IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  13. [01:58:49] <bkdelong> Anyone here working with the Structured Blogging MT plugins?
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  17. [02:49:12] <jibot> factoryj1e is not factoryjoe and the result of factoryjoe trying to clone himself
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  26. [03:35:00] <jibot> factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
  27. [03:36:56] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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  33. [04:52:40] <jibot> factoryj1e is not factoryjoe and the result of factoryjoe trying to clone himself
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  41. [06:03:16] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
  42. [06:19:34] <Frederic> hi
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  67. [09:52:28] <markmansour> Hi guys... Anyone there?
  68. [09:52:43] <markmansour> I've got a question on hCalendar if anyone feels game...
  69. [09:53:22] <Frederic> ask it
  70. [09:54:44] <markmansour> Sure... I've been trying to work out the summary tag for hCalendar and I've come across 3 different ways of expressing it. 1. is from suda.co.uk where you have <a class="summary" href="xxx" title="yyy">ZZZ</a> which produces SUMMARY=ZZZ (or yyy, not sure, they look the same)
  71. [09:56:11] <markmansour> 2. is <a class="url' href="XXX"><span class="summary">YYY</span></a> where URL:XXX, SUMMARY:YYY
  72. [09:56:46] <markmansour> 3. <span class="summary"><a class="URL href="XXX">YYY</a></span> URL:XXX, SUMMARY=YYY
  73. [09:56:56] <markmansour> I'm trying to work out which one(s) are correct
  74. [09:58:08] <markmansour> I've been handling 2 pretty well.. but I don't know which is right...
  75. [10:00:27] <markmansour> I should clarify that 2. is from http://www.microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar#Example and 3 is from the attachment to this email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2006Jan/0003.html
  76. [10:00:57] <Frederic> KevinMarks: any idea?
  77. [10:01:15] <Frederic> I use the second one too actually
  78. [10:01:36] <Frederic> But it does not mean it's the good one
  79. [10:02:19] <markmansour> it seems to me that 3. says that the summary has a uri and not the vevent..
  80. [10:02:45] <markmansour> 1. seems a bit strange. like there is too much info being conveyed in the anchor, but I could see it being ok
  81. [10:03:31] <markmansour> and 2 is the easiest to parse, so I like that one :)
  82. [10:03:57] <KevinMarks> 1. is legit - the span is a bit redundant if you have an <a>
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  84. [10:04:51] <markmansour> Kevin: I haven't written a vcard parser, but does this follow vcard or another format?
  85. [10:08:13] <markmansour> I guess I would like to know if anyone thinks 3 is valid, if it isn't I can kill that example and move right on (which would be nice)
  86. [10:11:13] <KevinMarks> I think it is valid,, but a little annoying, but I'd defer to tantek and suda on that
  87. [10:13:02] <markmansour> sure. I'll drop an email to the list
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  90. [11:39:58] <markmansour> Kevin, I posted a more refined version of the qn to the mailing list. Looking forward to your reply :)
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  94. [12:31:36] <jibot> rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
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  99. [15:25:37] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
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  101. [15:37:34] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  102. [15:37:34] <jibot> tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  104. [15:54:50] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego and a college student studying to supplement web scripting skills with an understanding of interactive design. and is on hiatus until March to find work in the Dallas area.
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  107. [17:56:18] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  111. [18:24:10] <jibot> factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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  114. [19:06:18] <pnhChris> anyone have a minute or two to look over some sample markup and let me know if they see anything wrong or have suggestions on a few microformat examples? http://placenamehere.com/temp/mf_markup.html
  115. [19:10:35] * TheMaecenati (n=TheMaece@dsl081-056-047.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  116. [19:14:58] <tantek> hi chris
  117. [19:16:00] <pnhChris> hola tantek
  118. [19:16:38] * tantek viewing source now
  119. [19:16:45] <pnhChris> much thanks
  120. [19:16:50] <pnhChris> get my mail the other day?
  121. [19:16:57] <tantek> your dtstart needs title="20060310"
  122. [19:17:40] <tantek> your dtend needs title="20060320", due to the way dtend works
  123. [19:17:48] <tantek> not sure
  124. [19:17:53] <tantek> i get too much email :/
  125. [19:17:56] <pnhChris> np
  126. [19:18:07] <tantek> i try to eventually get around to it ;)
  127. [19:18:56] <tantek> the rest of your mf_markup.html looks good
  128. [19:20:10] * TantekC (n=Tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
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  130. [19:20:28] <pnhChris> question on the end date...
  131. [19:21:21] <pnhChris> form the examples and docs i couldn't tell if the human readable form should match the exclusion of the dtend, or read like one would normally write it
  132. [19:23:01] <TantekC> see the first example in hCalendar
  133. [19:24:04] * bewest|symphony convinced churchzip.com to use hcard in the google maps interface version of the site
  134. [19:24:55] <pnhChris> so it should match.. gotcha...
  135. [19:25:01] <pnhChris> just seemed.. i dunno
  136. [19:25:06] <pnhChris> made me scratch my head
  137. [19:25:21] <TantekC> huh
  138. [19:26:00] <pnhChris> oh.. first example on spec pagem not example page
  139. [19:26:02] <TantekC> when you say "it should match", what do you mean?
