IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  3. [00:21:03] <tantek> Kevin that URL says nothing about the rel attribute
  4. [00:21:09] <tantek> b.k. asked:
  5. [00:21:43] <tantek> "Does anyone know where LiveJournal details the extent of their support for the rel attribute?"
  6. [00:23:37] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4249 * Tantek * (+175) added LJ
  7. [00:24:15] <tantek> that's about as much as I found. if anyone finds anything else, please add it to the wiki
  8. [00:24:18] <tantek> thanks1
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  12. [00:34:17] <bkdelong> Thanks, Tantek. The implementation does seem vague. I'm going to look through and possibly post in LJ-Dev for further details.
  13. [00:34:48] <bkdelong> And the guy who added LJFind is apparently launching a microformat-enabled LJ full text search
  14. [00:39:58] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4250 * Tantek * (+165) added code4lib
  15. [00:40:44] <bkdelong> Have we added a means of adding hReview markup to Amazon.com review entrires? I thought I saw something about that but can't find it.
  16. [00:43:32] <kingryan_> bkdelong, not that I know of
  17. [00:44:03] <bkdelong> ah ok.
  18. [00:45:21] * kingryan (n=kingryan@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  19. [00:45:29] <bkdelong> Hey - is it possible to create a microformatlet? That is, instead of reference a profile in the HEAD element, reference it inline a document? That would make it easier to alert parsers to microformat data in "third party sites" that users have limited control of.....like Amazon.com
  20. [00:45:37] * kingryan_ is now known as kingryan
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  22. [00:46:07] <kingryan> bkdelong, not currently, but there's been discussion
  23. [00:46:22] <bkdelong> Anything on the wiki about it yet?
  24. [00:46:25] <kingryan> here, I think: http://microformats.org/wiki/xmdp-issues
  25. [00:46:33] <bkdelong> k
  26. [00:47:15] <tantek_> actually that's not even an issue
  27. [00:47:22] <tantek_> what b.k. is talking about is already part of XMDP
  28. [00:47:31] <tantek_> b.k. check it: http://gmpg.org/xmdp/
  29. [00:47:44] <bkdelong> ah cool.
  30. [00:48:00] <bkdelong> So I can microformat my Amazon reviews. Cool
  31. [00:48:36] * tara (n=tara@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  32. [00:49:21] * tantek (n=tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  33. [00:49:31] <bkdelong> hrm...wait. So where does it tell me where to reference a profile inline in a document? Looks like I still have to use the HEAD element. Would I have to do a Definition List for every inline use of a Microformat?
  34. [00:50:23] <kingryan> no
  35. [00:50:32] <tantek_> oh, sorry i missed that key word *inline*
  36. [00:50:36] <tantek_> right
  37. [00:50:38] <tantek_> being looked into
  38. [00:50:40] <bkdelong> ;)
  39. [00:50:41] <kingryan> try this: http://microformats.org/wiki/xmdp-brainstorming
  40. [00:50:45] <kingryan> for discussion
  41. [00:50:47] <tantek_> current favorite candidate is
  42. [00:51:25] <tantek_> This document uses the <a href="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11" rel="profile">XFN profile</a>
  43. [00:52:24] <bkdelong> actually, I don't think I can even markup my Amazon review anyway. It would get stripped out. Blast....they would have to do it.
  44. [00:52:35] <bkdelong> Certainly would give us massive adoption of hReview though :)
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  55. [01:54:39] <tantek> where r u ryan?
  56. [01:54:44] <tantek> ok, we're off to 21A
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  66. [02:39:27] <tantek> welcome sexygirl153 and cee-dub!
  67. [02:39:58] <bkdelong> Is there another mashpit I'm missing? ;)
  68. [02:40:23] <tantek> media-info / fotonotes brainstorming dinner etc.
  69. [02:40:31] <bkdelong> cool
  70. [02:40:53] <bkdelong> Is Niall there? I'm curious what this wordpress.root thing is
  71. [02:41:32] <tantek> Niall is at another dinner
  72. [02:41:38] <tantek> what wordpress.root thing?
  73. [02:41:53] <bkdelong> hang on....lemme find the reference
  74. [02:42:40] <bkdelong> http://scripting.wordpress.com/2006/01/19/niall-and-i-are-heading-over-to-sixapart-2/
  75. [02:45:38] <tantek> btw, media-info: http://microformats.org/wiki/media-info-examples
  76. [02:46:09] <bkdelong> Another offtopic bit - do we have any sort of wishlist microformat?
  77. [02:46:18] <bkdelong> rather an idea or brainstorm for one?
  78. [02:46:29] <tantek> wishlist = XOXO list of wish items
  79. [02:46:37] <bkdelong> cool
  80. [02:46:39] <tantek> now, wish item is probably very similar to a listing
  81. [02:46:53] <tantek> see http://microformats.org/wiki/listing-examples etc.
  82. [02:47:33] <tantek> bk. that wp.r thing sounds odd
  83. [02:47:53] <bkdelong> Was reading a Danny Ayers post...which is where the wishlist thing came from: http://dannyayers.com/archives/2006/01/19/personal-attention-aggregator-please/
  84. [02:48:07] <bkdelong> Yeah, when I saw Wordpress working in MT, that piqued my interest.
  85. [02:48:31] <tantek> i'm not even sure what that means
  86. [02:48:38] <tantek> a wish list item is basically a want ad
  87. [02:51:06] <bkdelong> (Sorry for the disjointed language...when I'm brainstorming I cant yet articulate what's going on in my head. Hence my desire for subvocal-recognition. ;) )
  88. [02:52:21] <tantek> is there any semantic difference between putting something on a public wishlist and posting a want ad for something for free?
  89. [02:52:59] <bkdelong> good question....
  90. [02:53:41] <bkdelong> Not really except that want ads are usually single items and wishlists are an aggregate.
  91. [02:55:11] <bkdelong> wishlists are often contextulized by gift-giving events - baby shower, wedding shower, christmas/kwanzaa/hanukkah , birthdays, anniversaries, valentine's day
  92. [02:56:06] <bkdelong> and with a wishlist, you're more apt to prioritize your level of interest in each item, (at least....thanks to Amazon)
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  95. [03:04:57] <tantek> actually, that prioritization is per item
  96. [03:05:01] <tantek> not relative between items
  97. [03:05:09] <tantek> so ok, that's a good distinction
  98. [03:05:23] <tantek> wish list item = want ad + level-of-interest
  99. [03:05:30] <tantek> and the event point is good also
  100. [03:05:31] <tantek> so
  101. [03:05:53] <tantek> wish list = optional-related-event + XOXO list of wish list items
  102. [03:06:17] <tantek> ok, this is definitely different/interesting enough to deserve capturing on a wiki page or two
  103. [03:06:21] <tantek> want to start bk?
