IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-10-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:13:37] * nerddeluxe (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-53-1.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
  2. [00:42:24] * jeffmcneill (n=jeffmcne@66.162.254.21) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  3. [00:44:05] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-152-211.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  4. [00:45:21] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-153-253.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  5. [01:06:02] * kingryan (n=kingryan@corp.technorati.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  6. [01:12:18] <mfbot> [[reltag]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=reltag&diff=0&oldid=22173 * AbaQug * (+14558)
  7. [01:16:09] <mfbot> [[Talk:xfolk-brainstorming]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:xfolk-brainstorming * UwrXum * (+14696)
  8. [01:16:10] <mfbot> [[Talk:put-it-on-the-wiki]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:put-it-on-the-wiki * NtvDb9 * (+14504)
  9. [01:28:51] * SignpostMarv (n=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
  10. [01:33:15] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@cpe-76-189-106-159.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  11. [01:46:56] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-153-253.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  12. [01:47:09] * bear42 (n=bear@pool-72-78-168-237.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  13. [02:01:23] * MattBowen (n=chatzill@208-58-4-28.c3-0.129-ubr1.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com) has joined #microformats
  14. [02:01:23] <jibot> MattBowen is Matt Bowen and can be found online at http://m.odul.us
  15. [02:18:48] * SignpostMarv (n=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  16. [02:18:48] <jibot> SignpostMarv is a WordPress, Second Life and OpenID geek
  17. [02:19:29] * taichi (n=kaminogo@124.32.114.226) has joined #microformats
  18. [02:24:27] * bear42 is now known as bear
  19. [02:25:41] * SignpostMarv (n=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
  20. [02:26:11] * vbgunz is now known as vbgun
  21. [02:44:34] * SignpostMarv (n=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  22. [02:44:34] <jibot> SignpostMarv is a WordPress, Second Life and OpenID geek
  23. [03:06:46] <mfbot> [[rest/urls]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/urls&diff=0&oldid=22174 * StephenBannasch * (+123) Client Error -
  24. [03:15:41] * MattBowen (n=chatzill@208-58-4-28.c3-0.129-ubr1.lnh-129.md.cable.rcn.com) Quit ("thanks!")
  25. [03:34:09] <mfbot> [[reltag]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=reltag&diff=0&oldid=22175 * Tantek * (-14558) Reverted edit of AbaQug, changed back to last version by Tantek
  26. [03:34:20] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:AbaQug" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  27. [03:34:31] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:UwrXum" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  28. [03:34:37] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:NtvDb9" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  29. [03:34:53] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:xfolk-brainstorming": spam
  30. [03:34:54] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:put-it-on-the-wiki": spam
  31. [04:00:34] * jeffmcneill (n=jeffmcne@66.162.254.21) has joined #microformats
  32. [04:04:35] * jeremyb (n=jeremy@unaffiliated/jeremyb) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  33. [04:04:41] * jeremyb (n=jeremy@unaffiliated/jeremyb) has joined #microformats
  34. [04:15:12] <mfbot> [[social-network-portability]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=22176 * Tantek * (+45) moved psyc to a non-web based alternative approach section - it seems to be a completely separate stack of technologies from everything else
  35. [05:10:20] <mfbot> [[Talk:rest-proposal-preso]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rest-proposal-preso * HlrHtr * (+15030)
  36. [05:10:46] <mfbot> [[Talk:attention-brainstorming]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:attention-brainstorming * SlxGlf * (+13336)
  37. [05:17:42] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:HlrHtr" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  38. [05:19:48] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:SlxGlf" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  39. [05:19:54] <mfbot> [[Talk:citation-examples-markup-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:citation-examples-markup-fr * TfhHjw * (+14162)
  40. [05:20:15] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:TfhHjw" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  41. [05:20:46] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) deleted "Talk:rest-proposal-preso": spam
  42. [05:21:07] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) deleted "Talk:attention-brainstorming": spam
  43. [05:21:33] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) deleted "Talk:citation-examples-markup-fr": spam
  44. [05:54:30] <mfbot> [[user-interface-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=user-interface-fr&diff=0&oldid=22177 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3578) [fr:sync'd]
  45. [06:02:38] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ("http:/www.csarven.ca")
  46. [06:38:01] * SignpostMarv (n=Signpost@82-71-31-169.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
  47. [07:03:59] <mfbot> [[Talk:mars-examples]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:mars-examples * QbsGcw * (+15298)
  48. [07:07:35] <mfbot> [[Talk:events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats * QhsI80 * (+15277)
  49. [07:14:45] * danja (n=danja@host57-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  50. [07:14:45] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  51. [07:18:22] * bengee (n=bengee@ip206.117.1312A-CUD12K-01.ish.de) has joined #microformats
  52. [07:18:23] <jibot> bengee is Benjamin Nowack (http://bnode.org/)
  53. [07:40:58] * Naflol38 (i=sdei@gateway/tor/x-aff7176d2b82dd1e) has joined #microformats
  54. [07:52:45] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-a6c1ffb85b76b22d) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  55. [08:00:38] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  56. [08:00:38] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  57. [08:10:32] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@user-64-9-237-202.googlewifi.com) has joined #microformats
  58. [08:10:32] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
  59. [08:13:50] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@user-64-9-237-202.googlewifi.com) Quit (Client Quit)
  60. [08:17:36] * danja (n=danja@host57-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  61. [08:22:18] * danja (n=danja@host212-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  62. [08:46:36] * BenWard (i=BenWard@nat/yahoo/x-7c468dee75a43d40) has joined #microformats
  63. [08:46:36] * ChanServ sets mode +o BenWard
  64. [08:46:36] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
  65. [09:01:40] * tantek (n=tantek@212.145.150.218) Quit ()
  66. [09:11:41] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22178 * ChrisNewell * (+21) General information -
  67. [09:11:42] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) has joined #microformats
  68. [09:11:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  69. [09:11:42] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  70. [09:12:22] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22179 * ChrisNewell * (+10) General information -
  71. [09:12:48] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22180 * ChrisNewell * (+2) General information -
  72. [09:17:29] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22181 * ChrisNewell * (+1) Technical information -
  73. [09:29:22] * Naflol38 (i=sdei@gateway/tor/x-aff7176d2b82dd1e) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  74. [09:29:31] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22182 * AndyMabbett * (+38) bandwidth could use "measure" microformat
