IRC Log for #openid on 2007-02-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  32. [15:12:14] <daveman692> if you guys haven't seen it yet...go digg! http://digg.com/tech_news/AOL_Supports_OpenID
  33. [15:12:32] <daveman692> other entries are on http://planet.openid.net/ as well
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  38. [15:30:48] * robertj (n=rcaskey@cai17.music.uga.edu) has joined #openid
  39. [15:31:01] <robertj> egad! AOL & Microsoft within what, a week?
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  43. [15:51:01] <keturn> hmm. so much for the "wait for a break in the rain" approach to commuting
  44. [15:51:24] <keturn> we have a 100% chance of rain _all day_ today.
  45. [15:53:04] <keturn> but I guess it's much better than the iceopocalypse on the other coast, so I'm gonna stop complaining now
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  49. [16:12:46] <don-o> omg. that AOL news is fantastic.
  50. [16:13:19] <don-o> my jyte profile icon was lost :(
  51. [16:13:54] <don-o> as was my non-primary openid urls :(
  52. [16:15:00] <don-o> i just added http://openid.aol.com/my_AIM_name to jyte and verified it. cool.
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  58. [17:53:03] <wcdevel> so, Google and Yahoo... me thinks they might never jump on board...
  59. [17:53:30] <wcdevel> "why would you want to go anywhere else in the Internet, we offer everything you need anyways"
  60. [17:54:13] <aconbere|work> if there was overwhelming customer demand they would ;-)
  61. [17:54:23] <aconbere|work> (an unlikely scenario but whatever)
  62. [17:58:57] <don-o> id be happy if digg and youtube start accepting openids.
  63. [17:59:28] <gregh> and wikipedia
  64. [18:00:00] <GabeW> of coure
  65. [18:00:13] * _keturn (n=acapnoti@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) Quit ("moving")
  66. [18:00:19] <GabeW> you guys are such downers!
  67. [18:04:47] <wcdevel> well, who says we need Google or Yahoo?
  68. [18:04:48] <wcdevel> :)
  69. [18:05:12] <wcdevel> I'm all about this "killing of the father" stuff
  70. [18:05:38] <wcdevel> it's like Futurism, or de Stijl, or some other manifesto driven modernist art movement
  71. [18:05:41] <wcdevel> ;)
  72. [18:10:31] * Osurac (i=mikeg@68.159.128.83) has joined #openid
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  77. [18:35:56] <wcdevel> man, that AOL thing is pretty nuts...
  78. [18:36:01] <wcdevel> EVERYONE has an AIM account
  79. [18:48:08] <wizard545> i don't
  80. [18:48:10] <wizard545> i use skype
  81. [19:02:44] <don-o> i avoid AIM like the plague but i still have a login :)
  82. [19:05:20] <wcdevel> that's the thing, everyone at one point signed up
  83. [19:06:03] <wcdevel> hey, what's up with jyte's version of OpenID
  84. [19:06:05] <wcdevel> ?
  85. [19:07:56] <wcdevel> they're adhearing to some openid 2.0 stuff... like i-names... nice
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  88. [19:47:55] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  89. [19:50:41] <myren> what the fuck is XRI
  90. [19:50:50] <myren> it looks like something someone pulled out of their ass
  91. [19:50:59] <myren> i liek the duality of i-names and i-numbers
  92. [19:51:24] <myren> but its basically yet another totally indecypherable completely unrelated naming scheme to add to the internets 10 quadrillion naming systems
  93. [19:58:13] * don-o shouts out an amen
  94. [19:58:43] <robertj> don-o: do you realize you used aol.com and cool in the same sentenc today?
  95. [19:58:54] * don-o boggles
  96. [19:59:09] <robertj> dan-O: "i just added http://openid.aol.com/my_AIM_name to jyte and verified it. cool."
  97. [19:59:12] <robertj> the end is nigh!
  98. [20:10:02] * cote (n=cote@adsl-71-145-190-21.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
  99. [20:11:25] <wcdevel> yeah, everything is crazy
  100. [20:12:06] <wcdevel> myren: well, XRI is part of the openID 2.0 specs...
  101. [20:12:26] <wcdevel> and with MS and AOL giving the thumbs up to openID 2.0...
  102. [20:12:39] <wcdevel> looks like i-names are in
  103. [20:13:45] <don-o> is reading the 2.0 spec the best way tolearn about i-names?
  104. [20:13:56] <myren> thats was one of my major XRI qualms
  105. [20:14:05] <myren> i never found a good source for explaining it
  106. [20:14:30] <myren> "names can be anything, and they have prefixes hosts can interpret however they want" was basically the best explanation i saw
  107. [20:15:04] <don-o> strings! the new identifier.
  108. [20:15:19] <wcdevel> I know a little bit about XRI/i-names...
  109. [20:16:04] <wcdevel> alright, right now, xri.net is the primary resolver... it'll spit out XRDS files
  110. [20:16:31] <wcdevel> XRDS files contain a bunch of services that you and your i-broker offer
  111. [20:17:16] <wcdevel> openID 1.1 already supports that kind of stuff, but unfortunately makes you put the link to an XRDS in an HTML Head tag
  112. [20:17:44] <wcdevel> so, there's a bunch of i-brokers out there
  113. [20:18:28] <wcdevel> 2idi.com is a popular one... it lets you mess around with your XRD file
  114. [20:18:56] <wcdevel> so like, =william.cotton is my i-name
  115. [20:19:03] <wcdevel> by i-broker is 2idi.com
  116. [20:19:05] <wcdevel> er, my
  117. [20:19:46] <myren> are all i-names are associated with an i-broker?
  118. [20:19:47] <don-o> how is a globally unique iname expressed?
  119. [20:19:49] <wcdevel> so, xri.net/=william.cotton will resolve to my i-name brokered by 2idi.com
  120. [20:20:01] <wcdevel> yeah, all i-names are associated with an i-broker
  121. [20:20:17] <wcdevel> well, all of the current i-brokers all work through xri.net
  122. [20:20:49] <myren> that sounds.... centralized
  123. [20:20:53] <wcdevel> it is
  124. [20:20:56] <wcdevel> that's the point
  125. [20:21:05] <myren> :/
  126. [20:21:13] <wcdevel> BUT, it's optional in the whole openID thing
  127. [20:21:14] <myren> openids arent centralized whatsoever
  128. [20:21:26] <myren> aside from dns
  129. [20:21:47] <wcdevel> XRI is supposed to be an extension of DNS, to deal with certain things
  130. [20:21:56] <wcdevel> like, domain names can expire
  131. [20:22:06] <wcdevel> thatand be snatched up again
  132. [20:22:15] <wcdevel> er, and
  133. [20:22:33] <wcdevel> when you register an i-name you also get an i-number
  134. [20:22:44] <wcdevel> i-numbers will never expire even if your i-name does
  135. [20:24:45] <wcdevel> basically, openID 2.0 will support a number of options...
