IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:58:49] <bkdelong>
Anyone here working with the Structured Blogging MT plugins?
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- [02:49:12] <jibot>
factoryj1e is not factoryjoe and the result of factoryjoe trying to clone himself
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- [03:35:00] <jibot>
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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- [04:52:40] <jibot>
factoryj1e is not factoryjoe and the result of factoryjoe trying to clone himself
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- [06:03:16] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
- [06:19:34] <Frederic>
hi
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- [09:52:28] <markmansour>
Hi guys... Anyone there?
- [09:52:43] <markmansour>
I've got a question on hCalendar if anyone feels game...
- [09:53:22] <Frederic>
ask it
- [09:54:44] <markmansour>
Sure... I've been trying to work out the summary tag for hCalendar and I've come across 3 different ways of expressing it. 1. is from suda.co.uk where you have <a class="summary" href="xxx" title="yyy">ZZZ</a> which produces SUMMARY=ZZZ (or yyy, not sure, they look the same)
- [09:56:11] <markmansour>
2. is <a class="url' href="XXX"><span class="summary">YYY</span></a> where URL:XXX, SUMMARY:YYY
- [09:56:46] <markmansour>
3. <span class="summary"><a class="URL href="XXX">YYY</a></span> URL:XXX, SUMMARY=YYY
- [09:56:56] <markmansour>
I'm trying to work out which one(s) are correct
- [09:58:08] <markmansour>
I've been handling 2 pretty well.. but I don't know which is right...
- [10:00:27] <markmansour>
I should clarify that 2. is from http://www.microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar#Example and 3 is from the attachment to this email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-calendar/2006Jan/0003.html
- [10:00:57] <Frederic>
KevinMarks: any idea?
- [10:01:15] <Frederic>
I use the second one too actually
- [10:01:36] <Frederic>
But it does not mean it's the good one
- [10:02:19] <markmansour>
it seems to me that 3. says that the summary has a uri and not the vevent..
- [10:02:45] <markmansour>
1. seems a bit strange. like there is too much info being conveyed in the anchor, but I could see it being ok
- [10:03:31] <markmansour>
and 2 is the easiest to parse, so I like that one :)
- [10:03:57] <KevinMarks>
1. is legit - the span is a bit redundant if you have an <a>
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- [10:04:51] <markmansour>
Kevin: I haven't written a vcard parser, but does this follow vcard or another format?
- [10:08:13] <markmansour>
I guess I would like to know if anyone thinks 3 is valid, if it isn't I can kill that example and move right on (which would be nice)
- [10:11:13] <KevinMarks>
I think it is valid,, but a little annoying, but I'd defer to tantek and suda on that
- [10:13:02] <markmansour>
sure. I'll drop an email to the list
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- [11:39:58] <markmansour>
Kevin, I posted a more refined version of the qn to the mailing list. Looking forward to your reply :)
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- [12:31:36] <jibot>
rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
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- [15:25:37] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
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- [15:37:34] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [15:54:50] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego and a college student studying to supplement web scripting skills with an understanding of interactive design. and is on hiatus until March to find work in the Dallas area.
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- [17:56:18] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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- [18:24:10] <jibot>
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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- [19:06:18] <pnhChris>
anyone have a minute or two to look over some sample markup and let me know if they see anything wrong or have suggestions on a few microformat examples? http://placenamehere.com/temp/mf_markup.html
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- [19:14:58] <tantek>
hi chris
- [19:16:00] <pnhChris>
hola tantek
- [19:16:38] * tantek viewing source now
- [19:16:45] <pnhChris>
much thanks
- [19:16:50] <pnhChris>
get my mail the other day?
- [19:16:57] <tantek>
your dtstart needs title="20060310"
- [19:17:40] <tantek>
your dtend needs title="20060320", due to the way dtend works
- [19:17:48] <tantek>
not sure
- [19:17:53] <tantek>
i get too much email :/
- [19:17:56] <pnhChris>
np
- [19:18:07] <tantek>
i try to eventually get around to it ;)
- [19:18:56] <tantek>
the rest of your mf_markup.html looks good
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- [19:20:28] <pnhChris>
question on the end date...
- [19:21:21] <pnhChris>
form the examples and docs i couldn't tell if the human readable form should match the exclusion of the dtend, or read like one would normally write it
- [19:23:01] <TantekC>
see the first example in hCalendar
- [19:24:04] * bewest|symphony convinced churchzip.com to use hcard in the google maps interface version of the site
- [19:24:55] <pnhChris>
so it should match.. gotcha...
- [19:25:01] <pnhChris>
just seemed.. i dunno
- [19:25:06] <pnhChris>
made me scratch my head
- [19:25:21] <TantekC>
huh
- [19:26:00] <pnhChris>
oh.. first example on spec pagem not example page
- [19:26:02] <TantekC>
when you say "it should match", what do you mean?