  75. [09:34:17] <mfbot> [[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=22183 * AndyMabbett * (+302) route, track, waypoint; existing-rel-values
  76. [09:37:17] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@hq.last.fm) has joined #microformats
  77. [09:37:17] <jibot> julianstahnke is Julian Stahnke and works for last.fm and implements microformats wherever he can
  78. [09:39:15] * KevinMarks (n=KevinMar@98.207.134.151) has joined #microformats
  79. [09:39:15] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
  80. [09:39:56] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  81. [09:39:59] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) has joined #microformats
  82. [09:39:59] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  83. [09:43:00] * tantek_ (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) has joined #microformats
  84. [09:43:39] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=22184 * AndyMabbett * (+108) see user-interface
  85. [09:45:25] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=22185 * AndyMabbett * (+22) Operator - update URL
  86. [09:49:07] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  87. [09:52:06] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22186 * ChrisNewell * (+69) General information -
  88. [09:53:43] * vant (n=vant@p3206-ipbf4105marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) has joined #microformats
  89. [09:54:26] * taichi (n=kaminogo@124.32.114.226) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  90. [09:58:12] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22187 * ChrisNewell * (+153) Comments -
  91. [09:58:53] <mfbot> [[existing-rel-values]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=existing-rel-values&diff=0&oldid=22188 * AndyMabbett * (+161) unspecified - specified
  92. [09:58:57] * tantek_ (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) Quit ()
  93. [10:03:44] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22189 * ChrisNewell * (+15) General information -
  94. [10:10:49] <mfbot> [[existing-rel-values]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=existing-rel-values&diff=0&oldid=22190 * AndyMabbett * (+112) lightbox
  95. [10:12:51] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22191 * ChrisNewell * (+269) Combining with other microformats -
  96. [10:13:16] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22192 * ChrisNewell * (-17) General information -
  97. [10:15:37] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22193 * ChrisNewell * (+89) General information -
  98. [10:16:23] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22194 * ChrisNewell * (+89) hAudio & hVideo -
  99. [10:16:49] <mfbot> [[User:Evan]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Evan&diff=0&oldid=22195 * Vi8Fq4 * (+14493)
  100. [10:17:15] <mfbot> [[existing-rel-values]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=existing-rel-values&diff=0&oldid=22196 * AndyMabbett * (+9) formats - fmt
  101. [10:19:37] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22197 * ChrisNewell * (-85) hAudio & hVideo -
  102. [10:20:33] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22198 * ChrisNewell * (-58) General information -
  103. [10:26:48] * danja_ (n=danja@host106-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  104. [10:30:59] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=22199 * DavidFq * (+115) New Examples -
  105. [10:32:00] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22200 * ChrisNewell * (+36) Technical information -
  106. [10:33:21] <mfbot> [[hreview-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=22201 * DavidFq * (+152) New Examples -
  107. [10:33:31] * danja (n=danja@host212-220-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  108. [10:33:42] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=22202 * Phae * (+315) cooker.net
  109. [10:33:58] <mfbot> [[recipe-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-examples&diff=0&oldid=22203 * Phae * (-2) www.cooker.net - Muffins Zucca e Radicchio -
  110. [10:39:38] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-53-1.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  111. [10:40:14] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22204 * AndyMabbett * (-15) Comments - fmt & copy edit
  112. [10:41:10] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22205 * ChrisNewell * (+208) Technical information -
  113. [10:41:51] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22206 * ChrisNewell * (+1) Extend scope of hAudio and hVideo -
  114. [10:42:53] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22207 * ChrisNewell * (-3) hReview -
  115. [10:50:44] <mfbot> [[broadcast-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-examples&diff=0&oldid=22208 * ChrisNewell * (+163) Existing Practices -
  116. [10:51:11] <MAKACOW-Brazil> good morning folks :P
  117. [10:51:23] <MAKACOW-Brazil> >>
  118. [10:56:38] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@84.189.123.172) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  119. [10:58:28] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) has joined #microformats
  120. [10:58:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  121. [10:58:28] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  122. [11:01:03] * tantek_ (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) has joined #microformats
  123. [11:02:02] <MAKACOW-Brazil> tantek_: do you never think to create a browser engine with full suport for microformts?
  124. [11:02:23] <MAKACOW-Brazil> or this you think desnecessary?
  125. [11:02:49] <MAKACOW-Brazil> trident e gecko have full suport for microformts?
  126. [11:04:32] <MAKACOW-Brazil> tantek: ^
  127. [11:07:30] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  128. [11:16:01] * mattis^ (n=mattis^@p54BD6FF2.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  129. [11:23:02] <mfbot> [[xfolk-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=22209 * Yk1Ael * (+14498)
  130. [11:24:09] * tantek_ (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) Quit (Connection timed out)
  131. [11:38:09] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=22210 * AndyMabbett * (+24) moving last to "problems"
  132. [11:41:00] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems&diff=0&oldid=22211 * AndyMabbett * (+324) 11870.com lcoality lacks adr
  133. [11:41:21] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems&diff=0&oldid=22212 * AndyMabbett * (+59) sign my last
  134. [11:42:57] <mfbot> [[User talk:DavidFq]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:DavidFq * AndyMabbett * (+270) Welcome & bug report
  135. [11:45:42] <mfbot> [[tfl-syntax]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tfl-syntax&diff=0&oldid=22213 * LziZ44 * (+14422)
  136. [11:46:23] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22214 * ChrisNewell * (+271) hCard -
  137. [11:46:59] <mfbot> [[hreview-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=22215 * DavidFq * (+10) New Examples -
  138. [11:47:45] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems&diff=0&oldid=22216 * DavidFq * (-114) Examples with problems -
  139. [11:48:51] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-with-problems&diff=0&oldid=22217 * DavidFq * (-132) Examples with problems -
  140. [11:50:15] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) has joined #microformats
  141. [11:50:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  142. [11:50:16] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  143. [11:55:52] * tantek (n=tantek@cm-staticIP-85-152-41-1.telecable.es) Quit ()
  144. [12:19:13] * danja_ (n=danja@host106-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  145. [12:25:32] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@cpe-76-189-106-159.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  146. [12:41:25] * danja (n=danja@host106-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
  147. [12:41:25] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  148. [12:41:39] * danja (n=danja@host106-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  149. [13:06:49] * mkaply (n=mkaply@user-12lml8q.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #microformats
  150. [13:06:49] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
  151. [13:07:09] <mkaply> Is Dmitry Baranovskiy online ever?