  136. [20:25:02] <wcdevel> login with a URI or login with an i-name
  137. [20:25:15] * cote (n=cote@adsl-71-145-190-21.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net) has joined #openid
  138. [20:25:34] <wcdevel> openid 2.0 will just prefix http://xri.net/ to an i-name
  139. [20:25:39] <myren> i just pray the docs get a bit better on what exactly xri's are
  140. [20:25:54] <wcdevel> yeah, I know, they're a bit sketchy
  141. [20:26:04] <wcdevel> but here's the thing, ALL of these protocols are still evolving
  142. [20:26:16] <myren> thats the idea
  143. [20:26:22] <wcdevel> and this openID/CardSpace thing... boy, is that up in the air still
  144. [20:26:26] <myren> but its hard to monitor whether its evolving or devolving if no one has any idea what it is
  145. [20:26:41] <myren> thats a bit harsh/cruel a statement on my part
  146. [20:26:47] <wcdevel> too true
  147. [20:26:50] <_keturn> wcdevel: eh, no, that's not quite right
  148. [20:26:59] <wcdevel> what part?
  149. [20:27:09] <robertj> I'm confused, and if I'm confused, there is no way I can explain it to my boss, even if I wasn't
  150. [20:27:22] <_keturn> openid2.0 asks you to do resolution on the i-name for the OpenID service type
  151. [20:27:31] <myren> wait what? if i'm confused theres no way to explain, even if i wasnt?
  152. [20:27:38] <_keturn> (which, in practice, amounts to prefixing the i-name with xri.net and adding an argument about what that type is)
  153. [20:28:02] <wcdevel> alright, well close enough :)
  154. [20:28:06] <robertj> myren: anything that I can hear people talking about on my blogroll for months and still not somewhat grok, is not trivial to explain
  155. [20:28:08] <wcdevel> (for now)
  156. [20:28:13] <wcdevel> but I see your point
  157. [20:28:25] <wcdevel> when there is a system for resolution that's less of a "hack", it'll be used
  158. [20:29:37] <wcdevel> here's the thing with CardSpace... it has it's OWN system... you can have CardSpace enabled sites
  159. [20:30:09] <wcdevel> now, Kim, the guy who heads up the whole identity thing at MS, is really in to OpenID
  160. [20:30:22] <wcdevel> but, I don't think anyone has figured out how they're going to interect
  161. [20:30:32] <wcdevel> right now it seems like there's 2 ways to go about it
  162. [20:30:59] <wcdevel> one, you login at a CardSpace enabled site, and the info cards themselves work with the openID protocol
  163. [20:31:00] <myren> if i understood XRI at all
  164. [20:31:00] <robertj> wcdevel: you understand that saying that makes you contractually obligated to diagram each way right?
  165. [20:31:09] <myren> i'd hack up some shit to mux cardspace and openid
  166. [20:31:32] <myren> but i've tried a number of times to decypher xri and its role in openid 2.0
  167. [20:31:39] <myren> and failed horrendously every time
  168. [20:31:52] <wcdevel> two, you login via openID... and when you're asked to authenticate at your Identity Provider, you give them an info card via CardSpace
  169. [20:32:13] <myren> two is the model that makes sense to me
  170. [20:32:19] <wcdevel> me too
  171. [20:32:29] <myren> openid is the web protocol
  172. [20:32:34] <myren> cardspace is just your auth tokens
  173. [20:32:41] <wcdevel> that way, sites/relying parties only need to worry about implementing openid2.0
  174. [20:32:41] <myren> at your identity provider
  175. [20:32:46] <wcdevel> yup
  176. [20:32:49] <wcdevel> that would be ideal
  177. [20:32:59] <myren> and it would be great anti phishing
  178. [20:33:02] <myren> you log in via open id
  179. [20:33:02] <wcdevel> now, I haven't heard Kim say anything about that
  180. [20:33:14] <robertj> It sounds like both models have their place
  181. [20:33:16] <wcdevel> yeah, that's the benefit :)
  182. [20:33:18] <myren> your idp signals some software on your system that
  183. [20:33:24] <myren> and that software shows your cardspace cards
  184. [20:33:30] <wcdevel> uh huh
  185. [20:33:45] <wcdevel> and this Higgins project is CardSpace compatable, or so they claim
  186. [20:33:50] <myren> with notice for whom the service provider requesting auth is and what creds they think you're trying to use
  187. [20:34:05] <wcdevel> yeah
  188. [20:34:09] <myren> has higgins written any source? i saw them ~6 months ago or something and it looked like vapor
  189. [20:34:19] <robertj> they sure do lots of conference calls
  190. [20:34:19] <terrell> it works now
  191. [20:34:24] <myren> honestly i dont really remember what they were trying to do, at the time
  192. [20:34:39] <don-o> dont forget that YADIS is the meta-protocol which lets you know what website provides what auth systems etc (at least thats my understanding)
  193. [20:34:55] <wcdevel> YADIS and XRDS are basically the same thing now
  194. [20:34:55] <myren> i gotta say, writing an openid server was easy as dirt. major congrads for making something that can fit in standard fucking web architecture.
  195. [20:35:00] <wcdevel> if not exactly the same
  196. [20:35:07] <myren> its seriously like < 100 lines of code
  197. [20:36:04] <wcdevel> terrell: you're right, you could just add CardSpace support to an existing Identity Provider
  198. [20:36:29] <wcdevel> but, unfortunately the extensibility of openID 1.1 isn't that great...
  199. [20:36:34] <terrell> higgins code - http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/downloads.php
  200. [20:36:40] <myren> you talking to me wcdevel?
  201. [20:36:54] <wcdevel> hmm
  202. [20:37:06] <wcdevel> well, I thought terrell was talking about something else :)
  203. [20:37:32] <myren> where do you work wcdevel? just ooc.
  204. [20:37:49] <wcdevel> uhm, what city? Brooklyn
  205. [20:37:57] <myren> company
  206. [20:37:59] <myren> or field
  207. [20:38:13] <myren> mainly curious if you are paid to do any identity work
  208. [20:38:18] <wcdevel> nope
  209. [20:38:19] <wcdevel> not paid
  210. [20:38:36] <wcdevel> I do freelance web dev and consulting
  211. [20:38:44] * myren nods.