  140. [19:26:17] <TantekC> yes
  141. [19:26:30] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@static-70-107-229-33.ny325.east.verizon.net) Quit (Success)
  142. [19:26:48] <TantekC> they match when you specify a precise end date AND time
  143. [19:27:03] <pnhChris> thats where the confusion was coming in
  144. [19:27:07] <TantekC> because the meaning of that is that when that time is reached the event is over
  145. [19:27:13] <TantekC> however, when you only specify a date
  146. [19:27:36] <TantekC> the meaning of that FOR HUMANS is NOT that when that date is reached the event is over
  147. [19:27:39] * pnhChris nods
  148. [19:27:54] <TantekC> the meaning is, that when that date is reached, the event is over AT THE END OF THAT DAY
  149. [19:31:21] <bewest|symphony> anyone have success at getting outlook to publish to the web in conjunction with using hcalendar or hcard?
  150. [19:40:59] <pnhChris> TantekC: thanks... got the dtend sorted now... the dtstart value being wrong was just an entry error
  151. [19:42:47] <TantekC> i figured :)
  152. [19:59:35] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  153. [19:59:35] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  161. [20:31:09] <_fil_> hi, do you know where I can find the RFC that says that after a POST, when you receive a "Location" header, you should GET the resource from that localtion (and not POST again) ?
  162. [20:33:31] <bewest|symphony> _fil_: I thought the behaviour was to continute the POST, but drop the payload
  163. [20:33:39] <bewest|symphony> _fil_: and anyway, that would be the HTTP spec
  164. [20:35:00] <_fil_> RFC 1945 says that to redirect with a GET is a common error
  165. [20:35:00] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  166. [20:35:00] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
  167. [20:36:24] <bewest|symphony> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616.html
  168. [20:37:17] <_fil_> this I know, but I can't find the precise information
  169. [20:37:23] <_fil_> the best there is is http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec9.html#sec9.5
  170. [20:37:45] <_fil_> "If a resource has been created on the origin server, the response SHOULD be 201 (Created) and contain an entity which describes the status of the request and refers to the new resource, and a Location header"
  171. [20:40:02] <bewest|symphony> see section 10.3
  172. [20:40:18] <bewest|symphony> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html#sec10.3
  173. [20:40:38] <bewest|symphony> The action required MAY be carried out by the user agent without interaction with the user if and only if the method used in the second request is GET or HEAD.
  174. [20:41:26] <bewest|symphony> If the 301 status code is received in response to a request other than GET or HEAD, the user agent MUST NOT automatically redirect the request unless it can be confirmed by the user, since this might change the conditions under which the request was issued.
  175. [20:41:34] <bewest|symphony> Note: When automatically redirecting a POST request after receiving a 301 status code, some existing HTTP/1.0 user agents will erroneously change it into a GET request.
  176. [20:43:19] * bewest|symphony wonders why UA's don't ask to POST to the new URI instead of discarding it by default
  177. [20:45:56] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Excess Flood)
  178. [20:46:16] <_fil_> ok, I think it's 303 that's really intended here
  179. [20:46:28] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  180. [20:46:49] <bewest|symphony> it appears to me that all 30x codes have that same note
  181. [20:46:58] <_fil_> but since it's not understood by all UA, we'll use 302, and it's ok if they GET
  182. [20:47:10] <_fil_> no, not the same, 303 has a different one :)
  183. [20:47:36] <_fil_> I think it answers my question
  184. [20:47:41] <_fil_> it still is fuzzy
  185. [20:48:44] <bewest|symphony> oh neat
  186. [20:48:45] <bewest|symphony> so...
  187. [20:48:49] <bewest|symphony> 303 is an exception
  188. [20:49:03] <bewest|symphony> technically you are allowed to rePOST to a 303 specified URI?
  189. [20:49:33] <bewest|symphony> I wonder if it's true that most UA's don't grok 303
  190. [20:49:43] <bewest|symphony> this document was last edited...
  191. [20:50:05] <bewest|symphony> 2001?
  192. [20:50:52] * joepierce (n=joe@static-70-107-229-33.ny325.east.verizon.net) Quit ()
  193. [20:57:28] <_fil_> it seems that after a 303 you have to GET
  194. [20:58:00] <_fil_> anyway... this is unclear, ffuzzy, and poorly written
  195. [20:58:12] <_fil_> I'm sure someone must have phrased it properly somewhere :)
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  199. [21:08:13] <bewest|symphony> _fil_: perhaps the thing to do is set up a test case to see what UA's actually do with a 303
  200. [21:08:54] <bewest|symphony> perhaps modern UA's handle it "correctly" whatever that is; if they all do exactly the same thing, then that would suggest they all follow a standardized (and presumably correct) method
  201. [21:10:52] <_fil_> I'm not *that* motivated :)
  202. [21:11:15] <_fil_> I just needed some RFC to convince a friend
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  206. [21:18:19] <jibot> factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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  213. [21:56:42] <pnhChris> fyi... microformat tags plugin for textpattern: http://placenamehere.com/article/137/IntroducingTheTextpatternMicroformatPlugin
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  219. [22:25:49] <jibot> factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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  221. [22:29:14] <TantekC> that's awesome chris!
  222. [22:29:19] <TantekC> pnhChris that is
  223. [22:29:27] <factoryjoe> heh
  224. [22:30:00] <TantekC> could you add it to hCard and hCalendar specs under "Implementations" and to the "xfn-implementations" page?
  225. [22:30:22] <TantekC> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Implementations
  226. [22:30:34] <TantekC> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar#Implementations
  227. [22:30:51] <TantekC> http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-implementations
  228. [22:32:00] <pnhChris> yeah.. i can get to it in a bit
  229. [22:32:08] <pnhChris> wiki registration is open?
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  232. [22:34:01] <TantekC> yes
  233. [22:34:09] <TantekC> you just have to pick a WikiWord name
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  243. [23:03:41] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
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