  152. [13:08:37] <mfbot> [[User talk:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=22218 * LucaPost * (+925) [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] -
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  154. [13:20:10] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=22219 * LucaPost * (+68) Examples -
  155. [13:21:36] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-examples-in-wild&diff=0&oldid=22220 * LucaPost * (+26) Examples -
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  158. [13:34:07] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22221 * ChrisNewell * (+22) General information -
  159. [13:37:58] <mfbot> [[User talk:AndyMabbett]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=22222 * AndyMabbett * (+14) move last tyo own section
  160. [13:38:44] <mfbot> [[User talk:AndyMabbett]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User_talk:AndyMabbett&diff=0&oldid=22223 * AndyMabbett * (-1)
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  162. [13:53:50] <jibot> Charl is Charl van Niekerk and writes about standards at http://standards.za.net/
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  165. [14:13:56] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  167. [14:16:26] <jibot> jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
  168. [14:18:49] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-364fcd6b0573b856) has joined #microformats
  169. [14:18:49] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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  171. [14:30:24] <dglazkov> mkaply, can you elaborate just a touch more on the last post on your blog?
  172. [14:30:34] <dglazkov> was my comment in line with your thinking?
  173. [14:30:55] <mkaply> dglazkov: Somewhat.
  174. [14:31:04] <mkaply> dglazkov: Here's the problem.
  175. [14:31:20] <mkaply> dglazkov: Let's say I wanted to add support to Firefox for taking an hCard and sending it to Yahoo Contacts.
  176. [14:31:42] <mkaply> In Operator, I accomplish that by having a ton of JAvaScript that takes an hCard and munges it into the format that Yahoo wants
  177. [14:31:51] <mkaply> Same thing for a calendar entry or something else.
  178. [14:32:07] <mkaply> But the idea that there would be this custom bit of JS for every service Firefox wanted to support is kind of silly.
  179. [14:32:26] <mkaply> There should be some sort of standard representation of the data in Firefox and some sort of standard service on the other end I can send the data to
  180. [14:32:46] <mkaply> So that the connection is a matter of saying "here's a URL, POST the hCard to the URL"
  181. [14:32:56] <mkaply> or "here's the URL, and the GET syntax is the same for everyone"
  182. [14:33:04] <dglazkov> right
  183. [14:33:45] <mkaply> the JSON stuff is interesting, but I disagree with some of the JSON that Optimus is producing, for instance
  184. [14:33:56] <dglazkov> so, out of the bat, my response was, use HTML spec
  185. [14:33:57] <mkaply> And as I think more about it, I'm not sure that's the right mode of exchange
  186. [14:34:11] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22224 * ChrisNewell * (+57) hCard -
  187. [14:34:16] <mkaply> Since I'm going to have code in Firefox to convert stuff to a VCARD anyway, what I'm thinking there should be...
  188. [14:34:25] <mkaply> is Yahoo should have a way to post a vCard to Yahoo Contacts.
  189. [14:34:45] <dglazkov> something like APP?
  190. [14:34:52] <dglazkov> for vcs/ics?
  191. [14:34:55] <mkaply> dglazkov: yeah
  192. [14:35:32] <dglazkov> that makes sense, but...
  193. [14:35:59] <dglazkov> using x-ww... has a pretty cool advantage: it can be represented in a browser as a form
  194. [14:36:20] <dglazkov> so the user can enter the event... and the machine can do it, too
  195. [14:36:27] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22225 * ChrisNewell * (-2) hCard -
  196. [14:36:38] <dglazkov> so, the path is:
  197. [14:37:23] <dglazkov> 1. make their existing forms use names that correspond to x-ww.. encoding of the format
  198. [14:37:36] <dglazkov> 2. advertise action of the form as machine end-point
  199. [14:37:45] <dglazkov> no?
  200. [14:38:15] <mkaply> yeah. That's a definite advantage of the form side of things.
  201. [14:39:06] <dglazkov> but I can totally see the effciency savings on vcs-APP
  202. [14:39:25] <dglazkov> hold on, doesn't APP have resources stuff..
  203. [14:39:28] * dglazkov looking...
  204. [14:41:06] <dglazkov> yeah, media resources
  205. [14:41:16] <dglazkov> that should work, too
  206. [14:42:04] <dglazkov> kludgy.. must create two entries...
  207. [14:42:20] <mkaply> Of course Google sucks in that don't allow remote access to contacts at all
  208. [14:43:02] <dglazkov> that's a pretty strange ommission
  209. [14:43:18] <dglazkov> considering how extensive the rest of the stuff is
  210. [14:43:20] * cgriego (n=cgriego@216.138.69.206) has joined #microformats
  211. [14:43:20] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
  212. [14:44:14] <dglazkov> though I bet that's not going to be for long
  213. [14:47:08] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22226 * ChrisNewell * (+185) hCard -
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  216. [14:48:44] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22227 * ChrisNewell * (-84)
  217. [14:48:52] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) has joined #microformats
  218. [14:48:52] <jibot> ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
  219. [14:52:14] <mkaply> I'm thinking there needs to be more time spent on the microformats<->JSON thing. Some of the stuff Optimus is doing doesn't work well, and I'm worried it will become "the standard"
  220. [14:52:25] <dglazkov> like?
  221. [14:53:06] <mkaply> like if there is one url it does "url" : "http://www.yahoo.com" - for multiples - "url" : ["http://www.yahoo.com","http://www.google.com"]
  222. [14:53:19] <mkaply> I think that if an attribute in a microformat is plural it should always be represented as an array
  223. [14:53:30] <mkaply> Otherwise it's more difficult to figure out the JSON.
  224. [14:53:34] <dglazkov> oh, I have actually seen this
  225. [14:53:39] <mkaply> You have to spend time figuring if it is an array or not
  226. [14:53:55] <dglazkov> if there's just one hcard, it's hcard: value, but if more than one, hcard: [...]
  227. [14:54:05] <mkaply> yah.
  228. [14:54:05] <dglazkov> you're right, not kosher
  229. [14:54:07] <mkaply> yeah.
