IRC Log for #openid on 2007-12-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:22:03] <ronny> better - is there any non-javaish openid lib for python
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  6. [01:07:40] <jibot> Skwid_ is cool
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  8. [01:25:42] <ronny> lol ?
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  11. [01:49:00] <jibot> Skwid_ is cool
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  13. [01:55:17] <donomo> you want something more procedural?
  14. [01:56:09] <ronny> donomo: no - something not like java (there are more nice ways to do oop in python)
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  16. [02:00:13] <jibot> Woosta is deeply sorry that the channel gets spammed every time he joins
  17. [02:01:08] <Woosta> Anyone know anything about www.myopenid.com and the simple reg extension?
  18. [02:01:40] <donomo> Woosta: that depends on what the question is
  19. [02:01:47] <Woosta> LOL
  20. [02:02:06] <Woosta> I send a user (me while testing :-D) to $check_url&openid.sreg.optional=email,nickname,fullname
  21. [02:02:21] <Woosta> where $check_url is the regular (working) openid.mode=checkid_immediate request.
  22. [02:02:33] <Woosta> However myopenid.com never asks for my permission to reveal these details, and never passes them back to me.
  23. [02:03:16] <donomo> Woosta: you setup a 'profile' to associate with a given website
  24. [02:03:31] <donomo> login to myopenid.com and poke around.
  25. [02:03:50] <Woosta> Yeah, I have a profile under "Registration Personas" there
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  27. [02:05:03] <donomo> is it associated to the site you're logging in to?
  28. [02:05:08] <Woosta> not yet
  29. [02:05:15] <Woosta> that would be counter productive
  30. [02:05:25] <donomo> :)
  31. [02:14:51] <Woosta> I take it that means you haven't a clue .. ?
  32. [02:15:40] <donomo> ? associating the profile to the site you're logging in with would be the next step
  33. [02:16:13] <Woosta> yes, that's the problem. I'm never asked to do thattttttttttt
  34. [02:16:21] <Woosta> (without all those 't's)
  35. [02:16:52] <ronny> guess i wont do openid the next few months cause i cant allocatee time to do a nice lib for it
  36. [02:17:09] <Woosta> as per this screenshot: http://www.flickr.com/photos/plaxo/839964326/
  37. [02:17:58] <donomo> i just poked around the site. its not obvious to me how to do that
  38. [02:18:52] <Woosta> Nevermind
  39. [02:18:59] <Woosta> It's part of the protocol, not the site
  40. [02:21:14] <donomo> whats part of the procotol? i thought we were talking about the selection of a profile.
  41. [02:22:16] <Woosta> Do you understand it at all? If not, it's a waste of time going into it
  42. [02:23:12] <donomo> i understand that to get those simplereg fields, myopenid.com needs to associate a profile with the site you're logging into, which is a configuration on the myopenid site.
  43. [02:24:08] <Woosta> The user will be redirected to their OpenID provider's web site. They will be asked to sign in (unless they've recently signed in there), they will be asked whether they trust your web site, and if you've asked for simple registration info, they'll be asked what info they want to share with you. Once they complete this process, the OpenID provider will redirect the user back to the return_to URL you supplied, which will then let you initiate
  44. [02:24:08] <Woosta> your complete action to finish the job.
  45. [02:24:16] <Woosta> From: http://www.plaxo.com/api/openid_recipe
  46. [02:24:34] <Woosta> You don't do it preemptively at myopenid
  47. [02:24:41] <Woosta> that would be counter productive
  48. [02:25:27] <donomo> myopenid works for me as you describe - im asked what profile to use the first time i login to a given site.
  49. [02:25:34] <donomo> if its not working that way for you, i dont know why.
  50. [02:25:57] <Woosta> right.
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  53. [04:05:22] <keturn> Woosta: are you using OpenID v 1.x or 2.0?
  54. [04:08:59] * stub (n=stub@canonical/launchpad/stub) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  55. [04:09:23] <keturn> ronny: please drop a note to the dev list at openidenabled about what sort of library you'd like to see
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  57. [05:08:52] <Woosta> 1.x ... but I'm not here .. leave a message after the beep!
  58. [05:31:49] <pfak> I can't figure out if there's any point in upgrading our idp to 2.0
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  61. [06:08:22] <gaurav_> ls
  62. [06:08:57] <gaurav_> i want to do openid login with ajax
  63. [06:09:06] <gaurav_> help
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  68. [06:14:13] <gaurav_> help
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  85. [07:01:23] <radix> keturn: Ok I have a better question
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  87. [07:02:27] <radix> Say I want to unit test my method that takes a request and passes its data to complete(). What combinations of data should I put in the request? I don't have the first idea about what data goes in there, based on my reading of the consumer documentation.
