IRC Log for #microformats on 2008-06-08
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:12:45] <mfbot>
[[hcards-and-pages]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/hcards-and-pages * Tantek * (+3262) drafted starting with material from [[representative-hcard]]
- [00:13:16] <mfbot>
[[representative-hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=representative-hcard&diff=0&oldid=27272 * Tantek * (+68) hcards and pages
- [00:14:27] <mfbot>
[[hcard-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=27273 * Tantek * (+127) see also hCards and pages
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- [00:21:09] <mfbot>
[[hcard-faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=27274 * Tantek * (-4) fix blog URL
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- [00:37:55] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=27275 * Tantek * (+806) hAtom misuses address element
- [00:39:46] <mfbot>
[[hcards-and-pages]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcards-and-pages&diff=0&oldid=27276 * Tantek * (+85) hAtom misuses address element
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- [03:31:27] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [03:40:29] <jibot>
bluesmoon is Philip <http://bluesmoon.info> & improves performance at Yahoo! & likes food & hacking & lives in the valley
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- [10:01:32] <mfbot>
[[introduction-lt]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction-lt * Aurelijus * (+2291)
- [10:02:33] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-lt]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-lt&diff=0&oldid=27277 * Aurelijus * (+3)
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- [10:08:45] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [10:19:31] <mfbot>
[[User:Aurelijus]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Aurelijus * Aurelijus * (+428)
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- [11:05:50] <mfbot>
[[Main Page-lt]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-lt&diff=0&oldid=27278 * Aurelijus * (-42)
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- [11:32:12] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27279 * Vantguarde * (+1235) Sync: 09:02, 2 May 2008
- [11:44:48] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27280 * Vantguarde * (-200)
- [11:50:25] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27281 * Vantguarde * (+2) adr tel email types -
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- [11:57:11] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27282 * Vantguarde * (+429) adr tel email types - added a note that many subtypes are not be able to use in Japanese due to the "human readable" principle. that really sucks...
- [12:02:37] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27283 * Vantguarde * (+340) "n" の推測処理 - added a note that this opitimization doesn't work for Japanese names and authors need to explicitly markup their names with given-name and family-name.
- [12:14:18] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27284 * Vantguarde * (+184) "n" の推測処理 -
- [12:14:49] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27285 * Vantguarde * (+8) プロパティリスト -
- [12:15:15] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27286 * Vantguarde * (-7) プロパティリスト -
- [12:33:38] <mfbot>
[[hcard-ja]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-ja&diff=0&oldid=27287 * Vantguarde * (-98) adr tel email types -
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- [12:59:45] <mfbot>
[[User:Aurelijus]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Aurelijus&diff=0&oldid=27288 * Aurelijus * (+97) <span class="fn">Aurelijus Valeiša</span> -
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- [13:30:32] <jibot>
julianstahnke is a German front-end dev for Last.fm and lives in London and wants a play button next to every mentioning of an audio track on the internet
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- [14:06:49] <bogdanlazarsb>
are there some plugins that detect microformats for opera or for internet explorer ? like tails export in firefox
- [14:09:41] * alsuren (i=dl325@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk) has joined #microformats
- [14:17:20] <alsuren>
This has probably been brought up thousands of times before, but my google-craft is finding very little...
- [14:18:34] <alsuren>
Can someone explain why you can't make parsers use strptime to parse dates?
- [14:21:24] <alsuren>
something like <span class="strptime: %d %m %Y " > 16 03 2008 </span>
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- [14:23:58] <alsuren>
I mean: you could parse that in about 3 lines of python or php, and can be extended to be human-readable in any language (see http://docs.python.org/lib/module-time.html )
- [14:24:26] <alsuren>
(table about half way down the page)
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- [14:28:20] <mfbot>
[[machine-data]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=machine-data&diff=0&oldid=27289 * TobyInk * (+866) Other Proposals - Correction re data pattern.
- [14:29:37] <alsuren>
Also, it satisfies your "don't duplicate data, and don't hide data": All you're doing is telling the parser stuff that a human would be able to infer easily
- [14:34:42] <mfbot>
[[hcards-and-pages]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcards-and-pages&diff=0&oldid=27290 * TobyInk * (+201) Implementations
- [14:45:59] <bogdanlazarsb>
if you write .. class="strptime something something something" the browser reads like 4 classes i think..
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- [14:47:10] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
- [14:49:34] <alsuren>
bogdanlazarsb: there is already class="fn n" or something (to be honest, I'm really not a web developer: I'm a python programmer, so I don't know the limitations of browsers)
- [14:50:31] <gsnedders>
alsuren: Yeah, but in that case, the order doesn't matter
- [14:50:44] <gsnedders>
alsuren: "fn n" and "n fn" have the same meaning
- [14:51:24] <gsnedders>
alsuren: "%d %Y strptime: %m" means something totally different to "strptime: %d %m %Y"
- [14:52:09] <gsnedders>
alsuren: You have to be able to extract the meaning having randomly sorted the list of space separated classes
- [14:53:49] <alsuren>
gsnedders: oh: I thought that microformats were meant to be read by spider scripts or something, which can avoid the limitations of browsers
- [14:54:11] <gsnedders>
alsuren: The spiders still need to follow the same specs as the browsers
- [14:54:16] <alsuren>
</naive>
- [14:54:36] <gsnedders>
alsuren: It doesn't matter what the user agent is: the order of things in @class is irrelevant
- [14:55:07] * alsuren reads the spec
- [14:56:05] <gsnedders>
(oh, and regarding specs: HTML 5 is far more useful than HTML 4, as the latter is so vague)
- [14:56:53] <alsuren>
so you would need something horrible like <span class="strptime: 1%d 2%m 3%Y " > 16 03 2008 </span>?