  212. [20:39:07] <myren> i'm part of a 6 person company that does similar
  213. [20:39:19] <wcdevel> but, I did start a company that is identity related about a month ago
  214. [20:39:22] * robertj is a full time sysadmin & part-time LAMP-monkey
  215. [20:39:23] <myren> pay the bills to hack the real issues
  216. [20:40:05] <_keturn> have you looked at the code for any of the relying party implementations that support XRI?
  217. [20:40:20] <wcdevel> nope
  218. [20:40:41] <wcdevel> I didn't know there was any out there
  219. [20:41:50] <wcdevel> _keturn: got any links for me? :)
  220. [20:42:06] <_keturn> the current releases on openidenabled.com for python, php, and ruby should have XRI support
  221. [20:42:40] <wcdevel> so like, my current gem of ruby-openid?
  222. [20:43:20] <terrell> the ruby-openid gem will resolve i-names, yes
  223. [20:43:33] <wcdevel> niiice
  224. [20:43:40] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) has joined #openid
  225. [20:43:43] <wcdevel> didn't know that :)
  226. [20:44:14] <wcdevel> so, does anyone know of anyone who is actually WORKING on the CardSpace/openID marrriage?
  227. [20:44:27] <wcdevel> or it still in the courtship phase
  228. [20:45:13] <myren> still in the let kim kameron think hes the only one relevant phase
  229. [20:46:47] <myren> i need to see what cardspace stuff is available for mono
  230. [20:48:53] <wcdevel> man, I always end up with like 35 tabs open in FF when I'm thinking/figuring out identity stuff
  231. [20:49:01] <myren> i use opera
  232. [20:49:12] <myren> if i have less than 100 tabs open at any given time, something is f-d
  233. [20:49:32] <robertj> wcdevel: the Firefox plugin written in Java will let you log into an Infocard site using OpenID
  234. [20:49:33] <myren> but yeah, identity is one of those things i open a ocuple new windows for, because i know it's going to expand quickly
  235. [20:50:07] <wcdevel> robertj: which one is that, the one from perpetual motion?
  236. [20:50:13] <robertj> wcdevel: from xmldap.org
  237. [20:50:32] <robertj> I've gotten it to work on OS X & Ubuntu 6.10
  238. [20:51:37] <myren> cardspace is mostly saml 1.0/1.1 right? :/
  239. [20:51:45] <myren> not 2.0
  240. [20:52:29] <wcdevel> well, it is supposed to work with any number of protocols
  241. [20:52:43] <myren> right
  242. [20:52:59] <myren> just wondering what most of the work so far has gone into
  243. [20:53:09] <wcdevel> man, one of the big problems with this identity stuff is how open it is... it's like trying to get 4 hippies to decide on something :)
  244. [20:53:20] <myren> saml2.0 has some stuff pulled from Liberty Alliance thats actually damned useful, especially for federated cases.
  245. [20:53:40] <myren> lacking that in the standard implementation would kinda suck
  246. [20:53:47] <wcdevel> "uh, well, I really want a tofuburger, but I might want some fries once it comes, uhhh.." hehe
  247. [20:54:11] <wcdevel> right now, if things can just talk to each other, that's a really good start...
  248. [20:55:14] <wcdevel> all of the current web protocols weren't this tough to get going... there are SO many players right now
  249. [20:55:27] <myren> then again
  250. [20:55:33] <myren> humanity in general sucks a dong
  251. [20:55:41] <wcdevel> I mean, when Netscape introduced JavaScript, cookies, SSL support... they were the only game in town
  252. [20:55:56] <myren> i mean honestly, rigging up an openid idp that auth's through some client side cardspace is dirt fucking easy
  253. [20:56:10] <myren> and requires nothing at all magic or in the way of new specs
  254. [20:56:17] <myren> its common sense
  255. [20:56:48] <wcdevel> yeah, the only issue is getting RPs and IPs to be able to send communicate what attributes are needed and available
  256. [20:56:56] <wcdevel> sreq is garbage
  257. [20:57:26] <myren> i can _never_ get used to RP
  258. [20:57:26] <wcdevel> I'm typing way faster than my brain can operate
  259. [20:57:33] <myren> service provider.
  260. [20:57:52] <wcdevel> good point
  261. [20:57:54] <myren> third parties consuming identities provide services with those identities
  262. [20:58:02] <myren> they dont "relay" identities
  263. [20:58:17] <wcdevel> service provider/consumer/relying party... it's a mess of terminology
  264. [20:58:27] <wcdevel> well, they "rely" on an identity
  265. [20:59:17] <robertj> myren: also see http://jyte.com/cl/myopenid-needs-to-support-infocard-logins-asap
  266. [20:59:56] <myren> oh jyte
  267. [21:00:05] <myren> theres another spec i need to investigate the fuck out of
  268. [21:00:15] <myren> their initial somantics seem likei could roll with it
  269. [21:00:29] <wcdevel> what, info cards?
  270. [21:00:38] <myren> no, their p2p credentials stuff
  271. [21:00:47] <wcdevel> ?
  272. [21:00:55] <myren> claims
  273. [21:01:05] <myren> claims creds groups
  274. [21:01:12] <wcdevel> ahh
  275. [21:01:26] <wcdevel> yeah, interesting concept... what do you mean by spec?
  276. [21:01:52] <myren> i dont really know. i'm presuming theres some p2p system in place, that its not all just a hosted jyte service.
  277. [21:01:56] <myren> in which case it can go to tell
  278. [21:02:09] <myren> err, h-e-double hockeystick
  279. [21:02:34] <myren> i've been looking at providing a similar system with atom and atom publishing protocols
  280. [21:05:46] <wcdevel> ?
  281. [21:06:20] <robertj> wcdevel: from what I can tell, Infocard scenario #1 provides a better user experience to users who already have cardspace installed while #2 really needs an additional helper to avoid having to submit two infocards
  282. [21:06:52] <robertj> myren: I think you are going to be dissapointed
  283. [21:07:29] <wcdevel> robertj: well, that would mean that every website is going to need to support CardSpace logins
  284. [21:07:38] <wcdevel> and guess what, that ain't happen'
  285. [21:08:10] <myren> robertj: Cred API: A full API for interacting with live cred data is on the way.
  286. [21:08:20] <myren> once thats out i'll see whether i give it a thumbs up or thumbs down
  287. [21:08:27] <myren> thats like the only piece relevant
  288. [21:09:02] <wcdevel> and I don't see how having an openID Identity Provider ask for a CardSpace infocard results in two infocards being submitted
  289. [21:09:25] <myren> well, presumably you'd log in to your IdP with a infocard. :)
  290. [21:09:34] <wcdevel> yeah
  291. [21:10:17] <myren> ok that still doesnt stipulate a demand for two infocards, much less two infocard submissions. so i have no idea.
