IRC Log for #microformats on 2005-12-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  15. [04:12:09] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=3617 * FuzzyBSc * (+1658) Describe current hAtom experience
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  18. [04:52:45] <fuzzyBSc> The question of content could actually go pretty deep.
  19. [04:53:37] <fuzzyBSc> Instead of just considering the question of opaqueness, it might even be important to allow a rel=tag to say "I'm tagging the context with id="entry0001"".
  20. [04:53:57] <fuzzyBSc> s/content/context/
  21. [05:20:13] * fuzzyBSc (n=fuzzy@c210-49-73-138.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
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  23. [05:41:28] <tantek> fuzzyBsc, you can already do that with xFolk
  24. [05:42:14] <tantek> since you can tag any URL with xFolk, including a URL with a fragment identifier
  25. [05:45:47] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=3618 * FuzzyBSc * (+679) Add html title and rel-tag issues
  26. [05:47:01] * fuzzyBSc reads up on it
  27. [05:53:25] <Frederic> hello
  28. [05:53:52] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20051010]")
  29. [05:54:57] <fuzzyBSc> How would you see an overlay of hAtom and hReview?
  30. [05:55:33] <fuzzyBSc> If a hReview was contained in a hAtom content node you might want the "author" of the hAtom to apply to the hReview as "reviewer", also.
  31. [05:56:43] <fuzzyBSc> It's like you need a clear set of rules as to what an author element applies to. Is it the containing opaque microformat? Does it include opaque microformats within the containing one?
  32. [05:58:49] <fuzzyBSc> The issue may not be "how do I avoid finding microformats within mine" (opaque), but "how do I know what the microformats I find relate to? Do they apply to me, or not?"
  33. [05:59:51] <fuzzyBSc> If there is only one microformat vocabulary you can draw up rules for each element that make sense across a range of microformats. If the definition of "title" clashes, though, so would the applicable rules.
  34. [06:00:41] <fuzzyBSc> So there are really two issues here: "How do I know whether this title is the title I have a definition for?" and "How do I know this thing I understand applies to me?"
  35. [06:42:33] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78242134.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  36. [07:09:42] <factoryjoe> YYAYAYAHAHAA
  37. [07:09:46] <factoryjoe> whoa
  38. [07:09:49] <factoryjoe> wrong channel
  39. [07:09:51] <factoryjoe> haha
  40. [07:17:20] <mfbot> [[last-modified-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=last-modified-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=3619 * FuzzyBSc * (+50) Add atom updated terminology
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  45. [09:55:01] <fuzzyBSc> So, I think there are parts of hAtom that could be microformats in themselves. author is one. Author of what? Author of the enclosing mfo, which may be an atom feed or entry. It may be something else.
  46. [09:55:14] <fuzzyBSc> Published, and updated are another two.
  47. [09:56:01] <fuzzyBSc> These are generic concepts that could apply to any data on the web.
  48. [09:57:03] <fuzzyBSc> rights, category, logo, title, subtitle...
  49. [09:57:25] <fuzzyBSc> Atom is as general as publication is.
  50. [09:57:58] <fuzzyBSc> You could go two ways with that. You could break up hAtom for use in non-blog works, or you could use hAtom as grounding for future published works.
  51. [09:58:55] <fuzzyBSc> Still, it seems that concepts from hAtom could superceed some concepts in hreview or hcalendar without consuming the whole formats by any means.
  52. [10:00:05] <fuzzyBSc> If author always means "The author of its container, plus the author of any children (possibly barring quotes)", its meaning would be clear. A hAtom entry with a particular author would not need to repeat its author data for hreview.