- [19:26:17] <TantekC>
yes
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- [19:26:48] <TantekC>
they match when you specify a precise end date AND time
- [19:27:03] <pnhChris>
thats where the confusion was coming in
- [19:27:07] <TantekC>
because the meaning of that is that when that time is reached the event is over
- [19:27:13] <TantekC>
however, when you only specify a date
- [19:27:36] <TantekC>
the meaning of that FOR HUMANS is NOT that when that date is reached the event is over
- [19:27:39] * pnhChris nods
- [19:27:54] <TantekC>
the meaning is, that when that date is reached, the event is over AT THE END OF THAT DAY
- [19:31:21] <bewest|symphony>
anyone have success at getting outlook to publish to the web in conjunction with using hcalendar or hcard?
- [19:40:59] <pnhChris>
TantekC: thanks... got the dtend sorted now... the dtstart value being wrong was just an entry error
- [19:42:47] <TantekC>
i figured :)
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- [19:59:35] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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- [20:31:09] <_fil_>
hi, do you know where I can find the RFC that says that after a POST, when you receive a "Location" header, you should GET the resource from that localtion (and not POST again) ?
- [20:33:31] <bewest|symphony>
_fil_: I thought the behaviour was to continute the POST, but drop the payload
- [20:33:39] <bewest|symphony>
_fil_: and anyway, that would be the HTTP spec
- [20:35:00] <_fil_>
RFC 1945 says that to redirect with a GET is a common error
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- [20:35:00] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
- [20:36:24] <bewest|symphony>
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616.html
- [20:37:17] <_fil_>
this I know, but I can't find the precise information
- [20:37:23] <_fil_>
the best there is is http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec9.html#sec9.5
- [20:37:45] <_fil_>
"If a resource has been created on the origin server, the response SHOULD be 201 (Created) and contain an entity which describes the status of the request and refers to the new resource, and a Location header"
- [20:40:02] <bewest|symphony>
see section 10.3
- [20:40:18] <bewest|symphony>
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html#sec10.3
- [20:40:38] <bewest|symphony>
The action required MAY be carried out by the user agent without interaction with the user if and only if the method used in the second request is GET or HEAD.
- [20:41:26] <bewest|symphony>
If the 301 status code is received in response to a request other than GET or HEAD, the user agent MUST NOT automatically redirect the request unless it can be confirmed by the user, since this might change the conditions under which the request was issued.
- [20:41:34] <bewest|symphony>
Note: When automatically redirecting a POST request after receiving a 301 status code, some existing HTTP/1.0 user agents will erroneously change it into a GET request.
- [20:43:19] * bewest|symphony wonders why UA's don't ask to POST to the new URI instead of discarding it by default
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- [20:46:16] <_fil_>
ok, I think it's 303 that's really intended here
- [20:46:28] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
- [20:46:49] <bewest|symphony>
it appears to me that all 30x codes have that same note
- [20:46:58] <_fil_>
but since it's not understood by all UA, we'll use 302, and it's ok if they GET
- [20:47:10] <_fil_>
no, not the same, 303 has a different one :)
- [20:47:36] <_fil_>
I think it answers my question
- [20:47:41] <_fil_>
it still is fuzzy
- [20:48:44] <bewest|symphony>
oh neat
- [20:48:45] <bewest|symphony>
so...
- [20:48:49] <bewest|symphony>
303 is an exception
- [20:49:03] <bewest|symphony>
technically you are allowed to rePOST to a 303 specified URI?
- [20:49:33] <bewest|symphony>
I wonder if it's true that most UA's don't grok 303
- [20:49:43] <bewest|symphony>
this document was last edited...
- [20:50:05] <bewest|symphony>
2001?
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- [20:57:28] <_fil_>
it seems that after a 303 you have to GET
- [20:58:00] <_fil_>
anyway... this is unclear, ffuzzy, and poorly written
- [20:58:12] <_fil_>
I'm sure someone must have phrased it properly somewhere :)
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- [21:08:13] <bewest|symphony>
_fil_: perhaps the thing to do is set up a test case to see what UA's actually do with a 303
- [21:08:54] <bewest|symphony>
perhaps modern UA's handle it "correctly" whatever that is; if they all do exactly the same thing, then that would suggest they all follow a standardized (and presumably correct) method
- [21:10:52] <_fil_>
I'm not *that* motivated :)
- [21:11:15] <_fil_>
I just needed some RFC to convince a friend
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factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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- [21:56:42] <pnhChris>
fyi... microformat tags plugin for textpattern: http://placenamehere.com/article/137/IntroducingTheTextpatternMicroformatPlugin
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- [22:25:49] <jibot>
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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- [22:29:14] <TantekC>
that's awesome chris!
- [22:29:19] <TantekC>
pnhChris that is
- [22:29:27] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:30:00] <TantekC>
could you add it to hCard and hCalendar specs under "Implementations" and to the "xfn-implementations" page?
- [22:30:22] <TantekC>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Implementations
- [22:30:34] <TantekC>
http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar#Implementations
- [22:30:51] <TantekC>
http://microformats.org/wiki/xfn-implementations
- [22:32:00] <pnhChris>
yeah.. i can get to it in a bit
- [22:32:08] <pnhChris>
wiki registration is open?
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- [22:34:01] <TantekC>
yes
- [22:34:09] <TantekC>
you just have to pick a WikiWord name
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- [23:03:41] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
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