IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-09-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:14:23] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  2. [00:28:52] * tantek (n=tantek@38.114.142.18) has joined #microformats
  3. [00:28:52] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  4. [00:28:52] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  5. [00:35:13] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-71-204-145-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  6. [00:46:02] * tantek_ (n=tantek@38.114.142.28) has joined #microformats
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  8. [00:54:07] * pembertona (n=pemberto@c-24-125-188-195.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  9. [00:54:07] <jibot> pembertona is Andy Pemberton and is online at www.andypemberton.com
  10. [01:02:58] * pembertona (n=pemberto@c-24-125-188-195.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  11. [01:03:21] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  12. [01:03:21] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather
  13. [01:19:37] * pembertona (n=pemberto@c-24-125-188-195.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  14. [01:19:37] <jibot> pembertona is Andy Pemberton and is online at www.andypemberton.com
  15. [01:49:21] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-71-204-145-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  16. [01:52:52] * tantek_ (n=tantek@38.114.142.28) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  17. [02:08:14] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  18. [02:17:30] * jnbdz (n=chatzill@bas1-montrealak-1128692948.dsl.bell.ca) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  19. [02:26:18] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-71-204-145-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  20. [02:48:28] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  21. [02:48:28] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather
  22. [03:00:28] * vant (n=vant@p2043-ipbf2706marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #microformats
  23. [03:10:52] * pembertona (n=pemberto@c-24-125-188-195.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit ()
  24. [03:54:24] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  25. [03:54:24] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  26. [03:54:24] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  27. [04:48:04] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-71-204-145-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  28. [05:54:53] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  29. [06:01:51] * bengee (n=bengee@ip223.209.reserved.ish.de) has joined #microformats
  30. [06:01:52] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  31. [06:34:38] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  32. [06:52:47] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
  33. [06:52:47] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  34. [07:31:09] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  35. [07:34:59] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  36. [08:04:07] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  37. [08:14:06] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has left #microformats
  38. [08:14:22] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  39. [08:14:41] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  40. [08:14:41] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  41. [08:15:05] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  42. [08:16:38] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has left #microformats
  43. [08:16:57] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  44. [08:25:39] * mefisto (n=mefisto|@213.175.120.26) has joined #microformats
  45. [08:27:45] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-6f6ea5dc4bbd37d3) has joined #microformats
  46. [08:27:45] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
  47. [08:35:49] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-20-191.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  48. [08:47:40] * Naflol91 (i=sdei@gateway/tor/x-0bf7c096fb422126) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  49. [09:14:36] * Naflol91 (i=sdei@gateway/tor/x-e60e97e799e98b68) has joined #microformats
  50. [09:18:37] * mattis1 (n=mattis^@p54BD760F.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  51. [09:20:27] * mattis2 (n=mattis^@p54BD5F2D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  52. [09:35:17] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD6197.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  53. [09:36:44] * mattis1 (n=mattis^@p54BD760F.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  54. [09:40:29] * Naflol91 (i=sdei@gateway/tor/x-e60e97e799e98b68) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  55. [09:56:03] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  56. [09:56:04] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  57. [09:57:30] * tback_ is now known as tback
  58. [10:34:04] * illustir (n=alper@c51448e84.cable.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  59. [11:22:10] * illustir (n=alper@c51448e84.cable.wanadoo.nl) has left #microformats
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  61. [11:22:14] * illustir (n=alper@c51448e84.cable.wanadoo.nl) has left #microformats
  62. [11:22:17] * illustir (n=alper@c51448e84.cable.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
  63. [11:56:33] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  64. [11:56:33] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  65. [11:58:01] * tback_ is now known as tback
  66. [12:03:53] * illustir (n=alper@c51448e84.cable.wanadoo.nl) Quit ()
  67. [12:26:35] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has joined #microformats
  68. [12:43:59] * iand_ (n=iand@62.172.77.82) has joined #microformats
  69. [12:43:59] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  70. [12:43:59] <jibot> pembertona is Andy Pemberton and is online at www.andypemberton.com
  71. [12:46:34] * BenneWarde (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-e77680b5bfa7c07f) has joined #microformats
  72. [12:47:08] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-6f6ea5dc4bbd37d3) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  73. [12:47:09] * iand (n=iand@62.172.77.82) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  74. [13:06:35] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-7fb09e37db4b6943) has joined #microformats
  75. [13:06:35] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
  76. [13:07:50] * BenneWarde (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-e77680b5bfa7c07f) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  77. [13:12:51] * nerddeluxe (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-7-252.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  78. [13:15:54] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  79. [13:16:11] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  80. [13:21:15] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-20-191.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  81. [13:23:36] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  82. [13:23:36] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  83. [13:28:20] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-137-237-196.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("Don't touch /dev/null…")
  84. [13:29:33] * illustir (n=alper@193.172.20.237) has joined #microformats
  85. [13:31:22] * iand_ is now known as iand
  86. [13:39:21] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  87. [13:39:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  88. [13:39:21] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  89. [13:48:35] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
  90. [13:48:35] <jibot> McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
  91. [13:48:41] <McNulty> Hi guys
  92. [13:49:03] <McNulty> Is anyone aware of any work being done on marking up games network IDs?