  104. [03:06:40] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/wish-list-examples
  105. [03:06:45] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/wish-list-item-examples
  106. [03:06:55] * sexygirl153 (n=cal@71.141.26.195) Quit ()
  107. [03:07:11] <tantek> and note that a wish-list-item is very much like a want ad *listing* (link to listing-examples)
  108. [03:13:06] * valmont_ (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) Quit (No route to host)
  109. [03:20:37] * tara (n=tara@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  110. [03:22:32] <tara> well...since we are trying to meet as a significantly larger group than I anticipated in a significantly louder space than I anticipated, we'll be partially participating in this meeting (microformats meets the jpg) in IRC...;)
  111. [03:26:24] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  112. [03:34:30] * Enric (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  113. [03:34:44] <tara> hi enric
  114. [03:34:53] <Enric> Hey babe!
  115. [03:34:53] <tara> hey tantek
  116. [03:35:03] <tantek> hey tara :p
  117. [03:35:14] <Enric> 8)
  118. [03:35:25] <tantek> (tara is sitting nearly across from me for those in the ether)
  119. [03:35:31] <tara> lol
  120. [03:35:35] <Enric> so we can say things here we wouldn't in person ;)
  121. [03:35:39] <tara> we're being san fransocial
  122. [03:35:45] <tara> you two are hawt
  123. [03:36:06] <tantek> this is what happens when you meet in person and it is too loud to talk in person
  124. [03:36:09] <tantek> you go to irc
  125. [03:36:43] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  126. [03:37:10] <tara> What is really interesting about this is that we are in the same space, so if we need to read body language, we can.
  127. [03:37:34] <tara> For example, when Tantek uses the cut cut sign, I know to stop typing
  128. [03:37:49] <tara> Otherwise, I would just keep going
  129. [03:37:49] <Enric> This actually works quite well...you can say things w/o waiting for a moment when someone has attention to you...
  130. [03:37:51] * tantek has not yet used the cut sign.
  131. [03:37:58] * sexygirl153 (n=cal@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  132. [03:38:10] * Enric looks around
  133. [03:38:18] <tara> hey sexygirl153
  134. [03:38:24] <sexygirl153> hey tara
  135. [03:38:54] <tara> loving it
  136. [03:39:06] * tantek changes topic to 'media-info / fotonotes discussion || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || http://www.digital-web.com/articles/microformats_primer/ | Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
  137. [03:39:08] * gregelin (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  138. [03:39:13] <gregelin> Heh.
  139. [03:39:28] <tantek> hi greg
  140. [03:39:34] <gregelin> Hi tantek.
  141. [03:39:37] <sexygirl153> hi greg
  142. [03:39:37] <tara> hey gregelin
  143. [03:39:42] <gregelin> Hi.
  144. [03:39:56] <tantek> hey termie, could you invite jibot in here?
  145. [03:40:01] <bewest|symphony> tantek: I was curious what kind of system you use for your home page?
  146. [03:40:08] <gregelin> Hi everyone.
  147. [03:40:09] <tantek> "system"?
  148. [03:40:10] <bewest|symphony> tantek: do you use a blogging platform or did you roll your own?
  149. [03:41:04] <bewest|symphony> I looked for a tell tale generator tag and a colophon but came up short
  150. [03:41:17] <tantek> bewest - see: http://tantek.com/log/2003/04.html#L20030423t1659
  151. [03:42:26] <Enric> I knew someone who wrote HTML by hand...I did that for awhile and got used to it...
  152. [03:43:42] <bewest|symphony> interesting... I actually am more comfortable writing the html myself
  153. [03:44:56] <bewest|symphony> but I'm not interested in managing the stuff that should be the same
  154. [03:45:28] <bewest|symphony> such as headers
  155. [03:45:44] <tantek> indeed
  156. [03:45:56] <tantek> so many folks end up writing their own lightweight template systems and templates
  157. [03:46:20] <bewest|symphony> tantek: so you do have a lightweight cms?
  158. [03:46:40] <tantek> i certainly wouldn't call it a cms
  159. [03:47:10] <bewest|symphony> tantek: do you use preprocessing, or on the fly inclusion?
  160. [03:47:21] <tantek> static files
  161. [03:47:22] <tara> As people are finished eating, please allow me to direct your attention to the following link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/missrogue/88695404/
  162. [03:47:35] <tara> Now, what happened here?
  163. [03:47:39] <tara> Okay...let me explain
  164. [03:47:53] <tara> I uploaded a jpg, stolen shamelessly from a google image search
  165. [03:48:15] <tara> Never tagged it
  166. [03:48:23] <bewest|symphony> so I'm curious: is adding a page to the site roughly the same amount of work as adding a blog post?
  167. [03:48:40] <bewest|symphony> and what automatic mechanism, if any, is used to organize the new blog post?
  168. [03:49:00] <bewest|symphony> I'm debating strategies for my own site, and have admired yours for some time
  169. [03:49:15] <tara> Here is the story: http://www.flickr.com/photos/missrogue/88133619/ (once again flickerized)
  170. [03:50:20] <tantek> bewest, i'm not sure i have much to admire there. they're all static files on an ftp server, generated with some hard-coded templates and a wizard-like program
  171. [03:51:35] <tantek> combined with usenet style text markup interpretation
  172. [03:51:40] <tantek> tara, that is very interesting
  173. [03:52:00] <tara> Here is a shot of the EXIF data in Photoshop (although I corrupted it by removing the Corbis Copyright information): http://www.flickr.com/photos/missrogue/88790955/
  174. [03:52:06] <tantek> cal says the tags were auto-extracted from the IPTC chunk in the JPEG
  175. [03:52:10] <tara> yes
  176. [03:52:15] <tantek> rather than the EXIF
  177. [03:52:18] <tara> oh
  178. [03:52:20] <tara> hmmmm
  179. [03:52:22] <tara> k
  180. [03:52:50] <tara> I don't know how that works, but, after I saw that, I started wondering why tagging photos in riya couldn't work the same way?
  181. [03:53:29] <tantek> it could
  182. [03:53:31] <tara> That when I do all of the work tagging my photos, why I couldn't bring those tags to my blog posts, my flickr account, my iphoto
  183. [03:53:38] <tantek> a photoservice could *add* tags to the IPTC as well
  184. [03:53:43] <tara> so, that's why I wanted to meet
  185. [03:53:51] * gregelin_ (n=gregelin@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  186. [03:54:00] <tara> and discuss how the best way of going about this is
  187. [03:54:36] <tantek> well, invisible/embedded metadata like IPTC is a bit orthogonal to microformats
  188. [03:54:39] <gregelin_> (test)
  189. [03:54:46] <tara> hi gregelin_
  190. [03:54:58] <gregelin_> (moving over to colloquy...)
