IRC Log for #openid on 2007-08-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:00:15] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Unless jibot does something other than announcing when people join, punt him.
- [00:00:25] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> If "punt" means what I think it means.
- [00:00:32] * tbbrown (n=tbbrown@doc-24-206-189-53.kw.tx.cebridge.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [00:02:14] <idnar>
heh
- [00:11:22] <_keturn>
GabeW: It looks like you're outnumbered on this point, I'm afraid.
- [00:42:05] <GabeW>
ok
- [00:42:39] <GabeW>
feh
- [00:43:41] <GabeW>
i need to make a better bot
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- [01:12:06] <openidpibbrelay>
<cygnus> GabeW: a bot that used keywords to supply openid.net wiki articles would be much more useful for this channel, IMHO
- [01:12:58] <openidpibbrelay>
<cygnus> that way, when the Nth person asks about setting up an [RP, server, identity page, yadis document, other implementation, ...] the bot can maybe give out a few URLs of interest.
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- [03:46:48] <GabeW>
re: bots
- [03:46:56] <GabeW>
I really like a bot who gives me a context about people showing up
- [03:47:05] <GabeW>
it would be nice, for example, for the bot to show theiropenid
- [03:47:07] <GabeW>
openid
- [03:47:15] <GabeW>
and verify that the owner of the openid is the nick
- [03:47:16] <GabeW>
somehow
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- [04:38:11] * stub (n=stub@canonical/launchpad/stub) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
- [05:00:16] * tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) has left #openid
- [05:39:44] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It's not really a bad idea, but most of the messages are pretty useless and I've seen them a hundred times before.
- [05:40:14] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It also means that the channel will be highlighted like there's a new message, when it's only jibot.
- [05:40:24] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It's even worse on Pibb where I don't see joins but I do see jibot.
- [05:40:25] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Which actually makes it kind of useful.
- [05:40:52] <GabeW>
well
- [05:41:06] <GabeW>
openidpibbrelay is still kind of a hack
- [05:41:07] <openidpibbrelay>
GabeW: Error: "is" is not a valid command.
- [05:41:20] <GabeW>
$openidpibbrelay is still kind of a hack
- [05:41:49] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Huh. I don't see the error message from the relay on Pibb.
- [05:42:30] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> its smart
- [05:42:40] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> hah
- [05:42:42] <openidpibbrelay>
<Gabe Wachob> or not
- [05:43:33] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I'd guess "or not". :)
- [05:46:08] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> are there errors messages showing up?
- [05:46:28] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> on IRC
- [05:46:50] <GabeW>
yes
- [05:46:51] <GabeW>
on irc
- [05:46:58] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Someone said "openidpibbrelay is ..." and the relay responded that "is" is an invalid command.
- [05:47:29] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> nice
- [05:47:41] <keturn>
I thought it was a pretty good comeback.
- [05:47:51] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Heh.
- [05:47:52] <GabeW>
that was me
- [05:47:57] <GabeW>
so I prefixed it with a $
- [05:48:01] <openidpibbrelay>
<Kevin Fox> hehe
- [05:48:02] <GabeW>
just cuz
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- [08:28:11] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> why does it sound insecure do you think?
- [08:28:17] * pvandewyngaerde (n=pvandewy@174.61-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) Quit ("http://www.last.fm/user/pvandewyngaerde/ http://www.jamendo.com http://amarok.kde.org/")
- [08:28:42] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> seems no less secure than using session id's on websites to begin with
- [08:31:16] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> certainly no worse than loading a page including your session id in a cookie, and having the page display your openid in the body some place, there is no other data exposed
- [08:31:26] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> certainly chat is not a high security application either
- [08:34:44] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> I'm really wondering more on ways to improve the efficiency of said system or perhaps make it more redundant in this case
- [08:35:27] * stub (n=stub@tetkyo044182.tkyo.te.ftth2.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp) has joined #openid
- [08:42:00] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Yeah, I also think session ID cookies served over http are insecure.
- [08:42:12] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> If you verify by IP, it's not so much of a problem, though.
- [08:42:34] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> But how your system works, anyone else who knows the IP and SID can log in.
- [08:42:36] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I'm sure it's the same with many other web-based systems.
