IRC Log for #microformats on 2005-12-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:31:43] * karlUshi (n=karl@i220-108-253-211.s02.a013.ap.plala.or.jp) has joined #microformats
  2. [02:39:10] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  3. [03:33:09] * fuzzyBSc (n=fuzzy@c210-49-72-91.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
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  5. [04:42:16] <fuzzyBSc> I wonder if the feed element in hAtom is actually useful :-/
  6. [06:04:28] * fuzzyBSc documents his concerns on the mailing list
  7. [06:11:11] * kingryan (n=kingryan@adsl-65-69-69-159.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) has joined #microformats
  8. [06:11:13] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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  11. [06:25:41] * Atamido doesn't like the use of the class "title" in hAtom AND hCard.
  12. [06:26:51] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20051010]")
  13. [06:30:35] <kingryan> you have a better idea atamido?
  14. [06:31:21] <fuzzyBSc> Atamido: Currently they are disambiguated by context. hAtom can contain vcard only in particular child elements, and hCard cannot contain hAtom. If you just looked for class=title you would not necessarily know what it was the title of, but if you looked for either vcard or entry you should be able to figure out out...
  15. [06:31:52] <fuzzyBSc> Anyway, rebooting to try and revive a dead PC... should be back shortly.
  16. [06:31:55] <Atamido> I know that, and I don't have a better idea, I just don't like that.
  17. [06:32:05] <Atamido> Voicing my opinion. :P
  18. [06:32:18] * fuzzyBSc (n=fuzzy@c210-49-72-91.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  19. [06:32:33] <kingryan> why don't you like it?
  20. [06:32:45] <kingryan> you know, its optional, you can just use an <h#>
  21. [07:16:36] * fuzzyBSc (n=fuzzy@c210-49-72-91.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  22. [07:17:38] <fuzzyBSc> Atamido: I guess you could complain that having these class=title attributes means that your CSS may not be able to use them. You would have to at least add extra CSS classes to style them appropriately.
  23. [07:18:20] <Atamido> kingryan: Except that if your hCard is before your hAtom's title, you're screwed.
  24. [07:18:57] <kingryan> you don't have to use an <h#> for your hcard
  25. [07:19:12] <kingryan> class="title" is there for this case
  26. [07:21:12] <kingryan> wait, nevermind, I misunderstood your point
  27. [07:21:34] <kingryan> I guess the author stuff needs to be defined as opaque
  28. [07:21:50] <Atamido> Indeed. :P
  29. [07:22:02] <kingryan> can you add that to http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues ?
  30. [07:22:09] <fuzzyBSc> Umm... it is opaque, isn't it.
  31. [07:22:11] <fuzzyBSc> ?
  32. [07:22:20] <fuzzyBSc> hAtom2Atom.xsl treats it so.
  33. [07:23:14] <fuzzyBSc> css doesn't have a concept of opaque elements, so it is impossible to style them differently in css without addional class tags... but a proper hAtom parser shouldn't have any trouble.
  34. [07:23:53] <fuzzyBSc> Hrmm.. maybe impossible is too strong a word. css can use some context information.
  35. [07:23:55] <kingryan> the spec doesn't state that "entry author" is opaque
  36. [07:24:49] <mfbot> [[hatom]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=3593 * RyanKing * (+1) Entry Author - typo
  37. [07:25:22] <kingryan> ah, nevermind
  38. [07:25:30] <kingryan> the opaque stuff is only in the table, not in the prose
  39. [07:25:51] <kingryan> so, author is opaque, which means that having an author hcard before the title is not an issue
  40. [07:28:16] * fuzzyBSc nods. Not for a parser.
  41. [07:28:39] <kingryan> that would be a bug in a parser
  42. [07:28:59] <kingryan> it if finds a title inside of an author element, it should not be treated as the entry title
  43. [07:35:12] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  44. [07:35:18] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) has joined #microformats
  45. [07:35:24] <kingryan> alright, time to sleep
  46. [07:35:27] <kingryan> 'night folks
  47. [07:36:10] <fuzzyBSc> Night, Ryan.