  191. [03:55:08] * gregelin (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  192. [03:55:24] * gregelin_ is now known as gregelin
  193. [03:55:47] <tara> That image is a Corbis image
  194. [03:56:06] <tara> Which means to me that they've employed a lot of underpaid data monkeys to input all of that stuff
  195. [03:56:16] <tantek> yes
  196. [03:56:27] <sexygirl153> it's auto-pop'd from their database into iptc blocks
  197. [03:56:30] <gregelin> Tara, you and I discussed three things in relation to microformats: 1) Notes 2) Tags and 3) EXIF.
  198. [03:56:37] <tara> yes
  199. [03:56:40] <sexygirl153> and xmp blocks by the look of things
  200. [03:57:02] <tantek> but i'm much more interested in what people actually publish visibly on the web around photos and other media - and that's where microformats can help
  201. [03:57:03] <tara> sexygirl153 I'll direct you to the original image
  202. [03:57:04] <Enric> is there a command for sending a private msg?
  203. [03:57:06] <gregelin> maybe we should first define if we are talking about all these for microformats.
  204. [03:57:13] <sexygirl153> tara - i saw it
  205. [03:57:14] <tantek> enric, /msg nick
  206. [03:57:19] <Enric> thanks
  207. [03:57:27] <tara> k
  208. [03:57:27] <gregelin> examples, tantek?
  209. [03:58:43] <tantek> greg, precisely
  210. [03:58:48] <tantek> we have to start with examples
  211. [04:00:00] * josh____ (n=josh@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  212. [04:01:41] <tantek> there was an initial attempt for media metadata in general which spiraled out of control / overboard
  213. [04:01:41] <tara> hi josh__
  214. [04:01:41] <josh____> hey akk
  215. [04:01:41] <josh____> all
  216. [04:01:41] <tara> hi josh___
  217. [04:01:41] <tantek> (which seems to happen a lot with media information)
  218. [04:01:41] <tara> lol
  219. [04:01:41] <tantek> hi josh_____
  220. [04:01:41] <josh____> it didn't spiral out of control as much as it needed to be gardened.. and we do need a lot of that info -- mary
  221. [04:01:41] <josh____> the translation table has been really useful for a bunch of folks -- mary
  222. [04:01:41] <tara> alright, so maybe we should talk about what was done and why
  223. [04:01:49] <josh____> chris allen left a gazillion straw men at the top of it.. that made it seem out of control -- mary
  224. [04:01:56] <tantek> well it spiralled out of control in terms of trying come up with a microformat by looking at commonalities of other formats which themselves were grossly overdesigned
  225. [04:02:07] <josh____> the table comparison was useful... josh'
  226. [04:02:17] <tantek> and no-one actually bothered documenting *real* examples on the *web*
  227. [04:02:23] <tantek> people jumped straight to existing formats
  228. [04:02:33] <tantek> which are actually less relevant compared to *actual* human behavior
  229. [04:02:43] <josh____> true, way overdesigned compared to what people *do*, which is actuallly pretty simple
  230. [04:02:48] <tara> gregelin, maybe you could show us your code (;))
  231. [04:02:48] <josh____> --josh
  232. [04:02:48] <tantek> right
  233. [04:03:06] <tara> gregelin, what you showed me the other day with the container tags
  234. [04:03:08] <gregelin> Sure.
  235. [04:03:09] <josh____> the most people *do* is this:
  236. [04:03:15] <gregelin> Let me get the URL.
  237. [04:03:19] <tantek> here is the page we are talking about (old page with big tables/lists) : http://microformats.org/wiki/media-metadata-examples
  238. [04:03:36] <gregelin> Tantek, can you just describe some things that you mean by "What people are putting next to the photo?"
  239. [04:03:40] <josh____> <a href="http://link/to/video.mov"><img src="http://my/image.jpg"></a>
  240. [04:03:45] <tantek> so I basically gave up on that page because it will be impossible to garden without spending hours of work, and it is not clear that doing so is actually useful for a microformat
  241. [04:03:51] <tantek> and instead started over here:
  242. [04:03:55] <josh____> oh, sorry, that's for video
  243. [04:04:00] <josh____> images, righteo
  244. [04:07:07] * sexygirl153b (n=cal@adsl-71-141-21-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  245. [04:07:13] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-21-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  246. [04:08:12] <Enric_> test (if still connected)
  247. [04:08:19] <sexygirl153b> ping
  248. [04:09:09] <Atamido> pong
  249. [04:09:14] <Enric_> hi guys
  250. [04:09:26] <sexygirl153b> ouch, 51 second ping
  251. [04:09:29] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-71-141-21-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  252. [04:10:40] <Atamido> The server must be on dialup. ;)
  253. [04:10:40] <sexygirl153b> minimal photo metadata: title/caption, description, tags?, author/taker
  254. [04:11:14] <sexygirl153b> secondary metadata: time taken, location, exif/tiff/iptc tags, 'notes'
  255. [04:11:56] <sexygirl153b> oh - and the URL to it being the primary data item when you're posting it on the web :)
  256. [04:14:53] * sexygirl153b (n=cal@adsl-71-141-21-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  257. [04:14:53] * tantek_ (n=tantek@adsl-71-141-21-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  259. [04:16:02] * sexygirl153b (n=cal@ppp-71-139-195-31.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  260. [04:16:05] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-21-18.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  262. [04:17:29] <Hixie> tantek: yt?
  263. [04:18:00] * Atamido wonders why sexy girls alwasy leave him.
  264. [04:18:59] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@ppp-71-139-195-31.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  265. [04:22:09] * tantek_ (n=tantek@ppp-71-139-169-93.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  266. [04:22:48] <tantek_> hixie?