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  114. [13:03:50] <jibot> Skwid_ is cool
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  136. [18:07:11] <keturn> radix: if we've encapsulated it right, you have no idea, you're right
  137. [18:08:11] <keturn> any more than you know what goes in to SSHTransportBase.getPacket if you're writing a conch application
  138. [18:08:26] <keturn> or dataReceived I guess
  139. [18:10:19] <radix> yeah, ok
  140. [18:10:29] <radix> so I guess I'm just going to go back to faking out the openid interface entirely
  141. [18:10:37] <radix> and just test that I'm massaging arbitrary request data properly
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  146. [18:58:05] <radix> hmm. openid consumerism is hard to test locally. I guess I need a publicish dev server.
  147. [18:59:02] <Roebot> Or radix you can spend the rest of the day marvelling at this photo: http://images.tabulas.com/2/m/s41561ca103653_40.jpg and not bother working today. :-)
  148. [18:59:20] * radix twitches
  149. [19:00:19] <radix> but it's a holiday! I want to spending it having fun ;-)
  150. [19:00:22] <Roebot> her's some bkg radix http://www.mindtouch.com/blog/2007/12/24/merry-christmas-from-mindtouch/ you'll love it...
  151. [19:00:37] <Roebot> dude, what can be more fun than marveling at the glory of those photos
  152. [19:01:20] <radix> writing software! hooray :-)
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  158. [20:38:00] * kalkin- (n=kalkin@koln-4db4a56d.pool.einsundeins.de) has joined #openid
  159. [20:38:02] <kalkin-> hi
  160. [20:38:30] <kalkin-> if i use openid authentification, i don't need ssl, do i?
  161. [20:39:07] <kalkin-> the http digest authentification does all the security and encryption magic for me
  162. [20:39:32] <kalkin-> so it's impossible to sniff my openid password?
  163. [20:57:55] <radix> kalkin-: are you speaking from the perspective of a consumer or a provider?
  164. [20:58:06] <radix> (and by "consumer" I mean "reliant party")
  165. [20:59:45] * NASA (n=nasa@78-62-27-29.ip.zebra.lt) Quit ("Ate")
  166. [21:05:15] <ronny> is there any simplified information for implementing customers/providers
  167. [21:05:25] <ronny> the specs are rather large
  168. [21:05:39] <VxJasonxV> use a pre-existing library
  169. [21:06:13] <ronny> openid-python sucks - want to implement a more nice one (ie not looking like java)
  170. [21:06:19] <VxJasonxV> errr
  171. [21:06:31] <VxJasonxV> then change the look, and leave the backend intact...
  172. [21:06:50] <radix> python-openid does is not "looking like java".
  173. [21:07:05] <radix> besides, all it requires is, what, three method calls?
  174. [21:07:14] <radix> it's trivial to use.
  175. [21:07:47] <ronny> from my point of view the whole lib sucks and is not very pythonic
  176. [21:08:08] <ronny> so i want to do a more nice one
  177. [21:08:17] <radix> What's more nice than three method calls?
  178. [21:08:18] <VxJasonxV> write your own lib
  179. [21:08:20] <radix> two method calls?
  180. [21:08:21] <radix> one?
  181. [21:08:25] <VxJasonxV> none!
  182. [21:08:29] <radix> I guess so.
  183. [21:08:31] <VxJasonxV> OpenID over Avian Carrier!
  184. [21:08:34] <VxJasonxV> or something
  185. [21:09:08] <radix> I'm not a python-openid developer, but I've used it and looked at its code, and it's perfectly usable.
  186. [21:09:22] <ronny> it usable
  187. [21:09:34] <ronny> but that doesnt make it a good python lib
  188. [21:09:44] <radix> do you really have nothing better to do that reimplement a Python OpenID library purely on the basis of irrelevant (and probably misguided) aesthetics?
  189. [21:11:14] <ronny> i care to use only very good python libs for my python projects - and python-openid just resembles all the javaish misstakes i see all over the place
  190. [21:11:37] <radix> python-openid is a very good python lib.
  191. [21:11:42] <radix> It has very thorough unit tests.
  192. [21:11:46] <radix> It has a simple API.
  193. [21:11:51] <ronny> from what point of view
  194. [21:11:56] <radix> Those things I just said.
  195. [21:12:21] <TheSheep> radix: simple api?