  93. [13:49:13] <McNulty> i.e. Xbox Live, Wii numbers, etc?
  94. [13:49:46] * nerddeluxe (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-7-252.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  95. [13:50:04] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-7-252.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  96. [13:50:26] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-7-252.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  97. [13:50:43] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-7-252.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  98. [14:07:25] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  99. [14:07:26] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  100. [14:07:26] <jibot> pembertona is Andy Pemberton and is online at www.andypemberton.com
  101. [14:11:17] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has left #microformats
  102. [14:26:14] * mattis2 (n=mattis^@p54BD5F2D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  103. [14:29:06] * illustir (n=alper@193.172.20.237) Quit ()
  104. [14:33:18] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD5F2D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
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  106. [14:58:20] * illustir (n=alper@193.172.20.237) has joined #microformats
  107. [14:59:44] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  108. [15:07:21] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  109. [15:07:21] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  110. [15:11:22] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  111. [15:16:14] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  112. [15:17:06] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-137-237-196.range86-137.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  113. [15:17:06] <jibot> gsnedders is a mad teenager from Scotland who occasionally blogs at <http://geoffers.uni.cc/>
  114. [15:19:26] * vant (n=vant@p2043-ipbf2706marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) Quit ("Leaving...")
  115. [15:23:13] * Naflol91 (i=sdei@gateway/tor/x-a2121e93229f3107) has joined #microformats
  116. [15:34:06] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@c-76-102-254-252.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  117. [15:34:58] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  118. [15:58:53] * illustir (n=alper@193.172.20.237) Quit ()
  119. [16:01:48] * illustir (n=alper@193.172.20.237) has joined #microformats
  120. [16:02:31] * illustir (n=alper@193.172.20.237) Quit (Client Quit)
  121. [16:14:54] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  122. [16:20:46] * tantek (n=tantek@64-60-251-142.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #microformats
  123. [16:20:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  124. [16:20:46] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  125. [16:20:53] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD5F2D.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ("Leaving.")
  126. [16:33:41] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
  127. [16:41:54] * tommorris (n=tom@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net) has joined #microformats
  128. [17:00:24] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  129. [17:01:10] <BenWard> Have Wiki edits stopped showing up in #microformats?
  130. [17:17:17] * tback_ (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  131. [17:17:17] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  132. [17:18:45] * tback_ is now known as tback
  133. [17:22:36] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-0cb939ff05b5d100) has joined #microformats
  134. [17:24:10] * bergie (n=bergie@cs181223139.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  135. [17:24:10] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  136. [17:32:36] * bengee (n=bengee@ip223.209.reserved.ish.de) Quit ("Leaving")
  137. [17:33:57] * tantek_ (n=tantek@64-60-251-146.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #microformats
  138. [17:35:16] <tantek_> BenWard, it looks like it
  139. [17:35:30] <tantek_> poke Ryan King when he gets back on line to restart mfbot
  140. [17:36:04] <BenWard> Will do
  141. [17:41:10] * tantek_ (n=tantek@64-60-251-146.static-ip.telepacific.net) Quit ()
  142. [17:45:22] * tantek (n=tantek@64-60-251-142.static-ip.telepacific.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  143. [17:58:06] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) has joined #microformats
  144. [17:58:06] <jibot> ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
  145. [17:59:02] * mefisto (n=mefisto|@213.175.120.26) Quit ("Leaving")
  146. [17:59:40] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@dslb-088-073-115-195.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  147. [18:15:16] * tantek (n=tantek@66-7-230-34.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #microformats
  148. [18:15:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  149. [18:15:16] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org> and Mr. Microformats
  150. [18:21:00] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@dslb-088-073-115-195.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  151. [18:22:40] * blakestar (n=blakesta@cpe-76-185-113-212.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  152. [18:22:40] <jibot> blakestar is Feeling mashed up after BarCamp and MashPit Dallas
