IRC Log for #openid on 2007-10-26
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [03:58:23] <VxJasonxV>
http://vxjasonxv.livejournal.com/500799.html
- [03:58:24] <VxJasonxV>
:D
- [04:03:37] <GabeW>
saw that
- [04:03:53] <GabeW>
python openid is also in ubuntu
- [04:04:58] <GabeW>
not yet
- [04:05:00] <GabeW>
woops
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keturn is Kevin Turner
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- [13:41:51] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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- [18:16:24] <jibot>
marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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- [20:38:56] <GabeW>
hey janrain guys - any of the python folks here?
- [20:39:00] <GabeW>
or php
- [20:39:08] <GabeW>
i have a question about your impelemtnations
- [20:39:28] <GabeW>
and ruby while we're at it
- [20:42:33] <_keturn>
GabeW: sure
- [20:42:54] <GabeW>
kinda answering my own question, but I"m wondering how you are parsing the XRD documents
- [20:42:59] <GabeW>
i see in python you are using elementreee
- [20:43:24] <GabeW>
there are some issues with the ordering of certain elements in XRD documents coming out of neustar GRS for XRI resolution
- [20:43:26] <_keturn>
ElementTree in python, rexml ruby
- [20:44:11] <GabeW>
i don't know ruby/rexml
- [20:44:40] <GabeW>
i'm looking in the ruby 2.x.x source
- [20:45:02] * _keturn actually has his fingers in that ruby module right now
- [20:45:27] <GabeW>
its spooky how similar python and ruby seem
- [20:46:09] <_keturn>
this is probably especially true for our ruby library code, because we write our ruby library by copying our python one
- [20:46:23] <GabeW>
eheh
- [20:46:24] <GabeW>
yah
- [20:46:28] <GabeW>
pythonic ruby
- [20:47:14] <GabeW>
its like when I first looked at C#, I swear I could write a translator to Java that would be about 90% correct
- [20:47:56] <GabeW>
in which file does the XML parsing get done in the ruby lib?
- [20:48:00] <GabeW>
having a hard time finding it
- [20:49:18] <_keturn>
if you're looking in the 2.x branch, you'll have to look in attic/lib/yadis/xrds.rb
- [20:49:24] <GabeW>
python-> ruby: s/None/nil/, s/ /end/
- [20:49:25] <GabeW>
;-)
- [20:49:26] <GabeW>
oooh ok
- [20:49:32] <GabeW>
attic?
- [20:49:41] <_keturn>
yah, I'm working on moving it out of attic at the moment
- [20:49:45] <GabeW>
got it
- [20:50:46] <GabeW>
using xpath i see
- [20:51:51] <GabeW>
should I look in php-openid and php-server for the XRD parsing code there?
- [20:53:50] <GabeW>
i see php-server is just a tar
- [20:54:25] * GabeW gives an offering to the janrainian gods
- [20:59:28] <GabeW>
_keturn: you guys have anything else? Perl? C#?
- [20:59:45] <GabeW>
this list on the openid.net site seems to have some abandoned projects and I"m wondering what libs I shoudl really care about
- [20:59:48] <GabeW>
http://wiki.openid.net/Libraries
- [21:10:56] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> by php-server you probably mean the "standalone PHP server" which is an app that runs on top of the library
- [21:11:09] <GabeW>
yah, i mean the thing in the repository called php-server
- [21:11:28] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> which repository?
- [21:12:25] <GabeW>
http://openidenabled.com/files/
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- [21:13:04] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> ugh, we should actually come up with a name for that thing.
- [21:13:22] * _keturn (n=acapnoti@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/keturn) has joined #openid
- [21:13:26] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> as someone else recently pointed out, "PHP server" is not an especially illuminating name for that package..
- [21:13:42] <GabeW>
ehe
- [21:13:43] <GabeW>
yah
- [21:13:44] <GabeW>
well
- [21:16:57] <_keturn>
man. I get shut out at foos and my computer dies.
- [21:19:53] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> the causality is clear.
- [21:20:07] <_keturn>
but which is cause and which effect?