  196. [21:12:31] <radix> TheSheep: "three method calls" :)
  197. [21:12:34] <ronny> from some points of view eben unittest and threading are good modules - even tough they are complete javaish and dont fit python
  198. [21:12:49] <TheSheep> radix: then the example code shipped with it is blown up
  199. [21:12:50] <ronny> radix: thats just not true if you want to extend it
  200. [21:12:58] <radix> ronny: Oh, do you want to extend it?
  201. [21:13:02] <TheSheep> radix: I tried to read it once, but given up about line 500
  202. [21:13:04] <radix> ronny: Now we are getting to some real points!
  203. [21:13:15] <ronny> of course i want to extend
  204. [21:13:18] <radix> Instead of bullshit, vague "it's javaish" complaints.
  205. [21:13:25] <radix> ronny: Ok. And how does python-openid make it hard for you to extend it?
  206. [21:13:48] <ronny> bbl - getting called away - back in 30 minutes
  207. [21:13:53] <radix> Okie.
  208. [21:14:48] <ronny> ah - that problem just solved itself :)
  209. [21:15:01] <TheSheep> radix: do you know of any *simple* example of using python-openid, not like the examples shipped with it?
  210. [21:15:50] <radix> TheSheep: did the examples bug out? I'm sorry to hear that. Did you file a bug with the developers?
  211. [21:16:03] <ronny> radix: well - im just over the ap docs ( wich are the only docs i found) and i find myself thinking "what the hell does this complicated shit do" all over the place
  212. [21:16:38] <ronny> it migh be simple to use 8if you happen to know how), but the complete api is by no means simple
  213. [21:16:43] <radix> ronny: I suggest reading consumer.py's docstring. It's probably the best summary of using the API that I've seen.
  214. [21:17:01] <TheSheep> radix: they did not bug out, I just can't figure them out, they are horribly long, one includes its own web server and the other uses a huuge web framework...
  215. [21:17:02] <radix> ronny: Sure, there's lots of complex code in the implementation. But the main API is quite simple.
  216. [21:17:28] <ronny> the api docs dont tell whats main api, and whats "line noise" for the end user
  217. [21:17:55] <radix> ronny: I can agree with that to some extent. I was pretty confused before I found openid.consumer.consumer's docstring.
  218. [21:17:56] <ronny> getting started with it sucks (cause the first docs i see causes mostly wtfs)
  219. [21:18:04] <radix> ronny: But that docstring is quite a good explanation of how to use it.
  220. [21:18:16] <radix> Maybe there is a documentation problem there.
  221. [21:18:17] <kalkin-> radix: consumer
  222. [21:18:24] <ronny> also the developers seem to avoid pep 8 on purpose
  223. [21:18:53] <ronny> (the official python code styleguide)
  224. [21:19:01] <radix> kalkin-: your consumer site doesn't really need to use HTTPS, if you're concerned about protecting credentials, because your consumer site never even sees any credentials.
  225. [21:19:07] <radix> ronny: Oh? How so?
  226. [21:19:46] <ronny> for example method/function-names
  227. [21:19:58] <VxJasonxV> oh god
  228. [21:20:07] <radix> ronny: Maybe you should read PEP 8 again.
  229. [21:20:19] <kalkin-> radix: so if i'am in an untrusted network, where some guys are playing around with tcpdump and wireshark. i can be sure that my opeind password is sended encrypted?
  230. [21:20:39] <ronny> radix: whats so hard to uderstand on method_name instead of MethodName ?
  231. [21:21:04] <radix> ronny: MethodName? that's not used anywhere.
  232. [21:21:24] <radix> kalkin-: your openid password is only sent to your openid provider.
  233. [21:21:30] <radix> kalkin-: Hopefully your provider uses HTTPS.
  234. [21:21:33] <ronny> last time i skimed the api docs it was all over the place
  235. [21:21:39] <radix> ronny: nope. methodName.
  236. [21:21:55] <ronny> hmmk - still not method_name
  237. [21:23:15] <kalkin-> radix: that's exactly what i wanted to know. thank you for the information
  238. [21:23:37] <radix> ronny: yes, it is true that PEP 8 prefers method_name, but it also considers consistency with the surrounding codebase to be the most important thing.
  239. [21:23:42] <radix> ronny: And, well
  240. [21:23:57] <TheSheep> radix: even then the method names should start lowercase :)
  241. [21:24:17] <radix> I don't know if I need to point this out, because I'm not sure how seriously you take this, but complaining about the method naming styles is pretty absurd.
