IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:12] <bkdelong> Say I mention my city, Salem, in a blog posting. Would I need to give the entire paragraph an "adr" class and then use span = locality around the city name? Can it be that disconnected? Or do we need to include more contextuality?
  2. [00:27:07] * TantekC (n=Tantek@ppp-71-139-22-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
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  6. [00:30:28] <TantekC> greetings
  7. [00:31:21] <TantekC> i've flickrd the whiteboard hResume brainstorming results between James Levin (of SimplyHired), Ryan King, and myself
  8. [00:31:44] <TantekC> http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/87059139/in/photostream/
  9. [00:32:15] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  10. [00:33:30] <bkdelong> damn....did I miss anyone answering my question?
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  19. [02:48:20] <jibot> rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
  20. [03:10:06] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  21. [03:10:06] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
  22. [03:59:33] <kingryan> hey bkdelong
  23. [03:59:41] <kingryan> you had a question earlier, no?
  24. [04:05:09] * TheMaecenati (n=TheMaece@dsl081-056-047.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  25. [04:29:58] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.71.195.bbplus.ptn-ag2.dyn.plus.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  26. [04:47:38] * TantekC (n=Tantek@ppp-71-139-22-46.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  27. [05:13:56] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@adsl-072-148-043-048.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20051010]")
  28. [05:16:09] * karlUshi (n=karl@tea06.w3.mag.keio.ac.jp) has joined #microformats
  29. [05:16:09] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
  30. [05:16:21] <karlUshi> meuh
  31. [05:17:16] <karlUshi> <span class="cow" xml:lang="fr">meuh</span>
  32. [05:34:03] <kingryan> <cite>cow</cite> ?
  33. [05:35:03] <bewest|symphony> <q class="bovine" xml:lang="fr">meuh</q> ?
  34. [05:40:23] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@pcp09800352pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
  35. [06:02:39] <karlUshi> I don't cite myself ;) often :p
  36. [06:08:57] <kingryan> there's nothing wrong with citing yourself
  37. [06:30:01] <Frederic> hi
  38. [06:33:59] <karlUshi> http://www.parm.net/web2.0/
  39. [06:34:27] <Frederic> hahaha
  40. [06:48:48] <kingryan> nice karlUshi
  41. [07:05:00] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  43. [07:10:08] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  52. [13:29:40] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com)
  53. [14:02:52] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  54. [14:02:52] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
  55. [14:05:53] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4144 * ManoMano * (+434)
  56. [14:06:09] <mfbot> [[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=4145 * ManoMano * (+433)
  57. [14:06:45] <mfbot> [[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4146 * ManoMano * (+432)
  58. [14:06:51] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4147 * ManoMano * (+434)
  59. [14:07:02] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4148 * ManoMano * (+434)
  60. [14:07:13] <mfbot> [[introduction]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=4149 * ManoMano * (+436)
  61. [14:07:24] <mfbot> [[process]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=4150 * ManoMano * (+435)
  62. [14:07:55] <mfbot> [[naming-conventions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-conventions&diff=0&oldid=4151 * ManoMano * (+435)
  63. [14:07:59] <dglazkov> uh oh. We've got a spammer
  64. [14:08:21] <mfbot> [[adr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4152 * ManoMano * (+435)
  65. [14:08:34] <dglazkov> somebody ban the bastard
  66. [14:16:01] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) has joined #microformats
  67. [14:16:18] <bkdelong> Morning all.
  68. [14:16:22] <bkdelong> Question - Say I mention my city, Salem, in a blog posting. Would I need to give the entire paragraph an "adr" class and then use span = locality around the city name? Can it be that disconnected? Or do we need to include more contextuality?
  69. [14:21:16] <dglazkov> I don't think the spec prohibits that
  70. [14:21:28] <dglazkov> but why would you want to do that?