- [14:57:23] <gsnedders>
alsuren: I suppose you could do something like that.
- [14:58:16] <gsnedders>
alsuren: It'd be easier to just use an RFC3339 date in @class though, or abbr@title
- [15:00:24] <alsuren>
gsnedders: apart from the fact that it requires duplication and/or hiding of information, and breaks screen readers
- [15:00:41] <gsnedders>
alsuren: I am aware.
- [15:02:18] <alsuren>
tell you what: shall I see if I can write a parser in 5 lines of python and post it in the discussion section of the wiki?
- [15:03:04] * gsnedders has been so out of touch of µf for so long he can't answer that :P
- [15:04:00] <alsuren>
I'll go for something of the form <span class="strptime _%d_%m_%Y_" > 16 03 2008 </span> and just do it. Shouldn't break anything
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- [15:42:01] <bogdanlazarsb>
ok, so who's helping me ? are there or are there not widgets or plugins for other browsers than firefox (like opera or IE) ? :)
- [16:00:32] <alsuren>
bogdanlazarsb: are you talking about desktop/dashboard style widgets?
- [16:03:12] <alsuren>
if so, then dashboard=safari(webkit) widgets; there are "opera widgets"; konqueror has an extensions system, but nobody uses it
- [16:04:06] <alsuren>
most browsers use the netscape compatible plugin system (certainly on linux, anyway)
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- [16:11:03] <mfbot>
[[datetime-design-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=datetime-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=27291 * DavidLaban * (+1779) Discussion - Proposed use of strptime
- [16:13:07] <alsuren>
gsnedders: 4 lines of code for encoding, 5 lines for decoding, as promised, and posted to the wiki :D
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- [16:16:30] <gsnedders>
alsuren: Five lines? Peh!
- [16:20:25] <alsuren>
'tis a good compromise: shorter than the 20-odd line regexp for the existing format, and much clearer/more robust than the 1-liner that I *could* have posted.
- [16:37:53] <tantek>
alsuren, the larger problem is that you are asking web authors to think like programmers, which severely limits the number of web authors which will be able to use the technique
- [16:38:12] <tantek>
in general, any publishing method tw<trequires the author to think like a programmer is a non-starter
- [16:38:57] <tantek>
much more of a barrier than simply using RFC3339, and that barrier is a far worse tradeoff than the duplication
- [16:41:28] <alsuren>
tantek: I guess we could have some friendly names for common formats
- [16:43:21] <tantek>
across how many cultures and languages?
- [16:43:39] <alsuren>
the underlying idea behind my proposal is that human readable dates aren't *that* difficult to parse reliably, as long as we know what format they're in
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- [16:53:01] <mfbot>
[[datetime-design-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=datetime-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=27292 * Tantek * (+1078) moved alternative proposal to separate section, noted problems
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- [19:02:53] <jibot>
bluesmoon is Philip <http://bluesmoon.info> & improves performance at Yahoo! & likes food & hacking & lives in the valley
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- [19:40:29] <jibot>
tommorris is a semantic web geek (with a philosophy degree, naturally), lives in East Sussex, UK, is something of a strange quark (strangeness value: -1) and blogs at http://tommorris.org
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- [19:48:19] <jibot>
julianstahnke is a German front-end dev for Last.fm and lives in London and wants a play button next to every mentioning of an audio track on the internet
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- [19:50:03] <tommorris>
just seen this - http://www.profy.com/ - that logo looks *familiar* ;)
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- [19:57:48] <jibot>
bear is located near Philadelphia, PA and a Python and Ruby coder and the messaging/events/standards grunt for Seesmic
- [19:58:15] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=27293 * Yde * (+7) Schema proposal - Changed formatting to make the list more compact and easier to read.
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- [20:14:48] <jibot>
gsnedders is a mad teenager from Scotland who occasionally blogs at <http://geoffers.uni.cc/>
- [20:21:43] <mfbot>
[[datetime-design-pattern]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=datetime-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=27294 * TobyInk * (+240) strtime instructions as class names - HTML 4.01 spec ref
- [21:09:02] <mfbot>
[[datetime-design-pattern]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=datetime-design-pattern&diff=0&oldid=27295 * TobyInk * (+290) strtime instructions as class names -
- [21:16:38] <mfbot>
[[recipe-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=recipe-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=27296 * Yde * (+57) Additional Suggestions -
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- [23:02:16] * cygri (n=cygri@83.141.79.111) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:03:53] * illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) Quit ()
- [23:25:27] * bluesmoon (n=philip@c-69-181-144-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:25:27] <jibot>
bluesmoon is Philip <http://bluesmoon.info> & improves performance at Yahoo! & likes food & hacking & lives in the valley
- [23:32:47] * illustir (n=alper@s55912056.adsl.wanadoo.nl) has joined #microformats
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