  230. [14:54:19] <mkaply> Also, I believe the JSON spec says all strings must be in quotes
  231. [14:54:30] <dglazkov> Dmitry is a pretty nice guy, you should just email him, he'll fix it
  232. [14:54:42] <mkaply> Well what we need to figure out is the "right thing"
  233. [14:54:49] * dglazkov knows from experience that all people named "Dmitry" are nice guys
  234. [14:54:57] <mkaply> ha
  235. [14:55:06] <dglazkov> array is the right thing, no doubt
  236. [14:55:33] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-23-42.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  237. [14:55:33] <jibot> bear is located near Philadelphia, PA and the build/release grunt for OSAF and an apprentice python hacker
  238. [14:56:06] <dglazkov> I can send an email to the -dev list
  239. [14:56:22] <dglazkov> I asked him to put the proj on Google code
  240. [14:57:40] <dglazkov> JSON serialization of microformats
  241. [14:57:51] <dglazkov> should be standardized, no doubt
  242. [14:58:40] <dglazkov> ryanking, kevinmarks, and myself have discussed this in context of test cases
  243. [14:58:58] <dglazkov> but it's probably needed in a wider perspective, now that Optimus has arrived
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  251. [15:22:56] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22228 * ChrisNewell * (+36) List of possible Sub-Formats -
  252. [15:23:22] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22229 * ChrisNewell * (+6) List of possible Sub-Formats -
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  259. [15:36:59] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22230 * ChrisNewell * (-29) Contributors -
  260. [15:37:20] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22231 * ChrisNewell * (+2) Contributors -
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  262. [15:43:51] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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  265. [15:45:26] <jibot> SamRose is found at http://smartmobs.com, http://communitywiki.org, http://blog.p2pfoundation.com, http://barcampbank.com, and http://cooperationcommons.com
  266. [15:51:52] * vbgun is now known as vbgunz
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  269. [16:11:57] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22232 * ChrisNewell * (+273) New microformat -
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  272. [16:14:48] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22233 * ChrisNewell * (-1) New microformat -
  273. [16:20:19] <mfbot> [[broadcast-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=broadcast-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22234 * AndyMabbett * (-4) New microformat - per current thinking on new "measure" microformat
  274. [16:20:50] * Wolfyy (n=opera@201-40-38-38.bsaco700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has joined #microformats
  275. [16:22:50] <mfbot> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations&diff=0&oldid=22235 * Makacow * (-122) deleted broken link, this pt-BR translation does not exist in the linked page
  276. [16:23:46] <mfbot> [[measure]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure&diff=0&oldid=22236 * AndyMabbett * (-62) See also - make template
  277. [16:23:57] <mfbot> [[Template:measure-related-pages]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:measure-related-pages * AndyMabbett * (+87)
  278. [16:24:28] <mfbot> [[measure-formats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-formats&diff=0&oldid=22237 * AndyMabbett * (+40) See also
  279. [16:25:24] <mfbot> [[measure-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-examples&diff=0&oldid=22238 * AndyMabbett * (-63) See also
  280. [16:26:00] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) has joined #microformats
  281. [16:26:00] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22239 * AndyMabbett * (+89)
  282. [16:26:57] <mfbot> [[Template:measure-related-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Template:measure-related-pages&diff=0&oldid=22240 * AndyMabbett * (+14) measure
  283. [16:41:56] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22241 * AndyMabbett * (+1390) List of possible Sub-Formats - Straw man
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  285. [16:43:18] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  286. [16:43:18] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  287. [16:43:37] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22242 * AndyMabbett * (+1) Straw man -
  288. [16:50:48] <mfbot> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations&diff=0&oldid=22243 * Makacow * (+165) added new implementation item "MeetListen now supports XFN on profile pages."
  289. [16:52:39] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22244 * AndyMabbett * (+63)
  290. [16:52:40] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22245 * AndyMabbett * (+1625) Straw man
  291. [16:53:06] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22246 * AndyMabbett * (-2) Issues -
  292. [16:55:18] <mfbot> [[events/2007-01-la-microformats-gettogether-planning]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-la-microformats-gettogether-planning&diff=0&oldid=22247 * NdsMx4 * (+13551)
  293. [16:56:45] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22248 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Straw man - fmt
  294. [16:57:21] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22249 * AndyMabbett * (+0) Notes - fmt
  295. [16:59:24] * surial (n=surial@213.211.187.130) has joined #microformats
  296. [16:59:24] <jibot> surial is Reinier Zwitserloot, maintainer of org.microformats.hCard, the java hCard parser.
  297. [16:59:37] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22250 * AndyMabbett * (+19)
  298. [16:59:38] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22251 * AndyMabbett * (+198) Issues -
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  301. [17:05:13] <mfbot> [[Talk:faqs-for-rdf-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:faqs-for-rdf-fr * Rv0Edx * (+14777)
  302. [17:05:35] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22252 * AndyMabbett * (+50) ol straw-man superseded
  303. [17:08:51] <mfbot> [[currency-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=currency-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22253 * AndyMabbett * (+165) Straw man - sub-divisions
  304. [17:11:17] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:faqs-for-rdf-fr": spam
  305. [17:11:33] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:Rv0Edx" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
  306. [17:11:39] <mfbot> [[measure-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=measure-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=22254 * AndyMabbett * (+228) Notes - imperial
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  309. [17:22:15] <CaptSolo> dglazkov: why would you need a JSON serialisation of mformats?
  310. [17:22:31] <CaptSolo> from what i hear microformats are supposed to be visible on a web page
  311. [17:22:42] <CaptSolo> JSON is not
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  313. [17:23:13] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
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  317. [17:26:22] <mkaply> CaptSolo: mainly to send the microformatted data to another service. An easy encpsuatlion. Wouldn't really want to send the DOM snippet.
