IRC Log for #microformats on 2008-03-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  9. [01:02:13] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  19. [01:49:39] <romistrub> alright... who's idea was it to have name the classes for hcalendar? :P
  20. [01:49:54] <romistrub> in fact... these microformats should really have classes with namespaces
  21. [01:50:11] <romistrub> like... "summary"? Seriously? I already use that all the time in my classes
  22. [01:56:27] * dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ("durr...")
  23. [01:59:27] <romistrub> like hcal_summary
  24. [02:06:13] * adinalevin (n=adinalev@65.87.20.138) Quit ()
  25. [02:08:47] <tantek> romistrub, check out the FAQs for microformats in general and hCalendar
  26. [02:08:59] <romistrub> that's what I'm doing right now
  27. [02:09:17] <romistrub> I'm only skimming though, because it's pretty long, and I'm a slow reader :P
  28. [02:10:31] <romistrub> I want to adopt it, because it seems like a good idea... but the lack of namespacing is making it interfere with my XHTML structure
  29. [02:11:24] <romistrub> i.e. I have a list of Academic Seminars, and one of internal tags is <div class="abstract summary">
  30. [02:11:34] <romistrub> not to be confused with the title of the seminar, which is <div class="title">
  31. [02:11:43] <romistrub> now, this seemed straightforward to me :(
  32. [02:12:13] <romistrub> But the hcalendar spec talks about the title being identified with class="summary"
  33. [02:12:38] <romistrub> namespacing would fix this... and I can understand how one would want to avoid that due to its semantic drawbacks
  34. [02:12:55] <romistrub> but I can't get around it, heh
  35. [02:12:57] <tantek> namespacing causes far more problems than it fixes, so much so that we don't even bother talking about it
  36. [02:13:04] <tantek> you can use CSS contextual selectors
  37. [02:13:16] <tantek> to use a class name one way in side one class (say inside a vevent)
  38. [02:13:20] <tantek> and differently inside another
  39. [02:13:25] <tantek> that's in the microformats FAQ I believe
  40. [02:13:32] <romistrub> it's not the CSS I'm worried about
  41. [02:13:46] <romistrub> it's whatever is parsing the XHTML to find the hcalendar details
  42. [02:14:04] <romistrub> it will likely find my "abstract summary" div, if it's after the title div
  43. [02:14:12] <romistrub> unless it only takes the first :p
  44. [02:14:26] <tantek> precisely, summary is a singleton, thus parsers only take the first
  45. [02:14:41] <romistrub> duely noted :)
  46. [02:16:23] <romistrub> Is there any explanation to the problems that namespacing causes online?
  47. [02:16:36] <romistrub> I searched the wiki for "namespace" and "namespacing" but got nothing relevant
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  49. [02:21:20] <romistrub> just for clarity... I don't mean namespacing in the XML sense... just in the ... hcal_summary sense
  50. [02:21:37] <romistrub> I think that actually gives more appropriate semantic meaning
  51. [02:22:09] <romistrub> since it's saying that "this is the summary, but *only for hcal*"
  52. [02:22:17] <romistrub> that last bit is important to both human and computer readers :P
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  55. [02:31:12] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  60. [02:48:33] <jibot> bear is located near Philadelphia, PA and a Python and Ruby coder and the messaging/events/standards grunt for Seesmic
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  62. [02:49:43] <jibot> mkaply is Michael Kaply <http://www.kaply.com/weblog/> and is the developer of Operator <https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/4106/>
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  67. [03:16:31] <romistrub> Okay, I've looked around, and this issue has not been adequately addressed, as far as I could fine
  68. [03:16:33] <romistrub> *find
  69. [03:17:18] <romistrub> What if there are two conflicting classes for microformats?
  70. [03:17:27] <romistrub> "summary" immediately springs to mind
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  72. [03:20:12] <romistrub> I'm trying hard to understand, but I can't imagine a single problem in using hcal_summary, etc.
  73. [03:20:22] <romistrub> it would make the markup more meaningful
  74. [03:20:28] * romistrub rants rants rants
  75. [03:22:11] <romistrub> it's... it's *tomfoolery*, I say! :)
  76. [03:25:18] * csarven (i=csarven@on-irc.csarven.ca) Quit ("http://www.csarven.ca")
  77. [03:30:13] <romistrub> is there any way to include data in a property that isn't visible in the browser, without resorting to CSS?
