IRC Log for #microformats on 2009-11-04
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [14:57:59] <abernier>
hi chan
- [15:00:44] <abernier>
I've now have a bookshelf http://abernier.name/books/ and I'd like to make a feed of it, so people can subscribe to my shelf... I thought to do it with hatom, but the problem is I don't want to make any other information appear on my shelf, especially a published/updated date which seems required with hatom... what is my solution to do this without any published/updated date?
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- [19:49:05] <DanC>
hmm... uf wiki has gone gotta-login-to-edit? sigh.
- [19:51:16] <danbri>
it's all the rage
- [19:51:44] <danbri>
hey DanC, whatever became of your openid whitelist experiments ...? got an urls we can trade?
- [19:52:44] <tantek>
DanC - yes - was necessary to require logins due to spammers
- [19:54:02] <danbri>
barcamp wiki was suffering too
- [19:54:16] <danbri>
it's awful, eating away at everything; directly or (by making edits harder) indirectly
- [19:56:49] <DanC>
*and* a captcha, even though I'm logged in.
- [19:57:18] <DanC>
hmm... what happened to the bot that used to announce edits here?
- [19:57:52] <DanC>
tantek, http://microformats.org/wiki/mobile#Sidekick as requested
- [19:58:19] <DanC>
the neurocommons wiki works the same way... login + captcha when you add links
- [19:58:32] <DanC>
what sort of urls do you want, danbri?
- [19:58:54] <DanC>
our openid whitelist experiement bitrotted when the students that grok drupal floated away
- [19:58:57] <danbri>
i'd like a collection of urls of openids known to be rational non spammy humans
- [19:59:25] <DanC>
I gave that to you, no? lemme find it again...
- [19:59:28] <danbri>
i made an experiment dumping urls from openids in my own blog (wordpress), and loading them into a mediawiki group (admins in this case)
- [19:59:37] <danbri>
you blogged it but I don't think i've the files currently
- [19:59:39] <danbri>
thanks
- [19:59:45] * DanC thinks it's filed in google under "peanut butter openid"
- [19:59:59] <danbri>
but sharing a whitelist of contributors across eg w3c, mozilla, microformats etc might be fun
- [20:00:01] <DanC>
yeah... http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/206
- [20:00:20] <DanC>
oh frap... the comments are all unpublished.
- [20:00:32] <tantek>
danbri - shared whitelists and blocklists are both good use cases
- [20:00:36] <DanC>
I put a pointer to the whitelist in a comment.
- [20:00:44] * danbri scans for an url for the openids themselves
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- [20:01:02] <tantek>
danbri see: http://microformats.org/wiki/block-list
- [20:01:27] <tobyink>
spider your own social network up to 3 degrees of friendship, find open ids from those pages, problem solved. ;-)
- [20:01:39] <danbri>
i had an idea for something like a list/group construct in which people nominate 7+-2 other people/urls as interesting in an unconstrained way; then crawl that
- [20:02:06] <danbri>
is there any popular microformat markup for organizing people/hcards/xfn into groups or lists?
- [20:02:09] <DanC>
wild... some part of our whitelist thingy lives on... in a drupal admin page, I see: "whitelist 2009-11-04 09:26 Whitelist reloaded from file"
- [20:02:20] <tantek>
danbri - xoxo for blogrolls
- [20:02:31] <danbri>
got an example handy?
- [20:02:33] <tantek>
the original "portable contacts" ;)
- [20:02:42] <tantek>
see both
- [20:02:49] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo
- [20:02:54] <tantek>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring
- [20:03:00] <danbri>
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1835.txt was another original PC :)
- [20:04:06] <tobyink>
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1777.txt was another
- [20:04:13] <DanC>
sorry, danbri, I'm trying to find the drupal comment where I squirreled away the whitelist pointer, but I'm losing.
- [20:04:20] <DanC>
and it's time for lunch here in Santa Clara
- [20:04:59] <danbri>
fading here too, but i'd love to pick this up again, spam is such a downer for us all
- [20:05:11] * DanC chalks up another reason to hate php, even though that's not all that fair to php
- [20:05:18] <danbri>
tantek, is anyone looking at upgrading microformats wiki to use the openid addon?
- [20:05:29] <danbri>
fwiw it got better in the last 2 or 3 years
- [20:05:37] <gsnedders>
DanC: I only have a list of around 30 reasons to hate PHP :)
- [20:05:38] <danbri>
i had an early version on the foaf wiki and it was poorly integrated, much smoother now and fails less too
- [20:06:03] * DanC (n=connolly@72-254-56-249.client.stsn.net) Quit ("This computer has gone to sleep")
- [20:06:12] <tobyink>
I use PHP on a regular basis, so I may well have the most.
- [20:06:19] <danbri>
i also crawled lists.w3.org and made some experiments sending the email addresses to google social graph API ... could probably get some base list of openids from there
- [20:06:39] <danbri>
maybe mozilla bugzilla has more such homepages-as-openids, etc
- [20:06:50] <tantek>
danbri - I think it was one of the items on http://microformats.org/wiki/to-do - but last time we tried the extension was pretty crappy
- [20:07:01] <tantek>
show me the OpenID wiki itself using it successfully and then we'll talk ;)
- [20:07:10] <danbri>
heheh, fair point
- [20:07:18] <tobyink>
As of a few years ago didn't lists.w3.org add that confirmation e-mail for any new e-mail addresses?
- [20:07:23] <danbri>
yes
- [20:07:35] <tobyink>
If so, then any addresses since then should be clean(er).