  267. [04:23:09] * TantekC (n=Tantek@ppp-71-139-169-93.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  268. [04:23:32] <Hixie> heya
  269. [04:23:35] <Hixie> question for you
  270. [04:23:40] <Hixie> o' master of css hacks
  271. [04:23:46] <tantek_> microformats related? ;)
  272. [04:24:34] * Enric__ (n=chatzill@ppp-71-139-169-93.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  273. [04:25:26] * sexygirl153 (n=cal@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  274. [04:26:26] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  276. [04:27:14] * josh____ (n=josh@adsl-71-141-26-195.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  280. [04:27:30] * Enric___ (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  281. [04:27:32] * Enric___ is now known as Enric
  282. [04:27:33] * tara (n=tara@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  283. [04:27:49] * dustym (n=dustym@68-191-210-206.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com) Quit ()
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  285. [04:29:15] <Tantek> greetings again
  286. [04:30:16] <Enric> hey
  287. [04:31:52] * dustym (n=dustym@68-191-210-206.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com) has joined #microformats
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  289. [04:34:33] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20051010]")
  290. [04:38:20] * sexygirl153b (n=cal@ppp-71-139-195-31.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  291. [04:38:46] * gregelin_ (n=gregelin@ppp-71-139-195-31.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  292. [04:40:12] * tara_ (n=tara@ppp-71-139-195-31.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  293. [04:43:38] <gregelin> testing
  294. [04:43:45] <gregelin> View source of this page: http://fotonotes.net/test_dog.html
  295. [04:44:12] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@ppp-71-139-195-31.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  296. [04:45:09] * Enric__ (n=chatzill@ppp-71-139-169-93.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  297. [04:45:37] * tantek_ (n=tantek@ppp-71-139-169-93.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  298. [04:45:45] * TantekC (n=Tantek@ppp-71-139-169-93.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  299. [04:53:21] <tara> testing
  300. [04:53:22] <gregelin> testing.
  301. [04:54:01] <pnhChris> failed
  302. [04:54:28] <gregelin> damn.
  303. [04:54:53] * Enric (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  304. [04:59:21] * Enric (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  305. [05:01:12] <Enric> Mary Hodder's design: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cirne/88811713/
  306. [05:02:07] <Enric> .
  307. [05:05:11] <Enric> photo set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cirne/sets/72057594051062739/
  308. [05:13:18] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
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  310. [05:16:14] * tara (n=tara@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
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  313. [05:29:49] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  314. [05:29:52] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  315. [05:30:12] * ChanServ sets mode +o Tantek
  316. [05:31:23] <Tantek> hey ryan
  317. [05:31:31] <Tantek> we are still at 21A
  318. [05:39:04] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  324. [05:59:54] * gregelin (n=gregelin@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit ()
  325. [06:02:09] * Tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  326. [06:06:37] * gregelin (n=gregelin@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  327. [06:08:18] * gregelin (n=gregelin@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  328. [06:15:44] <Atamido> Oooh, a reply to my hReview comment.
  329. [06:25:03] * gregelin (n=gregelin@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) has joined #microformats
  330. [06:25:43] * gregelin (n=gregelin@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  331. [06:27:00] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@pcp01381199pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net) Quit ()
  332. [06:41:51] * Enric_ (n=chatzill@adsl-71-139-210-182.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  333. [06:41:52] * Enric_ is now known as Enric
  334. [06:43:24] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  335. [06:44:42] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-68-160-8-234.bos.east.verizon.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  336. [06:48:37] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  337. [06:50:42] * Tantek (n=Tantek@adsl-71-141-32-86.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  338. [06:52:16] <Enric> .
  339. [06:52:26] <Enric> anyone still here?
  340. [06:55:14] <mfbot> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=irc&diff=0&oldid=4251 * Enric * (+31) People on irc -
  341. [06:57:05] <Enric> bye
  342. [06:57:10] * Enric (n=chatzill@adsl-71-139-210-182.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  343. [07:03:05] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
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  347. [08:32:50] * kingryan is now known as kingryan|sleep
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  351. [11:00:52] * termie_ (i=andy@rdns.97.161.62.64.fre.communitycolo.net) has joined #microformats
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  353. [11:01:33] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.113.9.138.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #microformats
  354. [11:01:54] * jibot (i=jibot@rdns.97.161.62.64.fre.communitycolo.net) has joined #microformats
  355. [11:14:18] * rav- (n=serdar@210.84.43.28) has joined #microformats
  356. [11:14:18] <jibot> rav- is Serdar Kilic and blogging at http://weblog.kilic.net/
  357. [11:30:41] * danja (i=DannyAye@host20-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) has joined #microformats
  358. [12:04:09] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  359. [12:04:09] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
  360. [13:01:04] * rav- (n=serdar@210.84.43.28) Quit ()
  361. [13:08:40] * dNr (i=dnr@gwalk-56.d.port.ac.uk) has joined #microformats
  362. [13:26:11] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-170.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  363. [14:03:46] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-170.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #Microformats
  364. [14:03:46] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego and a college student studying to supplement web scripting skills with an understanding of interactive design. and is on hiatus until March to find work in the Dallas area.
  365. [14:05:45] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  366. [14:13:26] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2480P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  367. [14:13:26] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann (Timezone: 0100)
  368. [14:30:46] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  369. [14:34:19] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  370. [14:39:01] * bewest|work (n=bewest@pcp0011022684pcs.midltn01.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  371. [14:52:08] * _psychic_ (n=john@128.187.133.227) has joined #microformats
  372. [15:19:17] * _psychic_ (n=john@128.187.133.227) Quit ()
  373. [15:25:31] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) has joined #microformats
  374. [15:32:52] * izo_ (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  375. [15:41:30] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  376. [15:44:49] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4252 * B.K. DeLong * (+158) Implementations -
  377. [15:52:50] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  378. [15:59:31] * dNr (i=dnr@gwalk-56.d.port.ac.uk) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  379. [16:00:33] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  380. [16:00:33] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com)
  381. [16:15:11] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4253 * Tantek * (+36) See Also -
  382. [16:16:47] <_psychic_> is there a microformat for comments (like blog comments, etc.) ?
  383. [16:17:39] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) has joined #microformats
  384. [16:18:06] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) has joined #microformats
  385. [16:25:36] <RobertBachmann> _psychic_: no
  386. [16:25:38] * gregelin (n=gregelin@dsl092-218-043.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  387. [16:26:11] <RobertBachmann> thought hatom could be related
  388. [16:26:18] <_psychic_> RobertBachmann: do you think looking into creating one would be a good idea?
  389. [16:26:30] <bkdelong> Actually, I think hAtom would cover most of it
  390. [16:26:52] <bkdelong> No need to create a NEW microformat....just give examples of using hAtom to markup comments.
  391. [16:27:26] <RobertBachmann> I agree with bkdelong.
  392. [16:27:38] <_psychic_> cool. Thanks.
  393. [16:34:11] <RobertBachmann> has anyone used hatom for forums?
  394. [16:34:47] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@pcp01381199pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  395. [16:40:30] <Atamido> RobertBachmann: That is on my todo list.
  396. [16:41:33] <mfbot> [[User:ChrisCasciano]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:ChrisCasciano * ChrisCasciano * (+204) created my page
  397. [16:46:34] <mfbot> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xfn-implementations&diff=0&oldid=4254 * ChrisCasciano * (+238) XFN Implementations - txp plugin -
  398. [16:47:18] <bkdelong> I'm being lazy again - anyone know where I can see examples of markup of Blog posting details? I.e. Marking up title, author name, date, time, etc?
  399. [16:47:37] <RobertBachmann> Atamido: Got any special forum systems on your mind?
