IRC Log for #microformats on 2009-01-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:04] * christopheducamp (n=christop@APuteaux-551-1-34-15.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:00:27] * christopheducamp (n=christop@APuteaux-551-1-34-15.w90-62.abo.wanadoo.fr) Quit (Client Quit)
  3. [00:03:02] * redmonk (n=redmonk@ip68-104-180-227.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit ()
  4. [00:09:28] * levitation[A] (n=levitati@digi.physic.ut.ee) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  5. [00:14:10] * SignpostMarv (n=Martin@78.33.151.156) has joined #microformats
  6. [00:14:10] * levitation[A] (n=levitati@digi.physic.ut.ee) has joined #microformats
  7. [00:18:02] * georgebrock (n=georgebr@client-80-3-170-113.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #microformats
  8. [00:19:32] * georgebrock_ (n=georgebr@client-80-3-170-113.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net) has joined #microformats
  9. [00:19:32] * georgebrock (n=georgebr@client-80-3-170-113.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer))
  10. [00:21:15] * SignpostMarv checks if anyone is awake to talk about inconsistencies between various microformat parsers
  11. [00:33:37] * benward (n=benward@adsl-75-59-192-116.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  12. [00:33:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o benward
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  14. [01:02:07] * tantek (n=tantek@c-67-161-5-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  15. [01:08:57] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #microformats
  16. [01:19:54] * tantek (n=tantek@c-67-161-5-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  17. [01:19:55] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  18. [01:48:37] * Broady_ (n=broady@unaffiliated/broady) has joined #microformats
  19. [01:57:13] * benward (n=benward@adsl-75-59-192-116.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("Shutdown")
  20. [01:58:18] * Broady (n=broady@unaffiliated/broady) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  21. [02:02:49] * tantek_ (n=tantek@c-67-161-5-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  22. [02:19:32] * tantek__ (n=tantek@c-67-161-5-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  23. [02:20:09] * tantek (n=tantek@c-67-161-5-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  24. [02:30:29] * benward (n=benward@c-98-210-153-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  25. [02:30:29] * ChanServ sets mode +o benward
  26. [02:31:16] * tantek__ is now known as tantek
  27. [02:31:18] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  28. [02:32:38] * georgebrock_ (n=georgebr@client-80-3-170-113.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net) Quit ()
  29. [02:33:52] * tantek (n=tantek@c-67-161-5-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ()
  30. [02:35:35] * tantek_ (n=tantek@c-67-161-5-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  31. [02:53:44] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  32. [02:53:44] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  33. [03:18:16] * Marv (n=Martin@78.33.151.156) has joined #microformats
  34. [03:32:04] * benward (n=benward@c-98-210-153-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("Shutdown")
  35. [03:35:39] * SignpostMarv (n=Martin@78.33.151.156) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  36. [04:18:03] * levitation[A] (n=levitati@digi.physic.ut.ee) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  37. [04:18:03] * Danny_B (n=Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  38. [04:18:03] * NetersLandreau (n=NetersLa@b2.e6.354a.static.theplanet.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  39. [04:18:03] * shawn (n=shawn@208-78-98-92.slicehost.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  40. [04:18:03] * thuddwhirr (n=wolthuis@mimezine.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  41. [04:18:03] * yvesr_ (n=moustaki@87-194-36-82.bethere.co.uk) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  42. [04:18:03] * jkridner (n=jason@c-76-31-18-64.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  43. [04:18:03] * Hixie (i=ianh@trivini.no) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  44. [04:18:03] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  45. [04:18:03] * Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  46. [04:18:03] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  47. [04:18:04] * Marv (n=Martin@78.33.151.156) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  48. [04:18:04] * Broady_ (n=broady@unaffiliated/broady) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  49. [04:18:04] * termie (i=andy@208.78.244.32) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  50. [04:18:04] * Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@DHCP-150-138.resnet.ua.edu) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  51. [04:18:04] * imme-emosol (n=imme@unaffiliated/immeemosol) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  52. [04:18:04] * theanxy (n=wzajac@student.agh.edu.pl) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  53. [04:18:04] * iwaim (n=iwaim@gateway.alib.jp) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  54. [04:18:04] * Zeeshan_M (i=develope@o.je) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  55. [04:18:04] * manveru (n=manveru@p4158-ipbf1507marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  56. [04:18:04] * BobJonkman (n=BobJonkm@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  57. [04:18:04] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-136-52-180.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  58. [04:18:04] * Politoed (i=Theorem@a81-84-96-248.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  59. [04:18:04] * CaptSolo (i=captsolo@kaste.lv) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  60. [04:18:04] * RobotDeathSquad (n=RobotDea@75-175-36-22.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  61. [04:18:04] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  62. [04:18:04] * mef (n=mef`@zelli-kojas.lanet.lv) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  63. [04:18:04] * jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  64. [04:18:04] * knmurphy (n=knmurphy@newyork.elliotmurphy.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  65. [04:18:04] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  66. [04:18:04] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-66-68-50-244.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  67. [04:18:04] * _emp_ (n=alex@rakim.cfhp.org) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  68. [04:18:04] * Cloud_ (n=Cloud@vmlion01.deri.ie) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  69. [04:18:51] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  70. [04:18:51] * Marv (n=Martin@78.33.151.156) has joined #microformats
