IRC Log for #openid on 2009-05-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  36. [12:04:34] * denny (i=denny@freenode/staff/denny) has joined #openid
  37. [12:04:37] <denny> heyla
  38. [12:05:13] <denny> I've set up an openid server, but I think I've got it a bit confused :) it works, ish, but it shows up strangely on some sites - blogger, for instance.
  39. [12:05:28] <denny> http://fitwatch.blogspot.com/2009/05/is-this-end-of-forward-intelligence.html
  40. [12:06:01] <flaccid> whats the prob
  41. [12:06:06] <denny> the last comment, by 'id' is me - my openid is 'denny.me', and it shows up that way on some sites but not on others. Is that something I've got wrong, or something they're doing oddly? I'm assuming blogger is more likely to have got it right than me.
  42. [12:06:28] <denny> the link on 'id' goes to my openid server instead of to http://denny.me as well
  43. [12:06:59] <flaccid> right so thats your identifier
  44. [12:07:03] * flaccid goes to look
  45. [12:08:27] <flaccid> denny <link rel="openid.delegate" href="http://denny.me/id/" /> should be <link rel="openid.delegate" href="http://denny.me/" /> if http://denny.me/id/ is your OP's endpoint
  46. [12:09:37] <denny> sorry, I don't really know what the right terminology for anything is - I mostly followed the howto here: http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2007/01/03/OpenID-for-non-SuperUsers
  47. [12:09:46] * denny goes to edit that link
  48. [12:10:03] <flaccid> you also have those elements in the endpoint's meta tags
  49. [12:10:30] <denny> I do, or I should? Or I do and I shouldn't? :)
  50. [12:11:31] <flaccid> the endpoint doesn't need any link elements
  51. [12:11:38] <flaccid> sorry i meant link before not meta..
  52. [12:13:15] <denny> 'idp_url' => 'http://denny.me/id/',
  53. [12:13:24] <denny> should that be without the /id/ as well?
  54. [12:13:31] <denny> that's in the phpMyID stuff
  55. [12:13:34] <flaccid> what is reporting that ?
  56. [12:13:36] <flaccid> ah
  57. [12:14:31] <flaccid> thats old and like openid 1
  58. [12:14:45] <denny> I'm open to being told how to do it properly :)
  59. [12:14:56] <denny> bonus points if I can use something written in Perl instead of PHP, might make it easier to follow
  60. [12:15:17] * abelajouza (n=abelajou@213.217.101.98) has joined #openid
  61. [12:15:45] * abelajouza is now known as akram__
  62. [12:15:53] <flaccid> idp_url is your openid identity in phpMyID
  63. [12:16:11] <flaccid> so as advised before it should be http://denny.me/
  64. [12:16:22] * akram__ (n=abelajou@213.217.101.98) Quit (Client Quit)
  65. [12:16:36] <flaccid> if you really want to make your own OP then perhaps the janrain python libs
  66. [12:16:54] * akram__ (n=abelajou@213.217.101.98) has joined #openid
  67. [12:17:04] <denny> http://www.openidenabled.com/resources/openid-test/checkup fails when I remove 'id' from idp_url
  68. [12:17:18] <flaccid> there is also http://code.google.com/p/openid4perl/ . you should go for better libs that do at least openid 2
  69. [12:17:47] <flaccid> denny yes i remember playing with what you are using it had bugs
  70. [12:18:12] <denny> ah :)
  71. [12:18:14] <flaccid> but you need to clear the session/cache after changing the http://denny.me/id/ to http://denny.me/
  72. [12:18:26] <denny> oh, okay
  73. [12:19:54] <akram__> I'm trying to make some modifications to the Janrain PHP library but I#m having some problems can you please helpme?
  74. [12:20:29] <flaccid> um i'll try but im not sure why you are modifying them
  75. [12:20:50] <akram__> I don't want to use Pear so I want to write my own DB Class
  76. [12:21:31] <flaccid> ah rightio. i'm just not somewhere where i can look at the code its a bit late too but i see what you mean
  77. [12:22:28] <akram__> ??
  78. [12:22:57] <flaccid> i cbf basicall
  79. [12:22:59] <flaccid> y
  80. [12:23:01] <akram__> what do think: which modifications should i make?
  81. [12:23:17] <flaccid> this is not ##php
  82. [12:24:17] <akram__> i know I'm not asking you to help me write anything
  83. [12:24:33] <akram__> lets assume I created y class called db.php
  84. [12:24:40] <akram__> and in fact I did
  85. [12:25:30] <akram__> it must extends Auth_OpenID_DatabaseConnection
  86. [12:25:32] <akram__> right ?