  318. [17:26:39] <mkaply> It could be sent as raw DOM, JSON, XML, or native (vcard/ics)
  319. [17:31:06] <CaptSolo> mkaply: agreed that sending or storing microformats as DOM snippets is not the best
  320. [17:31:20] <CaptSolo> between services, that is
  321. [17:31:33] * TristanD (n=tristan@AVelizy-153-1-53-1.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  322. [17:31:38] <mkaply> vcard seems like it might be a good idea, but Writing a vcard parser would be no fun :)
  323. [17:31:46] <mkaply> simply because vcard is a "common interchange"
  324. [17:31:54] <mkaply> but the problem there is that not all microformats have a "common interchange"
  325. [17:32:00] <CaptSolo> was playing devil's advocate a but, in line with what KevinMarks wrote about FOAF:
  326. [17:32:14] <kingryan> and their common interchanges aren't easy to combine
  327. [17:33:11] <CaptSolo> 11:11 < KevinMarks> you're wrong about XFN
  328. [17:33:11] <CaptSolo> 11:11 < KevinMarks> URLs are people too
  329. [17:33:11] <CaptSolo> 11:12 < KevinMarks> and adding a has to an mf makes some sense
  330. [17:33:11] <CaptSolo> 11:12 < KevinMarks> the big problem with FOAF is that it is invisible
  331. [17:33:11] <CaptSolo> 11:13 < KevinMarks> and matching email hashes only works if you stick to one email
  332. [17:33:15] <CaptSolo> 11:13 < KevinMarks> whereas profile URLs are more persistent
  333. [17:33:30] <CaptSolo> about the big problem of FOAF being invisible
  334. [17:34:05] <CaptSolo> to me it is not self evident that all data should be both visible and machine readable
  335. [17:34:24] <CaptSolo> it's great if visible data on the web can generate structured information
  336. [17:35:16] <CaptSolo> but i see no proof that data should always be represented as HTML and visible.
  337. [17:35:34] <kingryan> CaptSolo: no one said it always should be in HTML
  338. [17:35:53] <kingryan> but when the data's already in HTML, it can be marked up such that a machine can grok it
  339. [17:36:11] <CaptSolo> kingryan: sure. i'm all for getting more data out of HTML
  340. [17:36:24] <kingryan> then you're in the right place :)
  341. [17:36:45] <CaptSolo> but then it's not a problem with FOAF that it is not visible or not HTML, as long as there are applications that can make good use of FOAF
  342. [17:37:05] <CaptSolo> kingryan: i hope so :)
  343. [17:40:15] * DavidMead (n=DaveMead@adcomcommunications-gw0.cust.expedient.net) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  344. [17:42:57] <CaptSolo> ok, turns out that the comments are not broken
  345. [17:45:41] <CaptSolo> they were just waiting for moderation
  346. [17:46:32] * amanuel (n=amanuel@fwint.bsharp.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  347. [17:47:42] <jeffmcneill> Aloha everyone, quick question: why <div> instead of <span> with some parts of <adr> (e.g., <div class="country-name">)
  348. [17:47:59] <kingryan> jeffmcneill: the element name is irrelevant
  349. [17:48:02] <kingryan> you can use whatever you want
  350. [17:48:06] <jeffmcneill> I cannot seem to find a rationale but do find variety out there
  351. [17:48:12] <jeffmcneill> is there a common practice?
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  354. [17:48:47] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  355. [17:51:04] * Wolfy (n=opera@189-10-125-210.bsaco700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has left #microformats
  356. [17:51:32] <mfbot> [[events/2007-01-la-microformats-gettogether-planning]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-01-la-microformats-gettogether-planning&diff=0&oldid=22255 * Tantek * (-13551) Reverted edit of NdsMx4, changed back to last version by Tantek
  357. [17:51:38] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:NdsMx4" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  358. [17:52:09] <mfbot> [[tfl-syntax]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=tfl-syntax&diff=0&oldid=22256 * Tantek * (-14422) Reverted edit of LziZ44, changed back to last version by AndyMabbett
  359. [17:52:15] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:LziZ44" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  360. [17:52:51] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Yk1Ael" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  361. [17:52:57] <mfbot> [[xfolk-faq-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfolk-faq-fr&diff=0&oldid=22257 * Tantek * (-14498) Reverted edit of Yk1Ael, changed back to last version by ChristopheDucamp
  362. [17:53:26] <CaptSolo> kingryan: ok, since comments are working ok, here's the blog post
  363. [17:53:44] <CaptSolo> http://tinyurl.com/2wvcf5
  364. [17:54:04] <CaptSolo> on the use of FOAF for Social Network Portability
  365. [17:54:37] <CaptSolo> would be interesting to see what people around here think about it
  366. [17:54:44] * tantek (n=tantek@212.145.150.218) Quit ()
  367. [17:56:53] <mkaply> jeffmcneill: no common practice. It's all about what you need in your HTML
  368. [17:57:25] <jeffmcneill> much thanks mkaply and kingryan
  369. [17:57:51] <jeffmcneill> btw mkaply, love OPERATOR, thank you
  370. [17:58:06] <mkaply> jeffmcneill: thank you for the kind words
  371. [17:58:08] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=22258 * Cgriego * (+212) Adding Oct 2 Dallas Ruby Brigade
  372. [17:58:19] <mfbot> [[events/2007-10-04-fundamentos-web-social-network-portability]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-10-04-fundamentos-web-social-network-portability&diff=0&oldid=22259 * Adactio * (+108) details -
  373. [17:58:37] <CaptSolo> mkaply, kingryan: what's the problem with "common interchange(s)" or lack of them?
  374. [17:58:43] <CaptSolo> 20:32 < mkaply> but the problem there is that not all microformats have a "common interchange"
  375. [17:58:48] <CaptSolo> 20:32 <@kingryan> and their common interchanges aren't easy to combine
  376. [17:59:17] <mkaply> CaptSolo: I was simply pointing out that while hcard has vcard and hcalendar has vevent/vcalendar, none of the others have a "real world" option (except I guess hAtom)
  377. [17:59:23] <kingryan> the lack of them is a problem because people want to use them and they don't exist :)
  378. [17:59:35] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=22260 * Adactio * (+1) Microformats related events -
  379. [17:59:54] <kingryan> and another problem is that a bunch of people are doing JSON differently - if we're gonna have microformatted data in JSON we might as well all do it the same way
  380. [18:00:30] <CaptSolo> people want some way to interchange data contained in a microformat (other than in HTML) and it does not exist for all of them?
  381. [18:01:05] <kingryan> people want to take the result of parsing data out of microformats and exchange that in a more lightweight way (than exchanging the HTML)
  382. [18:01:07] <CaptSolo> kingryan: is it only a problem with people that they want things they do not really need?
  383. [18:01:20] <kingryan> I don't think so.
  384. [18:01:28] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) has joined #microformats
  385. [18:01:30] <kingryan> I use JSON to pass data around internally at technorati
  386. [18:01:51] <CaptSolo> ideally, i would want to express all the information from different microformats in a generic way
  387. [18:02:30] <bewest> you can always use the html fragment containing the microformat itself
  388. [18:02:34] <bewest> gzip works wonders
  389. [18:02:39] <CaptSolo> so that there is a universal format, more useful to services than DOM, to transport this info
  390. [18:02:58] <CaptSolo> using html fragments is to the best, i think
  391. [18:03:21] <kingryan> yeah, bewest , but not all my coworkers want to parse microformats
  392. [18:03:28] <CaptSolo> gzip may work wonders, but how would you build a database that can contain anyarbitrary microformats?
