book go into all this? just an off topic question.
  139. [15:12:02] <illustir> the problem i think i'm trying to solve is to get extra information about OpenID logged in users
  140. [15:12:26] <illustir> SREG is one option
  141. [15:14:13] <illustir> associating it with openid seemed like a more light weight alternative
  142. [15:14:32] <tantek> illustir, you should prefer/use OpenID URLs which themselves have visible hCards
  143. [15:14:46] <illustir> ok
  144. [15:14:48] <tantek> e.g. Technorati and Zooomr OpenID profile URLs already have hCards on them
  145. [15:14:53] <tantek> that markup the visible information
  146. [15:15:12] <tantek> basically, prefer higher quality/fidelity OpenID URLs over those with less (or no) information
  147. [15:15:20] <tantek> and then build on that
  148. [15:15:33] <tantek> to cause market pressure for other IDPs to put hCards on their OpenID URLs
  149. [15:15:43] <illustir> so if i change display we're there
  150. [15:15:58] <illustir> but if that is not an option would a link also be useful?
  151. [15:16:14] <illustir> or do you see it as important to have that information on the openid page itself
  152. [15:17:48] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16882 * Tantek * (+315) created Multiple microformats section and added IMDB
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  154. [15:18:54] <jibot> ddfreyne is nothing
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  157. [15:19:38] <tantek> illustir it is the other way around, if a service wants to be an IDP, it should use the user's profile page as their OpenID URL
  158. [15:19:44] <tantek> no need to create a separate URL
  159. [15:20:02] <tantek> basically these problems (hidden data etc.) typically arise from people doing too much
  160. [15:20:41] <tantek> and all services that have user profiles (and thus user profile URLs) should markup those user profiles with hCard
  161. [15:21:16] <illustir> so that leaves no room for my case to have http://alper.nl as my openid url and not display an hCard on that page
  162. [15:23:11] <tantek> see what I just wrote.
  163. [15:23:16] <tantek> don't use a separate page
  164. [15:23:23] <tantek> just use http://alper.nl/contact.html as your openid url
  165. [15:24:19] <tantek> there is also the possibility of pointing from your home page to your contact page to indicate the presence of a canonical hCard for yourself
  166. [15:24:26] <tantek> pointing/linking
  167. [15:24:44] <illustir> i was asking about that
  168. [15:24:46] <illustir> how would you link that?
  169. [15:24:57] <illustir> because i quite like a short openid url
  170. [15:25:30] <tantek> how to do that is still being brainstormed however, but you can take a look and see what you think of the possibilities: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Auto-Discovery
  171. [15:25:56] <tantek> it's a nontrivial problem with many facets
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  174. [15:31:54] <illustir> the scenario listed only goes on about data on the same page
  175. [15:32:05] <illustir> not about following any links if present
  176. [15:32:53] <illustir> i was thinking about something along the lines of link rel="hCard" but that might be a too bold addition
  177. [15:34:27] <tantek> it doesn't capture the semantic is the problem
  178. [15:34:35] <tantek> that just says the type of information
  179. [15:34:36] <tantek> not the meaning
  180. [15:34:51] <tantek> rel="formatname" is an anti-design-pattern
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  182. [15:35:46] <mfbot> [[design-patterns]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=design-patterns&diff=0&oldid=16883 * Tantek * (+43)
  183. [15:38:03] <trovster> Wouldn't you use rel="me" and use that kind of auto-discovery. but you'd need to use some 'this is prefered information' for the data
  184. [15:39:02] * illustir (n=alper@wlan-145-94-246-232.wlan.tudelft.nl) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  186. [15:39:17] <tantek> trovster, you could use identity consolidation to find include other URLs as the same as the given URLs, however, that wouldn't solve the problem of pointing to a canonical hCard - what if there are multiple hCards at the various URLs?
  187. [15:40:37] <trovster> You'd have to link to a unique identifier... but like you said it is a big problem
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  189. [15:41:16] <mfbot> [[anti-design-patterns]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/anti-design-patterns * Tantek * (+649) drafted
  190. [15:41:42] * ajturner (n=ajturner@c-68-42-68-205.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit ()
  191. [15:42:12] <illustir> so you would use something like rel="contact" ?
  192. [15:42:37] <mfbot> [[anti-design-patterns]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=anti-design-patterns&diff=0&oldid=16884 * Tantek * (+43)
  193. [15:43:53] <tantek> illustir, that is one of the thoughts captured in the discussion - I suggest you read the whole discussion, and then check the mailing list for more follow-up, as there has been some discussion there that has yet to be captured/collected onto the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#Auto-Discovery
  194. [15:44:40] <illustir> okay that seems like a good idea
  195. [15:44:44] * briskib (n=Miranda@gatea.mh.bbc.co.uk) Quit ("Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org")
  196. [15:47:19] <illustir> i didn't really think it would be this easy, but i thought i'd give it a try
  197. [15:48:52] * logankoester (n=Logan@c-24-34-214-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit ("http://logankoester.com")
  198. [15:51:29] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  199. [15:51:29] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  200. [15:52:19] * swerdna (n=jandrews@66-224-120-210.atgi.net) Quit ("Leaving...")
