IRC Log for #openid on 2009-12-07

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  60. [22:06:16] * prusnak (n=stick@opensuse/member/prusnak) has joined #openid
  61. [22:06:26] <prusnak> hi!
  62. [22:06:33] <prusnak> can someone help me to debug my openid provider ?
  63. [22:10:59] <yangman> I can give you a quick look if it's simple
  64. [22:13:11] <flaccid> always just ask, it would of saved 2 lines of verbosity :)
  65. [22:14:09] <karstensrage> well 'hi!' is just a greeting
  66. [22:14:21] <karstensrage> but Ill give you one line of verbosity :)
  67. [22:14:30] <flaccid> prusnak: can someone help me to debug my openid provider ?
  68. [22:14:43] <flaccid> i was referring to the question to ask a question
  69. [22:15:13] * MacTed (n=Thud@63.119.36.36) Quit ()
  70. [22:15:38] <prusnak> I use wordpress+openid plugin
  71. [22:15:58] <prusnak> and I switched from apache to lighttpd and I'm sure I screwed lighttpd rewrite rulres
  72. [22:16:00] <prusnak> rules
  73. [22:16:05] <prusnak> but i'm not sure which one is failing
  74. [22:16:18] <flaccid> what does rewrite have to do with openid ?
  75. [22:16:38] <prusnak> just look at - http://www.openidenabled.com/resources/openid-test/checkup/start?openid_url=http://stick.gk2.sk/
  76. [22:16:42] <flaccid> maybe you are after #lighttpd
  77. [22:17:45] <flaccid> association is returning a 404
  78. [22:18:15] <prusnak> what's the association url ?
  79. [22:19:50] * daedeloth (n=daedelot@ip-83-134-155-205.dsl.scarlet.be) Quit ("Ex-Chat")
  80. [22:21:03] <flaccid> i'lll look in a few mins when i have a chance if nobody else helps
  81. [22:21:14] <prusnak> thanks
  82. [22:35:54] * Blake__ (i=44e01686@gateway/web/freenode/x-xymkypmcfqrikmhj) has joined #openid
  83. [22:36:11] <Blake__> Hello all, anyone here?
  84. [22:36:35] * flaccid looks at the channel list
  85. [22:36:52] <yangman> flaccid: ssssh. you're exposing us all ;)
  86. [22:37:15] <Blake__> @yangman, check out beglspk.blogspot.com
  87. [22:37:19] <flaccid> hehe
  88. [22:37:56] <Blake__> I'm looking for feedback
  89. [22:38:39] <Blake__> I'm young, 23, not an irc regular
  90. [22:39:01] <flaccid> please provide a complete url next time
  91. [22:39:07] <Blake__> sorry.
  92. [22:39:14] <Blake__> http://beglspk.blogspot.com
  93. [22:39:54] <flaccid> ok feedback. its a website on blogspot, it loads, not sure what else to say :)
  94. [22:40:23] <Blake__> just looking for feedback on the idea, i know you guys are working towards the same goal.
  95. [22:41:00] <Blake__> also looking for compassion from my fellow man, not snarkiness
  96. [22:41:37] <Blake__> dont be evil
  97. [22:41:41] <flaccid> oh sorry, i think you are in the wrong channel, this is #openid
  98. [22:41:54] <Blake__> lol, i think im in the right spot
  99. [22:42:23] <Blake__> i know im in the right spot.
  100. [22:42:40] <flaccid> bagel speak != openid
  101. [22:42:43] <yangman> I'm not sure what you want feedback on
  102. [22:42:49] <yangman> all I see is a blogspot page
  103. [22:42:58] <flaccid> maybe you are after ##web or something
  104. [22:43:38] <Blake__> I'm not saying that they are equal, just thought I may meet some similar people here who would be interested in collaborating.
  105. [22:44:08] <flaccid> oh, sorry its not on topic, but good luck then
  106. [22:44:53] <yangman> oh, you wanted feedback on the first post
  107. [22:45:07] <Blake__> no, the last two I think are the most important.
  108. [22:45:15] <Blake__> in chronological order.
  109. [22:45:23] <Blake__> so the first two from the top of the page.