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  72. [04:18:51] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #microformats
  73. [04:18:51] * levitation[A] (n=levitati@digi.physic.ut.ee) has joined #microformats
  74. [04:18:51] * Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) has joined #microformats
  75. [04:18:51] * imme-emosol (n=imme@unaffiliated/immeemosol) has joined #microformats
  76. [04:18:51] * yvesr_ (n=moustaki@87-194-36-82.bethere.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  77. [04:18:51] * BobJonkman (n=BobJonkm@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) has joined #microformats
  78. [04:18:51] * mef (n=mef`@zelli-kojas.lanet.lv) has joined #microformats
  79. [04:18:51] * jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) has joined #microformats
  80. [04:18:51] * Danny_B (n=Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) has joined #microformats
  81. [04:18:51] * theanxy (n=wzajac@student.agh.edu.pl) has joined #microformats
  82. [04:18:51] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-66-68-50-244.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  83. [04:18:51] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-136-52-180.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  84. [04:18:51] * knmurphy (n=knmurphy@newyork.elliotmurphy.com) has joined #microformats
  85. [04:18:51] * termie (i=andy@208.78.244.32) has joined #microformats
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  87. [04:18:51] * jkridner (n=jason@c-76-31-18-64.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  88. [04:18:51] * _emp_ (n=alex@rakim.cfhp.org) has joined #microformats
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  90. [04:18:51] * iwaim (n=iwaim@gateway.alib.jp) has joined #microformats
  91. [04:18:51] * NetersLandreau (n=NetersLa@b2.e6.354a.static.theplanet.com) has joined #microformats
  92. [04:18:51] * thuddwhirr (n=wolthuis@mimezine.com) has joined #microformats
  93. [04:18:51] * shawn (n=shawn@208-78-98-92.slicehost.net) has joined #microformats
  94. [04:18:51] * Politoed (i=Theorem@a81-84-96-248.cpe.netcabo.pt) has joined #microformats
  95. [04:18:51] * Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@DHCP-150-138.resnet.ua.edu) has joined #microformats
  96. [04:18:51] * Zeeshan_M (i=develope@o.je) has joined #microformats
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  102. [04:22:39] * RobotDeathSquad (n=RobotDea@75-175-36-22.ptld.qwest.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  103. [04:22:39] * ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  104. [04:22:39] * NetersLandreau (n=NetersLa@b2.e6.354a.static.theplanet.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  105. [04:22:39] * shawn (n=shawn@208-78-98-92.slicehost.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  106. [04:22:39] * Danny_B (n=Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  107. [04:22:39] * levitation[A] (n=levitati@digi.physic.ut.ee) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  108. [04:22:39] * thuddwhirr (n=wolthuis@mimezine.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  109. [04:22:39] * yvesr_ (n=moustaki@87-194-36-82.bethere.co.uk) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  110. [04:22:39] * Hixie (i=ianh@trivini.no) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  111. [04:22:39] * jkridner (n=jason@c-76-31-18-64.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  112. [04:22:39] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  113. [04:22:40] * Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  114. [04:22:40] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  115. [04:22:40] * Marv (n=Martin@78.33.151.156) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  116. [04:22:40] * Broady_ (n=broady@unaffiliated/broady) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  117. [04:22:40] * termie (i=andy@208.78.244.32) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  118. [04:22:40] * Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@DHCP-150-138.resnet.ua.edu) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  120. [04:22:40] * imme-emosol (n=imme@unaffiliated/immeemosol) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  121. [04:22:40] * Zeeshan_M (i=develope@o.je) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  123. [04:22:40] * manveru (n=manveru@p4158-ipbf1507marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  124. [04:22:40] * Politoed (i=Theorem@a81-84-96-248.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  125. [04:22:40] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-136-52-180.range86-136.btcentralplus.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  126. [04:22:40] * CaptSolo (i=captsolo@kaste.lv) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  127. [04:22:40] * BobJonkman (n=BobJonkm@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  128. [04:22:40] * knmurphy (n=knmurphy@newyork.elliotmurphy.com) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  129. [04:22:40] * jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  130. [04:22:40] * mef (n=mef`@zelli-kojas.lanet.lv) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  131. [04:22:40] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  133. [04:22:40] * Cloud_ (n=Cloud@vmlion01.deri.ie) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  134. [04:22:40] * _emp_ (n=alex@rakim.cfhp.org) Quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  135. [04:25:32] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
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  146. [04:25:32] * Danny_B (n=Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) has joined #microformats
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  181. [07:24:28] <benward> Does anyone know where the inverse page of ‘social-network-anti-patterns’ is on the wiki? I'm looking for a page filled with good examples of _best practice_ on social networks.