  153. [18:23:15] * blakestar (n=blakesta@cpe-76-185-113-212.tx.res.rr.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  154. [18:23:33] * blakestar (n=blakesta@cpe-76-185-113-212.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  155. [18:24:27] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@dslb-088-073-115-195.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #microformats
  156. [18:38:59] * kingryan (n=kingryan@corp.technorati.com) has joined #microformats
  157. [18:38:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  158. [18:38:59] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  159. [18:40:17] <tantek> kingryan, mfbot needs restarting
  160. [18:41:04] * mfbot (n=mfbot@69.55.232.130) has joined #microformats
  161. [18:41:04] <jibot> mfbot is a little bot kingryan put together with pieces from mediawiki to report on wiki changes and http://microformats.org/wiki/mfbot
  162. [18:41:16] <kingryan> hmm, it was running but unresponsive
  163. [18:44:32] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  164. [18:44:32] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  165. [18:51:32] * tback (n=tback@dialin-212-144-050-250.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit ()
  166. [19:04:12] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  167. [19:10:32] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@dslb-088-073-115-195.pools.arcor-ip.net) Quit ("Leaving.")
  168. [19:12:27] <mfbot> [[Talk:Rel-Tag]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:Rel-Tag * AsnAp7 * (+10133)
  169. [19:13:08] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  170. [19:13:08] <jibot> pembertona is Andy Pemberton and is online at www.andypemberton.com
  171. [19:13:23] <mfbot> [[Talk:hreview-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hreview-fr * PntFpa * (+17130)
  172. [19:19:36] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:Rel-Tag": spam
  173. [19:19:52] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:AsnAp7" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
  174. [19:20:08] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:hreview-fr": spam
  175. [19:20:14] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:PntFpa" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
  176. [19:23:41] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  177. [19:24:32] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  178. [19:24:56] * mefisto (n=mefisto|@zelli-kojas.lanet.lv) has joined #microformats
  179. [19:29:15] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  180. [19:29:15] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  181. [19:31:07] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-7fb09e37db4b6943) Quit ("Fades out again…")
  182. [19:31:41] * tantek_ (n=tantek@66-7-230-34.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #microformats
  183. [19:32:46] * tantek (n=tantek@66-7-230-34.static-ip.telepacific.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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  188. [20:02:56] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability-faq&diff=0&oldid=21463 * Tantek * (+975) added initial form fill vs. update of info problem
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  191. [20:06:53] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=21464 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) Est-que le Web lui-même est un réseau social -
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  194. [20:18:04] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=21465 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) grammar
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  206. [20:46:38] <jibot> jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
  207. [20:46:51] <jimbojw> jibot: i love you
  208. [20:47:47] <jimbojw> i just sent an email to the [uf-discuss] list regarding an email titled "Storing Microformats" - it appears my email has bounced - can anyone confirm that they got it (or didn't)?
  209. [20:48:57] * mefisto (n=mefisto|@zelli-kojas.lanet.lv) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  210. [20:50:41] <mfbot> [[Talk:hcalendar-faq-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hcalendar-faq-fr * YklRin * (+17636)
  211. [20:50:47] <bewest> jimbojw: recieved
  212. [20:51:14] <jimbojw> thanks bewest
  213. [20:51:26] <bewest> jimbojw: I'm interested in your operator for IE
  214. [20:51:34] <jimbojw> oh, that's not mine
  215. [20:51:40] <bewest> oh
  216. [20:51:42] <jimbojw> i was just responding to him
  217. [20:51:47] * mefisto (n=mefisto|@zelli-kojas.lanet.lv) has joined #microformats
  218. [20:51:52] <jimbojw> yeah - i think my response bounced
  219. [20:51:55] <bewest> hmm
  220. [20:52:00] <bewest> yeah, I only see one message in that thread
  221. [20:52:11] <jimbojw> ok thanks - I'll try to resend :/
  222. [20:53:46] <jimbojw> oh i see - I'm getting the "The message's content type was not explicitly allowed" error - need to tell gmail to plaintext it
  223. [20:55:13] <jimbojw> resent
  224. [20:55:42] <jimbojw> i'm very interested in microformats from a new-development perspecive
  225. [20:56:14] <jimbojw> that is, how one can publish a new format, and how can we have readers that are pluggable with respect to understanding new ones
  226. [20:56:34] <bewest> new microformats?