  71. [14:21:53] * rtomayko (n=rtomayko@cpe-24-166-51-26.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #microformats
  72. [14:21:53] <jibot> rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
  73. [14:45:35] * markmansour (n=markmans@dsl-202-173-156-87.vic.westnet.com.au) Quit ()
  74. [14:46:46] * bewest|wor1 (n=bewest@pcp0011022684pcs.midltn01.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  75. [15:00:34] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  76. [15:03:30] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  77. [15:04:35] <bkdelong> dglazkov: Why not? I mean, if we're going to contextualize bits and pieces why not go ahead and contextualize as much as possible.
  78. [15:06:17] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-170.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #Microformats
  79. [15:06:17] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego and a college student studying to supplement web scripting skills with an understanding of interactive design. and is on hiatus until March to find work in the Dallas area.
  80. [15:09:45] <dglazkov> bkdelong: why not contextualize the whole blog, then? :) I guess what I am getting at is the precision of context
  81. [15:10:26] * bewest|wor1 is now known as bewest|work
  82. [15:12:29] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4153 * Emiliano * (+179) Implementations -
  83. [15:12:52] <bkdelong> I probably would contextualize the whole blog if there was a microformat that was relevant to each bit of text. ;)
  84. [15:15:56] <bkdelong> I guess it all comes down to whether the spec says it's OK to use individual microformat class values for things like a State or someone's Firstname
  85. [15:17:05] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4154 * Emiliano * (+101) Implementations -
  86. [15:18:31] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4155 * Emiliano * (+7) Implementations -
  87. [15:22:54] * rtomayko (n=rtomayko@cpe-24-166-51-26.neo.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  88. [15:36:15] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2506P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  89. [15:36:15] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann (Timezone: 0100)
  90. [15:42:40] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2506P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  91. [15:53:20] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
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  93. [16:13:38] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:ManoMano" with an expiry time of infinite: spammer
  94. [16:14:44] <mfbot> [[adr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4156 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Cgriego
  95. [16:14:50] <mfbot> [[naming-conventions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-conventions&diff=0&oldid=4157 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
  96. [16:14:51] <mfbot> [[process]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=4158 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Serginandr
  97. [16:14:57] <mfbot> [[introduction]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=4159 * Tantek * (-436) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
  98. [16:14:58] <mfbot> [[press]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4160 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
  99. [16:14:59] <mfbot> [[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4161 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by DavidJanes
  100. [16:15:05] <mfbot> [[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4162 * Tantek * (-432) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
  101. [16:15:06] <mfbot> [[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=4163 * Tantek * (-433) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
  102. [16:15:07] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4164 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
  103. [16:28:28] <tantek> spam should be all cleared out. if you see any more, please point it out. thanks!
  104. [16:31:05] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@pcp09800352pcs.union01.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  105. [16:32:47] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  106. [16:32:47] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  107. [16:36:33] <dglazkov> tantek, if you want you can set me as admin on wiki. While I am quite lazy to do anything useful, I will fend off the spammers
  108. [17:03:11] <tantek> dglazkov, i will definitely take your offer seriously. let me get back to you on that.
  109. [17:03:21] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  110. [17:03:21] <dglazkov> np
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  113. [17:22:30] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4165 * ChrisCasciano * (+239) hCard -
  114. [17:23:46] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4166 * ChrisCasciano * (+243) hCalendar -
  115. [17:39:27] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  117. [17:39:57] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  118. [17:39:57] <jibot> tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  119. [17:43:04] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) has joined #microformats
  120. [18:36:50] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  121. [18:36:50] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  122. [18:37:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  123. [18:46:38] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  124. [18:46:38] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  125. [18:48:38] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
  126. [19:04:48] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  127. [19:13:21] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  128. [19:13:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  129. [19:13:21] <jibot> tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  130. [19:17:41] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  131. [19:17:41] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
  132. [19:17:58] <tantek> bk, you still at ApacheCon?
  133. [19:18:24] <bkdelong> apparently.
  134. [19:18:28] <bkdelong> heh. I need to remember how to reprogram jibot.