  48. [07:36:19] * kingryan (n=kingryan@adsl-65-69-69-159.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net) Quit ()
  49. [09:16:09] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2425P020.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  50. [09:17:50] <RobertBachmann> greetings
  51. [09:37:04] * TheMaecenati (n=TheMaece@dsl081-056-047.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  52. [10:00:12] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
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  55. [11:00:56] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=3594 * JhonnyX * (-1373)
  56. [11:18:49] * karlUshi (n=karl@i220-108-253-211.s02.a013.ap.plala.or.jp) Quit ("Mooooo in another space")
  57. [12:04:20] * valmont (n=chrishol@men75-2-82-66-215-76.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  58. [12:39:34] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=3595 * DavidJanes * (+41) Added Benjamin Carlyle as contributor
  59. [12:44:25] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3596 * DavidJanes * (+49) Why atomentry? -
  60. [12:44:51] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3597 * DavidJanes * (+3) Why atomentry? -
  61. [12:46:32] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3598 * DavidJanes * (+197) Why atomfeed? -
  62. [12:47:13] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3599 * DavidJanes * (+70) Why rel="link" ? -
  63. [12:48:50] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3600 * DavidJanes * (+47) hCards -
  64. [12:49:10] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=3601 * FuzzyBSc * (+64) Add href to my name under Contributors
  65. [12:49:31] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3602 * DavidJanes * (+90) Comparisons -
  66. [12:50:22] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3603 * DavidJanes * (+120) Repeated Elements -
  67. [12:50:38] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3604 * DavidJanes * (+45) Opaqueness -
  68. [12:51:04] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3605 * DavidJanes * (+22) Identification -
  69. [12:51:05] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=3606 * FuzzyBSc * (+2) Revert MUST to SHOULD re absolute URIs
  70. [12:59:37] <mfbot> [[hatom]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=3607 * FuzzyBSc * (+131) Update to reflect explicit class=author and class=contributor attributes
  71. [13:01:53] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  72. [13:05:32] <fuzzyBSc> :)
  73. [13:05:42] <fuzzyBSc> Is there a David Janes in the channel at all?
  74. [14:07:03] * valmont (n=chrishol@men75-2-82-66-215-76.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
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  76. [15:11:20] <fuzzyBSc> Morning, Robert.
  77. [15:14:55] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  78. [15:24:09] <RobertBachmann> hi
  79. [15:37:55] <RobertBachmann> fuzzyBSc: AFAIK David Janes isn't on the channel.
  80. [15:38:37] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=3608 * RobertBachmann * (+1373) Reverted edit of JhonnyX, changed back to last version by RyanKing
  81. [15:38:54] * valmont (n=chrishol@men75-2-82-66-215-76.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  82. [15:39:33] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * RobertBachmann * (+0) blocked "User:JhonnyX" with an expiry time of 48 hours: Vandalizing rel-tag
  83. [15:50:47] <fuzzyBSc> Robert: No :)
  84. [15:51:20] <fuzzyBSc> I was having an email conversation with him, and thought that if he was the progress of that conversation might improve.
  85. [15:53:19] <fuzzyBSc> You haven't heard from Luke at all? It would be nice to have a cosolidated picture of where we are with the transform and test cases. There are still a few fixes that need to go in.
  86. [15:54:54] <RobertBachmann> no I haven't heard from Luke
  87. [15:57:19] <fuzzyBSc> Have you made any progress with xml:base handling?
  88. [15:58:36] <fuzzyBSc> I'm thinking of taking another look at atom:title disambiguation. I think a recursive traversal is required, rather than just descendant:html:*. The combination of disambiguation and opaqueness means that a pure match-based or a pure descendant-based implementation won't work.
  89. [15:58:57] <RobertBachmann> I've had a glance at the spec. Seems like this will be mostly copy & paste from the "get-lang" template.
  90. [15:58:58] <RobertBachmann> I'll give it a try.
  91. [16:00:12] <fuzzyBSc> Yeah, it should be the same.
  92. [16:12:26] <fuzzyBSc> Ok, that's much better. My versions are now under revision control (darcs).
  93. [16:15:54] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
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  96. [16:54:43] * RobertBachmann waits anxiously for svn
  97. [17:01:23] <fuzzyBSc> Hrmm.. I guess we can't use xslt 2.0 features.
  98. [17:01:55] <fuzzyBSc> I'm trying to figure out how to "stop" in the traversal of nodes while looking for a title element.
  99. [17:02:21] * Atamido wonders what SVN this is for.
  100. [17:03:19] <fuzzyBSc> Atamido: hAtom2Atom.xsl. Versioning is currently being managed manually, and a fair bit of change has occured since we last heard from the maintainer sometime around Thursday.
  101. [17:03:46] <fuzzyBSc> (hAtom2Atom.xsl and its expanding test suite)
  102. [17:04:46] <RobertBachmann> fuzzyBSc: is your repositry public?
  103. [17:05:24] <Atamido> Not going to just place the .xsl into the wiki? :P
  104. [17:05:48] <fuzzyBSc> Robert: No, however darcs is designed to support coordination between individual private repositories.
  105. [17:05:58] <fuzzyBSc> I just haven't used it enough to tell you exactly how ;)
  106. [17:07:27] <fuzzyBSc> Atamido: That's not the worst idea, although the extra six files for test cases probably make it impractical.