  292. [21:10:29] <wcdevel> here's the thing... nobody is just going to use the MS approach
  293. [21:10:46] <wcdevel> CardSpace will end up like Passport
  294. [21:11:08] <robertj> wcdevel: I'm not sure
  295. [21:11:14] <myren> i was not aware cardspace is different from infocard
  296. [21:11:28] <myren> well, cardspace i thought was just the api about infocards
  297. [21:11:29] <wcdevel> myren: they're not, I just use them interchangably
  298. [21:11:44] <myren> infocards being a particular object instance
  299. [21:11:45] <robertj> Cardspace = MS' branded implementation of infocard
  300. [21:12:31] <robertj> comparing CardsSpace to Passport is just dirty
  301. [21:13:14] <wcdevel> you might not be able to compare apples and oranges, but they all end up rotting away at some point :)
  302. [21:13:16] <robertj> Cardspace:Passport::.net:qbasic
  303. [21:13:30] <wcdevel> I didn't compare them at all
  304. [21:13:36] <myren> the api will almost certainly survive
  305. [21:13:45] <myren> i believe mono is just re-implementing or some such
  306. [21:13:59] <myren> mono will be the primary 3rd party adopter
  307. [21:14:19] <robertj> myren: ehhh, Mozilla is going to adopt it and they sure aren't going to ship a Mono stack so I'd say no
  308. [21:14:39] <myren> ok point
  309. [21:14:47] <myren> for the record,i was not aware of that though
  310. [21:14:53] <wcdevel> FF 3.0
  311. [21:15:07] * myren is actually not a fan of FF
  312. [21:15:10] <myren> like one of the four people
  313. [21:15:25] <wcdevel> they mentioned some vague support for openID and CardSpace
  314. [21:15:36] <myren> they eat way too much of their own dogfood in that disgusting engine/application
  315. [21:15:54] <wcdevel> it IS a freaking resource hog
  316. [21:16:01] <robertj> myren: I like FF, but I know anything out of Mozilla has major integration problems, and not just with the UI. For the reason you stated above, everything in there is a monster to package and maintain.
  317. [21:16:30] <myren> FF is emacs.
  318. [21:16:49] <wcdevel> see, I just can't use browsers from companies that sell operating systems as well
  319. [21:16:51] <myren> actually i really have no idea how the internals of emacs work
  320. [21:17:05] <myren> that scratches opera. :(
  321. [21:17:24] <myren> theres way too many devices that have literally just opera running on them
  322. [21:17:37] <wcdevel> they always have "cool new ideas" about how to integrate the web in to their proprietary standards
  323. [21:17:45] <myren> opera?
  324. [21:17:50] <myren> they usually leave the web untouched
  325. [21:17:53] <wcdevel> no, MS and Apple
  326. [21:18:02] <myren> ah, pardon, yes, of course
  327. [21:18:07] <wcdevel> well, Apple is nowhere as bad as MS
  328. [21:18:10] <myren> well netscape was pulling the exact same shit
  329. [21:18:14] <robertj> Apple deserves a special beat-down for not updating their browser for OS 10.3 customers
  330. [21:18:19] <myren> FF does the same muscling around
  331. [21:18:22] <wcdevel> IE makes me want to shoot bunnies
  332. [21:18:33] <myren> IE is just a monster
  333. [21:18:44] <robertj> IE is a monster that works, I think it is rather good all things considered
  334. [21:19:04] <wcdevel> yeah, it also disregards standards
  335. [21:19:21] <wcdevel> if EVERYONE just stuck to the freaking standards, there would be no problems
  336. [21:19:35] <wcdevel> actually, I don't really care
  337. [21:19:37] <robertj> IE6 came out a long time ago
  338. [21:19:55] <wcdevel> and does IE7 pass Acid 2? no
  339. [21:20:08] <wcdevel> do most browsers? no :)
  340. [21:20:30] <robertj> I mean, It's not like I haven't spent a week debugging javascript to work properly in IE too
  341. [21:20:36] <wcdevel> see, there will always be stuff like prototype/scriptaculous
  342. [21:20:56] <wcdevel> I haven't owned a PC in years
  343. [21:21:20] <robertj> wcdevel: Mac-fanboy?
  344. [21:21:28] <wcdevel> not really
  345. [21:21:31] <wcdevel> anything *nix
  346. [21:21:52] <wcdevel> I mean, I do own a Mac
  347. [21:22:17] <wcdevel> no protools for linux ;)
  348. [21:22:43] <robertj> wcdevel: I work at a Music School, so I've got a Dual Proc G5, but I'm not really digging it all that much
  349. [21:23:04] <wcdevel> why not?
  350. [21:23:05] <myren> os's are basically all homogenous
  351. [21:23:17] <wcdevel> Core Audio is the shit
  352. [21:23:18] <myren> osx/gnome/kde/windows are really no different from one another in any appreciable sense
  353. [21:23:24] <robertj> wcdevel: Directory Services has lots of little undocumented gotchas in closed-source places :(
  354. [21:24:02] <wcdevel> what?
  355. [21:24:30] <myren> ah, DS. its the definition of clusterfuck central, no matter the implementation.
  356. [21:24:36] <robertj> wcdevel: unless your into Kerberos & Ldap stuff it is fairly non-interesting
  357. [21:24:43] <myren> i am
  358. [21:24:53] <myren> any particularly egregious fuckups in their implementation?
  359. [21:25:04] <myren> juicky disgusting gotchas?
  360. [21:25:09] <robertj> myren: ok, when you use a services plugin it mounts it somewhere on their internal registry-like thing
  361. [21:25:42] <robertj> do a fresh install and run it and it appears in /Active Directory/All Domains, everyone happy, matches the docs, all is well
  362. [21:25:51] <robertj> reboot it and it changes to /Active Directory/LABS.AD.UGA.EDU, also sane
  363. [21:25:52] <wcdevel> see, I don't really USE a lot of Mac software... the great thing about OS X is that it's *nix... just go download some open source tarball, automake/conf... and you're off!
  364. [21:26:02] <robertj> if it didn't change, and was the default, that would be cool
  365. [21:26:18] <robertj> if you could change the search path in the GUI, it would be less of a trouble
  366. [21:26:53] <robertj> instead you have to dig around in /Library/Preferences/DirectoryServices and mess around with the various .plist files which are like ini files put into xml for no good reason
  367. [21:26:59] <wcdevel> for me, if MS made a project that sat on top of *nix, I'd probably use it
  368. [21:27:12] <wcdevel> er, an OS, not project
  369. [21:27:28] <wcdevel> Mac OS was garbage until X
  370. [21:27:37] <wcdevel> literal trash
  371. [21:27:39] <robertj> I don't dislike XP, if it was FOSS I'd advocate dumping everything and moving it to immediately
  372. [21:28:05] <robertj> the technical underpinnings are nothing that can't be fixed trivially if you are willing to break backwards compatability
  373. [21:28:23] <wcdevel> .dlls? the registry?