  110. [22:45:50] <yangman> wait, SS#? honestly?
  111. [22:46:04] <Blake__> idk, a way to verifiy a person is real.
  112. [22:46:13] <yangman> first flaw: you're onlythinking about the US
  113. [22:46:18] <Blake__> so they can not have multiple accounts
  114. [22:46:19] <yangman> second flaw: see flaw #1
  115. [22:46:31] <Blake__> i appreciate the feedback
  116. [22:46:35] <Blake__> thank you yangman
  117. [22:46:54] <yangman> it's an idea that people inevitably re-hash every few months
  118. [22:47:07] <Blake__> So how can I verify a person is real without the equivalent of a credit check?
  119. [22:47:11] <yangman> this has happened for probably as long as the internet existed in its current form
  120. [22:47:16] <flaccid> whats SS? and i live in australia
  121. [22:47:26] <yangman> the problem isn't technological, it's political and social
  122. [22:47:34] <Blake__> you must have a unique identifier from your governent...
  123. [22:47:52] <flaccid> there is no way to verify 'a person is real' unless you poke them with a stick
  124. [22:47:52] <Blake__> haha
  125. [22:47:52] <Blake__> i like that
  126. [22:47:57] <yangman> there's no such thing as a completely unique and verifiable analogue for a person's identity
  127. [22:48:06] <flaccid> well its pretty much true, its just like yangman said, its about what an authoritive source is
  128. [22:48:36] <Blake__> Can't the social overcome the political?
  129. [22:48:54] <Blake__> this is a voluntary system, im trying to create.
  130. [22:49:04] <flaccid> a credit check will not verify anything identification wise. if there is no record under this person's metadata, a new credit report is made. credit checks have nothing to do with auth
  131. [22:49:15] <yangman> whenever you talk about externally verified identity, you're talking about a chain of trust
  132. [22:49:22] <flaccid> social, you mean public, we all know what the public gets up to
  133. [22:49:27] <Blake__> haha
  134. [22:49:35] <yangman> generally, there's an implicit trust for your own regional government
  135. [22:49:41] <yangman> however, you can't always extend this
  136. [22:49:58] <Blake__> trust is everything
  137. [22:49:59] <yangman> for example, I don't trust SS# and names as given out by the state and federal governments
  138. [22:50:00] <flaccid> and a lot of countries will not provide a way to verify an ID other than a drivers license, passport etc.
  139. [22:50:19] <flaccid> i don't trust the secret service's phone number either
  140. [22:50:20] <yangman> there are multiple recorded cases of the same SS# being given to multiple actual persons during the same time period
  141. [22:50:39] <Blake__> what about bioinformatics?
  142. [22:50:58] <yangman> plastic surgery
  143. [22:51:01] <Blake__> haha
  144. [22:51:05] <yangman> or, injury
  145. [22:51:05] <Blake__> jeez wow
  146. [22:51:14] <yangman> there are TONS of corner cases
  147. [22:51:18] <Blake__> so dna is all there is?
  148. [22:51:23] <flaccid> yes.
  149. [22:51:25] <yangman> nope. mutation
  150. [22:51:29] <Blake__> omg
  151. [22:51:35] <Blake__> i like this channel
  152. [22:51:42] <yangman> there are recorded cases of spontaneous blood type change as well
  153. [22:51:51] <flaccid> well no, mutation is ok, because you can't mutate to a specific DNA!
  154. [22:51:57] <flaccid> if you could, we'd all be screwed
  155. [22:51:58] <yangman> heh
  156. [22:52:25] <Blake__> there must be an answer
  157. [22:52:32] <yangman> nope
  158. [22:52:40] <flaccid> yes, there answer is no
  159. [22:52:41] <yangman> not everything has an answer ;)
  160. [22:52:46] <flaccid> or dns is the closest
  161. [22:52:50] <Blake__> maybe no answer, but a solution.