  400. [16:47:55] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=4255 * ChrisCasciano * (+242) Implementations - txp plugin -
  401. [16:48:12] <Atamido> The form system for MD-Pro, which is nuke based.
  402. [16:48:36] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=4256 * ChrisCasciano * (+233) Implementations - txp plugin -
  403. [16:48:49] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit ()
  404. [16:49:32] <mfbot> [[adr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4257 * ChrisCasciano * (+239) Implementations - txp plugin -
  405. [16:52:00] <RobertBachmann> Atamido: maxdev.com?
  406. [16:52:13] <Atamido> Yeah.
  407. [16:53:32] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) has joined #microformats
  408. [16:53:37] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  409. [16:59:40] <RobertBachmann> the forum looks similar to phpBB.
  410. [17:00:58] <Atamido> Yep.
  411. [17:05:04] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  412. [17:05:04] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  413. [17:05:19] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  414. [17:09:36] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  415. [17:09:51] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  416. [17:09:56] <Enric> Hello
  417. [17:10:04] <Atamido> I wonder if tantek is ever not Tantek.
  418. [17:10:12] <Enric> lol
  419. [17:10:18] <Enric> Tantek, are you there?
  420. [17:15:32] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  421. [17:19:00] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) has joined #microformats
  422. [17:21:16] <RobertBachmann> Atamido: Tantek tried to tell jibot "tantek is Tantek Çelik ..." but jibot couldn't cope with the Ç.
  423. [17:24:51] * _psychic1 (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  424. [17:28:39] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  425. [17:29:05] * _psychic1 is now known as _psychic_
  426. [17:32:18] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) Quit ()
  427. [17:37:00] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2480P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  428. [17:49:37] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2450P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  429. [17:49:37] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann (Timezone: 0100)
  430. [17:49:57] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  431. [17:51:42] * mflogbot (n=PircBot@213.235.239.37) has joined #microformats
  432. [17:51:42] * Topic is 'media-info / fotonotes discussion || add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc || http://www.digital-web.com/articles/microformats_primer/ | Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
  433. [17:51:42] * Set by tantek on Fri Jan 20 04:39:06 CET 2006
  434. [17:52:29] <RobertBachmann> ?forgetme
  435. [17:52:29] <jibot> I have expunged RobertBachmann from my mind
  436. [17:53:53] <RobertBachmann> ?learn RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
  437. [17:53:53] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
  438. [17:54:21] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) has joined #microformats
  439. [17:54:57] <bewest|work> RobertBachmann: how's the Mozart celebration going?
  440. [17:55:13] <bewest|work> you participating at all?
  441. [17:55:38] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  442. [17:57:05] <Enric> hello?
  443. [17:57:22] <RobertBachmann> bewest|work: I'm not participating, I prefer other kinds of music.
  444. [17:57:28] <RobertBachmann> hello Enric
  445. [17:57:40] * Atamido wonders if he should add his timezone on.
  446. [17:57:40] <Enric> Hi Robert... :)
  447. [17:58:01] * Enric wonders if tantek is around
  448. [17:59:56] <Enric> see you guys later
  449. [18:00:24] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  450. [18:02:25] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  451. [18:03:21] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  452. [18:06:47] <Enric> ping
  453. [18:07:24] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  454. [18:07:24] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  455. [18:07:28] * timb_ (n=tim@mail.del.icio.us) has joined #microformats
  456. [18:07:56] <RobertBachmann> pong
  457. [18:08:00] * timb (n=tim@mail.del.icio.us) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  458. [18:08:05] <Enric> lol
  459. [18:10:29] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-1-222.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  460. [18:10:43] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  461. [18:10:44] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  462. [18:17:45] * kingryan|sleep is now known as kingryan
  463. [18:17:46] <Atamido> There are a million people linking to this image on my web server. http://orangeman.commo.de/images/carrot.jpg
  464. [18:17:53] <Atamido> Time to change it to something interesting.
  465. [18:18:34] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) has joined #microformats
  466. [18:23:04] <trovster> A million?
  467. [18:27:23] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2450P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  468. [18:36:45] <Atamido> I rounded up to the nearest million.
  469. [18:37:07] <Enric> not down ;P)
  470. [18:37:20] <Atamido> It is enough to result in hundreds of leeching hits.
  471. [18:37:26] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4258 * Tantek * (+545) added 2006 presentations
  472. [18:37:36] <Atamido> My cable modem provider won't be pleased. ;)
  473. [18:44:39] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  474. [18:44:40] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  475. [18:46:52] <mfbot> [[rel-license]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-license&diff=0&oldid=4259 * Tantek * (+265)
  476. [18:48:58] <mfbot> [[geo]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=4260 * Tantek * (-1) Implementations -
  477. [18:59:04] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  478. [19:01:40] * timb_ is now known as timb
  479. [19:08:39] <trovster> Is geo-tags in the head worthy of being added as an example to that page?
  480. [19:09:29] <tantek> no, because they are invisible
  481. [19:09:33] <tantek> they are worthless
  482. [19:09:37] <tantek> like meta keywords
  483. [19:09:49] <trovster> Yeh, just noticed the class="" above it
  484. [19:10:31] <bergie> they're not worthless if the user agents support them, but few do
  485. [19:10:52] <trovster> Well, I've got a greasemonkey script which links to google maps, quite interesting.
  486. [19:11:27] <bergie> trovster: there is also http://www.splintered.co.uk/experiments/71/
  487. [19:12:25] <trovster> Interesting... I'll check it out
  488. [19:13:09] <bergie> I have it installed. The globe in status bar lits up if the geo meta tags are found, and they link to geourl, google maps or flickr
  489. [19:13:40] <trovster> www.approveddesign.com/about/contact/ - try that then...
  490. [19:13:54] <Enric> howdy Tantek
  491. [19:14:10] <tantek> hello
  492. [19:14:25] <Enric> Did you get my email about TBMA?
  493. [19:15:02] <trovster> oops, http://www.approveddesign.co.uk/about/contact/ I meant.
  494. [19:15:47] <bergie> trovster: gives me http://maps.google.com/?sll=52.7498,-1.9184
  495. [19:16:04] <tantek> ?def TBMA
  496. [19:16:05] <jibot> Nobody has defined TBMA yet
  497. [19:16:19] <bergie> trovster: and http://www.allthegoodness.com/projects/map/firefox/index.php?lat=52.7498&long=-1.9184
  498. [19:17:05] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4261 * Mary Hodder * (+661)
  499. [19:17:39] <Enric> I'm developing an idea for a Time Based Media Annotation (TBMA) microformat...
  500. [19:20:57] <tantek> have you thought about what use cases you are trying to solve?