- [20:07:41] <danbri>
but even if i pick up a few spammer emails from years ago, very unlikely they are still in use
- [20:07:48] <danbri>
let alone associated with actively spamming openids
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- [20:08:03] <tobyink>
good point. And probably not found in SGAPI
- [20:08:23] <danbri>
btw tantek, i have a new friendship proposal for you, since you spurned me on Facebook ;)
- [20:08:25] <danbri>
-> http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/FOAFLists
- [20:08:40] <tantek>
danbri - I haven't logged into fb in >2yrs - don't take it personally.
- [20:08:44] <danbri>
it's an experiment also in integration foaf and xfn by using foaf's group mechanism as a way of expressing xfn concepts
- [20:08:47] <tantek>
just was shocked to see your invite ;)
- [20:08:49] <danbri>
ah i don't :)
- [20:09:05] <danbri>
it was one of those "[3rd user suggests a friend]" tricks from Facebook
- [20:09:08] <danbri>
Charlton i think
- [20:09:36] <danbri>
but actually i love facebook, in a constrained sort of way. It trains people to appreciate what the Web can do...
- [20:10:00] <danbri>
and eventually it'll melt away like everything else
- [20:10:42] <danbri>
foaflists is just a quick braindump, but idea is to push a lot of modelling into URI-named groups, rather than directly into names for inter-personal relationships
- [20:11:05] <tantek>
tommorris, this blog post illustrates the kind of problem I'm talking about: http://tripletalk.wordpress.com/2008/12/03/microformats-in-rdf/
- [20:11:26] <tantek>
the very assumption of "best practice mappings from microformats to RDF."
- [20:11:34] <tantek>
stop mapping and just use the URIs
- [20:12:03] <vensilver>
how do's it work
- [20:12:08] <tantek>
lunchtime
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- [20:12:31] <vensilver>
bang bang
- [20:13:12] <vensilver>
hello phae
- [20:14:02] * danbri curious for feedback on http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/FOAFLists but heading off soon too
- [20:17:24] <tobyink>
danbri: not really sure what foaflists is supposed to *solve*.
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- [20:18:51] <tobyink>
Given that URIs are opaque, I can't really derive much meaning from the fact that a person is a member of #danbri-wouldliketoknowbetter.
- [20:18:54] <TabAtkins>
Is it okay to do, frex, <h1 class="fn org"><img src=foo alt="My Company Name"></h1>
- [20:19:22] <TabAtkins>
That is, is it all right to use the alt-text as the value of the property?
- [20:19:55] <tobyink>
TabAtkins: IIRC Swignition supports this, but not much else.
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- [20:20:07] <vensilver>
dude what is going on let me know too
- [20:20:08] <danbri>
tobyink, but it becomes a think we can annotate with other info (eg. links to wikipedia or skos topics)
- [20:20:13] <danbri>
s/think/thing/
- [20:20:13] <tobyink>
Better results from <h1><img class="fn org" src=foo alt="My Company Name"></h1>
- [20:20:30] <TabAtkins>
tobyink: Thanks, that's doable for me
- [20:21:50] <tobyink>
danbri, be we can annotate the people with skos/dbpedia/etc anyway - why indirection via a group? (other than possible conciseness)
- [20:22:47] <danbri>
conciseness
- [20:22:57] <danbri>
and consistency
- [20:23:09] <vensilver>
tobyink can u tell what are you speaking about
- [20:24:23] <tobyink>
I don't think there's *that* much conciseness benefit. Assuming a group has one common interest, for every { ?person foaf:interest ?thing } triple you save, you gain a { ?group foaf:member ?person } triple.
- [20:24:42] <tobyink>
vensilver: about http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/FOAFLists
- [20:27:32] <danbri>
if i have a group of 50 ex-joost staff, in stead of 50x foaf:interest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_television i just assert it once, for the group
- [20:27:45] <danbri>
and we could s/interest/expertise/ etc
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- [20:29:48] <danbri>
so reducing some repetition, since we can say other things at the group level too (workplaceHomepage <http://www.joost.com/> etc)
- [20:30:10] <danbri>
but also distributing responsibility; you can have one party describe the group; and another add people to it eg via twitter/identica lists
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- [20:33:09] <tobyink>
But if you have [ a foaf:Group ; foaf:workplaceHomepage <http://www.joost.com/> ; foaf:member ... ] then you miss out picking up all those individuals in, say, SPARQL queries looking for people with foaf:workplaceHomepage <http://www.joost.com/>.
- [20:33:36] <danbri>
danc, http://dig.csail.mit.edu/auth/breadcrumbs
- [20:33:50] <danbri>
via http://web.archive.org/web/20071212231713/http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/206
- [20:33:53] <danbri>
but its nearly empty
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- [20:35:29] <danbri>
tobyink, you're assuming anyone will bother creating the data at the individual level
- [20:35:57] <danbri>
whereas generating it from the group is pretty trivial (no fancy logic stuff needed)
- [20:36:30] <tobyink>
Perhaps a POWDER-like solution? POWER allows you to make the same set of statements about a bunch of different resources.
- [20:36:31] <danbri>
lists are also nice for making venn diagram- style compositions, to use in filtering info views (eg. inbox, twitter, feed readers)
- [20:37:20] <danbri>
yes, i have been hassling leigh dodds and danja to patch POWDER support into Leigh's crawler, so you could have it assert "everyone whose openid is http://microformats.org/team/*" is in xyz-list
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- [22:26:22] <lgonze>
Is there an hAudio editor?
- [22:29:54] <lgonze>
A paralle to the hCard creator is what I'm thinking of. Something to generate embeddable HTML.
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