IRC Log for #openid on 2007-07-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  28. [08:36:00] * Mitsurugi fins demà!
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  48. [15:17:27] <atoponce> i'm confused
  49. [15:17:36] <atoponce> i'm seeing more and more 'ban openid.org'
  50. [15:17:51] <atoponce> yet it's a provider, and openid is open source software
  51. [15:17:59] <atoponce> i guess i don't get it
  52. [15:20:27] <atoponce> i thought the idea behind openid, was to create providers regardless
  53. [15:20:34] <atoponce> decentralized login
  54. [15:20:49] <atoponce> so, i guess i don't see what's so bad about openid.org as a provider
  55. [15:29:39] <samsm> Have you read http://kveton.com/blog/2007/07/19/much-ado-about-org/ ?
  56. [15:30:03] * SamRose (n=SamRose@c-71-206-109-110.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  57. [15:30:55] <atoponce> yeah
  58. [15:31:09] <samsm> I understand the emotion, but I think the thing to do is ignore it, if openid has a real future, this is a small, temporary issue.
  59. [15:31:28] <atoponce> from what it looks like to me, openid.org was registered as a domain first, but nothing done
  60. [15:31:37] <atoponce> then openid came along, and took openid.net
  61. [15:31:54] <atoponce> openid.org pointed to it first, then later, decidid to become a provider
  62. [15:32:08] <atoponce> and now, we've got our panties in a twist
  63. [15:32:25] <samsm> The concern (as I see it) is based around what one person thought another person promised to do.
  64. [15:32:55] <atoponce> i think emotions and politics are getting the best of some
  65. [15:33:14] <atoponce> and did i infer correctly that myopenid.com should be banned as well?
  66. [15:33:47] <samsm> Heh, no.
  67. [15:34:22] <atoponce> from http://blog.phpbb.cc/2007/07/20/boycott-openidorg/
  68. [15:34:35] <atoponce> "Several providers (most notably JanRain’s myopenid.com) make unauthorized use of the OpenID trademark, which makes that common behavior, but still doesn’t make it right"
  69. [15:36:23] <atoponce> i didn't know the logo was trademarked. is there a place to find the licensing usage for it?
  70. [15:38:51] <samsm> I don't really know about the trademark thing, but that article doesn't say anything about boycotting myopenid.
  71. [15:40:09] <atoponce> well, we should be boycotting openid.org, because of unauthorized use of the trademarked logo, among other things. myopenid.com also uses the logo without authorization. that's how i inferred
  72. [15:40:18] <samsm> There are processes for dealing with misuse of trademarks and the like, I suspect if someone has a serious, legitimate gripe they'd go through one of those processes.
  73. [15:41:49] * idnar (i=mithrand@unaffiliated/idnar) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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  75. [15:42:14] <samsm> Or they should. As you've pointed out, this boycott mess is confusing and the general public is confused enough.
  76. [15:43:06] <atoponce> exactly
  77. [15:43:39] <atoponce> as i see it, openid.org is a valid provider. if they are infringing on trademarks and licenses, then that should be taken care of behind the scenes, out of public view
  78. [16:04:55] * idnar_ is now known as idnar
  79. [16:34:13] * XRIBot (n=XRIBot@athens.clusterspan.net) has joined #openid
  80. [16:44:56] <ichigo> i see the issue with openid.org as they don't clearly state they are one of many openid providers. but there are going to be thousands of openid providers that will do the same
  81. [16:46:26] <ichigo> and personally i think it ought to be alright to use the openid logo as openid provider. the logo is used on sign in forms at consumers. so imho it needs to be displayed at the providers also usability wise
  82. [16:54:49] <keturn> licensing status of the OpenID logo may a little murky. It's *always* been encouraged for widespread use, but I get the feeling that Companies With Legal Departments can't find the documentation that allows them to use it.
  83. [16:55:39] <keturn> not sure about that though, I've just heard a lot of people ask what the license is and rarely get a straight answer
  84. [16:59:34] <keturn> and yes, the .org case is exactly the sort of case where you'd want to exercise trademark rights, and I wonder if failing to do so now will set a precedent that makes it unenforceable in the future.
  85. [17:00:03] <atoponce> i can't find any docs on the licensing terms of the logo or its trademark
  86. [17:03:45] <trel1023> http://openid.net/pipermail/general/2007-January/001422.html
  87. [17:17:06] <trel1023> http://lists.danga.com/pipermail/yadis/2005-June/000990.html
  88. [17:18:06] <trel1023> word from the owner that he'll transfer to the community once the community is officially filed and can take over ownership/licensing.
  89. [17:47:22] * etnt (n=etnt@h246n2fls301o253.telia.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  90. [17:49:48] <samsm> Am I misinterpreting, or is it possible that the logo could end up just like openid.org?
  91. [17:51:38] <trel1023> no, i think that's a valid concern
  92. [17:52:04] * etnt (n=etnt@h246n2fls301o253.telia.com) has joined #openid
  93. [17:52:05] <trel1023> we need to get the organizational infrastructure in place and get these questions cleaned up and published
  94. [17:56:46] * j3h (n=j3h@dsl001-133-129.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #openid
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  97. [18:56:39] <keturn> the Foundation minutes from June 7th said incorporation status is "very close."
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  100. [19:38:26] <ichigo> it might be a bit fucked up but what about chosing another name and securing the domains?
  101. [19:38:56] <ichigo> but well that really would have a bad impact on the whole project
  102. [19:39:02] <ichigo> and adoption
  103. [19:40:15] <ichigo> is there no way to set this issue in a friendly way? did he refuse to make clear that openid is an open standard and that openid.org is one of many providers?
  104. [19:42:13] <ichigo> are there openid rules that service providers need to play by? would be a good idea to put that clause somewhere. "every openid provider must make clear that it is one of many providers and that the user may choose his provider freely"
  105. [19:43:10] <ichigo> and that every service provider links to the official openid website and only may use the openid logo like for example amazon allows the use of the "aws logos"
  106. [19:43:28] <ichigo> is there something like such rules yet?
  107. [19:44:36] <ichigo> i still think it would be a good thing to allow the use of the openid logo by service providers but only in a way that it is not confusing
  108. [19:52:14] <samsm> I don't think it should be an openid provider's responsibility to promote alternative providers. For one thing, if that provider is the exclusive openid provider for certain services, such a promotion may be inaccurate and not make any sense.
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  110. [20:17:19] <ichigo> samsm: thats a valid argument. i havent thought about that (like government use or the sun openids and so on)
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  116. [21:50:04] <pfak> Heh, so I've figured that nobody on my site actually uses OpenID. =\
  117. [21:50:06] * marclaporte (n=Marc_Lap@tikiwiki/marclaporte) has joined #openid
  118. [21:50:06] <jibot> marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
  119. [21:57:15] <ichigo> pfak: which website
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