  227. [20:56:34] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  228. [20:56:50] <jimbojw> right - ones that nobody has thought of
  229. [20:57:08] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  230. [20:57:08] <jibot> pembertona is Andy Pemberton and is online at www.andypemberton.com
  231. [20:57:09] <bewest> there is a series of steps to go through publishing a new microformat collectively known as "the process"
  232. [20:57:15] <jimbojw> yeah
  233. [20:58:08] <jimbojw> that's all well and good for the "official" ones
  234. [20:58:12] <bewest> it's documented on the wiki at http://microformats.org/wiki/process
  235. [20:58:19] <jimbojw> yeah
  236. [20:58:21] <bewest> ah.... you mean like a cookbook for POSH techniques?
  237. [20:58:46] <bewest> POSH Cookbook
  238. [20:59:06] <jimbojw> kind of - really what I want to be able to do is create a brand new format and distribute a little plugin/module whatever that can read just that format
  239. [20:59:27] <bewest> so a POSH -> datastructure mapping
  240. [20:59:41] <bewest> and a framework to do it in
  241. [20:59:42] <jimbojw> yes - precicely (and more eloquently then what I was saying :) )
  242. [21:00:05] <bewest> there are a number of implementations that have sought to do that kind of thing with microformats
  243. [21:00:28] <bewest> because you can basically get a list of xpaths of process all of them and then see what you get at the end
  244. [21:00:43] <jimbojw> yeah - xpath would be a good choice
  245. [21:00:50] <bewest> so there are a number of "nearly universal microformat parser" implementations
  246. [21:01:49] <jimbojw> it would appear that this concept has already ben given much thought
  247. [21:02:03] * pembertona_ (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  248. [21:03:30] <jimbojw> having "the process" is ok - it's nice to have a canon of widely accepted formats, and in addition, I think the idea of allowing community spawned formats is also positive
  249. [21:04:06] <jimbojw> the problem with the latter is (of course) a matter of parsing and semantics - what xhtml means what
  250. [21:04:16] <jimbojw> and how do you distribute those mappings
  251. [21:04:40] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD5F2D.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
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  253. [21:04:56] <jimbojw> whereas with the official set, it's understood that implementors will have covered them
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  264. [21:31:39] <kingryan> jimbojw: how are "canoical formats" different from "community spawned formats" in the context of microformats?
  265. [21:31:42] * pembertona (n=pemberto@24.75.129.137) has joined #microformats
  266. [21:31:42] <jibot> pembertona is Andy Pemberton and is online at www.andypemberton.com
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  268. [21:37:35] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
  269. [21:37:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  270. [21:41:08] <jimbojw> kingryan: i may be choosing the wrong words, but I'm trying to distinguish between those formats which have been through the process and those that have not
  271. [21:46:13] * veeliam (n=veeliam@207.111.252.10) has joined #microformats
  272. [21:46:17] <jimbojw> i'm an ubuntu user, so an analogy that works for me is this: it's great that there's a standard set of servers for the operating system's packages (those that come in the default sources.list file), however, it's also great that the packaging system permits developers to release their own "unapproved" pacakges
  273. [21:46:48] <hober> Anybody can write up their own POSH techniques
  274. [21:47:41] <jimbojw> yeah - maybe that's my problem, that I equate the concept of using semantically appropriate classes with microformats, when really I suppose the term POSH is better
  275. [21:48:00] <jimbojw> though POSH also encapsulates best practices like doing away with anorexic anchors etc
  276. [21:48:29] <kingryan> jimbojw: things that haven't been through the process probably can't be called microformats
  277. [21:48:38] <kingryan> it's just semantic markup, aka POSH
  278. [21:48:55] <jimbojw> that makes sense
  279. [21:48:57] * tantek (n=tantek@64-60-251-170.static-ip.telepacific.net) has joined #microformats
  280. [21:48:57] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  281. [21:48:57] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org> and Mr. Microformats
  282. [21:49:05] <kingryan> jimbojw: the confusion between "semantic class names" and "microformats" is the reason the term POSH was invented
  283. [21:49:17] <jimbojw> ah - i was unaware of that
  284. [21:49:36] <kingryan> before mf's it was just "semantic markup" or "semantic xhtml", but the microformat meme kinda overtook that meme and overshadowed it
  285. [21:50:04] <kingryan> meanwhile, the very *idea* of microformats is based on the idea of basic semantic markup
  286. [21:50:48] <jimbojw> right - I've been a proponent of semantic markup for a while now, and more recently posh
  287. [21:51:17] <jimbojw> the fact that microformats are a standardized subset of all possible semantic markup (which has been through the process) is what I was missing
  288. [21:52:48] <hober> I think it's important to say also that microformats are the product the microformats community produces by following the microformats process
  289. [21:53:18] <hober> So, for instance, some other community could follow the microformats process, but the products of their effort shouldn't, arguably, be called microformats
  290. [21:53:40] <hober> it's this coupling of community and process which is key
  291. [21:54:02] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  292. [21:54:30] <hober> hmmm. Maybe it's a 3-tuple of principles, community, and process.