  135. [19:18:50] <tantek> ?forget bkdelong is at ApacheCon
  136. [19:18:50] <jibot> I did not know bkdelong was at ApacheCon
  137. [19:19:06] <tantek> ?forget bkdelong
  138. [19:19:06] <jibot> I need at least 3 words with an 'is' in the middle
  139. [19:19:07] <bkdelong> thanks.
  140. [19:20:15] <tantek> ?forgetme bkdelong
  141. [19:20:15] <jibot> I have expunged tantek from my mind
  142. [19:20:33] <tantek> hmm...
  143. [19:20:48] <tantek> ?def tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  144. [19:20:49] <jibot> tantek is Tantek --elik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  145. [19:20:56] <tantek> sigh
  146. [19:21:03] <tantek> ?forgetme
  147. [19:21:03] <jibot> I have expunged tantek from my mind
  148. [19:21:12] <bkdelong> ?forgetme
  149. [19:21:12] <jibot> I have expunged bkdelong from my mind
  150. [19:21:35] <tantek> ?def bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
  151. [19:21:35] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
  152. [19:23:18] <bkdelong> Is there info on using jibot in the wiki?
  153. [19:23:47] <tantek> ?def tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  154. [19:23:48] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  155. [19:24:05] <tantek> ?help
  156. [19:24:57] <tantek> bkdelong, just type ?help by itself and jibot will help you out in a private message session
  157. [19:25:14] <bkdelong> kee-doke.
  158. [19:26:39] <bkdelong> ?help
  159. [19:35:40] <dglazkov> how do you pronounce letter Ç?
  160. [19:37:55] <bewest|work> "suh"
  161. [19:38:04] <bewest|work> the s in "soft"
  162. [19:38:42] <dglazkov> interesting.
  163. [19:39:30] <kingryan> dglazkov, in the case of tantek's name, its not "suh," its "chuh"
  164. [19:39:39] <bewest|work> really?
  165. [19:39:41] <kingryan> (turkish, not french)
  166. [19:39:43] <bewest|work> that's fascinating
  167. [19:39:58] * bewest|work wonders how many applicants have applied for that technorati job
  168. [19:40:00] <bewest|work> web dev
  169. [19:40:03] <kingryan> a few
  170. [19:40:07] <kingryan> you interested?
  171. [19:40:12] <bewest|work> yeah
  172. [19:40:17] <bewest|work> very
  173. [19:40:30] <kingryan> you have a resume online?
  174. [19:40:53] <bewest|work> http://siliconllama.com/resume.txt
  175. [19:41:10] <bewest|work> (there are a few minor modifications I don't believe have been uploaded)
  176. [19:41:21] <bewest|work> very minor edits
  177. [19:42:16] <tantek> bewest, while I certainly appreciate your interest in the technorati job, that discussion is probably more appropriate for the #technorati channel. thanks!
  178. [19:42:24] <bewest|work> sure
  179. [19:46:56] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4167 * Tantek * (+164) community marks
  180. [19:47:07] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  181. [19:47:49] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit ()
  182. [19:49:17] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4168 * Tantek * (+47) Other Thoughts About Résumé Formats -
  183. [19:52:03] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=4169 * Tantek * (+66) Resume Formats -
  184. [19:57:39] <mfbot> [[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4170 * Tantek * (+192) reorganize a bit, add links, brainstorming image
  185. [19:58:36] <bkdelong> Anyone know any developers on LinkedIn? The resume format would be perfect for it.
  186. [19:58:54] <bewest|work> don't forget guru.com publishes resumes as well
  187. [19:59:30] <kingryan> bkdelong, I think linkedin works with simplyhired, who are already working on the resume microformat stuff
  188. [19:59:41] <kingryan> but, yeah, they would be a great candidate
  189. [19:59:59] <kingryan> though, once we have a microformat, there'd be less need for putting all your details into their data silo
  190. [20:00:30] <mfbot> [[resume-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=4171 * Tantek * (-108)
  191. [20:01:01] <bkdelong> I'm looking at OutPutThis as a possibility to cross-polinate Social Networks
  192. [20:01:06] <mfbot> [[resume-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=4172 * Tantek * (+222)
  193. [20:01:19] <kingryan> that'd be cool
  194. [20:01:21] <bkdelong> Type once propagate everywhere.