  201. [15:59:22] * iand_ (n=iand@66.120.92.34) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  203. [16:12:06] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  204. [16:12:06] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  205. [16:16:33] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-69-68.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  206. [16:18:37] * mkaply (n=mkaply@user-12lml8q.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  207. [16:18:37] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  208. [16:20:34] <mfbot> [[anti-design-patterns-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/anti-design-patterns-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+784) sync'd
  209. [16:21:33] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-286e86be6cd61ad6) Quit ("Fades out again…")
  210. [16:21:40] <mfbot> [[design-patterns-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=design-patterns-fr&diff=0&oldid=16885 * ChristopheDucamp * (+70)
  211. [16:24:36] * bear42 (n=bear@pool-72-78-5-197.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  212. [16:25:52] <mfbot> [[hreview-implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=16886 * ChristopheDucamp * (+407)
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  236. [18:11:58] * Phae (n=phae@80-43-79-41.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) has joined #microformats
  237. [18:11:58] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  238. [18:12:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  239. [18:15:24] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16887 * RyanKing * (+36) Other hReview - added summize
  240. [18:19:25] <mfbot> [[advocacy]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=advocacy&diff=0&oldid=16888 * RyanKing * (+35) Online Profiles -
  241. [18:24:46] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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  243. [18:29:49] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  244. [18:29:49] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  254. [18:46:01] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  255. [18:46:01] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  266. [19:23:04] <mkaply> tantek: I added export all to microformat list in Operator. It will be at the bottom of the the names in hcard for instance
  267. [19:24:03] <tantek> i wonder if it would be more user-friendly to put it at the top of the menu?
  268. [19:24:18] <tantek> scrolling through 500+ congressfolk for example can be a bit tiring ;)
  269. [19:24:50] <mkaply> tantek: I haven't found a good way to handle pages with a zillion microformats
  270. [19:25:04] <tantek> i'm just talking about the menu item position
  271. [19:25:12] <tantek> let's solve that one simple problem first
  272. [19:25:20] <mkaply> alternatively I could put it at the bottom of the action popup menu
  273. [19:25:33] <mkaply> So each item would have an export all. So you could get there from the first item on the menu
  274. [19:26:12] <tantek> why not simply put "export all" first in the menu for contacts or events?
  275. [19:27:17] <mkaply> I think that would break up the menu kind of weird. I'll try it and see what it looks like. The problem is that for the action of going to an invidual card, you'd always have to be skipping over the first item.
  276. [19:27:19] <mkaply> bbiab
  277. [19:29:19] * dbaron (n=dbaron@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
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  290. [20:01:28] <cgriego> kingryan: any news on the profile URIs front? Is there anything I can do to help?
  291. [20:04:07] * danja (n=danja@host216-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
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  294. [20:13:21] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  295. [20:13:21] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  296. [20:37:25] * Prometheus^ (n=Promethe@cs181170022.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
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  305. [21:25:04] * Faye is now known as Phae
  306. [21:25:04] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  307. [21:25:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
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  317. [22:07:37] * Hixie (n=ianh@trivini.no) has joined #microformats
  318. [22:07:37] <jibot> Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
  319. [22:17:43] * SamRose (n=SamRose@c-24-11-75-115.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
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  325. [22:30:41] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=16889 * Tantek * (-230) removed tel: parsing proposal to hcard-parsing as it is interoperably implemented between two parsers (X2V, Technorati kitchen hCard indexing), and has test cases
  326. [22:30:50] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-95-60.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  327. [22:33:07] <mfbot> [[hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=16890 * Tantek * (+955) add fax: and modem: as brainstorm proposals for tel property
  328. [22:35:53] * SamRose (n=SamRose@c-24-11-75-115.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) Quit ()
  329. [22:38:54] <mfbot> [[hcard-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-parsing&diff=0&oldid=16891 * Tantek * (+546) added tel: parsing proposal because it is interoperably implemented between two parsers (X2V, Technorati kitchen hCard indexing) per test cases in the hCard test suite, added headings to more semantic
  330. [22:44:25] * danja (n=danja@host216-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (" kerplunk")
  331. [22:48:12] * illustir (n=alper@c529c7a69.cable.wanadoo.nl) Quit ()
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  333. [23:05:36] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  334. [23:05:36] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
  335. [23:12:13] * factoryjoe (n=factoryj@adsl-71-138-44-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  336. [23:18:38] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-151-1-95-60.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit ()
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  339. [23:22:01] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  347. [23:43:47] * iand (n=iand@66.120.92.34) has joined #microformats
  348. [23:43:47] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.