  374. [21:28:44] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host81-129-230-244.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  375. [21:28:48] <myren> its such a fucking crime linux hackers never got together some standard tooling for kerb/ldap intergration. it should have enough tooling support development-effort that every distro could run a ldap/kerb variant andfeel confident doing so. instead linux SUCKS as a network platform. scuks a god damned lot.
  376. [21:28:52] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has left #openid
  377. [21:29:18] <myren> instead its a 34-step process and every single app requires custom tailoring to work
  378. [21:29:37] <wcdevel> yeah... that is one of the downsides
  379. [21:29:50] <robertj> wcdevel: I haven't had problems with .dlls or the registry in years
  380. [21:30:04] <wcdevel> I just don't like the concepts
  381. [21:30:11] <myren> it just astounds me how poor the management for linux networks are
  382. [21:30:30] <wcdevel> like, the registry? just put that stuff on the file system
  383. [21:30:34] <robertj> myren: #ubuntu-directory has been a major go-nowhere
  384. [21:30:55] <myren> i am jacks lack of suprise
  385. [21:30:59] * SamRose (n=chatzill@brick.voyager.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/0000000000]")
  386. [21:31:10] <myren> its so unfortunate :(
  387. [21:31:26] <wcdevel> I'm really out of the LDAP/Directory services loop
  388. [21:31:46] <wcdevel> I mean, I know what it is, but never really had to think much about it
  389. [21:31:53] <myren> you and everyone else. dont worry, we'll let you know if directory services ever get into first gear.
  390. [21:32:35] <myren> hopefully there'll be a transmission left at that point (word play on us grinding gears tryingt o get into first)
  391. [21:33:26] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host81-129-230-244.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) has joined #openid
  392. [21:34:33] <wcdevel> you know, I liked Windows 3.1
  393. [21:34:36] <wcdevel> especially the icons
  394. [21:34:42] <wcdevel> 32x32, 16 colors
  395. [21:37:02] <robertj> but anyway, I look forward to infocard + openid logins
  396. [21:37:09] <wcdevel> yeah :)
  397. [21:37:16] <wcdevel> however it ends up working
  398. [21:37:53] <wcdevel> see, I have no vested interest in any of these protocols
  399. [21:38:23] <wcdevel> all I see is what is being used now, what people are getting excited about, and what the benefits of each system are
  400. [21:38:45] <wcdevel> openID 1.1 is the most used system right now
  401. [21:38:59] <wcdevel> openID 2.0 is what everyone is getting excited about
  402. [21:39:11] <wcdevel> (especially with pledges from MS and AOL)
  403. [21:39:28] <wcdevel> and, openID 2.0 needs some kind of infocard selector
  404. [21:40:12] <robertj> wcdevel: i'd be suprised id we go 30 days without a standard for infocards interacting with MyID
  405. [21:40:35] <robertj> if you were a small startup, saw the missing link, and had attention from Microsoft and AOL, how many people would _you_ put on it?
  406. [21:41:00] <wcdevel> as many as I could
  407. [21:41:08] * fo0bar_ (i=fo0bar@feh.colobox.com) has joined #openid
  408. [21:41:12] <wcdevel> *cough* janrain *cough*
  409. [21:42:45] <wcdevel> although, where's the business?
  410. [21:43:05] <wcdevel> this is standards development we're talking about
  411. [21:43:15] <wcdevel> not really the next youtube :)
  412. [21:43:23] <robertj> it doesn't matter, it's a .com 2.0! crazy-alternate reality rules apply!
  413. [21:43:46] <wcdevel> I hate that crap
  414. [21:44:14] <wcdevel> thank god it doesn't exist in NYC... this city learned it's lesson from the bubble years
  415. [21:44:40] <wcdevel> but the Bay Area? holy crap, there's a bunch of TERRIBLE business ideas getting money
  416. [21:45:19] <robertj> wcdevel: ehh, I'm trying to go expat, hopefully I will get into Oxford & can bow out for a while ;)
  417. [21:45:22] <wcdevel> here's an idea: wait until a web site can actually turn a profit before you invest in it
  418. [21:45:46] <robertj> I'll be safe, there are no small startups there to capture me and hold me prisoner with 60+ hr workweeks!
  419. [21:45:48] <wcdevel> what do websites need all this money for?
  420. [21:45:59] <wcdevel> hosting? domain name registration?
  421. [21:46:00] <myren> we need more network symbiants
  422. [21:46:03] <myren> people like google
  423. [21:46:09] <robertj> wcdevel: caffeine dependency programs
  424. [21:46:12] <myren> whose lives depend on the network existing
  425. [21:46:18] <myren> v. microsofts who depend on their products
  426. [21:46:23] <wcdevel> you can start a web company while working at mcdonalds
  427. [21:47:11] * wcdevel (n=admin@user-12ld21n.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  428. [21:47:21] * wcdevel (n=admin@user-12ld21n.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #openid
  429. [21:47:57] <wcdevel> as I was saying... you could start a web company while working at mcdonalds
  430. [21:48:36] <wcdevel> if you're going to go out and get millions of dollars of investment money for no good reason, what kind of businessman are you?
  431. [21:48:47] <wcdevel> that's not your money
  432. [21:48:55] <wcdevel> you're spending WAY more than you're making
  433. [21:49:15] <wcdevel> ie, breaks the first rule of business
  434. [21:49:17] <myren> good for you!
  435. [21:49:42] <wcdevel> you know what, it's probably tied in to some hedge fund or something
  436. [21:49:50] <myren> a fool and his money are easily parted, and i have little pity for that fool
  437. [21:50:06] <robertj> if you can spend more than your making, and that spending includes paying yourself a stupidly large salary, then you are a good business man :)
  438. [21:50:31] <wcdevel> robertj: no, you're good at getting yourself money, and really great at tanking your business
  439. [21:50:43] <myren> isnt taht the point of the internet?
  440. [21:50:48] <myren> to profit off of what should be free?