  195. [20:01:37] <mfbot> [[resume-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=4173 * Tantek * (-53)
  196. [20:01:48] <pnhChris> oreilly's job network/friendster/linkedin clone is out there two, though i'd have to log in and see exactly how and what they present
  197. [20:02:05] <bkdelong> Well, updating all of them is a PITA - LinkedIn, Ryze, Friendster, Tribe, Orkut, Yahoo 360....
  198. [20:02:24] <bkdelong> pnhChris: Where?
  199. [20:02:24] <kingryan> yeah, its much easier to just blog stuff :D
  200. [20:03:03] <kingryan> pnhChris, http://connection.oreilly.com/ ?
  201. [20:03:13] <pnhChris> yeah, something like that
  202. [20:03:14] <tantek> bewest, if you can find a link on guru.com to an actual resume, please add it to microformats.org/wiki/resume-examples
  203. [20:03:26] <pnhChris> yeah.. taht one kingryan
  204. [20:04:16] <pnhChris> not sure if its going anywhere.. kinda signed up and rarely went back
  205. [20:04:27] <kingryan> yeah, it doesn't seem to have any momentum yet
  206. [20:05:13] <bewest|work> tantek: I believe those links are hidden behind authentication
  207. [20:07:08] <pnhChris> guess the oreilly thing is still invite only
  208. [20:07:38] <bkdelong> Are you looking for examples that are marked up already or ones to shoot for?
  209. [20:13:03] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) has joined #microformats
  210. [20:13:10] <pnhChris> (pm me an email addy if anyone wants an invite to that thing)
  211. [20:13:23] <kingryan> I'm already in
  212. [20:13:26] <bkdelong> Ditto
  213. [20:13:48] <bkdelong> Wonder if Rael or someone would be willing to Microformat the fields
  214. [20:14:28] <bewest|work> invite to what thing?
  215. [20:14:37] <bkdelong> O'Reilly Connection
  216. [20:29:52] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-74-125.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  217. [20:29:53] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  218. [20:47:44] <bewest|work> hmm /msg only works if you identify?
  219. [20:48:07] <bewest|work> did kingryan or pnhChris get my earlier messages?
  220. [20:49:10] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  221. [20:50:10] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  222. [20:50:40] <pnhChris> no i didn't see anything
  223. [20:52:02] <bewest|work> still nothing?
  224. [20:52:13] * bewest|work is confused
  225. [20:52:14] <bkdelong> ?
  226. [20:53:16] <bewest|work> maybe it's a gaim bug or something
  227. [20:53:33] <pnhChris> maybe i saw your last two.. did you not see my replies?
  228. [20:53:42] <bewest|work> no
  229. [20:55:11] <pnhChris> (sent btw)
  230. [20:55:26] <bewest|work> thanks
  231. [20:59:15] <bewest|work> sorry for the repeated messages then
  232. [21:00:08] <bewest|work> wow I like it
  233. [21:03:55] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  234. [21:13:42] * bewest|work (n=bewest@pcp0011022684pcs.midltn01.nj.comcast.net) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  235. [21:18:59] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) Quit ()
  236. [21:32:46] * kingryan_ (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  237. [21:42:59] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  238. [21:50:38] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  239. [22:01:05] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.69.1 [Firefox 1.5/2005111116]")
  240. [22:05:42] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-74-125.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit ("Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/")
  241. [22:14:27] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  242. [22:34:03] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  243. [22:34:03] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
  244. [22:51:46] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  245. [22:51:47] <jibot> factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
  246. [23:07:42] <bkdelong> Nice idea for User Profiles, Chris
  247. [23:08:24] <bkdelong> It can be applied at/to all those social networks out there.
