IRC Log for #openid on 2008-03-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:21:28] * forsaken_ (n=eric@c-71-62-234-185.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
  2. [00:34:18] <idnar> this whole i-name story seems a bit silly
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  7. [01:09:49] <flaccid_> lol dns is not apache
  8. [01:10:04] <flaccid_> i-names are cool
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  19. [04:08:16] <nulbyte> flaccid_: no, but when you change resolv.conf and apache doesn't pick it up after restart... (at least, after running 'apachectl restart', which one would assume by its name means restart)
  20. [04:11:10] <flaccid_> nulbyte: i've never witnessed that bug, apache has done fine for me with dynamic changes to resolv.conf
  21. [04:11:17] <flaccid_> got a link to the bug?
  22. [04:11:48] <flaccid_> wouldn't mind checking it out. what platform you on?
  23. [04:12:03] <nulbyte> not one that is open. I submitted one but it was promptly closed and marked invalid as a likely issue with nscd rather than httpd (not that I'm using nscd, but the person who closed it made the assumption)
  24. [04:12:18] <flaccid_> thats not nice
  25. [04:12:24] <nulbyte> agreed.
  26. [04:12:37] <flaccid_> apache2 ?
  27. [04:12:38] <nulbyte> I have no problems with other software noticing changes to resolv.conf, save httpd.
  28. [04:12:41] <nulbyte> yes
  29. [04:12:57] <flaccid_> weird for such a bug like that at this stage, what OS ?
  30. [04:13:10] <nulbyte> CentOS 5.
  31. [04:13:26] <flaccid_> hmm, never used it but only heard good stories
  32. [04:13:29] <flaccid_> thats linux yeah ?
  33. [04:13:47] <nulbyte> linux kernel, yes.
  34. [04:13:58] <flaccid_> is that apache 2.0x or 2.1x ?
  35. [04:14:19] <nulbyte> Apache/2.2.3
  36. [04:14:21] <flaccid_> hmm i mean 2.2x
  37. [04:14:34] <flaccid_> hmm thats a loco bug..
  38. [04:15:28] <flaccid_> did you try graceful before restart with apachectl ? would be interesting to see if graceful refreshes the dns lookup as well
  39. [04:16:05] <nulbyte> I did, several times, to no avail.
  40. [04:16:26] <nulbyte> It only picked up the changes to resolv.conf when I did apachectl stop; apachectl start
  41. [04:16:44] <flaccid_> dang to that!
  42. [04:17:13] <nulbyte> That was my main issue. One would think 'apachectl restart' would restart, but apparently not.
  43. [04:17:53] <flaccid_> so im assuming apache2 does its own dns lookups without 'outside' assistance?
  44. [04:20:13] <nulbyte> Not according to the comment posted to the bug I opened. The comment indicated apache used the standard c library to do lookups. But software as big as that probably has a builtin cache somewhere.
  45. [04:21:10] <flaccid_> hmm
  46. [04:21:16] <flaccid_> wonder how its done
  47. [04:21:25] <nulbyte> As do I
  48. [04:21:34] <flaccid_> cool :)
  49. [04:24:49] <flaccid_> surely it wouldn't cache, because of TTL and dynamic dns etc. hmm
  50. [04:25:39] <flaccid_> if it does, wouldn't that make it also a caching name server of some kind
  51. [04:25:52] <flaccid_> which relays only
  52. [04:28:20] <flaccid_> caching the values of resolv.conf in itself kind of goes against unix fundamentals in the filesystem
  53. [04:34:14] <nulbyte> I would think so, too.
  54. [04:34:53] <nulbyte> I'm not a fan of projects that have builtin caching, but given my lack of motivation to modify them myself, I live with it on certain projects...e.g., Asterisk.
  55. [04:35:15] <nulbyte> At least with that, I can tell it to reload and it will...unlike httpd.
  56. [04:35:27] <flaccid_> yeah shouldnt have to touch apache but considering what it is
  57. [04:35:43] <flaccid_> asterisk is a voip thing?
  58. [04:36:22] <nulbyte> Yes.
  59. [04:36:28] <flaccid_> is that SIP?
  60. [04:36:41] <nulbyte> It has a SIP module, yes.
  61. [04:36:58] <flaccid_> ah its pbx plus mods or something
  62. [04:37:58] <nulbyte> The module is part of the software, but you can disable it if you wish. It supports a number of VoIP protocols, including SIP. I prefer IAX2, though. Much more versatile than SIP, despite wider support for SIP.
  63. [04:38:45] <flaccid_> interesting
  64. [04:39:37] <flaccid_> i'll be trying the sip/astrisk under OpenFire soon..
