IRC Log for #openid on 2007-05-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:22:55] * shigeta (n=shigeta@124.32.114.226) has joined #openid
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  5. [03:13:57] <jibot> brylie is from Kansas and is interested in public access to media and technology.
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  33. [14:00:32] <jibot> brylie is from Kansas and is interested in public access to media and technology.
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  42. [17:04:02] * cygnus (n=cygnus@c-71-236-228-127.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  43. [17:04:02] <jibot> cygnus is WorkerBee(name="Jonathan Daugherty", company="JanRain, Inc.")
  44. [17:06:27] <bPrompter> test
  45. [17:08:17] * nslater (n=nslater@tortoise.bytesexual.org) has joined #openid
  46. [17:08:40] <nslater> What is the consensus about normalising OpenID URIs for usability purposes?
  47. [17:09:20] <cygnus> nslater: are you referring to specific mailing list thread?
  48. [17:10:07] <nslater> Not at all, I am buliding an OpenID client application and would like to chop any trailing "/" from the URL to increase the probability the user doesn't misstype the URI.
  49. [17:10:53] <cygnus> the user isn't responsible for typing the trailing slash
  50. [17:11:03] <nslater> Come again?
  51. [17:11:14] <cygnus> provided the URL has an empty path (e.g., "http://foo.com/")
  52. [17:11:25] <cygnus> in that case, the minimal required user input is "foo.com"
  53. [17:11:37] <nslater> That's a BIG "providing"...
  54. [17:11:44] <cygnus> not really
  55. [17:11:48] <nslater> ... and what you are suggesting is in fact normalisation.
  56. [17:11:53] <cygnus> many OpenIDs right now have no path.
  57. [17:12:00] <cygnus> yes, it's already specified.
  58. [17:12:06] <nslater> Yes, it is. My OpenID has a path component.
  59. [17:12:23] <nslater> You HAVE to have a path, the question is if the path is longer than "/"
  60. [17:12:27] <cygnus> indeed.
  61. [17:12:54] <nslater> An OpenID could be anything... http://example.com/dsf/sfg/wer/r24rt/eg/fd/v/ for example.
  62. [17:13:00] <cygnus> that's right.
  63. [17:13:16] <nslater> So, what is the consensus on normalising the URI?
  64. [17:13:17] <cygnus> but in the case where the path is more than just "/", no modification to the path is made during normalization.
  65. [17:13:30] <nslater> Okay, not even to remove a trailing slash?
  66. [17:13:33] <cygnus> consensus? there is a specifed procedure of normalization.
  67. [17:14:03] <cygnus> that's right; the trailing slash is *added* when it is missing from the input *only* if there is no path, i.e., input = "foo.com"
  68. [17:14:06] <nslater> That's weird, a specified procedure of URI normalisation - I would say that is out side of the possible scope for any spec.
  69. [17:14:21] <cygnus> is it? :)
  70. [17:14:41] <nslater> How can the OpenID spec hope to proclaim how to normalise URIs without being in contravention of the URI spec?
  71. [17:15:01] <cygnus> the normalization is relevant only for OpenID, of course
  72. [17:15:21] <nslater> That breaks compatibility with URIs then IMO.
  73. [17:15:27] <cygnus> how?
  74. [17:16:14] <nslater> Well, if OpenID has defined a set procedure of normalisation that somehow treats two different URIs as identical in violation of the URI specification - then that breaks my expectations of being able to use a URI as defined by the specfication.
  75. [17:17:12] <cygnus> even though the spec clearly states what is equivalent by way of normalization.
  76. [17:17:22] <cygnus> so your expectations don't really matter.
  77. [17:17:30] <chowells79> OpenID specifies normalization by RFC 3986, with two exceptions.
  78. [17:17:32] <nslater> Which spec are you talking about?
  79. [17:17:51] <chowells79> Actually, only one exception.
  80. [17:18:07] <nslater> If the URI RFC says that URI A and URI B are different yet the OpenID spec says they are identical then OpenID DOES NOT USE URIs.
  81. [17:18:27] <chowells79> And that exception is something RFC 3986 doesn't cover, adding "http://" to entered values which don't contain a protocol.
  82. [17:19:27] <nslater> It is dubious that that does not count as breaking compatibility with URIs in some esoteric way.
  83. [17:19:35] <chowells79> How?
  84. [17:19:45] <chowells79> The URI spec requires the protocol to be specified.
  85. [17:19:57] <nslater> Does the URI spec mention if the protocol part of a URI is part of it's canonical form?
  86. [17:19:58] <cygnus> browsers perform that same step, anyway.
  87. [17:20:13] <nslater> cygnus, browsers do a LOT of non standard stuff.
  88. [17:20:18] <cygnus> yes. :)
  89. [17:20:23] <chowells79> nslater, the URI spec *requires* a protocol.
  90. [17:20:23] <cygnus> I'm not saying that makes it standard.
  91. [17:20:43] <chowells79> If one isn't provided, you haven't provided a URI.
  92. [17:21:13] <nslater> One can infer then that the protocol part of the canonical form and hence chaning it is changing the URI.
  93. [17:21:21] <nslater> s/chaning/changing/
  94. [17:22:04] <chowells79> You're not changing the "uri".
  95. [17:22:20] <chowells79> You're *creating* a URI, from incomplete input, which *is not* a URI.
  96. [17:22:32] <nslater> Right, okay - I see the difference.
  97. [17:23:04] <nslater> And, adding a slash to http://example.com is doing the same as it is not valid without a trailing slash.
  98. [17:23:27] <chowells79> Yes.
  99. [17:28:52] <nslater> Thanks for the help.
  100. [17:33:49] <chowells79> You're welcome
  101. [17:40:02] * nslater (n=nslater@tortoise.bytesexual.org) has left #openid
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  125. [21:03:54] <jibot> brylie is from Kansas and is interested in public access to media and technology.
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