  87. [12:28:22] <flaccid> hmm doesn't look high enough. that seems to use pear
  88. [12:28:26] <flaccid> its high level
  89. [12:28:33] <denny> <p>This is an OpenID server endpoint. For more information, see http://openid.net/<br/>Server: <b>http://denny.me/</b><br/>Realm: <b>denny.me</b><br/><a href="http://denny.me/?openid.mode=login">Login</a></p>
  90. [12:28:58] <denny> that login URL is wrong once I set idp_url to not have the /id/ on the end - the login URL should have /id/ in it. Any idea, or is this just broken in general?
  91. [12:30:05] <flaccid> denny i would say broken. i ditched that one quite early on myself
  92. [12:30:09] <denny> rats.
  93. [12:30:19] <denny> okay, thanks - i'll check out the perl lib you linked
  94. [12:30:36] <flaccid> k
  95. [12:30:49] <akram__> so where shuold I start making changes?
  96. [12:31:39] <flaccid> akram__ no idea personally unless i look at the code which atm its too late at night sorry
  97. [12:31:44] <flaccid> someone else might help
  98. [12:32:01] <akram__> ty anyway flaccid
  99. [12:32:15] <flaccid> hey np good luck anyway
  100. [12:33:57] <akram__> is there anybody who can help me ?
  101. [12:35:26] <flaccid> keturn you alive :o
  102. [13:02:22] * daleolds (n=daleolds@206.81.133.96) has joined #openid
  103. [13:11:25] <denny> If I comment somewhere, I want it to say 'denny.me' and link to http://denny.me - is that supposed to be possible with delegation? When I set it up it kept posting with links to myopenid.net or wherever it was I have an account
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  110. [13:49:27] <abelajouza> hi everybody I need some help I'm trying to modify JanRain PHP Library but no success :((
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  116. [14:50:53] <abelajouza> I tried to modify JanRain's PHP library so that it works without PEAR. Now I'm getting the error "Bad Signatur". Where should I start to look for?
  117. [14:57:00] * jochen (n=jochen@91.177.176.29) has joined #openid
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  121. [16:23:20] <keturn> PHP is not my strong suit, but I'm pretty sure others have walked this road before you. I'd google around some more for implementations of Auth_OpenID_OpenIDStore.
  122. [16:24:00] <keturn> alternately you can try using FileStore for a while and see if that works for you. it may not work well in all environments (e.g. clusters on NFS or something), but it might be appropriate
  123. [16:25:35] * keturn runs away again
  124. [16:27:22] <abelajouza> I'm pretty sure the problem is in my implementation cause I kept the PEAR version and it still working.
  125. [16:27:55] <abelajouza> does the server get the signatur from the secret colun of the oid_associations?
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  143. [21:07:39] * fizk_ (n=yonas@CPE001a706e7734-CM00111ade9e1c.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #openid
  144. [21:07:44] <fizk_> hey guys
  145. [21:08:11] <fizk_> is there anyway to find out the actual user id that someone signed in with when using OpenID?
  146. [21:09:05] <fizk_> I'd like to know that the user is signed in example.com as alice@example.com
  147. [21:13:51] * jfluhmann_ (n=jfluhman@72.21.107.147) Quit ("Leaving")
  148. [21:13:59] <fizk_> hello?
  149. [21:22:56] <fizk_> .
  150. [21:23:01] <fizk_> .
  151. [21:23:07] <fizk_> .
  152. [21:23:12] <fizk_> .
  153. [21:23:16] <fizk_> .
  154. [21:23:55] <fizk_> is this the official channel...................
  155. [21:24:24] <fizk_> .
  156. [21:24:24] <fizk_> .
  157. [21:24:25] <fizk_> .
  158. [21:24:25] <fizk_> .
  159. [21:24:26] <fizk_> .
  160. [21:24:26] <fizk_> .
  161. [21:24:26] <fizk_> .
  162. [21:24:28] <fizk_> .
  163. [21:24:29] <singpolyma> Yes, this is the official channel
  164. [21:24:30] <fizk_> .
  165. [21:24:32] <fizk_> .
  166. [21:24:34] <fizk_> .
  167. [21:24:35] <singpolyma> That doesn't mean it's active
  168. [21:24:36] <fizk_> .
  169. [21:24:38] <fizk_> .
  170. [21:24:40] <singpolyma> all the time anyway
  171. [21:24:40] <fizk_> .
  172. [21:24:44] <fizk_> thanks singpolyma
  173. [21:24:57] <fizk_> it's practically dead
  174. [21:24:59] <singpolyma> And what do you mean "the actual user id"
  175. [21:25:08] <singpolyma> you mean the one that is being used internally by the OP?