  65. [04:41:09] <nulbyte> Yeah, that sounds pretty neat...especially the XMPP support.
  66. [04:41:49] <flaccid_> its good but the IM gateways seem a bit dodgy
  67. [04:41:58] <flaccid_> like avatars and names not coming through etc. in clients
  68. [04:48:47] <nulbyte> that's pretty typical, though.
  69. [04:49:29] <flaccid_> i don't see why though
  70. [04:49:34] <flaccid_> its just a gateway...
  71. [04:49:39] <flaccid_> why should it change the traffic?
  72. [04:50:02] <nulbyte> the gateway has to support the avatars, etc., as well as the client.
  73. [04:50:16] <nulbyte> depends on the protocol in use, the gateway, the client...there are quite a few failure points.
  74. [04:50:18] <flaccid_> support in what respect? its a gateway, not a server
  75. [04:50:24] <flaccid_> hmm
  76. [04:50:47] <flaccid_> so icq and msn problems likely because they still have to reverse engineer it as opposed to just forwarding traffic??
  77. [04:50:49] <nulbyte> understood, but the gateway must support the full protocol. and most open source doesn't support the full protocol for some IM platforms like Yahoo, AIM, etc.
  78. [04:51:16] <flaccid_> so it doesnt forward traffice, it has to decipher the protocol first?
  79. [04:51:41] <nulbyte> right.
  80. [04:51:47] <flaccid_> that sux
  81. [04:52:03] <flaccid_> means its still dependant on reverse engineered code for the prop./closed protocols
  82. [04:52:06] <nulbyte> the client itself is strictly XMPP. the gateway talks the other protocol for you.
  83. [04:52:31] <nulbyte> not necessarily reveng'd... some protocols have open specs.
  84. [04:52:34] <flaccid_> but my argument is that the gateway forwards traffic untouched, instead of handling it
  85. [04:52:44] <flaccid_> the problems i have are with icq and msn gateways
  86. [04:52:46] <nulbyte> you are talking about XMPP/jabber, right?
  87. [04:53:01] <flaccid_> im talking about the msn and icq and yahoo etc. gateways in openfire
  88. [04:53:09] <flaccid_> through xmpp
  89. [04:53:58] <nulbyte> right. openfire is an XMPP server. the gateway does not deliver traffic untouched. it talks XMPP to the openfire server and OSCAR to the ICQ server... and the MSN gateway speaks whatever MSN's protocol is to the MSN servers... but openfire itself only does XMPP.
  90. [04:55:23] <nulbyte> don't get me wrong. XMPP supports avatars and what not. but whether or not the gateway supports it is up the developer
  91. [04:55:30] <Kaell> i'm not sure i follow how XRIs work... are they all resolved by xri.org?
  92. [04:55:38] <Kaell> is this a single point of failure, bottleneck system?
  93. [04:57:18] <flaccid_> nulbyte: right so it goes xmpp to the server then converted to the other protocol and same for the other way coming back
  94. [04:57:38] <flaccid_> so reliant on the server's conversions
  95. [04:58:24] <nulbyte> well, the gateway translates...but yes.
  96. [04:58:33] <flaccid_> so really nothing i can do about it, even though multi-im clients seem to be more up on the spoken protocols...
  97. [04:59:02] <flaccid_> the gateways need to get up to the level of support that at least the clients have for the other protocols
  98. [05:02:18] <nulbyte> it's a combination of both the gateway, the server, and the client. all three have to support avatars for avatars to work. the gateway has to support retrieving avatars using the other IM platform's protocol, and sending avatars via both protocols... the server and client must support avatars using XMPP.
  99. [05:03:15] <flaccid_> and as far as i know, openfire does so it should be a bug?
  100. [05:03:48] <nulbyte> I can't really say. Like it said, the gateway, server & client must all three support it.
  101. [05:03:58] <flaccid_> i had issues of only ICQ number coming through as well which is pretty not good
  102. [05:04:06] <flaccid_> has to be a bug somewhere
  103. [05:04:32] <flaccid_> i hate supporting non-standards of any kind it can be a real pain
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  211. [23:17:53] * berry (n=berry@535321A1.cable.casema.nl) Quit ()
  212. [23:18:21] * TedThibodeauJr (n=Thud@c-76-119-195-179.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #openid
  213. [23:18:21] <jibot> TedThibodeauJr is a Technology Evangelist from http://www.openlinksw.com/ and a Troublemaker from Way Back
  214. [23:55:33] * xpo (n=xpo@bgl93-2-82-226-41-47.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #openid

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