  293. [21:57:55] <tantek> 80/20 publishing
  294. [21:58:54] <tantek> oops wrong channel ;)
  295. [22:00:17] <kingryan> tantek: you sure? :)
  296. [22:00:48] <hober> heh
  297. [22:01:33] <tantek> too true
  298. [22:05:55] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  299. [22:05:55] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  300. [22:07:24] <jimbojw> hober: the three P's of microformats: principles, people and process
  301. [22:08:41] * Hixie_ (i=ianh@trivini.no) has joined #microformats
  302. [22:08:43] <tommorris> There is a middle ground between POSH and microformats - that's "parseable formats with deeper meaning" - domain-specific microformats etc.
  303. [22:09:32] <tommorris> Basically microformats that haven't gone through The Process.
  304. [22:10:06] <tommorris> There is unfortunately a lack of a decent phrase to describe these.
  305. [22:10:29] <bewest> tommorris: I think we're calling all of that POSH
  306. [22:11:22] <tommorris> Okay, but there is a difference between following the semantic rules of (X)HTML and coming up with a sort of quasi-format type thing, like a microformat, but not endorsed by microformats.org
  307. [22:12:04] <tommorris> Capital-M Microformats and lower-case microformats? ;)
  308. [22:12:09] * Hixie (i=ianh@trivini.no) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  309. [22:12:49] <jimbojw> tommorris: agreed - this is what I need, a buzz-term meaning "semantically correct XHTML with meaning"
  310. [22:13:07] <jimbojw> i thought microformats was that - which is what started this whole confusion :)
  311. [22:13:14] <jimbojw> nanoformats
  312. [22:13:18] <jimbojw> (tm)
  313. [22:13:37] <tommorris> I suggested macroformats a while back, but the potential for user-generated confusion was too high.
  314. [22:14:15] <jimbojw> well, i can see how that might be confusing - since the word "macro" means both big AND programmatic (like text-editor macros)
  315. [22:14:17] <tommorris> Something like 'semantic data patterns' or 'embedded semantic data' or something like that. Just waiting for someone to have an Archimedes moment.
  316. [22:14:49] <kingryan> jimbojw: re:"semantically correct XHTML with meaning", POSH has meaning
  317. [22:15:35] <jimbojw> kingryan: yeah, but POSH means more than what we're looking for - POSH also means "no tables for tabular data" and "no <b> tags"
  318. [22:15:55] <tommorris> The HTML semantics are not detailed enough to extract data from.
  319. [22:15:59] <tommorris> Hence the need for microformats.
  320. [22:16:00] <bewest> I think "POSH" is exactly what you want
  321. [22:16:21] <kingryan> if something is valueable enough to want to extract data, it should go through the process
  322. [22:16:26] <tommorris> <address>John Smith, 24 Foo Street, Foocity</address> vs. hCard. Parsing!
  323. [22:16:48] <kingryan> tommorris: my point exactly, there's should be a microformat for that :)
  324. [22:17:24] <jimbojw> kingryan: i disagree - i think there are trivial bits of semantic data that might not make it through the process, but nevertheless are interesting to somebody out there
  325. [22:17:51] <kingryan> jimbojw: example?
  326. [22:18:01] <tommorris> Absolutley. That's why I'm a big proponent of GRDDL - to mop up all the other bits and pieces that a core set of microformats won't deal with.
  327. [22:18:12] <tantek> "interesting to somebody" is not sufficient justification. gotta be 80/20 to be worth it.