- [08:42:45] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> But I still don't like it.
- [08:46:12] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> ip aye?
- [08:46:22] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> and my open id!
- [08:46:53] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> but yeah, i see your point.. but also.. authentication over the web is all about shared secrets!
- [08:47:03] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> how would you suggest I go about remembering a user's logged in state
- [08:48:59] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> oh, another question
- [08:49:50] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I don't know.
- [08:50:00] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I don't know.
- [08:50:10] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I'm working on forgetting PHP.
- [08:50:12] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> Oh :/
- [08:50:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> yeah, i was too
- [08:51:03] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> but me being moneyless and rails being expensive to host and nearly no hosts actually knowing that ruby can actually run in a cgi mode.. makes it a bit of a lost cause I guess
- [08:52:27] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> Hey, the little minus button to go back to one line chat entry box doesn't work in safari 3 beta
- [08:52:48] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> *pokes pibb with a reload stick*
- [08:55:04] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> is this doing the irc relay thing or no?
- [08:58:50] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It is.
- [08:59:23] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Ruby? Who uses Ruby? Python FTW!
- [08:59:25] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Which probably has a worse web host situation.
- [08:59:34] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> python is scary
- [08:59:45] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> my crazy brain doesn't do python or perl or c or any of that!
- [08:59:47] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> or java! especially java!
- [09:00:06] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Python's not scary.
- [09:00:08] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Ruby's the one with the single-letter variables.
- [09:00:18] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> and for the exact same reason, not actionscript 3! since macromedia has slowly turned it in to java anyway!
- [09:00:28] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> not very many of them >_>
- [09:00:39] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> its not like you're forced to use the single letter variables either
- [09:00:49] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It has like 20.
- [09:00:50] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> they're just a convenience for freaky kind of people
- [09:01:00] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> There are non-single-letter equivalents to them? Cool.
- [09:01:30] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> not always, but generally they're non oopy equivilants to info you can access oopily anyway
- [09:01:40] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> like $! is the same as exception_object.to_string
- [09:02:12] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> $1 is the same as object_returned_from_regexp_match[1]
- [09:02:24] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Cool.
- [09:02:26] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> excuse my excessively descriptive variable names
- [09:02:35] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> I use the oopy ways myself
- [09:02:46] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> makes my brain stay upright
- [09:03:27] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Also, Python has like 50 different web frameworks. Rails has no competition.
- [09:04:29] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> it does, there are smaller frameworks available
- [09:06:44] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> just none with the publicity
- [09:06:55] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I'm sure it doesn't have as many as Python, though! :D
- [09:07:05] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> rails it fun to work with until you actually go to host it and realise its going to eat 60 megs of ram or so
- [09:07:06] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Which ones? I've only heard of one that hasn't been updated in years.
- [09:07:15] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Not that I've looked or anything.
- [09:07:25] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I'm not that interested in Ruby.
- [09:07:36] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> you don't actually need a framework either, ruby can work in cgi, part of its standard library includes basic templating stuff and cgi tools
- [09:07:57] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> there's a few, most made by devs who were shocked and upset when they saw the ram usage
- [09:08:17] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> hopefully new versions of ruby will help fix that
- [09:08:18] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> ruby 2 looks to be really nifty
- [09:08:48] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> I know. I've made some basic Ruby CGI stuff.
- [09:08:50] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> And a lot more basic Python CGI stuff.
- [09:09:00] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> looks like they might be trying to go for php's 'really fast so its worth all the rubbish' position, but without so much rubbish
- [09:09:01] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> (FastCGI actually, but it's only 5 slightly trickier.)
- [09:09:30] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> I havent, what was your experience with the ruby cgi stuff? i am very curious about giving this php stuff the finger
- [09:09:50] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Seeing this entirely off-topic conversation in IRC with 35 other people watching makes me nervous. :P
- [09:09:51] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It was only super-basic.
- [09:10:31] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> PM then?
- [09:10:52] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> The script is only like 30 lines long.
- [09:11:04] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> It's slightly more than a hello world.
- [09:11:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> uhuh
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- [09:12:04] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Blaah. It's still in svn. No public URL.