  182. [07:24:55] <benward> (It's not linked off the anti-pattern page Related Pages, if it's there)
  183. [07:43:37] * pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl) has joined #microformats
  184. [07:50:54] <Marv> I'm guessing this would be a list of examples that've implemented the stuff listed in social-network-portability ?
  185. [07:51:24] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  186. [07:52:39] <benward> I guess so. I'm assuming that probably have an equivalent ‘praise’ page for the criticisms, but it's buried :/
  187. [07:55:21] <Marv> perhaps people don't think about the good examples because the definition of a good example is something thats so intuitive that you don't notice ?
  188. [07:55:54] <Marv> whereas annoyances are counter-intuitive and are easily noticeable
  189. [07:56:01] <benward> Well. I'm thinking of things like User Voice, where I sign in with my OpenID, and when I bounch back, it already knows my name and email address from my hCard.
  190. [07:56:36] <benward> And yes, you're right that's much easier to criticise the bad.
  191. [07:56:40] <tantek> yes the inverse of the anti-patterns page is the social-network-portability page
  192. [07:57:03] <Marv> hrm. I'm wondering if my site is in danger of going over "join to fix your profile"
  193. [07:57:27] <Marv> I'm currently in the process of adding stuff to expand the list of information sources about an individual
  194. [07:57:55] * Marv is taking the policy of refusing to use any source that cannot be authenticated as belonging to that person, even if I know personally that it does
  195. [07:58:45] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
  196. [07:59:40] <Marv> since the purpose of logging in would be to expand the data made available (data that could not be obtained without the individual's interaction), not correct the data about them, does that count as "join to fix your profile" ?
  197. [08:00:24] <benward> Not if they can go back to your source of their data and correct that and have it propogate
  198. [08:00:39] <benward> It's a difficult thing to do without it seeming creepy though
  199. [08:01:19] <benward> Critically, I'm advocating that where you have data crawled and aggregated like that, make the source clear to the user (whether they be a member or not)
  200. [08:02:07] <Marv> the data isn't so much aggregated as restructured and cross-referenced.
  201. [08:02:08] <benward> See: http://www.digital-web.com/articles/portable_social_networks_building_blocks_of_a_social_web/ and find-in-page down to the ‘Aside: A note about terrifying your users’ heading :)
  202. [08:02:24] <Marv> the original source doesn't use any semantics whatsoever
  203. [08:02:56] <Marv> the majority of the data is just 1:1 mapping with microformats applied
  204. [08:03:08] * hustin (n=hustin@cpe-69-207-253-108.maine.res.rr.com) Quit ()
  205. [08:03:43] <benward> I see. Well, I think the critical thing is that so long as the user can change the original location of that data and have your site update, you're being a Good Citizen. But making clear where the info came from is vital in that.
  206. [08:04:18] <Marv> the original source is typically linked via <link rel="alternate" href="{url to original source}"
  207. [08:04:47] <Marv> so I'm not sure the "making it clear" part is covered
  208. [08:05:15] <benward> I'm meaning it as part of the user interfaace
  209. [08:06:03] <benward> If it's a profile listing my name and avatar, it should say ‘Source: ben-ward.co.uk’, if you list my nickname as ‘Shovel’ it should say ‘source: last.fm’
  210. [08:06:13] * Marv pastebins some examples so you can give feedback on what you mean
  211. [08:06:18] <benward> Sure :)
  212. [08:07:24] <Marv> while I have you attention and I'm building the pastebin, could I poke you for thoughts on inconsistencies between various microformats parsers ?