  78. [03:30:33] <romistrub> For example... on a Seminars page, everybody knows that the events listed are seminars
  79. [03:31:28] <romistrub> so, while the title on the page might be "Quantum Infrared and Terahertz Semiconductor Devices", the summary, in the absolute context, would be "Seminar on Quantum Infrared and Terahertz Semiconductor Devices"
  80. [03:32:14] <romistrub> It changes depending on context
  81. [03:37:13] <romistrub> does the <abbr> method work only for dates?
  82. [03:39:45] * romistrub lurks
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  87. [05:05:33] <mfbot> [[s5-tools]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=s5-tools&diff=0&oldid=26394 * GeraldBauer * (+63) S5 Tools -
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  103. [08:33:31] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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  110. [09:55:01] <mfbot> [[firefox-extensions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=firefox-extensions&diff=0&oldid=26395 * Andrew * (+32) Added info about hReview operator script
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  120. [11:45:08] <jibot> iand is Ian Davis who blogs at http://iandavis.com/blog
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  123. [11:54:18] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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  137. [14:35:17] <mfbot> [[figure]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=figure&diff=0&oldid=26396 * TobyInk * (+81) Minimisation - Tim White's suggestion re: alt attribute compromise.
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  140. [14:41:53] <mfbot> [[figure]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=figure&diff=0&oldid=26397 * TobyInk * (+128) Key - RFC 2119, clarify language, etc
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  147. [15:57:46] <jibot> madness is a freelance web developer from Bournemouth, Dorset, UK. His online home is at http://www.markng.co.uk/
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  160. [17:07:57] <jibot> BenWard is Ben Ward of http://ben-ward.co.uk ( 0000/ 0100 GMT)
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  164. [17:24:28] <mfbot> [[representative-hcard-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=representative-hcard-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=26398 * TobyInk * (+786) Author hCard / Contact hCard
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  172. [18:07:18] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  184. [19:08:17] <mfbot> [[history-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=history-examples&diff=0&oldid=26399 * JeremyBoggs * (+179) HTML-based Timelines -
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  187. [20:01:52] * met_ (n=Hassman@r5bx220.net.upc.cz) Quit ("Chemists never die, they just stop reacting.")
  188. [20:05:24] * mefisto (i=mef`@81.198.31.42) Quit ("Leaving")
  189. [21:10:08] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  190. [21:10:54] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  191. [21:11:27] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  192. [21:13:19] <tobyink> ?def tobyink is Toby Inkster <http://tobyinkster.co.uk/>, author of Cognition <http://buzzword.org.uk/cognition/>
  193. [21:13:19] <jibot> tobyink is Toby Inkster <http://tobyinkster.co.uk/>, author of Cognition <http://buzzword.org.uk/cognition/>
  194. [21:13:19] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  195. [21:23:53] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  196. [21:23:54] <jibot> tobyink is Toby Inkster <http://tobyinkster.co.uk/>, author of Cognition <http://buzzword.org.uk/cognition/>
  197. [21:26:35] <mfbot> [[irc-people]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc-people&diff=0&oldid=26400 * TobyInk * (+43) Me
  198. [21:26:37] * Phae (n=user@82-44-60-36.cable.ubr01.mort.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  199. [21:27:02] * Phae (n=user@82-44-60-36.cable.ubr01.mort.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  200. [21:27:02] * ChanServ sets mode +o Phae
  201. [22:40:15] <mfbot> [[User:TobyInk]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TobyInk&diff=0&oldid=26401 * TobyInk * (+347) Little changes
  202. [22:44:01] <mfbot> [[User:TobyInk]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:TobyInk&diff=0&oldid=26402 * TobyInk * (+5) About me - Reformat.
  203. [23:05:02] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) Quit ("Leaving")
  204. [23:18:20] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-138-199-53.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) Quit ("Partying in teh intarwebs")
  205. [23:20:37] * milkmiruku (n=milk@zotz.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  206. [23:40:08] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-074-229-248-021.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  207. [23:40:08] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  208. [23:40:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
  209. [23:52:42] * illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

See http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot for more information.