  501. [19:26:46] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4262 * Tantek * (-661) Reverted edit of Mary Hodder, changed back to last version by Tantek
  502. [19:29:42] <mfbot> [[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4263 * Tantek * (+302) generic analysis in examples pages will be deleted
  503. [19:30:56] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
  504. [19:31:13] <markp> tantek?
  505. [19:32:04] <tantek> hey markp
  506. [19:32:54] <markp> what's the state of hCalendar?
  507. [19:33:04] <markp> ready for implementation?
  508. [19:44:29] * gregelin (n=gregelin@dsl092-218-043.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  509. [19:44:52] * gregelin (n=gregelin@dsl092-218-043.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  510. [19:45:03] * gregelin (n=gregelin@dsl092-218-043.sfo2.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  511. [19:46:29] <bergie> markp: hCalendar? yeah, works quite nicely...
  512. [19:47:04] <bergie> markp: http://weblog.infoworld.com/udell/2006/01/11.html
  513. [19:47:15] <trovster> Is there a hcard to vcard for Macs?
  514. [19:48:46] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  515. [19:48:47] <jibot> factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
  516. [19:49:11] <Enric> Hey Chris :)
  517. [19:49:18] <factoryjoe> hi Enric
  518. [19:49:22] <Enric> how goes it?
  519. [19:49:30] <factoryjoe> anh, not bad, yourself?
  520. [19:49:50] <Enric> great photo that jitbot provided of you...
  521. [19:50:09] <Enric> Pretty good...brainstorming a microformat for time based media ...
  522. [19:50:22] <tantek> markp, any particular questions about hCalendar?
  523. [19:50:29] <tantek> the vevent subset works quite well
  524. [19:50:35] <tantek> and has been fairly well exercised
  525. [19:50:40] <Enric> are you at flock, chris?
  526. [19:50:49] <tantek> with the exception of rrules and rdates (and exrules and exdates)
  527. [19:51:18] <tantek> essentially very similar to the iCal-Basic profile
  528. [19:51:29] <factoryjoe> Enric: @ cctp
  529. [19:51:31] <factoryjoe> err cttp
  530. [19:51:34] <factoryjoe> in the haight
  531. [19:51:37] <factoryjoe> working remote today
  532. [19:51:51] <factoryjoe> tantek: whoa, imagine using vevent for rich media...
  533. [19:52:16] <factoryjoe> event start-end corresponds to the section of the media to which you're referring..
  534. [19:53:36] <Enric> chris: ahh...ok...I see now...how's the weather
  535. [19:54:39] <factoryjoe> chilly!
  536. [19:54:42] <factoryjoe> where are you man?
  537. [19:55:40] <Enric> I'm at home... ;)
  538. [19:56:41] <markp> tantek, bergie: thanks
  539. [19:56:56] <markp> i'm looking for microformats that are mature enough to implement in feedparser.py
  540. [19:57:17] <markp> version 4.2 is all about the microformats
  541. [19:57:35] <factoryjoe> markp: will your feedparser thingie be available maybe to use in flock?
  542. [19:57:40] <factoryjoe> as an extension or something?
  543. [19:57:45] <factoryjoe> would be useful to attach to lucene maybe
  544. [19:57:53] <markp> it's python
  545. [19:58:01] <markp> but i have a version of the hcard parser in javascript
  546. [19:58:12] <markp> http://diveintomark.org/projects/greasemonkey/hcard/
  547. [19:59:06] <bergie> we got one of the bigger skiing centers in Finland to publish their events in hcal: http://www.pyha.fi/talvi/tapahtumat/
  548. [20:00:04] <bergie> though it seems their latest implementation of it isn't fully valid :-/
  549. [20:00:37] <factoryjoe> we need a validator!
  550. [20:01:02] <tantek> or several ;)
  551. [20:02:02] <markp> validator.microformats.org ?
  552. [20:02:32] <factoryjoe> oh?
  553. [20:02:36] <factoryjoe> heh nice
  554. [20:02:40] <markp> just a hypothetical
  555. [20:03:27] <tantek> that would make a lot of sense wouldn't it?
  556. [20:03:37] <bergie> definitely
  557. [20:07:21] <Enric> it's pretty cool using IRC to ping people..
  558. [20:09:08] <factoryjoe> heh
  559. [20:09:11] <factoryjoe> welcome to IRC, Enric
  560. [20:09:24] <Enric> yup...thanks
  561. [20:16:29] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  562. [20:21:55] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N013P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  563. [20:21:55] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
  564. [20:26:01] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  565. [20:27:28] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) Quit ()
  566. [20:36:14] <RobertBachmann> Anyone read <http://www.gerd-riesselmann.net/archives/2005/12/microformats-ignoring-user-experiences> ?
  567. [20:40:27] * gregelin (n=gregelin@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  568. [20:41:12] <bkdelong> He's got a point at least as it comes to Web accessibility.
  569. [20:44:49] <trovster> That is a good point. I thought it was wierd when I looked at the GEO microformats use of the abbr
  570. [20:47:14] <RobertBachmann> alternatives?
  571. [20:48:36] <trovster> Well, span is generic enough, it doesn't need to add emphisis
  572. [20:49:47] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  573. [20:49:47] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  574. [20:54:22] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-74-125.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  575. [20:54:22] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  576. [21:01:01] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N013P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("BRB")
  577. [21:05:18] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  578. [21:20:17] <dglazkov> any more thoughts on gerd's article? Other than it having a rather jack-assy attitude?
  579. [21:23:44] <_psychic_> is it related to this at all? http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/20/151239&from=rss
  580. [21:25:44] <dglazkov> eh.
  581. [21:25:45] <trovster> dglazkov: I was a jack-assy tone of voice, but it's true.
  582. [21:25:51] <trovster> And makes a completely valid point.
  583. [21:36:38] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  584. [21:43:38] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  585. [21:44:19] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2480P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  586. [21:44:19] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at> and lives in Austria (Timezone: +01:00)
  587. [21:49:02] * tara (n=tara@h-66-134-141-205.snvacaid.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  588. [21:49:02] <jibot> tara is Miss HorsePigCow (http://www.horsepigcow.com/) and the alter-ego of missrogue
  589. [21:49:30] <tara> nice da bot is in da house
  590. [21:50:11] * tantek (n=tantek@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  591. [21:50:11] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  592. [21:50:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  593. [21:51:33] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  594. [21:52:50] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.3 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  595. [21:59:48] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.3 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  596. [22:03:09] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit ()
  597. [22:14:57] * bewest|work (n=bewest@pcp0011022684pcs.midltn01.nj.comcast.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  598. [22:15:10] <gregelin> test
  599. [22:15:14] <tantek> welcome greg!