  393. [18:03:37] <CaptSolo> keep them in html fragments?
  394. [18:04:07] <CaptSolo> that's the default serialisaiton, but i really doubt it will make for efficient querying
  395. [18:04:29] <bewest> doesn't GRDDL solve this?
  396. [18:04:39] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=22261 * Adactio * (+229) 2007 -
  397. [18:04:46] <kingryan> databases with arbitrary schemas are out of scope for microformats
  398. [18:04:49] <CaptSolo> also, when parsing microformats from HTML, aren't there many special cases that have to be taken into account?
  399. [18:05:17] <kingryan> why do special cases matter in this context?
  400. [18:05:17] <CaptSolo> kingryan: are you saying that you can not store all the microformats in a generic format in a database?
  401. [18:05:31] <kingryan> I'm saying you could, but that's not the problem we're trying to solve here
  402. [18:05:33] <CaptSolo> and have to create tables for each microformat in question?
  403. [18:05:52] <kingryan> CaptSolo: you can do whatever you want to store them
  404. [18:05:53] <CaptSolo> one for address book entries, one for calendar entries, one for reviews, ...
  405. [18:06:00] <kingryan> that's one approach
  406. [18:06:10] <bewest> sounds like an application specific problem
  407. [18:06:13] <CaptSolo> kingryan: what are the other options?
  408. [18:06:41] <kingryan> CaptSolo: as I said, this is not the right place to discuss that. I recommend reading a textbook on data managment.
  409. [18:08:01] <CaptSolo> kingryan: so - is generic storage / querying of microformat data is outside the scope of #microformats?
  410. [18:08:12] <kingryan> that's what I'm trying to say
  411. [18:08:22] <CaptSolo> ok, will know
  412. [18:08:35] <kingryan> it's way too application specific
  413. [18:09:12] <CaptSolo> isn't JSON serialisation trying to solve similar questions
  414. [18:09:19] <jeffmcneill> speaking of applications, are there any folks interested in getting mediawiki to support microformats?
  415. [18:09:22] <kingryan> CaptSolo: no
  416. [18:09:37] <CaptSolo> once you have a universal way to serialise them to JSON, my question is almost solved too
  417. [18:09:55] <CaptSolo> kingryan: i think those are closely related.
  418. [18:09:56] <kingryan> CaptSolo: it's just talking about representing data when being transmitted or exchanged. how you store it on disk or query for it is very different
  419. [18:10:19] <kingryan> jeffmcneill: there's some support in wikipedia already
  420. [18:10:45] <CaptSolo> kingryan: oh, you might have missed my point. my question is not about physical storage, but about generic representation for data
  421. [18:10:46] <kingryan> CaptSolo: I disagree.
  422. [18:10:49] <CaptSolo> which JSON seems to be
  423. [18:11:11] <kingryan> CaptSolo: I didn't miss your point.
  424. [18:11:40] <kingryan> you asked about "generic storage" which is not the same as "generic representation"
  425. [18:11:55] <CaptSolo> kingryan: but that means that you'll be "locking" microformat data in silos again - each format will go to its own specific application
  426. [18:11:57] <kingryan> (physical vs abstract schemas)
  427. [18:12:05] <kingryan> CaptSolo: no we're not
  428. [18:12:06] <CaptSolo> one to address book, another to calendar, and so on
  429. [18:12:10] <kingryan> no, no no
  430. [18:12:15] <CaptSolo> really?
  431. [18:12:41] <CaptSolo> while the data are on the web that's ok
  432. [18:12:42] <kingryan> all I'm saying is that if you want to build an application using microformats, your application will have more to say about how to store and query the data than the format will
  433. [18:13:07] <kingryan> I've taken at least 3 different approaches to storing them, and they each had their merits
  434. [18:13:08] <jeffmcneill> kingryan i am reading this http://microformats.org/wiki/mediawiki-mark-up-issues but still am a little unclear on what is broken (microformats-wise) by a vanilla mediawiki install and what to try and fix
  435. [18:13:31] <CaptSolo> kingryan: would be interesting explore that more.
  436. [18:13:51] <kingryan> CaptSolo: I'm not saying it shouldn't be explored. I'm just saying "not here".
  437. [18:13:59] <CaptSolo> kingryan: are those 3 different approaches described somewhere on the wiki?
  438. [18:14:04] <kingryan> no
  439. [18:14:11] <CaptSolo> :/
  440. [18:14:19] <CaptSolo> what are they, anyway?
  441. [18:14:25] <bewest> an application keeping a cache of data ready to operate on isn't the same as a data silo, CaptSolo
  442. [18:14:25] <CaptSolo> html snippets is one
  443. [18:14:45] <kingryan> html snippets, relational databases and inverted indexes
  444. [18:15:56] <CaptSolo> html snippets provide generic storage, in RDBMSs the storage will probably be format specifci
  445. [18:16:00] <CaptSolo> what about interted indexes?
  446. [18:16:05] <kingryan> what about them?
  447. [18:16:19] <CaptSolo> how do you use them?
  448. [18:16:45] <kingryan> I'm sorry, CaptSolo but I don't have time to explain the details of how I've used them.
  449. [18:16:54] * tantek (n=tantek@212.145.150.218) has joined #microformats
  450. [18:16:54] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  451. [18:16:54] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  452. [18:17:00] <CaptSolo> pitty. 'd be interesting.
  453. [18:17:02] <CaptSolo> ok, thanks
  454. [18:17:14] <kingryan> and it's mostly dependent on internal tech we have at technorati
  455. [18:18:36] <CaptSolo> kingryan: ok, you work at technorati. then you have worked with this a lot.
  456. [18:18:46] <kingryan> yes
  457. [18:20:11] <CaptSolo> ok, i wont bore with my naive questions then :>
  458. [18:21:04] <CaptSolo> i am trying to see how different structured data formats can work together on the web. but am not an expert on microformats, not at all. that's why i ask them.
  459. [18:22:50] * julianstahnke (n=julianst@last.fm/staff/wurstkind) Quit ("Schönen Tag noch!")