  328. [22:18:37] <tantek> or rather, is less worth it for the community to spend time on vs. the stuff that more people publish / consume
  329. [22:19:01] <tommorris> That's not so. When people published RSS feeds, they had no idea that something like Pipes would come along. It has no clear design purpose.
  330. [22:19:05] <jimbojw> usually I don't do the example thing, because any example can be debated all day, sidetracking from the original discussion, however, I can think of a few examples (which I am not prepared to defend in great detail)
  331. [22:19:46] <tommorris> It's just a sort of "there's all this miscellany here, but because it's in a *reasonably* well ordered heap, we can do things with it".
  332. [22:19:59] <jimbojw> example 1: joke formats - I really want a "universal faction" *croformat which has two possible values, "ninja" and "pirate"
  333. [22:20:17] <kingryan> jimbojw: why not just use tags?
  334. [22:20:18] <jimbojw> tommorris: agreed
  335. [22:20:48] <jimbojw> kingryan: well, yeah, this stuff is all "tags" per se
  336. [22:21:02] <kingryan> jimbojw: I mean specifically rel-tag
  337. [22:21:08] <tommorris> jimbojw: You ought to consider GRDDL as a way of attaching specific meaning to HTML.
  338. [22:21:12] * Phae (n=phae@82-44-60-36.cable.ubr01.mort.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22")
  339. [22:21:30] <tommorris> e.g. http://tommorris.org/profiles/nsfw
  340. [22:21:47] <jimbojw> kingryan: ah i see - ok, different joke format: Magic The Gathering(tm) card stats
  341. [22:22:03] <kingryan> jimbojw: xoxo?
  342. [22:22:08] <kingryan> semantic tables?
  343. [22:22:28] <jimbojw> see, and this is why I don't play the examples game ;)
  344. [22:23:01] <tommorris> Well, that doesn't exactly solve the problem though. Presumably you want a way of easily parsing the data back out of XOXO or a table.
  345. [22:23:11] <kingryan> well, if we don't talk about examples, we just go on forever about "it'd be nice to have" and "there are things somewhere that someone wants"
  346. [22:23:22] <jimbojw> all I want is a term
  347. [22:23:22] <kingryan> tommorris: there are xoxo parsers
  348. [22:23:43] <tommorris> Yep, I know. But XOXO doesn't get you the full semantic meaning of "This is a Magic: The Gathering card".
  349. [22:23:52] <jimbojw> tommorris: +1
  350. [22:24:52] <tommorris> The approach I see is not an alternative to microformats, it's using GRDDL to provide user extensions to existing POSH and microformats.
  351. [22:25:42] <tommorris> Simple example that uses only microformats. Make an hcard, put a rel-tag inside it linking to your dietary preferences. The tag would be something like "Vegan" or "Ovo-lacto_vegetarian".
  352. [22:26:09] <tommorris> There's an RDF schema out there called VegetarianOntology that describes all those. Describe a transform to do that.
  353. [22:26:12] <kingryan> tommorris: that's a good example of building tools on top of existing formats
  354. [22:26:22] <kingryan> no need for a new format there
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  356. [22:27:39] <mfbot> [[Talk:buttons]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:buttons * Uz2U6d * (+11135)
  357. [22:27:55] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:buttons": spam
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  359. [22:28:18] <bewest> wow
  360. [22:28:20] <bewest> that was fast
  361. [22:28:28] * kingryan is a ninja
  362. [22:28:29] <bewest> I think I heard a whistling noise
  363. [22:28:43] * jimbojw is a pirate
  364. [22:29:43] <tommorris> In cases where microformats don't provide a clear and easy answer, you should try and forge a new path *as if you were writing a standard* - provide documentation as if it were standardised, to encourage others.
  365. [22:29:54] <tommorris> URI-based extensibility is an advantage here, o'course.
  366. [22:31:11] <tommorris> That way, you make some visible precedent, rather than hiding your precedent in your HTML. Hence why I publish things like the NSFW profile.
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  382. [23:45:28] <mfbot> [[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=21466 * Na8W88 * (+17610)
  383. [23:50:49] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "naming-principleshttp:/kbase.x10.com/wiki/Minimum Requirements for Camera Software": spam
  384. [23:51:00] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:QkiZsv" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
  385. [23:51:22] <mfbot> [[glossary]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=21467 * RyanKing * (-17610) Reverted edit of Na8W88, changed back to last version by Tantek
  386. [23:51:32] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:Na8W88" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
  387. [23:57:01] * kingryan (n=kingryan@corp.technorati.com) Quit ()

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