  162. [22:53:01] <yangman> it's always a compromise
  163. [22:53:05] <flaccid> since when has humans been able to solve problems
  164. [22:53:10] <Blake__> haha
  165. [22:54:11] <yangman> also, even names don't always cleanly map
  166. [22:54:55] <yangman> there's a well known article on, iirc, Malasian names that shows how it doesn't fit into the western notion of given, middle, surname system
  167. [22:55:05] <flaccid> identity theft is incredibly easy, except doing passports, sometimes
  168. [22:55:33] <flaccid> yeah malayalam and other utf based charsets don't fit into ascii/english
  169. [22:56:01] <Blake__> So you are all paranoid to give your identity to a third party, what are you doing here then?
  170. [22:56:10] <yangman> the key part of any "globally unique" identification system is formally figuring out what is the fundamental trust guarantee the system gives
  171. [22:56:16] <Blake__> Isn't a third party the only way to secure our identities?
  172. [22:56:17] <yangman> and what set of assumptions are made
  173. [22:56:43] * ryanmerket (n=rmerket@out1-1601fw.corp.tfbnw.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  174. [22:57:07] <yangman> so, to get back on topic, for OpenID, there's the assumption of a non-compromized HTTP network, with non-malicious DNS
  175. [22:57:27] <yangman> and the gurantee of the protocol is "ownership of content at specified URL"
  176. [22:57:32] <flaccid> Blake__: sorry, where did i 'give my identity' away ?
  177. [22:57:39] <Blake__> thank you, do you have a link to the paper which details that system yangman?
  178. [22:58:13] <Blake__> you never give it away
  179. [22:58:13] <Blake__> you should always own it.
  180. [22:58:13] <flaccid> Blake__: its in the spec
  181. [22:58:29] <flaccid> and if you google there is numerous articles on workflow
  182. [22:58:37] <Blake__> thanks flaccid.
  183. [22:58:50] <yangman> if you're doing college, take a course of cryptography
  184. [22:58:58] <yangman> er, CS in college, that is
  185. [22:59:27] <flaccid> crypto is crazy
  186. [22:59:30] <yangman> all this trust stuff comes up in crypto
  187. [22:59:44] <yangman> yeah, the math is pretty crazy
  188. [22:59:48] <Blake__> ive learned rsa, thats about it. im out of school right now. I'm looking to get back in.
  189. [22:59:59] <yangman> I'm glad I got the "easy" version from distributed systems, and didn't need to take it formally :p
  190. [23:00:03] <Blake__> Major was CS, minor was econ.
  191. [23:00:36] <yangman> rsa is just a particular system. you only got the HOW, not WHY or WHAT
  192. [23:00:44] <Blake__> Thanks for thee feedback, it was greatly appreciated.
  193. [23:01:03] <Blake__> What is the what?
  194. [23:01:20] <Blake__> what way to do it?
  195. [23:01:32] <yangman> "what are the formal results of a crypo system"
  196. [23:01:49] <Blake__> thanks.
  197. [23:02:04] <yangman> there is a proof system dedicated for this
  198. [23:02:13] <Blake__> its name?
  199. [23:02:18] <yangman> no clue :p
  200. [23:02:23] <Blake__> lol
  201. [23:02:25] <Blake__> sry
  202. [23:02:30] <yangman> not sure if there's a formal name
  203. [23:02:57] <yangman> read a paper on public key cryptography, or kerberos
  204. [23:03:04] <Blake__> I will leave you with this, humans can solve problems. one step at a time.
  205. [23:03:17] <Blake__> haven't you proven that already?
  206. [23:03:25] <yangman> proven what now?
  207. [23:03:46] <Blake__> that you can solve real problems...
  208. [23:04:02] <yangman> "real problems"?
  209. [23:04:15] <Blake__> its like talking to a wall...i like it.
  210. [23:06:10] <Blake__> Yang Zhao?
  211. [23:06:29] <yangman> that's me
  212. [23:06:41] <Blake__> nice to meet you.
  213. [23:06:44] <yangman> well, one of the many identifications of me ;)
  214. [23:07:00] <Blake__> I'm Blake J Gideon
  215. [23:11:28] * Blake__ (i=44e01686@gateway/web/freenode/x-xymkypmcfqrikmhj) Quit ("Page closed")
  216. [23:43:52] * ryanmerket (n=rmerket@out1-1601fw.corp.tfbnw.net) has joined #openid

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