  242. [21:24:21] <radix> TheSheep: huh? they do.
  243. [21:24:25] <TheSheep> radix: and the surrounding codebase for a general python library is mostl likely pep8-compliant code
  244. [21:24:28] <ronny> hmm - whats the task of openid.kvform ?
  245. [21:24:43] * kalkin- (n=kalkin@koln-4db4a56d.pool.einsundeins.de) has left #openid
  246. [21:25:21] <radix> TheSheep: "surrounding", not "calling"
  247. [21:25:24] <radix> anyway.
  248. [21:26:16] <ronny> hmm - every time i take a look at the api docs i thing wtf - why this complicated
  249. [21:27:13] <radix> ok. so at this point I can tell you're just needlessly complaining about things which don't concern your usage of openid.
  250. [21:27:27] <radix> therefore I will get some dinner.
  251. [21:27:31] <ronny> i just want a good lib i can extend in the ways i want
  252. [21:27:39] <radix> ronny: You haven't explained how you want to extend it!
  253. [21:27:44] <radix> ronny: And you haven't pointed out how openid fails to allow you.
  254. [21:27:48] <radix> er, python-openid.
  255. [21:27:56] <radix> ronny: Once you can do that, maybe you will have a position to stand on.
  256. [21:28:02] <ronny> mainly the wtf api
  257. [21:28:11] <radix> right. sure.
  258. [21:28:20] <ronny> everythng is coupled - cant really extract single points of problems
  259. [21:28:53] <radix> ronny: Ok, tell me when your alternative library is done, maybe I'll use it.
  260. [21:29:11] <radix> of course, only if it has more thorough unit tests than python-openid :)
  261. [21:29:28] <ronny> so any hints on simplified specs ?
  262. [21:29:38] <ronny> depends on if it needs as many
  263. [21:29:48] <ronny> if i get it as sismple as i want it might need less
  264. [21:31:17] <ronny> the tricky part will be good decoupling - python-openid doesnt do much of that - requests and responses are directly coupled, other stuff seems to mix in as well
  265. [21:35:02] <ronny> hmm - and it needs wsgi support
  266. [21:35:57] <ronny> so again - is there any simplified spec for reference ?
  267. [22:35:24] * peace-keeper (n=peace-ke@chello084114169104.2.15.vie.surfer.at) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  268. [22:35:30] <keturn> the original OpenID spec was shorter
  269. [22:35:56] <keturn> but did not contain enough detail to completely specify correct behavior in all cases, which is why the 2.x spec is more detailed.
  270. [22:38:53] <keturn> I recommend looking at the module documentation for openid.consumer.consumer or openid.server.server (depending on your interest), both have an overview of what you need to know about the interface. There are pointers there from the openid package docs.
  271. [22:39:15] * TheSheep (n=sheep@atos.wmid.amu.edu.pl) has left #openid
  272. [22:40:23] * forsaken (n=eric@ip70-160-161-77.hr.hr.cox.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  273. [22:43:03] <keturn> I'll agree the examples are getting a bit out of hand. In order to have an example run out of the box, we had to deal with a lot of framework crap. Writing examples for Django instead of BaseHTTPServer makes it so we have to deal with different framework crap, but it's still a little heavy.
  274. [22:43:47] <keturn> (i.e. the fact that we had to write djopenid.util.getBaseURL is something we grumble about a lot.)
  275. [22:46:28] * forsaken (n=eric@ip70-160-161-77.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #openid
  276. [22:54:04] <ronny> keturn: why write for a http server and not for wsgi ?
  277. [22:54:35] <ronny> wsgi is pretty much out of the box working in any remotely sane env for all frameworks
  278. [22:56:28] <ronny> oh noes :( its using one of those "extended" documentation tools wich add loads of unreadability for pydoc
  279. [23:03:11] <ronny> hmm
  280. [23:04:34] <ronny> so all a server has to do is supply a form on a get request, that got a post action wich redirects to the consumer with a propper get message
  281. [23:06:09] <ronny> and all the consumer has to do is redirect to the servers form using the propper get args, and expect it to come back to the auth url ?
  282. [23:06:58] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-d6a92abfffe6ed1f) has joined #openid
  283. [23:13:01] * dynamo (n=dynamo@209-112-185-12-rb1.nwc.dsl.dynamic.acsalaska.net) has joined #openid
  284. [23:13:40] * PibbRelay (n=supybot@nat/janrain/x-d6a92abfffe6ed1f) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  286. [23:16:20] * Freakingme (n=Freaking@ns3.hostdelight.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)

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