  441. [21:50:57] <wcdevel> bank robbers are good of that kind of stuff as well
  442. [21:51:00] <myren> to create artificial demand for what should be humanitarian service
  443. [21:51:24] <wcdevel> no
  444. [21:51:26] <myren> SOA is basically a codeword for raping customers inthe butt repeatedly, v. only once
  445. [21:51:39] <myren> (service oriented architecture)
  446. [21:51:42] <wcdevel> see, here's the thing
  447. [21:51:54] <wcdevel> old school ideas about economics have not gone away
  448. [21:52:07] <wcdevel> I don't care what the hell is going on in San Jose
  449. [21:52:23] <wcdevel> when people provide services for others they should make a profit
  450. [21:52:46] <wcdevel> now, just having the ability, or potential, to provide services, doesn't really mean anything
  451. [21:52:52] <myren> i think most of what is provided is a disservice
  452. [21:53:00] <robertj> wcdevel: so umm, what about insurance?
  453. [21:53:05] <wcdevel> you've got to be working with actual customers
  454. [21:53:20] <robertj> wcdevel: there is the potential that your house could burn down and you would be glad you have it, but the reality is it probably wont and you will be out your cash
  455. [21:53:39] <wcdevel> how does that apply?
  456. [21:53:59] <robertj> it's a speculative investment, just like venture capital
  457. [21:54:10] <wcdevel> oh, I'm not dissing VCs
  458. [21:54:15] <myren> insurance is a service
  459. [21:54:17] <wcdevel> just bad business ideas
  460. [21:54:27] * fo0bar (i=fo0bar@feh.colobox.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  461. [21:54:48] <wcdevel> see
  462. [21:55:08] <wcdevel> it could be that all these VCs going ape-shit about web2.0 are just all in on a hedge fund
  463. [21:55:27] <wcdevel> and they stand to make a lot more money off of the hype they are building than they are actually spending on these companies
  464. [21:55:57] <wcdevel> we may not have Google offices over here in NY, but we do have Goldman Sachs ;)
  465. [21:56:05] <wcdevel> we, there are Google offices
  466. [21:56:09] <wcdevel> you get my point, hehe
  467. [21:57:37] <wcdevel> Buffet... see he knows how to invest
  468. [21:57:52] <wcdevel> find a company that actually has the ability to make money and then work with it until it does
  469. [21:58:05] <wcdevel> it's got to be a good, solid idea
  470. [21:58:10] <wcdevel> Amazon... solid
  471. [21:58:15] <wcdevel> Pets.com... retarded
  472. [21:58:31] <myren> i really like google actually
  473. [21:58:35] <wcdevel> I do to
  474. [21:58:37] <myren> they exist because of the network
  475. [21:58:47] <wcdevel> and they are making a boatload of actual money
  476. [21:58:51] <wcdevel> billions
  477. [21:59:00] <don-o> due to adsense
  478. [21:59:05] <myren> yeah
  479. [21:59:07] <wcdevel> see, advertising the key
  480. [21:59:07] <wcdevel> yeah
  481. [21:59:09] <myren> 100% nothing but adsense
  482. [21:59:15] <don-o> yup
  483. [21:59:24] <wcdevel> and advertising links the virtual to ACTUAL products in the REAL world
  484. [21:59:36] <wcdevel> hence, why old school economics ain't going anywhere
  485. [21:59:42] <don-o> yeah like pron and music downloads.
  486. [21:59:53] <don-o> :)
  487. [21:59:53] <myren> i'm honestly kind of suprised larry & serge dont just shut the shit down and build a 500 ft tall Scrooge McDuck vault filled with gold coins
  488. [21:59:53] <wcdevel> well, there are obvious issues with that
  489. [22:00:17] <myren> fire everyone and just go into operations mode
  490. [22:00:28] <wcdevel> part of the reason the MPAA and RIAA are freaking out is because they were just sellers of plastic, vinyl, and metallic tape
  491. [22:00:32] <don-o> myren: its more fun to fly around in the google 747 and drop fine china on convertibles
  492. [22:00:55] <myren> drop fine china? i must've missed that valleywag.com post
  493. [22:01:09] <myren> sounds like a drug reference actully. :)
  494. [22:01:16] <don-o> :)
  495. [22:01:29] <wcdevel> don-o: the thing is, artists aren't making any money off of music sales on the internet
  496. [22:01:40] <myren> micropyaments
  497. [22:01:44] <myren> we need micropayments really bad
  498. [22:01:51] <wcdevel> could work
  499. [22:01:57] <don-o> micropayments would be great
  500. [22:02:03] <myren> i'd toss out $2 a day in micropayments
  501. [22:02:12] <myren> to artists and bloggers
  502. [22:02:15] <wcdevel> I think most people would
  503. [22:02:20] <don-o> i just read steve job's no-DRM letter today. good stuff.
  504. [22:02:20] <myren> i do too
  505. [22:02:39] <wcdevel> see, but the banks are in control
  506. [22:02:40] <myren> micropayments are the only model that CAN work when information is free
  507. [22:02:42] <wcdevel> and they don't like it
  508. [22:02:45] <myren> when domonid.com exists
  509. [22:03:31] <myren> its not really a bank issue. its just a service issue. you ahve to aggregate payments to make it bank-scale, so you need to sign up for accounts, and then only the people with accounts can make payments. somehow it has to get into first gear, get critical mass.
  510. [22:03:47] <wcdevel> yeah, and good luck with that
  511. [22:04:00] <wcdevel> it is up to the banks
  512. [22:04:01] <myren> yup. the trail of dead micropyament comapnies is very long and bloody.
  513. [22:04:17] <myren> using google accounts is viable
  514. [22:04:23] <wcdevel> federal credit unions
  515. [22:04:48] <wcdevel> it's got to be something at least grounded in reality
  516. [22:05:06] <myren> the hard part is making it convenient for the people paying
  517. [22:05:19] <wcdevel> I mean, I love the net, but all this hippie nonsense is why I live in a city where there's snow and ice covering the streets right now :)
  518. [22:05:56] <myren> you could use paypal or google accounts, huge saturation rate, but theres a 15c deductable and four pages of click through for a 50c donation
  519. [22:06:04] <wcdevel> uh huh
  520. [22:06:24] <wcdevel> I'm telling you, it's the banks
  521. [22:06:36] <myren> its a possibility, i cant deny that
  522. [22:06:54] <wcdevel> in NZ you can send any body money for free from an ATM
  523. [22:07:14] <wcdevel> owe someone $5? got their bank account number? you can do it from an ATM
  524. [22:07:31] <myren> is giving out your bank acct # safe?
  525. [22:07:42] <wcdevel> sure, why not
  526. [22:07:55] <myren> you'd be hard pressed to get me to enter my bank account # anywhere on the web
  527. [22:08:11] <wcdevel> it's a different system...