  53. [11:21:46] * bergie wonders how technorati has changed their search RSS feeds... now my netnewswire shows all results as new item on each refresh
  54. [11:22:16] <KevinMarks> shouldn't do
  55. [11:22:49] <KevinMarks> i'm only seeng deltas
  56. [11:23:06] <KevinMarks> might be a one-off discontinuity
  57. [11:23:23] <bergie> has been happening for about a week, and with all results
  58. [11:25:18] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2426P009.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  59. [11:26:35] <RobertBachmann> hi
  60. [11:42:34] <KevinMarks> evening
  61. [11:47:13] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=3620 * RobertBachmann * (+18) Exploratory discussions - added mfoexamples
  62. [12:02:20] <mfbot> [[existing-classes]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=existing-classes&diff=0&oldid=3621 * RobertBachmann * (+70) Fixed broken links to 'hcalendar'
  63. [12:03:51] <mfbot> [[mfo-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=mfo-examples&diff=0&oldid=3622 * RobertBachmann * (+20) The Problem - Fixed wiki syntax
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  65. [12:09:32] <mfbot> [[hcard-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-issues&diff=0&oldid=3623 * RobertBachmann * (+198) Issues - Added comment about broken code
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  68. [12:38:48] <fuzzyBSc> Morning :)
  69. [12:47:57] <fuzzyBSc> On the subject of mfo: The immediate problem to solve for hAtom to keep progressing is deciding on its terminology. Should it work around thew existing terms, should its new definitions replace the old as being more generally-applicable, or should the different definitions be accepted?
  70. [12:48:24] <fuzzyBSc> That question would ideally be answered earlier rather than later in the mfo process.
  71. [12:51:17] <RobertBachmann> fuzzyBSc: hAtom2Atom.xsl: xsltproc, 4xslt, Microsoft XML 3.0/4.0/6.0*, .Net's System.Xml*, Saxon and Xalan-J passed the test. (* needed to change the URL pointed to by xmlns:exsl="") Oracle XML almost passed but always adds xmlns:xhtml and xmlns:exsl to the output's <feed>
  72. [12:53:31] <fuzzyBSc> Robert: Is it possible to detect the paser's exslt capability and use a different node-set function if it is not avilable?
  73. [12:54:35] <fuzzyBSc> So xmldiff is not able to tell that the oracle xml is equivalent, then?
  74. [13:01:37] <RobertBachmann> capabitlity detection: Yes, that should be possible. XSLT has an extension-element-avialable function. So it should be possible. However this would be like an #ifdef hell ;-) you would have to use it everytime you use node-set.
  75. [13:01:37] <RobertBachmann> I think I could implement this functionality OTOH I don't know if it's worth the effort because Microsoft and Oracle users merly need to change on string to get the stylesheet working. Maybe a comment with detailed instructions would be enough?
  76. [13:02:10] <RobertBachmann> xmldiff: No, but I think it should be possible to filter it through some programm first which replaces the superfluous namespaces in the <feed> element.
  77. [13:03:06] <fuzzyBSc> True. I guess it's a question of whether it should "just work" or not. Given special instructions on the download page (or two versions?) I wouldn't object.
  78. [13:08:45] <RobertBachmann> I'll add the instructions to the first comment of hAtom2Atom.xsl
  79. [13:23:30] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  80. [13:25:45] <RobertBachmann> fuzzyBSc: what XSLT engines do you use?
  81. [13:29:39] <fuzzyBSc> Robert: I am only using xsltproc, the gnome libxslt
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  90. [16:46:36] <Frederic> hello
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  92. [17:00:55] <RobertBachmann> fuzzyBSc: sorry had a connection problem. xsltproc, what version? Using libxml 20620CVS2538, libxslt 10114CVS1012 and libexslt 812CVS1012 on Win32
  93. [17:01:12] <RobertBachmann> s/Using/mine:/
  94. [17:13:51] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=3624 * Ragdoll * (+91) Examples in the wild -
  95. [17:18:42] <mfbot> [[process]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=3625 * Ragdoll * (-1) Iterate -
  96. [17:23:09] <fuzzyBSc> Robert: Using libxml 20622, libxslt 10115 and libexslt 812
  97. [17:23:28] <fuzzyBSc> (on debian linux)
  98. [17:24:28] <fuzzyBSc> Anyway, it's my bedtime.
  99. [17:24:30] <fuzzyBSc> Night all.
  100. [17:24:34] <RobertBachmann> night
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  117. [19:55:39] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  135. [21:50:26] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  136. [21:50:26] <jibot> tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  139. [22:39:19] <jibot> RobertBachmann is in Austria
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  142. [23:44:15] <RobertBachmann> -- mflogbot will take a short nap --
  143. [23:50:14] * mflogbot (n=PircBot@213.235.239.37) has joined #microformats
  144. [23:50:14] * Topic is 'http://jeremie.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry051212-175804 || http://www.digital-web.com/articles/microformats_primer/ | Channel is logged: http://microformats.org/wiki/mflogbot'
  145. [23:50:14] * Set by KevinMarks on Sat Dec 17 10:09:57 CET 2005
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