- [21:20:40] <GabeW>
are we having a merovingian-style discussion?
- [21:21:29] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> the foosball shut-out is the cause, in addition to just being a bad omen.
- [21:21:42] <GabeW>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingian_(The_Matrix)
- [21:21:48] <jibot>
cheers|TheMovies is aka cheers; cheers is an OmniWeb dev & was formerly known as cheers_ & is *still* invisible & is now mrs. cheers & is ummmmmmmmmm & is mean
- [21:21:59] <GabeW>
?
- [21:22:01] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> which reminds me, didn't Larry get shut out earlier?
- [21:22:03] <GabeW>
jibot is nuts
- [21:23:07] <PibbRelay>
<kevin fox> Larry and Mike were shut out by Jason and Kevin
- [21:23:31] <GabeW>
Like all sentient programs within the Matrix (and the Machines in the real world), the Merovingian is a determinist, which is the basis for his dissertation on causality being the nature of the universe. Due to the conflicting nature between himself and the Oracle, the Merovingian decries her as a "fortune teller"; yet reveals in the third film that he secretly longs for "the eyes of the Oracle", which he believes would allow him fantasti
- [21:25:58] <PibbRelay>
<VxJasonxV> fantasti
- [21:26:10] <VxJasonxV>
that was a nice end to the paste :D
- [21:30:08] * falkor81 (n=brianlan@rrcs-24-106-184-150.se.biz.rr.com) Quit ()
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- [21:48:06] <GabeW>
hey janrainers
- [21:48:25] <GabeW>
question about myopenid.com - the XRDS that it produces
- [21:48:28] <GabeW>
anyone there?
- [21:49:34] <PibbRelay>
<cygnus> what's up?
- [21:49:43] <GabeW>
hey
- [21:49:43] <GabeW>
so
- [21:49:54] <GabeW>
you guys produce XRD elements with Service/LocalID
- [21:50:09] <GabeW>
thats actually not kosher according to the schema
- [21:50:25] <GabeW>
i'm wondering why thats there
- [21:53:10] <GabeW>
i'm converting our xsd to relaxng (sooo much easier to understand than XSD and allow us to express some constraints that are not possible in XSD) - anyway just trying to make sure the XRDs out in the wild aren't going to break - turns out I'm finding some surprises ;)
- [21:56:09] <_keturn>
what huh?
- [21:56:29] <GabeW>
myopenid.com
- [21:56:53] <GabeW>
<Service priority="0">
- [21:56:53] <GabeW>
<Type>http://specs.openid.net/auth/2.0/signon</Type>
- [21:56:53] <GabeW>
<Type>http://openid.net/sreg/1.0</Type>
- [21:56:53] <GabeW>
<Type>http://openid.net/extensions/sreg/1.1</Type>
- [21:56:53] <GabeW>
<Type>http://schemas.openid.net/pape/policies/2007/06/phishing-resistant</Type>
- [21:56:56] <GabeW>
<URI>http://www.myopenid.com/server</URI>
- [21:56:58] <GabeW>
<LocalID>http://gwachob.myopenid.com/</LocalID>
- [21:57:01] <GabeW>
</Service>
- [21:57:03] <GabeW>
that LocalID down there
- [21:57:35] <GabeW>
(that XML comes from my myopenid.com XRD)
- [21:58:00] <GabeW>
that LocalID is not allowed in the schema
- [21:58:03] <_keturn>
=drummond said that LocalID could serve the purpose of openid:Delegate
- [21:58:18] <GabeW>
headslap
- [21:59:38] <GabeW>
well
- [21:59:39] <GabeW>
feh
- [21:59:40] <GabeW>
argh
- [22:00:41] <_keturn>
see openid 2.0 draft 12, section 7.3.2.1.2. Claimed Identifier Element
- [22:00:51] <GabeW>
hehe - I'll have to check
- [22:01:46] <GabeW>
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh
- [22:02:01] <GabeW>
self-conflicting specs
- [22:02:02] <GabeW>
love it
- [22:02:27] <GabeW>
at least i'm finding this before they are finalized
- [22:02:31] <_keturn>