  528. [22:08:30] <wcdevel> you know, I haven't lived there in like, 4 years, lemme login to kiwibank and see how it all works again
  529. [22:08:47] <myren> i wanted to live in NZ once
  530. [22:08:52] <myren> i still kind of do
  531. [22:09:07] <wcdevel> it's nice
  532. [22:09:10] <wcdevel> I was born there
  533. [22:09:16] <wcdevel> but, it's tiny
  534. [22:09:18] <wcdevel> and not on the cutting edge
  535. [22:09:25] <wcdevel> and no money :)
  536. [22:09:28] <myren> expatriating from ye olde united states of america has been on my todo list
  537. [22:09:55] <myren> yeah, internet connection & having a couple major urban centers is on my requirements for expatriation. :/
  538. [22:09:58] <wcdevel> yeah, it's just account numbers
  539. [22:10:05] <wcdevel> I love this country :)
  540. [22:10:10] <wcdevel> I'm here for good
  541. [22:10:17] <wcdevel> try starting a business somewhere else...
  542. [22:10:29] <wcdevel> I love this cowboy stuff
  543. [22:10:41] <wcdevel> you can just start making money!
  544. [22:10:58] <myren> EU hasnt gotten any better about all that?
  545. [22:11:03] <wcdevel> nope
  546. [22:11:11] <wcdevel> they're socialists
  547. [22:11:18] <myren> that is unfortunate
  548. [22:11:24] <wcdevel> tell me about it
  549. [22:11:33] <myren> socialist nations still require GDP
  550. [22:11:37] <wcdevel> I'd rather deal with rednecks than redtape
  551. [22:11:47] <myren> not allowing peole to make companies is a surefire way to fuck over your GDP
  552. [22:12:04] <wcdevel> well, you can start companies, but it's such a "boys club"
  553. [22:13:23] <wcdevel> like, in Sweden, the biggest companies were all started around 35 years ago at the eariest, most older
  554. [22:13:49] <wcdevel> Google wasn't even on the radar 6 years ago!
  555. [22:14:13] <myren> but how much of that is due to red tape
  556. [22:14:29] <wcdevel> tons
  557. [22:14:32] <myren> if you can find talent, theres a world audience that'll buy from you wherever you are based
  558. [22:14:43] <wcdevel> then why does it ALL happen here?
  559. [22:14:46] <myren> so the issue is really, how are these countries preventing good buisnesses from getting off the ground
  560. [22:14:54] <Osurac> in the US it is somewhat of a "good ol' boy network" but mostly it is how much money do you have
  561. [22:15:02] <myren> wcdev, i'd propose some of it is "finding talent"
  562. [22:15:24] <wcdevel> dude, there are TONS of talented hackers in Europe
  563. [22:15:35] <myren> where do they work?
  564. [22:15:48] <wcdevel> a lot have government jobs
  565. [22:16:12] <myren> that makes only too mcuh sense, but unfortunately its wasted talent as far as GDP goes
  566. [22:16:13] <wcdevel> I don't think you realize the scope of government employment in most European countries
  567. [22:16:25] <myren> i'll admit to that right off the bt
  568. [22:16:27] <myren> *Bat
  569. [22:16:42] <wcdevel> quasi-governmental... etc
  570. [22:16:58] <wcdevel> see, like, in NYC, even our PUBLIC transport is owned by a private company :)
  571. [22:17:12] <wcdevel> well, the MTA is owned by the mob, but ;)
  572. [22:17:21] <myren> i think thats what we should do with monopoloies
  573. [22:17:31] <myren> if you're found guilty of creating a monopoly
  574. [22:17:32] <wcdevel> give them to the mob? hehe
  575. [22:17:48] <myren> uh, no, make them government run
  576. [22:17:58] <wcdevel> ooh boy
  577. [22:18:03] <wcdevel> well
  578. [22:18:10] <wcdevel> it pretty much happens like that already
  579. [22:18:28] <myren> you've crushed all competition and are now providing a service at overinflated value to your customers. since we represent those customers, we're taking your buisness from you and going to serve those customers.
  580. [22:18:36] <wcdevel> I mean, when the government broke up Bell... that's a LOT of involvement from the Feds
  581. [22:19:05] <myren> they "de-monopolize" but permit each independent agency to continue raping its customers. they dont enforce competition.
  582. [22:19:24] <wcdevel> it's tough with stuff like phone lines, though
  583. [22:19:42] <wcdevel> because it is become public infrastructure
  584. [22:19:54] <myren> right. so i figure, rather than force legislate/create competition, just let hte government take them over and stop trying to make money.
  585. [22:19:57] <wcdevel> but, it was funded by some dude
  586. [22:20:21] <wcdevel> it's an issue that really still hasn't been worked out in the US
  587. [22:20:43] <wcdevel> but, the government is really bad at things
  588. [22:20:45] <wcdevel> :)
  589. [22:20:54] <myren> indeed
  590. [22:21:09] <wcdevel> see, the solution kind of happened on its own, re: telecoms
  591. [22:21:22] <wcdevel> cable line and phone lines...
  592. [22:21:49] <myren> well, it turned into monopoly v. monopoly
  593. [22:21:58] <wcdevel> better than nothing, hehe
  594. [22:22:01] <myren> just because of the way the tech went
  595. [22:22:08] <myren> i guess its more the nature of capitalism
  596. [22:22:32] <myren> you get to the top by taking the place of all the lower forms of life on the food chain
  597. [22:22:56] <wcdevel> well, see there's the big issue
  598. [22:23:03] <myren> to continue doing so dictates fewer and fewer winners as the pyramid continues getting smaller & agencies cover bigger territories
  599. [22:23:09] <wcdevel> people who want to "get to the top"
  600. [22:23:19] <myren> you mean "make money"
  601. [22:23:31] <wcdevel> well
  602. [22:23:36] <myren> ;)
  603. [22:24:00] <wcdevel> you can still make money without being the richest guy in the world
  604. [22:24:22] <myren> but thats not how corps work
  605. [22:24:31] <myren> corps are run by executive officers and shareholders
  606. [22:24:35] <wcdevel> corps aren't people, that's a problem
  607. [22:24:44] <myren> with executive officers beholden to making the most money possible for their shareholders
  608. [22:24:48] <wcdevel> yeah
  609. [22:24:50] <myren> the goal is to get to the top
  610. [22:24:57] <wcdevel> ie, to "act like total maniacs"
  611. [22:25:05] <myren> suffer complete tunnel vision
  612. [22:25:07] <myren> yup
  613. [22:25:19] <wcdevel> "I will become the most rich and powerful person on the planet!!!"