  107. [17:07:41] <fuzzyBSc> Robert: Do you have a darcs install at your disposal?
  108. [17:10:07] <RobertBachmann> no. but I have a svn repositry via HTTPS, OTOH I could install darcs as well (if it works on Windows)
  109. [17:14:21] <fuzzyBSc> Well, either way. I have two baselines in my repo, 0.0.6 and the set of files I sent to both you and Luke. You could build a repository from that, or install darcs from http://www.darcs.net/. It claims to work under windows.
  110. [17:16:21] <fuzzyBSc> If you go the darcs way I'll send you a tarball to start from.
  111. [17:16:50] <fuzzyBSc> How will your svn repository interact with Lukes? svn isn't really built to have two, is it?
  112. [17:20:55] <RobertBachmann> AFAIK svn doesn't support interaction between repositories. however there are two solutions: Luke could either use mine or he could have use a database dump of mine when he's ready
  113. [17:22:34] <RobertBachmann> ups. that should read as "... he could use a database dump of mine ..."
  114. [17:23:23] <fuzzyBSc> Ok. Darcs is built around a philosophy of having no "main" repository. The idea is that you start by taking a copy of someone else's repository (just a simple directy tree in their home area) and make changes. The changes are then expressed as patches transmitted between them. Quite nice.
  115. [17:24:34] <RobertBachmann> ok I've got darcs installed.
  116. [17:27:11] <fuzzyBSc> I have sent you a put of my database. If you unpack it somewhere with whatever name you choose you should be able to start using darcs commands.
  117. [17:28:10] <fuzzyBSc> You make changes to files as per usual. You do "darcs add" on new files. When you're ready to send something off you use "darcs record".
  118. [17:28:51] <fuzzyBSc> You then use "darcs send" to send, and "darcs apply" to apply patches you recieve via email.
  119. [17:29:44] <fuzzyBSc> You can also run it exposed to the internet, in which case you can use the "darcs push" and "darcs pull" methods for direct interactions.
  120. [17:40:30] <RobertBachmann> Okay I'll try to add a simple change (handling of @lang) and send it back to you.
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  123. [17:57:25] <fuzzyBSc> ok
  124. [18:02:38] <fuzzyBSc> Well, I have the title disambiguation working correctly now. Unfortunately, I have had to use an exslt function to do it.
  125. [18:02:46] <fuzzyBSc> I haven't figured out any better approach as yet.
  126. [18:04:24] <RobertBachmann> exslt is not a big problem IMO, it's supported by libxslt, msxsl and perhaps most other real-world engines around.
  127. [18:13:03] <RobertBachmann> when I type: "darcs send" it complains "darcs failed: Missing argument: [REPOSITORY]" what should I type here?
  128. [18:14:01] <fuzzyBSc> Are you running it from somewhere in the repository?
  129. [18:16:12] <fuzzyBSc> Hrmm.. actually you are supposed to identify my repo, I think.
  130. [18:18:42] <fuzzyBSc> It should theoretically be using my base repo as its starting point.
  131. [18:19:59] <fuzzyBSc> Also, you may need to check your _darcs/prefs/author file to make sure it is correct.
  132. [18:20:58] <fuzzyBSc> As near as I can tell, the name of my repo is my email address... but I'm not 100% sure on that.
  133. [18:30:27] * fuzzyBSc is consulting #darcs
  134. [18:33:09] * rtomayko (n=rtomayko@cpe-24-166-51-26.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  135. [18:34:17] <fuzzyBSc> http://darcs.net/DarcsWiki/FrequentlyAskedQuestions#head-6518424ab7ac0729e9c09d365886d22da9f5f0f4
  136. [18:34:56] <fuzzyBSc> So I need to send you a context file, so it knows which patches to send back to me :)
  137. [18:34:57] * fuzzyBSc sends
  138. [18:36:53] <fuzzyBSc> Robert: You'll have to save the file somewhere, and use --context=con_BC on the darcs send line.
  139. [18:37:00] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2427P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  141. [18:46:57] <RobertBachmann> sorry ... had a connection problem
  142. [18:54:42] <fuzzyBSc> No problem :)
  143. [18:55:09] <fuzzyBSc> I have just sent you a patch to complete the title disambiguation support.
  144. [18:55:19] <fuzzyBSc> (as per current hAtom spec)
  145. [19:08:49] <fuzzyBSc> I have put my current context file at http://members.optusnet.com.au/benjamincarlyle/benjamin/blog/darcs_hAtom_BC, and will update it when I accept new patches.
  146. [19:26:15] <fuzzyBSc> Anyway, I'm off to sleep now. Night all.
  147. [19:26:50] * fuzzyBSc (n=fuzzy@c210-49-72-91.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
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