  213. [08:09:16] <benward> Some are more complete/up-to-date than others, basically
  214. [08:09:44] <Marv> I've mentioned this to tantek previously, he suggested running the document through a validator to see if the parsers were just more strict with error handling
  215. [08:10:15] <Marv> Operator detects the events in a document I generate dynamically, whereas the X2V tool on Suda.co.uk and the Technorati feeds tool both fail to detect them
  216. [08:10:31] <Marv> http://svc.sl.marvulous.co.uk/viewer%20downloads/
  217. [08:11:47] <tantek> Marv, that's because Operator acts on the DOM after browser processing of scripts, whereas X2V acts only on the markup.
  218. [08:11:58] <benward> When you say generate dynamically you mean with JavaScript?
  219. [08:12:04] <Marv> PHP
  220. [08:12:23] <tantek> similarly Operator can detect microformats in password protected pages when viewed, whereas X2V, lacking access, can't
  221. [08:12:33] <Marv> it's generated by XPath/regex scraping Amazon S3 buckets and Apache directory lists
  222. [08:12:49] <benward> Oh, well if it'
  223. [08:12:55] <Marv> dumped into a smarty template
  224. [08:13:20] <benward> Oh, well if it's published to the page using PHP then it should be present for X2V. Must be an issue in the mark-up you;re putting out, Will take a look in asec
  225. [08:13:20] <Marv> so the document is "static", but not generated by a human
  226. [08:15:12] <Marv> I'm wondering if its related to the use of the include pattern :-s
  227. [08:15:22] <Marv> (which I'm never sure if I'm using right)
  228. [08:17:32] <Marv> bah
  229. [08:17:37] <Marv> pastebin tripped the spam filter
  230. [08:18:16] <Marv> http://pastebin.ca/1309909
  231. [08:26:04] <Marv> ah yes, that reminds me
  232. [08:26:07] <Marv> Pingerati
  233. [08:26:26] <Marv> Unless they've added it back in the last several months, Eventful doesn't have a ping service any more
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  242. [09:09:26] <Marv> wb, tantek
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  248. [10:51:48] * Marv pokes people at http://twitter.com/SignpostMarv/statuses/1123397105
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  263. [14:47:27] <mfbot> ThomasLoertsch edited hrecipe-issues "/* issues */ " (+4021) http://is.gd/g7bb
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  267. [15:13:22] <mfbot> ThomasLoertsch edited hrecipe-issues "/* issues */ " (-163) http://is.gd/g7lp
  268. [15:16:21] <mfbot> ThomasLoertsch edited hrecipe-issues "/* issues */ " (-17) http://is.gd/g7mD
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  302. [19:03:09] <_andy__> i get an error message with the firefox plugin "operator" when parsing my hevent, is someone willing to help?
  303. [19:06:03] <_andy__> somebody active?
  304. [19:07:14] * _andy__ (n=andreas@41-178.77-83.cust.bluewin.ch) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
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  309. [19:24:54] <mfbot> Curtis edited firefox-extensions "" (+160) http://is.gd/g92i
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  315. [20:09:47] <mfbot> Curtis edited firefox-extensions "/* Giftag */ " (-4) http://is.gd/g9qB
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  330. [22:12:33] <Atamido> I'm looking for ways to represent an email header using microformats.
  331. [22:12:44] <Atamido> Obviously the hcard would be used.
  332. [22:12:52] <Atamido> But I'm wondering if there is anything else.
  333. [22:13:06] * MrTopf (n=cs@pD9EBC091.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit ()
  334. [22:13:31] <Atamido> Subject, Message ID, etc.
  335. [22:17:12] <tantek> hAtom ?
  336. [22:17:17] <tantek> subject = entry-summary
  337. [22:17:23] <tantek> messageID = permalink
  338. [22:18:23] <Atamido> Oooh, clever.
  339. [22:18:58] <Atamido> If I have a mailto: link with someone's name, how do I label that?
  340. [22:19:42] * Atamido is really rusty.
  341. [22:20:47] <tobyink> <span class="vcard"><a href="mailto:..." class="fn email">...</a></span>
  342. [22:21:42] <Atamido> Thanks, my brain is a bit fried right now.
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  344. [22:22:46] * ChanServ sets mode +o benward
  345. [22:22:47] <Atamido> I've had to build a listserv archive system in PHP and I'm going through consolidating all of my code, and it just occurred to me that I should be using microformats on all of this.
