IRC Log for #microformats on 2007-12-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:53:22] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #microformats
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  5. [01:12:52] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  14. [02:43:46] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  15. [02:45:04] * lstrojny (n=lars@xdsl-87-78-213-249.netcologne.de) has joined #microformats
  16. [03:26:56] <dglazkov> jibot, help
  17. [03:27:31] <dglazkov> ?help
  18. [03:27:59] <dglazkov> ?whois dglazkov
  19. [03:27:59] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  20. [03:37:49] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ("durr...")
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  39. [10:48:56] <jibot> ddfreyne is Denis Defreyne and blogs at http://stoneship.org/.
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  45. [11:54:42] <mfbot> [[include-pattern-feedback]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern-feedback&diff=0&oldid=23943 * BasroCnaze * (+9) letoacbog
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  49. [13:50:03] <mfbot> [[Talk:hlisting-challenges]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hlisting-challenges * PbgI5g * (+19479)
  50. [14:08:20] <mfbot> [[User:WebOrganics]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:WebOrganics&diff=0&oldid=23944 * WebOrganics * (+1)
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  58. [15:36:29] <mfbot> [[Talk:location-tagging]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:location-tagging * JfbB7h * (+19642)
  59. [16:01:16] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples-in-wild-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples-in-wild-fr&diff=0&oldid=23945 * Sébastien * (+234)
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  62. [16:38:10] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end architect with rd2inc.com
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  69. [17:31:03] <jibot> jimbojw is Jim R. Wilson of http://jimbojw.com/
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  94. [19:54:57] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:JfbB7h" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  95. [19:55:08] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:PbgI5g" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  96. [19:55:09] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:hlisting-challenges": spam
  97. [19:55:15] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:location-tagging": spam
  98. [20:05:07] <mfbot> [[representative-hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=representative-hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=23946 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1028) [fr:sync'd with english version]
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  100. [20:09:09] * tantek (n=tantek@70-13-60-78.area2.spcsdns.net) has joined #microformats
  101. [20:09:09] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  102. [20:09:09] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  103. [20:12:14] <mfbot> [[representative-hcard-authoring-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard-authoring-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+2028) [fr:translation of english version]
  104. [20:12:39] <mfbot> [[representative-hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=representative-hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=23947 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1) [fr:grammar]
  105. [20:13:10] <mfbot> [[representative hCard-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/representative_hCard-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+37) #redirect [[representative-hcard-fr]]
  106. [20:17:27] <mfbot> [[rel-me-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-me-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+820) [fr:translation of english version]
  107. [20:18:18] <mfbot> [[identity-consolidation-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/identity-consolidation-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+58) #redirect [[xfn-brainstorming-fr#Consolitation_Identité]]
  108. [20:24:54] <mfbot> [[representative-hcard-parsing-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/representative-hcard-parsing-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+1413) [fr:translation of english version]
  109. [20:27:10] <mfbot> [[identity-consolidation-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=identity-consolidation-fr&diff=0&oldid=23948 * ChristopheDucamp * (+0) [fr:typo]
  110. [20:28:13] * dbaron (n=dbaron@pool-72-94-185-124.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) Quit ("8403864 bytes have been tenured, next gc will be global.")
  111. [20:30:11] <mfbot> [[representative-hcard-authoring-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=representative-hcard-authoring-fr&diff=0&oldid=23949 * ChristopheDucamp * (-1) typo
  112. [20:32:57] <mfbot> [[representative-hcard-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=representative-hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=23950 * ChristopheDucamp * (+14) cas d'utilisation - typo
  113. [20:40:24] <mfbot> [[social-network-anti-patterns-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=social-network-anti-patterns-fr&diff=0&oldid=23951 * ChristopheDucamp * (+228) [fr:sync'd with english version]
  114. [20:48:05] <mfbot> [[anti-patterns-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/anti-patterns-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+2035) [fr:sync'd with english version]
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  116. [20:57:31] <mfbot> [[presentational-html-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentational-html-fr&diff=0&oldid=23952 * ChristopheDucamp * (+706) [fr:sync'd with english version]
  117. [21:02:42] <josephholsten> did everyone see "Pentagon Pursues Mashups, Microformats for Battlefield Intel" http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2228011,00.asp
  118. [21:03:56] * blueace (n=blueace@c84048.upc-c.chello.nl) Quit ()
  119. [21:05:43] <mfbot> [[namespaces-considered-harmful-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=namespaces-considered-harmful-fr&diff=0&oldid=23953 * ChristopheDucamp * (+423) [fr:sync'd with english version]
  120. [21:06:54] <mfbot> [[namespaces-considered-harmful-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=namespaces-considered-harmful-fr&diff=0&oldid=23954 * ChristopheDucamp * (-9) typo
  121. [21:15:00] <mfbot> [[rel-bookmark-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-bookmark-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+56) #REDIRECT [[rel-design-pattern-fr#rel.3D.22bookmark.22]]
  122. [21:19:41] <mfbot> [[posh-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=posh-fr&diff=0&oldid=23955 * ChristopheDucamp * (+357) Podcasts CHIC et POSH - sync'd with english version
  123. [21:26:37] <mfbot> [[podcasts-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts-fr&diff=0&oldid=23956 * ChristopheDucamp * (+466) [fr : add link to France Culture's podcast]
  124. [21:30:17] <tantek> Given that web designers have been making up their own controlled vocabularies for class names for quite some time, and that there continues to be a strong tendency for folks to want to invent their own formats by starting with a set of class names (rather than following the microformats process), it makes sense to provide a label for such class names.
  125. [21:30:52] <tantek> Since the term POSH (plain old semantic HTML) covers the general use of semantic class names ( http://microformats.org/wiki/POSH ) ...