granted, I think that depends on some version of xrds that's not yet published on http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=xri
- [22:02:57] <GabeW>
oh ait
- [22:02:58] <GabeW>
wait
- [22:03:04] <GabeW>
well
- [22:03:11] <GabeW>
ok
- [22:03:13] <GabeW>
i see the problem
- [22:03:55] <GabeW>
yah, the problem is that the ordering in the XRI res spec for some new elements (like this one) hasn't been captured in the XSD - I'm capturing that order now in RelaxNG
- [22:04:03] <GabeW>
so you guys just stick it at the end
- [22:04:28] <GabeW>
which uh, seems perfectly reasonable for you guys to have done without further guidance
- [22:04:33] <GabeW>
:-/
- [22:05:11] <GabeW>
well, actually, though, the ordering you guys produce is still off
- [22:05:28] <GabeW>
no wait
- [22:05:30] <GabeW>
grrr
- [22:06:10] <GabeW>
the plain text sections in xri res have been chopped up and reassembled since earlier versions - so I'm trying to track across versions - very confusing heheh
- [22:06:22] <PibbRelay>
<VxJasonxV> the epic struggle from within GabeW :P
- [22:06:32] <GabeW>
you have *no* idea ...
- [22:06:35] <idnar>
heh
- [22:07:07] <GabeW>
ok, it may in fact be, that there is absolutely no problem with myopenid.com... fancy that.
- [22:07:20] <GabeW>
depending on how I choose to write the schema ;-)
- [22:12:08] <GabeW>
ok, so i'm putting LocalID after URI - so myopenid doesn't have to change
- [22:13:08] <_keturn>
must the ordering always be significant? i'd always considered the order of the children of a service element to be pretty irrelevant
- [22:13:15] <GabeW>
its fixed
- [22:13:24] <GabeW>
most of you all are using xpath
- [22:13:34] <GabeW>
but ifyou are using pull parsing, its easier to have order fixed
- [22:16:38] <GabeW>
its a postel's law thing
- [22:17:06] <GabeW>
also
- [22:17:29] <GabeW>
because there's extensibility - you want to put the known elements first so that you can more efficiently pull them out - assuming you are using XPATH processing
- [22:17:42] <GabeW>
which is pretty much unconcerned with pul
- [22:17:52] <GabeW>
efficiency
- [22:17:56] <GabeW>
(s/pul//)
- [22:18:42] <GabeW>
OTOH, its the wild internet and who knows what the hell will happen
- [22:21:58] <chowells79>
I thought one of the main strengths of schemas over dtds was that they allowed arbitrary ordering of children.
- [22:23:05] <GabeW>
"arbitrary" == specified?
- [22:23:10] <GabeW>
or unspecified?
- [22:23:38] <GabeW>
xsd is pain
- [22:24:53] <GabeW>
it's built on a model of the XML that isn't appropriate in many cases, and makes expressing what should be simple things complicated
- [22:25:40] <GabeW>
primarily, xsd is about defining a namespace of elements and element types
- [22:25:49] <GabeW>
whereas relaxng is about specifying document correctness
- [22:26:12] <GabeW>
(or element correctness if used with the related specs such as NRL, etc)
- [22:26:27] <GabeW>
relaxng ~ patterns, xsd ~ objects
- [22:29:06] <GabeW>
er
- [22:29:19] <GabeW>
patterns as in patterns of elements and attributes, etc - not patterns in the "Gang of Four" sense
- [22:53:22] * tbbrown (n=tom@cpe-66-68-114-152.austin.res.rr.com) Quit ("leaving")
- [23:40:12] <GabeW>
ok, _keturn
- [23:40:22] <GabeW>
myopenid is fully compliant ;0
- [23:40:24] <GabeW>
:)
- [23:40:57] <_keturn>
yaay
- [23:41:27] <GabeW>
i have the power
- [23:41:31] <GabeW>
i Made It So
- [23:41:41] <GabeW>
But
- [23:41:51] <GabeW>
with great power comes great responsibility (writing RelaxNG schema)
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