  346. [22:22:54] * MrTopf (n=cs@pD9EBC091.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #microformats
  347. [22:25:05] <Atamido> I have an XOXO tree with this information: [Message subject <link to message>] [Message author] [Message date]
  348. [22:25:43] <tantek> sounds perfect for hAtom
  349. [22:28:57] <Atamido> Would I only have the root of the XOXO be an HFEED?
  350. [22:30:17] <tobyink> You could use class="hfeed xoxo", but the "hfeed" element is optional - if a bunch of hentrys are found on a page, the whole page is assumed to be an hfeed.
  351. [22:33:04] <Atamido> Can an hentry contain another hentry?
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  353. [22:34:01] <tobyink> most parsers should be able to cope with it.
  354. [22:35:26] <tobyink> tantek: not sure about message-id = permalink. Message-IDs aren't URIs.
  355. [22:35:47] <tantek> tobyink indeed. more like ~
  356. [22:35:57] <tantek> you could make a message-id into a URI
  357. [22:37:17] <tobyink> and why hasn't anyone done this with microformats.org/discuss? ;-)
  358. [22:37:20] <Atamido> According to the SMTP specs, the MessageID should be unique to a single email in the entire world.
  359. [22:37:50] <tantek> tobyink - that's an excellent point
  360. [22:38:10] <tantek> I suppose because no one has bothered to patch mailman archive code to do so
  361. [22:38:21] <tantek> however - sounds like a good suggestion to add to /wiki/to-do
  362. [22:38:36] <tantek> microformatted email list web archives would be a good thing
  363. [22:39:15] <tobyink> I can take a look at doing it if you like.
  364. [22:41:28] <Atamido> So, MessageID is what now?
  365. [22:41:53] * ajturner (n=ajturner@209.155.228.129) Quit ()
  366. [22:45:00] <tobyink> If you can make Message-ID into a link, e.g. http://mysite.example/search?messageid=foo@bar.baz, then use rel=bookmark to make it into a permalink. Otherwise just mark it up as e.g. <span class="uid">foo@bar.baz</span> (uid taken from hCalendar)
  367. [22:46:38] <Atamido> Well, it is a link, but the link will likely change.
  368. [22:46:50] <Atamido> I mean, the host will.
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  370. [22:47:50] <tantek> tobyink I believe W3C mail archives make message-IDs into permalinks
  371. [22:48:52] <mfbot> Allthatmalarkey edited hcard "" (+167) http://is.gd/gaws
  372. [22:49:31] <tobyink> they don't link them in their archives, but they do have a message-id lookup tool somewhere.
  373. [22:49:43] <tantek> the messages have a header for the permalink
  374. [22:52:22] * hustin (n=hustin@cpe-69-207-253-108.maine.res.rr.com) Quit ()
  375. [22:53:51] <tobyink> though i can't find the lookup tool now.
  376. [22:53:58] <tantek> e.g.
  377. [22:54:00] <tantek> Archived-At: <http://www.w3.org/mid/496E4D7D.6040605@inkedblade.net>
  378. [22:54:10] <tobyink> that's the one
  379. [22:55:11] <tobyink> it's not linked from the html archives though.
  380. [22:56:02] <tobyink> though the message-id header itself is shown
  381. [22:56:13] * redmonk_ (n=redmonk@204.9.180.30) has joined #microformats
  382. [22:56:53] <tantek> right
  383. [23:00:06] <tobyink> looks like mailman is pretty easy to customise archives - http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emailman-coders/mailman/2.2/annotate/head%3A/templates/en/article.html
  384. [23:01:40] * MrTopf (n=cs@pD9EBC091.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (No route to host)
  385. [23:03:04] <mfbot> Yde edited hrecipe-issues "/* issues */ Added comment about "recipe-title"/"fn"" (+288) http://is.gd/gaBt
  386. [23:09:47] * redmonk (n=redmonk@204.9.180.30) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  387. [23:10:43] * Prometheus (n=promethe@unaffiliated/prometheus) Quit ("Blimey!")
  388. [23:18:20] * tobyink (n=tai@ophelia.g5n.co.uk) has left #microformats
  389. [23:23:40] * kingryan (n=kingryan@adsl-99-27-42-97.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  390. [23:23:40] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  391. [23:32:31] * Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  392. [23:33:06] <mfbot> Yde edited hrecipe-issues "/* issues */ Reuse "description" instead of "method"?" (+350) http://is.gd/gaLu
  393. [23:42:31] * benward (n=benward@c-98-210-153-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("Shutdown")
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  398. [23:54:06] * redmonk_ (n=redmonk@204.9.180.30) Quit ()
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