  460. [18:23:42] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  461. [18:25:09] <dglazkov> ok, so, /json-examples
  462. [18:25:14] <dglazkov> on wiki?
  463. [18:25:18] <dglazkov> what's a good name?
  464. [18:25:38] <dglazkov> CaptSolo, kingryan: you are both right
  465. [18:25:54] * dglazkov was once told that this is a great way to diffuse any argument
  466. [18:28:11] <CaptSolo> dglazkov: :D
  467. [18:28:42] <dglazkov> ;)
  468. [18:32:48] * bear42 (n=bear@pool-72-78-18-204.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  469. [18:33:00] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-15-109.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  470. [18:33:12] <mkaply> actually, to back up, HTML fragements are not good because they might not contain all the data
  471. [18:33:18] * bear42 is now known as bear
  472. [18:34:07] * tantek (n=tantek@212.145.150.218) Quit ()
  473. [18:34:46] <mkaply> They are missing fully qualified URLs and possibly includes. Plus as kingryan pointed out, not everyone wants to build a microformats parser
  474. [18:35:10] <kingryan> mkaply: you can get around the urls and includes problem
  475. [18:35:16] <kingryan> but inlining that data
  476. [18:35:33] <mkaply> kingryan: True. And I do that. But passing around the original HTML just seems clunky.
  477. [18:35:42] <kingryan> I agree
  478. [18:35:55] <mkaply> If I've gone through the trouble of parsing the microformat, why shouldn't I send to a service the most efficient way possible?
  479. [18:36:15] <mkaply> Of course first we need to get services to support sending anything at all :)
  480. [18:36:30] <kingryan> yeah
  481. [18:36:42] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) has joined #microformats
  482. [18:37:23] <bewest> again, GRDDL solves a lot of that
  483. [18:38:09] <kingryan> no, bewest, grddl provides tools for solving it
  484. [18:38:27] <kingryan> you still have to decide on schemas and serializations and such
  485. [18:38:30] * bewest is corrected
  486. [18:39:00] <kingryan> the schema and serialization is the hard part, 'cause you gotta get consensus on it
  487. [18:39:39] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=22262 * DydimusTK * (+41)
  488. [18:40:28] <mkaply> And you want something that people are willing to accept.
  489. [18:40:41] <mkaply> Somehow I think saying "let's have everyone accept RDF" isn't the best strategy
  490. [18:41:46] <jeffmcneill> mkaply hasn't worked so far :P
  491. [18:42:10] <mfbot> [[User:DydimusTK]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:DydimusTK * DydimusTK * (+117)
  492. [18:42:16] <CaptSolo> mkaply: that won't be too popular in web2.0 community
  493. [18:43:36] <mkaply> That's why I like JSON. It has uptake
  494. [18:44:14] <bewest> you can chain webservices together... you can use GRDLL to go to RDF, and daisy chain that into a json transform
  495. [18:44:31] <CaptSolo> mkaply: microformats + GRDDL + generic RDF stores should work together ok, and can be one of the options for generic storage of this information.
  496. [18:44:54] * dglazkov likes x-www-form-encoded, because it's dead simple and it's part of HTML spec, and you can make an HTML form that generates it
  497. [18:44:57] <bewest> the other nice things about the web service model is that you can tell the web service what kind of serialization you expect to recieve, which helps cut down on the number of implementations necessary
  498. [18:45:14] <CaptSolo> mkaply: but i won't expect it to be people's favorite.
  499. [18:45:15] <bewest> dglazkov: yeah, I use it for lots of things for those reasons
  500. [18:45:36] <bewest> CaptSolo: how applications store data will be determined by the applications needs
  501. [18:46:03] <bewest> CaptSolo: it's typically trivial for an application to serialize it's data to match an agreed upon standard for how some data should be exchanged
  502. [18:46:31] <CaptSolo> bewest: true. i was responding to "let's have everyine accept RDF" part
  503. [18:46:45] <bewest> CaptSolo: accepting RDF doesn't mean you use an RDF store, necessarily though
  504. [18:47:11] <bewest> storage is outside of the scope of communicating data
  505. [18:47:39] <CaptSolo> bewest: no. opposive is true as well, using RDF store does not mean you can't expose data as HTML, XML, JSON, ...
  506. [18:47:47] <CaptSolo> agreed
  507. [18:49:15] <CaptSolo> bewest: in the daisy chaining example you mentioned - did you mean using GRDDL to go to RDF and then get JSON from RDF?
  508. [18:49:26] <bewest> sure, that's one possibility
  509. [18:50:36] <CaptSolo> 'd be interesting to see what webservices chaining mashups people will come up with
  510. [18:51:59] <bewest> there are lots already out there
  511. [18:53:46] * bear42 (n=bear@pool-72-78-166-84.phlapa.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  512. [18:57:06] <CaptSolo> bewest: lots of webservice chaining examples? well, there are Yahoo Pipes, but isn't that more of a mashup builder?
  513. [18:58:46] <mfbot> [[events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade * Cgriego * (+1226)
  514. [18:59:27] <mfbot> [[events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade&diff=0&oldid=22263 * Cgriego * (+10) Fixing wiki user links
  515. [19:00:43] <bewest> CaptSolo: I don't know of any site that catalogues pipeable web services
  516. [19:02:14] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=22264 * Cgriego * (+256) Adding Dallas Ruby Brigade October 2007
  517. [19:03:17] <bewest> CaptSolo: lots of these services take parameters where the value is a URI to another resource
  518. [19:03:36] <bewest> CaptSolo: so the technique is fairly simple... you tell the service to use a URI that is the result of another webservice
  519. [19:05:38] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-18-204.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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  521. [19:08:35] <mfbot> [[events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade&diff=0&oldid=22265 * Cgriego * (+62) updating attendees
  522. [19:09:53] <CaptSolo> bewest: sure, the principle is simple. wish i had more time to play w. those
  523. [19:11:25] <mkaply> The interesting part is transcoding that data to services that don't have the ability to accept that data
  524. [19:11:41] <mkaply> For instance, how do I send a microformat to yahoo contacts?
  525. [19:11:50] * Hagfish_ (n=Ed@80.175.122.69) has joined #microformats
  526. [19:12:06] <mfbot> [[events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2007-10-02-dallas-ruby-brigade&diff=0&oldid=22266 * Cgriego * (+17) updating attendees
  527. [19:13:15] <CaptSolo> mkaply: so you need mediation services
  528. [19:13:31] <CaptSolo> mkaply: what formats would those yahoo contacts accept?