  600. [22:15:18] <gregelin> :-)
  601. [22:17:19] <tara> hi gregelin
  602. [22:22:45] <gregelin> Hi tara!
  603. [22:23:08] <tara> gregelin: you and tantek progressing along nicely?
  604. [22:23:38] <gregelin> yes. We keep getting distracted by interesting ideas...
  605. [22:24:21] <tantek> hey tara
  606. [22:24:31] <tara> hey tantek
  607. [22:24:36] <tara> interesting ideas are goo
  608. [22:24:39] <tara> d
  609. [22:25:07] <tara> tantek: did you see mary's post this morning?
  610. [22:26:02] <tara> http://napsterization.org/stories/archives/000580.html
  611. [22:26:07] <tantek> yes
  612. [22:26:16] <tantek> a good brainstorming summary
  613. [22:26:20] <tara> yes
  614. [22:26:31] <tara> it sounds like we're pointing down the right path
  615. [22:27:59] <tara> gregelin: did you ever show tantek the markup behind the dog photo? Maybe it doesn't matter...but it really drove it home for me...
  616. [22:28:22] <gregelin> tara: yes. looking at now.
  617. [22:28:30] <tara> awesome
  618. [22:31:26] * _psychic1 (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  619. [22:31:49] * izo_ (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  620. [22:34:06] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.113.9.138.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit ()
  621. [22:36:26] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  622. [22:36:49] * _psychic1 (n=john@71.32.228.156) Quit ()
  623. [22:37:27] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  624. [22:43:10] <RobertBachmann> trovster: "Well, span is generic enough, it doesn't need to add emphisis" Were you thinking about something like <span class="foo" title="Machine-readable value">Human-readable value</span> instead of <abbr class="foo" title="Machine-readable value">Human-readable value</abbr>, or were you thinking of using <span> instead of the title attribute?
  625. [22:43:30] <tantek> huh?
  626. [22:44:32] <RobertBachmann> tantek: http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-01-20#T203614
  627. [22:46:30] <tantek> yes i saw that
  628. [22:50:03] <RobertBachmann> your opinion?
  629. [22:50:30] <tantek> the author of that blog post is clueless about actual support of title by accessibility software etc. and is talking purely from theory / mispropagated conventions. This presentation at WE05 debunked most of that quite thoroughly: http://www.sf.id.au/WE05/indexa.html
  630. [22:51:11] <tantek> the title of the talk was "The title atribute - What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!"
  631. [22:51:19] <tantek> which is good, because we have found a use for it :)
  632. [22:55:37] <BenjaminCarlyle> Screen readers that understood the microformat convetion should actually be able to make better use of the microformatted data than they could the visual-human-formatted data.
  633. [22:56:00] <tantek> precisely correct Benjamin
  634. [22:56:09] <tantek> btw, program from WE05: http://we05.com/program.cfm
  635. [22:56:16] <tantek> (marked up with hCalendar, natch)
  636. [23:01:37] * danja (i=DannyAye@host20-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit ("Ciao!")
  637. [23:06:19] <RobertBachmann> So "I was born on <abbr class='bday' title="1985-04-07">4/7/1985</abbr>" could be read by a screenreader as "I was born on Sunday the 7th of April 1985"?
  638. [23:07:27] <RobertBachmann> microformats aware screenreader, that is.
  639. [23:09:50] <tantek> yes
  640. [23:09:57] <tantek> because the screen reader would have the precise date
  641. [23:10:10] <tantek> it could then "render" that intelligently
  642. [23:10:21] <pnhChris> i dunno
  643. [23:10:24] <pnhChris> sounds fishy
  644. [23:10:25] <tantek> similar to how a microformats-aware visual browser could render a calendar
  645. [23:10:34] <tantek> see HTML5 draft for an example
  646. [23:10:38] <pnhChris> hows it gonna konw the best way to read it contextually?
  647. [23:10:59] <tantek> that problem is orthogonal
  648. [23:11:11] <tantek> at least with microformats the screen reader will *know* that it is semantically a date
  649. [23:11:21] <tantek> and thus can treat it more intelligently than simply a sequence of characters
  650. [23:11:38] <pnhChris> wouldn't the written word / human readable form also be the most 'digestible' form for the spoken word?
  651. [23:13:12] <tantek> not in any international sort of way
  652. [23:13:38] <tantek> what's most digestible for the eye is not necessarily what is most digestible for the ear
  653. [23:13:41] <RobertBachmann> btw: "Sunday the 7th of April 1985" sounds much better than "four slash seven slash ..."
  654. [23:13:48] <tantek> precisely
  655. [23:13:50] <pnhChris> maybe the birthday example isn't the best case.. how about an event next month
  656. [23:14:20] <tantek> consider email programs that are smart enough to put "today" instead of the full date for today and "yesterday" similarly
  657. [23:14:30] <tantek> screen readers could do the same
  658. [23:14:36] <pnhChris> "So i'm throwing a party on <abbr class='bday' title="1985-04-07">April 7th</abbr>, you should all come!"
  659. [23:15:26] <BenjaminCarlyle> I think that a lot of the benefits microformats open up to vision-impaired folk will actually be in getting through their content faster. The ear is slow, but things like hAtom will allow a user to skip onto the next blog entry quickly. hCalendar will allow them to quickly scan through the events in a page.
  660. [23:15:53] <pnhChris> yes.. and also in making things more digestable.. like going back to someones birthday quicky
  661. [23:16:39] <pnhChris> i just don't know about the reading the title bit... works in some context, but i'd rather have it not read in others
  662. [23:16:52] <RobertBachmann> which ones?
  663. [23:18:14] <pnhChris> the less formal cases, like my example
  664. [23:18:15] <BenjaminCarlyle> phnChris: I've just been reading through <http://www.sf.id.au/WE05/indexa.html> (as per tantek a few screens back). The author seems to think that vision-impaired tools tend to ignore title anyway, by default.
  665. [23:18:51] <pnhChris> (minus the error in copying over class="bday")
  666. [23:18:55] <BenjaminCarlyle> ... so it would still come out as "April 7th" to the ear.
  667. [23:19:53] <BenjaminCarlyle> Otherwise, the reader could say "that looks like a date" (possibly regardless of any class attribute, or possibly because of context) and say 7-april-1985 (which would be wrong, of course in this context...)
  668. [23:20:04] <pnhChris> yes... but the discussion went in the direction of more aware readers, eventually... didn't it?
  669. [23:20:13] <gregelin> (thinking out loud)
  670. [23:20:24] <gregelin> Tantek and I have been kicking ideas around regarding fotonotes.
  671. [23:21:33] <gregelin> I am now wondering if the real problem needing be solved is simply creating a microformat for indicating a part of media object.