  176. [21:25:23] <fizk_> I posted a serious question about enabling OpenID for IRC and only two ppl responded on the General mailing list
  177. [21:25:32] <fizk_> yea
  178. [21:25:56] <fizk_> can the relay part know that I signed in as bob@example.com
  179. [21:26:04] <singpolyma> There are no guarentees that OPs even have an internal user ID for the user (there are OPs where this is not the case)
  180. [21:26:08] <fizk_> or simple, 'bob'
  181. [21:26:17] <singpolyma> So no, you can't get it, because there may not even be one
  182. [21:26:47] <singpolyma> If you want to get the email address back from the OP you can try sreg and AX, but the OP in not guarenteed to respond
  183. [21:27:03] <singpolyma> So you have to be prepared to not get it, even if you ask
  184. [21:27:58] <fizk_> hmm
  185. [21:29:02] <fizk_> it should be a part of the OpenID spec
  186. [21:29:17] <fizk_> user logs in as 'bob', then RP can know that it was 'bob'
  187. [21:29:22] <singpolyma> The only thing OpenID guarentees is that the OP will verify the idetity URI of the user
  188. [21:29:46] <singpolyma> AX is in the spec, and SReg is there for historical reasons, but there are very good reasons not to require OPs to support them
  189. [21:30:19] <fizk_> such as?
  190. [21:30:48] <singpolyma> As I've mentioned, there are OPs where users are not required to log in, or do not have usernames of any kind, so you can't require that it be returned. There are OPs that store no data at all about their users, or that for privacy reasons don't want to give it out (Yahoo is the latter)
  191. [21:31:22] <singpolyma> Also, simplicity, it is useful to be able to support only the core of OpenID without having to have the baggage of all the other potential features hanging around if you don't want
  192. [21:32:15] <singpolyma> So, you can guarentee URI, and other things you can ask for and maybe get them depending on the OP and the user's settings :)
  193. [21:33:17] <fizk_> what OPs don't have usernames tho?
  194. [21:33:27] <fizk_> i don't know of any
  195. [21:34:01] <fizk_> and exposing your username isn't a privacy threat
  196. [21:34:17] <fizk_> it's just your username .. o_O
  197. [21:35:09] <singpolyma> That's not really your decision, if Yahoo thinks it's a privacy problem, then to them it is
  198. [21:35:32] <singpolyma> And there is an anonymous OP where there are no accounts or logins of any kind, as the classic example of one without usernames
  199. [21:36:03] <singpolyma> What do you need the username for?
  200. [21:36:58] <fizk_> I'm modifying my SMTP server to accept OpenID logins
  201. [21:37:44] <singpolyma> ok... so you need a username internally and would like a hint from the OP? Definitely use SReg (and probably AX as well, if you want to get data from the Google OP)
  202. [21:38:16] <singpolyma> ask for nickname and email and if there's no nickname you can guess from email and if there's neither, well you have to ask the user I guess :)
  203. [21:38:22] <fizk_> if the header says "From: bob@example.com" I want to get OpenID proof of that
  204. [21:38:40] <singpolyma> "proof"?
  205. [21:39:03] <fizk_> er, brb phone :|
  206. [21:39:24] <singpolyma> You can't initiate an OpenID flow for bob on you receiving an email from him... well, you could, but I'm not sure how it'd work
  207. [21:51:30] <jochen> if I want to implement checkid_immediate, do I just check that the user is logged in and that the user previously enabled openid access for the openid.trust_root?
  208. [21:52:40] <fizk_> back
  209. [21:53:49] <singpolyma> jochen: I'm no checkid_immediate expert, but that seems reasonable
  210. [21:54:05] <jochen> ok, cool :)
  211. [21:55:39] <fizk_> singpolyma: when I get bob@example.com, I create a OpenID Auth Request, give it Bob, he follows the redirect, gives me the OpenID Auth Response, etc
  212. [21:55:46] <fizk_> I want to use OpenID + OAuth tho
  213. [21:56:19] <fizk_> there's a spec on how OpenID + OAuth works
  214. [21:56:22] <singpolyma> fizk_: How are you constructing the OpenID request? ie, what are you using to begin discovery?
  215. [21:56:48] <fizk_> example.com?
  216. [21:57:02] <fizk_> I'm not sure how the discovery works yet
  217. [21:57:14] <singpolyma> So, you're doing directed identity against the HTTP URI for the host?
  218. [21:57:21] <fizk_> but I'm not doing anything special
  219. [21:57:48] <fizk_> i think so...