  126. [21:31:07] <josephholsten> POSHFORMATS!
  127. [21:31:18] <tantek> When someone makes up their own format based on semantic class names, it is only logical to call it a poshformat.
  128. [21:31:53] <tantek> josephholsten, exactly: http://twitter.com/t/statuses/535911222
  129. [21:32:07] <tantek> (as just twittered before I proposed the need here)
  130. [21:32:50] <tantek> so this way, we both have a term for the existing behavior and tendency, AND we can explain to folks why/when something is a poshformat rather than a microformat
  131. [21:33:18] <tantek> microformats are a special subset of poshformats that have been developed by following the microformats principles and process.
  132. [21:33:40] <josephholsten> micro = as simple as possible, but no simpler?
  133. [21:34:02] <tantek> that's one of the principles of microformats: http://microformats.org/wiki/principles
  134. [21:34:27] <josephholsten> poshf = full use case, generally resuable but not necessarily simple as possible?
  135. [21:35:10] <tantek> not even necessarily reusable
  136. [21:35:25] <tantek> poshformats are simply the use of semantic class names to create a format
  137. [21:36:02] <tantek> such a format may only apply to the person who invented it, or a specific site of theirs, or maybe even just one web page
  138. [21:36:25] <josephholsten> so do cases like hresume become examples of general poshformats? or is that truly at the micro level
  139. [21:36:34] <tantek> if you want reusability, interoperability, etc., then you must follow the microformats principles and process
  140. [21:36:51] <tantek> hResume was developed with microformats principles and process and is a microformat
  141. [21:39:26] <josephholsten> what's the difference between merely using posh in a document, and creating a poshformat
  142. [21:39:53] <tantek> typically when the author of that posh declares it to be a "format" of some sort
  143. [21:40:07] <tantek> this is most useful in cases where someone mistakenly calls something a microformat that isn't a microformat
  144. [21:40:25] <tantek> having the term poshformat will make it easier to point this out in such situations
  145. [21:40:50] <tantek> e.g the proposed "hRelease" (do a web search) is not a microformat, but rather a poshformat
  146. [21:41:43] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-138-198-209.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("Partying in teh intarwebs")
  147. [21:42:05] <josephholsten> ah, so should xfn and xmdp be considered microformats created outside the microformats group, or poshformats with adoption and consensus similar to microformats?
  148. [21:42:56] <tantek> it's a good question, as both were created before the term microformats was coined
  149. [21:43:34] <tantek> xfn is a microformat by way of having followed (and frankly, inspired) the microformats principles and process. lots of research was done in its development.
  150. [21:43:55] <tantek> XMDP OTOH is more of a foundational technology
  151. [21:44:16] <tantek> just as DTDs are a foundational technology for SGML, HTML, XML etc.
  152. [21:44:38] * vbgunz (n=vbgunz@217-98.127-70.tampabay.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  153. [21:44:53] <tantek> XMDP does however follow a lot of the microformats principles as well, if you read it's derivation: http://gmpg.org/xmdp/description
  154. [21:46:35] <josephholsten> okay, I thinks that's a pretty firm meaning to poshformat then. Any other microformats created outside the microformats group you can think of?
  155. [21:49:20] <tantek> there's been poshformats created at microformats.org as well, folks that have proposed class names without doing research into real world examples of content, or previous attempts at formats etc.
  156. [21:49:35] <tantek> I think this distinction will help us communicate better about it both inside the community and to folks coming to the community to understand what microformats are (and are not)
  157. [21:49:36] <josephholsten> What would it take for hrelease, or any other proposed poshformat, to become a true microformat? consensus that it is in the spirit of microformat principles, and eventual acceptance through the microformat process?
  158. [21:50:18] <tantek> following the microformats process, doing the research, documenting said research on the wiki, and developing the vocabulary through *research*, rather than a-priori invention
  159. [21:50:36] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/process
  160. [21:52:35] <josephholsten> I hadn't noticed the "do not start with even labeling you effort hXYZ"
  161. [21:52:41] <josephholsten> that's nice
  162. [21:56:36] <josephholsten> I guess the diso contact-list is a poshformat that's hoping to grow up to be a microformat someday
  163. [22:08:03] <tantek> right
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  165. [22:13:06] <mfbot> [[implementations-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations-fr&diff=0&oldid=23957 * ChristopheDucamp * (+3188) [fr:sync'd with english version]
  166. [22:24:02] <mfbot> [[implementors-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementors-fr&diff=0&oldid=23958 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1098) [fr:sync'd with english version]
  167. [22:26:04] <mfbot> [[parsing-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/parsing-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+7268) [fr: à traduire]
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  169. [22:29:15] <mfbot> [[parsing-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=parsing-fr&diff=0&oldid=23959 * ChristopheDucamp * (+31)
  170. [22:29:46] <mfbot> [[semantic xhtml-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/semantic_xhtml-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+31) #redirect [[semantic-xhtml-fr]]
  171. [22:30:37] <mfbot> [[publishing-fr]] MN http://microformats.org/wiki/publishing-fr * ChristopheDucamp * (+28) #redirect [[get-started-fr]]
  172. [22:41:28] <mfbot> [[events-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr&diff=0&oldid=23960 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1777) sync'd with english version
  173. [22:41:36] * tantek (n=tantek@70-13-60-78.area2.spcsdns.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  174. [22:42:49] <mfbot> [[events-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events-fr&diff=0&oldid=23961 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1)
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  187. [23:27:13] * lstrojny (n=lars@xdsl-87-79-227-174.netcologne.de) has joined #microformats
  188. [23:49:44] * tantek (n=tantek@70-13-57-90.area2.spcsdns.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.