  614. [22:25:30] <wcdevel> that's what a crazy person would say
  615. [22:26:07] <wcdevel> see... it's tough
  616. [22:26:49] <wcdevel> do you make shareholders responsible for their companies? no, you can't really, that breaks the whole system of limited-liability that makes investment work
  617. [22:27:12] <wcdevel> and it DOES work
  618. [22:27:12] <myren> just assume innocence until proven guilty
  619. [22:27:29] <myren> as soon as a company is proven a maniac, let the government run time
  620. [22:27:31] <myren> run them
  621. [22:27:38] <wcdevel> but again, for a publicly traded company, a lot of the shareholders are just looking at numbers
  622. [22:27:54] <wcdevel> ahh
  623. [22:27:58] <wcdevel> but, that's the thing
  624. [22:28:01] <wcdevel> "
  625. [22:28:04] <myren> as long as you behave like a reasonable citizen you can keep your limited liability agency
  626. [22:28:07] <wcdevel> "personal responsiblilty"
  627. [22:28:32] <myren> as soon as you go insane, you are an enemy of the state, your companies social contract is shredded and we take your punk ass over as a new public service instead.
  628. [22:28:57] <myren> it promotes responsible investment. :)
  629. [22:29:09] <myren> lesson: dont invest in sociopaths.
  630. [22:29:13] <wcdevel> sure does
  631. [22:29:34] <wcdevel> but, the government is full of sociopaths
  632. [22:29:37] <myren> we shouldnt encourage people to do prospective investment in sociopaths anyways. :)
  633. [22:29:44] <myren> true true. :)
  634. [22:29:46] <wcdevel> "look at me, I'm in charge of all you ants!"
  635. [22:30:21] <wcdevel> see... the internet could be used to change our complete system of democracy
  636. [22:30:34] <wcdevel> the way we elect representatives...
  637. [22:30:43] <myren> it could permit accountability
  638. [22:31:02] <wcdevel> you know, I'm saving a lot of that thought for when I'm a bit older :)
  639. [22:31:25] <myren> hey if you got ideas, we could use em now. ;)
  640. [22:31:49] <wcdevel> well
  641. [22:31:52] <myren> leave the implementation for others. ;)
  642. [22:31:59] <wcdevel> they're very malformed ideas :)
  643. [22:32:03] <myren> ok i will stop putting :) after every sentance.
  644. [22:32:14] <wcdevel> I'd need flush them out a bit
  645. [22:32:31] <myren> i know exactly what you're talking about
  646. [22:32:34] <wcdevel> and right now i'm all about fried chicken and pretty girls
  647. [22:32:50] <myren> welcome to america. and you know what? :)
  648. [22:32:57] <wcdevel> no time for some benjamin franklin type shit
  649. [22:33:02] <myren> um
  650. [22:33:09] <myren> BF was a HUGE fan of the friend chicken & ladies
  651. [22:33:17] <wcdevel> i know, i know
  652. [22:33:26] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host81-129-230-244.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  653. [22:33:28] <myren> he spent a quarter of his life in france rocking the friend chicken & fine ladies
  654. [22:33:32] * myren nods
  655. [22:33:35] <wcdevel> all that I'm saying is that he became a thinker and statesmen outside of his 20s
  656. [22:33:57] <wcdevel> dude, I'm 25, wtf do I know?
  657. [22:34:29] * myren is about to turn 25. quarter life crisis, here i come!
  658. [22:34:35] <wcdevel> I mean, making money is one thing... but philosophies that affect systems of ethics and governance... whoa
  659. [22:34:37] <myren> seriously, i feel it. :(
  660. [22:34:48] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host81-129-230-244.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) has joined #openid
  661. [22:35:08] <myren> right nwo the tail is wagging the dog, shit is clearly and obviously fucked up.
  662. [22:35:23] <wcdevel> it's always been messed up ;)
  663. [22:35:49] <myren> ugg i normally liek chat logs but this random thursday diatribe could do without being preserved in the anals of internet history
  664. [22:35:49] <wcdevel> nobody listens to someone in their 20s
  665. [22:36:00] <wcdevel> hahaha
  666. [22:36:13] <myren> ^-- indeed
  667. [22:37:01] <wcdevel> it's good to be wild-eyed and willing to change things
  668. [22:37:15] <wcdevel> anyways, I need to go eat something
  669. [22:37:22] <wcdevel> I skipped lunch today
  670. [22:37:31] <myren> honestly i just pray that some day p2p changes how we interact with information and each other
  671. [22:37:57] <myren> that i and others can help craft better information architectures for people
  672. [22:38:14] <myren> given that i'm only going to live a hundred years, thats the best i can hope for at this stage
  673. [22:38:19] <wcdevel> yup
  674. [22:38:30] <wcdevel> and that you don't get the clap
  675. [22:38:33] <myren> what are you doing for lunch?
  676. [22:38:36] <myren> *snarf*
  677. [22:38:50] <myren> i'm thinking maybe a burger for myself.
  678. [22:39:03] <wcdevel> lunch will be turkey sandwich from the deli
  679. [22:39:12] <wcdevel> actually, fuck it, I'm going straight to dinner
  680. [22:39:23] <wcdevel> French restaurant, I know the owners, they give me free wine :)
  681. [22:39:25] <myren> turkey sandwich dinner?
  682. [22:39:30] <myren> hmm groovy
  683. [22:39:51] <wcdevel> alright, I'll see you around
  684. [22:39:58] <wcdevel> good chat
  685. [22:40:02] <myren> have a good one. thanks for the chat.
  686. [22:42:01] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host81-129-230-244.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  687. [22:42:11] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host81-129-230-244.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) has joined #openid
  688. [22:49:07] <myren> i'm always /win 5
  689. [22:49:24] <myren> botching my irc commands
  690. [22:55:41] * hikari_esblogger (n=hikari_e@host81-129-230-244.range81-129.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  691. [23:35:17] <SvenDowideit> hello guys&girls,
  692. [23:35:28] <SvenDowideit> is anything happening with the openid bounty?
  693. [23:35:50] <SvenDowideit> i sent an email a few days ago, and the silence is disconcerting
  694. [23:41:54] * _keturn pokes someone about that
  695. [23:43:12] <SvenDowideit> in a good way i hope :)
  696. [23:52:25] <jirwin> so what is this i-name stuff?
  697. [23:53:38] <_keturn> SvenDowideit: ok, there's some non-silence
  698. [23:53:48] <SvenDowideit> hehe
  699. [23:54:06] <SvenDowideit> thanks :)
  700. [23:54:17] <SvenDowideit> though the 200,000 registered users is a problem
  701. [23:54:50] <SvenDowideit> i think there are only 25,000 ish, but thats because we've never really pushed people to register :/

These logs were automatically created by OpenIDlogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.