  220. [21:58:12] <fizk_> the OpenID + OAuth spec said something like, WWW-Authenticate header will let you know that they support OAuth
  221. [21:58:13] <singpolyma> And you want to somehow use the response to see if the user that auth'd matches the email address
  222. [21:58:24] <fizk_> then you follow the OAuth procedure
  223. [21:58:34] <singpolyma> fizk_: Not sure on the experimental openid+oauth stuff, but that sounds reasonable
  224. [21:59:49] <fizk_> yup
  225. [22:01:08] <singpolyma> So, you can't do that. The only way that would work is if the provider was providing http://bob@example.com/ as the OpenID URI, in which case you could just use that directly and it would work with just normal OpenId
  226. [22:01:16] <fizk_> it's gonna be sweet, all my clients will know that their is coming from the user in the "From: " header
  227. [22:01:33] <singpolyma> fizk
  228. [22:01:43] <singpolyma> isn't that what signing is for? :P
  229. [22:02:56] <fizk_> not enough people sign their mail...this solution also is part of my spam prevention strategy
  230. [22:05:58] * quine- (i=quine@146-115-21-243.ma.subnet.cable.rcn.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  232. [22:07:11] <singpolyma> So you figure more email providers are OP than people who sign their mail? Fair enough, it's an interesting hack
  233. [22:09:04] <fizk_> yea
  234. [22:09:16] <singpolyma> You'll basically have to figure it out on a provider-by-provider basis. I think Gmail is really the only one you can do anything interesting with just now
  235. [22:09:18] <fizk_> and i'd check the account before receiving data
  236. [22:09:26] <fizk_> so I'm saving bandwidth and costs
  237. [22:11:17] * Politoed (i=hpeixoto@a81-84-11-183.cpe.netcabo.pt) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  238. [22:14:17] <fizk_> I was very excited about OpenID when I first started looking at it
  239. [22:14:26] <fizk_> but the more I read the specs and talk with people
  240. [22:15:25] <fizk_> in my opinion, it's lacking the real value
  241. [22:16:25] <singpolyma> Well, keep in mind that you want to use it to power a hack that has very little to do with what it was designed for :)
  242. [22:16:29] <fizk_> which is, I have an account, 'bob' at example.com, and I should be able to login as bob@example.com at any OpenID enabled site, and no one else can prose as bob@example.com
  243. [22:18:23] <fizk_> that is really what OpenID should be
  244. [22:18:29] <singpolyma> Well, more specifically, you want to use it for email verification, which is a bit out of scope for user centric web identity
  245. [22:18:40] <singpolyma> not that it's not an interesting application of it
  246. [22:18:53] <fizk_> it's not out of scope tho
  247. [22:19:39] <fizk_> my clients would not be getting mail from someone claiming to be someone@example.com,
  248. [22:19:51] <fizk_> clients would be getting mail from a registered OpenID account
  249. [22:20:15] <fizk_> OpenID2email
  250. [22:21:56] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@173-11-94-130-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  251. [22:22:04] * singpolyma (n=singpoly@173-11-94-130-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) has joined #openid
  252. [22:22:09] <fizk_> wb
  253. [22:22:57] <singpolyma> :), sorry, strange computer freeze up for no reason... a bit perturbing
  254. [22:22:59] <fizk_> this way, clients can whitelist john@myspace.com, fizk@yahoo.com, singpolyma@gmail.com
  255. [22:23:43] <singpolyma> I know what you want to do. Unless OPs start supporting http://user@host/ identifiers or webfinger en-masse, it won't be easy though
  256. [22:25:13] <fizk_> i heard of webfinger once, what is it?
  257. [22:26:27] <singpolyma> It's a proposal to use LRDD to discover XRD documents based on user@host-style identifiers. This would, if well supported, allow OpenID discovery (among other things) for user@host identifiers even if the OP didn't provide http://user@host/ identifiers directly
  258. [22:26:43] <singpolyma> Of course, it's dependent on LRDD and XRD, which aren't done or deployed at all yet
  259. [22:28:36] <fizk_> is webfinger a new idea?
  260. [22:29:33] <singpolyma> Relatively new, yes, it's based on work that's been around for awhile, but no one ever really finalised
  261. [22:29:51] <singpolyma> Obviously the idea of using LRDD/XRD is new, since those are now
  262. [22:29:53] <singpolyma> new**
  263. [22:33:22] <fizk_> interesting
  264. [22:37:30] <fizk_> thanks for your help singpolyma! bbl, eating dinner
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  269. [23:13:34] * jochen (n=jochen@91.177.176.29) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  270. [23:24:14] * daleolds (n=daleolds@c-76-27-115-77.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has left #openid
  271. [23:36:45] * daedeloth (n=daedelot@ip-81-11-178-81.dsl.scarlet.be) has joined #openid

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