- [09:12:48] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> rails made me fall in love with ruby, then made me fall out of love with rails when I tried to host it
- [09:15:13] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Heh.
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- [10:54:35] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> I'm trying the consumer example in the janrain php openid library
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- [10:54:46] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> its not working..
- [10:55:26] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> with my aol openid delegated from creativepony.com, after i click grant on the aol idp page, the demo says OpenID authentication failed: Server denied check_authentication :/
- [10:57:00] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> Okay.. now i'm really confused
- [10:57:20] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> it works on my local host, a dead simple mac with apache turned on and the bundled php switched on..
- [10:57:31] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> but not on mediatemple grid hosting
- [11:03:45] * etnt (n=etnt@90-230-215-241-no44.tbcn.telia.com) Quit ("bye")
- [11:08:11] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> and now its working O_o
- [11:09:14] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> and now its not!
- [11:11:17] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> right, so i've tried to login with it about 20 times now and just one time it works and has nothing to do with how I press the buttons on aol or if I ask it to remember the site (which never works)
- [11:13:32] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> what the hell does server denied check_authentication mean?
- [11:13:52] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> the example isn't even in dumb mode! though it sure is acting dumb :/
- [11:15:25] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> maybe that worthless error message really means that the filestore is misbehaving in the odd grid environment :/
- [11:20:10] <openidpibbrelay>
<Blueberry> Note to all! /tmp is useless in grid servers as requests are not always served from the same physical server!
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- [13:13:13] <Blueberry>
Hey guys
- [13:13:47] <Blueberry>
I'm having some trouble reading the janrain php openid library docs
- [13:14:27] <Blueberry>
when completeing the auth transaction (after user comes back from their id provider), how can I see which openid it was that they just authenticated?
- [13:14:58] <Blueberry>
It doesn't seem to be modeled in the classes.. should I just be poking around in the query string looking for this information?
- [13:24:11] <Blueberry>
I guess that will have to do
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- [16:41:54] <openidpibbrelay>
<keturn> Blueberry: should be the identity_url attribute of the SuccessResponse returned by the Consumer's complete method.
- [16:42:15] <openidpibbrelay>
<keturn> poking in the query string will actually give you the _wrong_ thing for OpenID 1.1 with delegation
- [16:44:58] * tbbrown (n=tbbrown@205.196.178.27) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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- [17:51:31] * keturn (n=kevint@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) has joined #openid
- [17:51:31] <jibot>
keturn is Kevin Turner
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- [21:11:07] * jeremyb wonders if there's any way to link identities with a formal relationship or rename, redirect, etc.
- [21:20:10] <keturn>
hmm. not that I know of.
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- [21:20:49] <openidpibbrelay>
<jeremyb> personas on roids? :)
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- [23:39:09] * nicerobot (n=nicerobo@fl-76-5-48-170.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit ("cyaimo.u.t.")
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- [23:47:06] <GabeW>
i think I saw scoble pop out of the elevator in PA as I was going down
- [23:47:08] <GabeW>
woops
- [23:47:27] <GabeW>
in case anyone here cares, but its a "wrong channel" ;-)
- [23:47:50] <Peng>
Ooh, that reminds me. I should see if there are any new meessages on Pibb.
- [23:47:55] <GabeW>
haha
- [23:48:01] <jeremyb>
port authority?
- [23:48:10] <jeremyb>
heh
- [23:48:20] <GabeW>
palo alto at the facebook garage thingie
- [23:48:23] <GabeW>
no mention of openid ;-)
- [23:48:29] <GabeW>
or open anything
- [23:48:50] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Wait, Palo Alto? Isn't "PA" supposed to mean Pennsylvania?
- [23:49:14] <GabeW>
not here, it doesn't ;-)
- [23:49:42] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Weirdos.
- [23:51:03] <jeremyb>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PA
- [23:51:25] <GabeW>
palo alto is on there
- [23:52:49] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Oh, right, Panama. I was wondering if it was a country code.
- [23:53:20] <jeremyb>
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Robert_Scoble_%28cropped%29.jpg
- [23:58:22] <openidpibbrelay>
<Matt Nordhoff> Scoble haas red hair? I always assumed he had like black hair.
- [23:59:05] <jeremyb>
i guess so
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