  672. [23:22:45] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2480P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  673. [23:23:05] <tantek> the specific problem we first solve is referring to part of a photo
  674. [23:23:19] <tantek> the other related thought was, are photo notes simple a type of hReview
  675. [23:23:20] <tantek> ?
  676. [23:23:34] <tantek> where the item is a *part* of a URL rather than the whole thing at a URL
  677. [23:23:45] <pnhChris> also.. i'd worry about the reading of the title when dealing with both start and end dates for an event..
  678. [23:24:25] <tantek> chris, that's the beauty of marking those both up with hCalendar - a microformats aware screen reader could take that into account
  679. [23:24:32] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
  680. [23:24:38] <tantek> anyway, back to photo notes
  681. [23:24:45] <pnhChris> heh
  682. [23:24:48] <tantek> there are numerous real examples of photo notes on the web
  683. [23:25:06] <tantek> i'm wondering if it is worth solving this a different specific microformat
  684. [23:25:10] <BenjaminCarlyle> phnChris: That would be a tough one for any reader that doesn't understand the microformat, but reads the title regardless. I guess we're hoping that such things don't really exist (or don't constitute an 80%).
  685. [23:25:15] <tantek> separate from the generic media-info problem
  686. [23:25:44] <BenjaminCarlyle> tantek: Are these notes that anyone on the web just happens to make about a particular photo that someone else owns?
  687. [23:25:56] <BenjaminCarlyle> ... or notes from the author about the photo?
  688. [23:26:07] <tantek> both
  689. [23:26:16] <tantek> although i agree that they are interesting different cases
  690. [23:26:20] <tantek> author annotations
  691. [23:26:22] <tantek> 3rd party annotations
  692. [23:26:28] <pnhChris> its really the informal cases that i don't see it working as well.. where the microformat is embedded in a sentence, header or other form.. not a list or other more formal appearance
  693. [23:26:29] <tantek> one microformat may be able to solve both
  694. [23:26:35] <tantek> or you might want a different microformat
  695. [23:27:27] <BenjaminCarlyle> It's interesting that if you decompose hReview, what you really have is probably a "comment/description", a "rating", and a "citation". Perhaps it could be cut down to answer each of those problem domains as necessary by making the other bits optional.
  696. [23:27:45] <tantek> benjamin, not quite
  697. [23:28:28] <tantek> you have the "item" (citation, photo, url etc.), you have the "stuff about the item" (description, tags, rating), you have the "who said it" (reviewer), and you have the "when" (dtreviewed)
  698. [23:29:17] * BenjaminCarlyle nods
  699. [23:30:00] <tantek> to that extent, i am eager to see progress on cite-examples etc.
  700. [23:30:07] <BenjaminCarlyle> But presumably a fotonote would be a description that may or may not have a rating
  701. [23:30:43] <BenjaminCarlyle> ... but I suppose reviewer and dtreviewed start to look more like author and created.
  702. [23:31:33] <tantek> yes, subclasses thereof
  703. [23:31:44] <tantek> a reviewer is an author of sorts
  704. [23:31:51] <tantek> but an author is not necessarily a reviewer
  705. [23:32:19] <tantek> same thing with the other two
  706. [23:32:28] * BenjaminCarlyle nods
  707. [23:36:20] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@pcp01381199pcs.levtwn01.pa.comcast.net) Quit ()
  708. [23:37:21] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit ()
  709. [23:37:31] <tantek> well i'm going to document a bunch of *real* examples on the *web* using *URLs* of photo notes and we'll see if we can find some patterns among the empirical behaviors.
  710. [23:38:09] <BenjaminCarlyle> Citation is either really hard (a description of the cited work's characteristics) or really easy (<a href="id">text</a>).
  711. [23:38:16] * BenjaminCarlyle has a look at the wiki pages...
  712. [23:39:01] * tantek goes to write up /wiki/photo-note-examples
  713. [23:39:39] <tantek> anyone know how to lookup which photos of yours on Flickr have the most *notes* (as opposed to comments or tags)?
  714. [23:44:34] * BenjaminCarlyle ponders... when is an <a> element not a citation? Hrmm.. only when there is no connected discussion, eg blogroll. Are all urls in the context of a paragraph citations?
  715. [23:44:57] <gregelin> The XML of Fotonotes (embedded in the jpeg): http://fotonotes.net/spec/index.php/Current_FNAtom_Schema
  716. [23:45:12] <tantek> a citation is a reference to a distinct work of art of some sort
  717. [23:45:22] <tantek> not everything you link to is really considered a distinct work of art
  718. [23:45:26] <tantek> though perhaps most are
  719. [23:45:34] <tantek> so yes, that is a good question, when is a hyperlink not a citation
  720. [23:46:16] <gregelin> "work of art" is a legal term for something created, from a patent to copyrighted work.
  721. [23:47:48] <BenjaminCarlyle> I'll do a bit more reading, then may add the question to cite-brainstorming. I think the answers may guide further discussion.
  722. [23:48:24] <tantek> yes, i'm looking forward to that too
  723. [23:48:40] <tantek> gregelin, that makes sense to me
  724. [23:51:37] * Enric (n=chatzill@c-67-188-10-66.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  725. [23:51:56] <mfbot> [[photo-note-examples]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/photo-note-examples * Tantek * (+1361) first draft
  726. [23:52:13] <gregelin> In order to make an annotation, you need to have a that indicates a "selection"
  727. [23:52:16] <gregelin> oops
  728. [23:52:22] <mfbot> [[photo-note-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=photo-note-examples&diff=0&oldid=4264 * Tantek * (+5) Photo Note Examples -
  729. [23:52:48] * tara (n=tara@h-66-134-141-205.snvacaid.covad.net) Quit ()
  730. [23:54:44] <gregelin> In order to make any type of annotation on media, you need to have a "pointer/reference" into (or of) something, and you need to have a "selection" indicated by some type of "coordinates". Does it make sense to have an equivalent to the "mime-type" for coordinates.
  731. [23:55:34] <tantek> a fragment
  732. [23:56:09] <tantek> posit: the type of a fragment is fully determined by the type of the whole
  733. [23:56:12] <Enric> Hey Greg :)
  734. [23:56:17] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@dsl092-184-073.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  735. [23:56:17] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  736. [23:56:20] <bkdelong> RaJust ran across http://www.rorweb.com/ and http://www.meaningfuel.org from the Structured blogging list.
  737. [23:56:23] <bkdelong> Mike!
  738. [23:56:30] <mlinksva> hi
  739. [23:56:50] <tantek> rorweb looks like lone-inventor looniness
  740. [23:56:52] * _psychic_ (n=john@71.32.228.156) has left #microformats
  741. [23:57:56] <gregelin> Hey Enric.
  742. [23:58:13] <Enric> Hey...good to see you again...

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