  529. [19:23:14] <mkaply> well yahoo contacts only accept a URL right now. Operator converts a microformat to a URL with params
  530. [19:25:17] <mfbot> [[Talk:hreview-creator-feedback]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hreview-creator-feedback * UprW70 * (+14109)
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  533. [19:29:04] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-204126322e1fe482) has joined #microformats
  534. [19:29:04] <jibot> KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & the Podfather & now credentialed as a social genius
  535. [19:29:15] <dglazkov> so, are we doing a wiki page for json serialization? What's a good title?
  536. [19:34:24] <dglazkov> json-serialization-examples?
  537. [19:34:43] <dglazkov> uf-json-examples?
  538. [19:35:00] * dglazkov is itching to pop a new page on the wiki
  539. [19:35:53] * Hagfish_ (n=Ed@80.175.122.69) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  540. [19:36:16] * Hagfish_ (n=Ed@80.175.122.69) has joined #microformats
  541. [19:37:23] <mkaply> well it's microformats.org - how about just wiki/json
  542. [19:38:24] <dglazkov> doh
  543. [19:38:45] <dglazkov> ryanking, kevinmarks, ok to do?
  544. [19:42:27] <dglazkov> !(?permission) -> forgiveness
  545. [19:43:06] <mfbot> [[json]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/json * DimitriGlazkov * (+128) stub created -
  546. [19:43:12] <jeffmcneill> dglazkov: wiki pages can always be moved, go for it!
  547. [19:44:30] * bear (n=bear@pool-72-78-166-84.phlapa.east.verizon.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  548. [19:44:33] <dglazkov> too bad I gtg now, but everyone's welcome to start documenting JSON as it is used in ryanking's test, for starters.
  549. [19:45:16] <dglazkov> and of course, Operator's way, if different
  550. [19:45:24] <dglazkov> + Optimus
  551. [19:46:07] <dglazkov> starting point for tests: http://hg.microformats/org/tests
  552. [19:46:25] <dglazkov> sorry: http://hg.microformats.org/tests
  553. [19:47:58] <mfbot> [[Talk:events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Talk:events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats&diff=0&oldid=22267 * Ig3Rcz * (+14702)
  554. [19:48:29] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * DimitriGlazkov * (+0) blocked "User:Ig3Rcz" with an expiry time of Infinite: Spam
  555. [19:49:10] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * DimitriGlazkov * (+0) deleted "Talk:events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats": Spam
  556. [19:50:05] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  557. [19:50:27] * Hixie (i=ianh@trivini.no) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  558. [19:53:21] <mfbot> [[User talk:DydimusTK]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User_talk:DydimusTK * AndyMabbett * (+71) Welcome!
  559. [19:55:04] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)")
  560. [20:04:50] * bear42 is now known as bear
  561. [20:07:23] * dydimustk (n=tk@192.231.160.6) Quit ("ERC Version 5.2 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)")
  562. [20:08:03] <mfbot> [[Talk:rel-tag-spaces]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rel-tag-spaces * Ag7Xxz * (+14499)
  563. [20:23:29] * danja (n=danja@80.104.218.106) Quit ()
  564. [20:25:47] * ddfreyne (n=ddfreyne@unaffiliated/ddfreyne) Quit ("Read error: illiterate user")
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  566. [20:26:06] <jibot> SignpostMarv is a WordPress, Second Life and OpenID geek
  567. [20:29:33] * JMulder (n=me@ip4da10ac9.direct-adsl.nl) Quit ()
  568. [20:32:07] * surial (n=surial@213.211.187.130) Quit ("off to a bar.")
  569. [20:39:48] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:Ig3Rcz" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
  570. [20:39:59] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) deleted "Talk:rel-tag-spaces": spam
  571. [20:40:05] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RyanKing * (+0) blocked "User:Ag7Xxz" with an expiry time of indefinite: spam
  572. [20:56:35] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  573. [21:10:09] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=22268 * JeffMcNeill * (-27) changed externally formated link to internal wiki link
  574. [21:12:13] * danja (n=danja@80.104.218.106) has joined #microformats
  575. [21:12:13] <jibot> danja is Danny Ayers, http://dannyayers.com
  576. [21:14:55] <mfbot> [[citation-recommendation]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-recommendation&diff=0&oldid=22269 * DroS92 * (+14497)
  577. [21:27:32] <mfbot> [[json]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=json&diff=0&oldid=22270 * AndyMabbett * (+603) About JSON
  578. [21:28:18] <mfbot> [[JSON]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/JSON * AndyMabbett * (+18)
  579. [21:28:39] <mfbot> [[xoxo-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-issues&diff=0&oldid=22271 * JeffMcNeill * (-10614) revert from spam to last tantek edit
  580. [21:33:55] <mfbot> [[glossary]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=glossary&diff=0&oldid=22272 * AndyMabbett * (+211) JSON
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  583. [21:38:41] <jibot> Hixie is the iron fist of standards compliance
  584. [21:39:33] * danja (n=danja@host106-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) has joined #microformats
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  587. [22:04:40] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-f2ee7d113246565d) has joined #microformats
  588. [22:05:55] * mkaply (i=mkaply@nat/ibm/x-364fcd6b0573b856) Quit ("Leaving")
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  590. [22:10:18] <mfbot> [[Talk:cheat-sheet]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:cheat-sheet * PwfUy5 * (+14237)
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  598. [22:28:38] * csarven (n=nevrasc@modemcable130.251-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
  599. [22:28:38] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  600. [22:33:59] * danja (n=danja@host106-218-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it) Quit ()
  601. [22:54:56] <mfbot> [[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=22273 * Brian * (+142) added rel-me section
  602. [22:56:11] * Hagfish (n=Ed@80.175.122.69) has joined #microformats
  603. [22:56:11] <jibot> Hagfish is Any of various primitive, eel-shaped marine fishes of the family Myxinidae, having a jawless sucking mouth equipped with rasping teeth with which they bore into and feed on other fishes.
  604. [23:02:51] * KevinMarks (i=KevinMar@nat/google/x-f2ee7d113246565d) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  605. [23:14:43] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) deleted "Talk:cheat-sheet": infinite
  606. [23:21:19] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) blocked "User:UprW70" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  607. [23:21:45] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) deleted "Talk:hreview-creator-feedback": spam
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These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.