  248. [23:08:45] <bkdelong> er factoryjoe, I mean ;)
  249. [23:12:48] <factoryjoe> heh
  250. [23:12:50] <factoryjoe> ;)
  251. [23:12:53] <factoryjoe> thx
  252. [23:12:56] <factoryjoe> yeah well i'm doing a project called rhyzomatic
  253. [23:13:00] <factoryjoe> which will be hcarded up the wazoo
  254. [23:13:06] <factoryjoe> but i need a way to link to one's photos...
  255. [23:13:12] <factoryjoe> i.e. rel=photos
  256. [23:13:22] <factoryjoe> or rel=tasklist (for 43things etc)
  257. [23:13:25] <factoryjoe> rel=favorites
  258. [23:13:29] <bkdelong> ooh Flickr aps
  259. [23:13:46] <factoryjoe> btw, flickr will likely be getting totally hcarded soon
  260. [23:13:53] <bkdelong> sweet
  261. [23:16:01] <factoryjoe> (among other things)
  262. [23:16:02] <factoryjoe> ;)
  263. [23:16:07] <factoryjoe> (microformatted related)
  264. [23:16:14] <bkdelong> right. fab
  265. [23:16:32] <factoryjoe> gunna be huge for flock
  266. [23:16:43] <factoryjoe> we'll be able to derive your address book from webpages *you visit*
  267. [23:16:57] <bkdelong> wonder when we'll be able to search Google/Yahoo via fields
  268. [23:17:32] <bkdelong> use extra fields to narrow search...etc
  269. [23:22:48] <factoryjoe> hmm
  270. [23:22:52] <factoryjoe> well, you'll be able to do it in flock first
  271. [23:23:02] <factoryjoe> on both your feeds (read and unread) and any pages you've visited
  272. [23:24:02] <tantek> factoryjoe, what do you mean by "but i need a way to link to one's photos..."
  273. [23:24:04] <bkdelong> Nice.....going to check Flock and Ryzomatic out.
  274. [23:24:09] <tantek> class="url" gives you that in hCard
  275. [23:24:25] <bkdelong> I don't think that's specific enough, though
  276. [23:24:28] <kingryan_> and what about xfn's rel="me" ?
  277. [23:24:33] <bkdelong> Unless you can qualify it with title or something
  278. [23:24:35] <tantek> bk, why?
  279. [23:24:36] * kingryan_ is now known as kingryan
  280. [23:24:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  281. [23:25:03] <kingryan> <a href="http://flickr.com/photos/ryansking" title="my photos" rel="me"/>my photos</a>
  282. [23:25:16] <bkdelong> ah
  283. [23:25:26] <kingryan> seems sufficient to me
  284. [23:25:36] <tantek> agreed
  285. [23:25:38] <bkdelong> That seems more like it....unless Chris is thinking of something else.
  286. [23:25:55] <factoryjoe> it's not
  287. [23:25:59] <factoryjoe> sufficient
  288. [23:26:02] <factoryjoe> here's why
  289. [23:26:03] <tantek> or are you (the in general you) proposing some sort of taxonomy of *types* of urls, like "my photos", "my blog", "my favorites" etc.?
  290. [23:26:13] <factoryjoe> tantek, correct
  291. [23:26:16] <factoryjoe> we'll use rel=me
  292. [23:26:19] <tantek> then you're making a big mistake
  293. [23:26:25] <factoryjoe> and we'll use class=url
  294. [23:26:30] <factoryjoe> um?
  295. [23:26:30] <tantek> because such a taxonomy is a design-rat-hole
  296. [23:26:32] <factoryjoe> no
  297. [23:26:33] <tantek> or pit
  298. [23:26:35] <tantek> yep
  299. [23:26:38] <tantek> it quickly becomes obsolete
  300. [23:26:50] <tantek> as if you could possibly document all types of urls
  301. [23:26:54] <tantek> at a point in time
  302. [23:26:55] <factoryjoe> fine fine
  303. [23:26:55] <factoryjoe> ok
  304. [23:26:58] <tantek> next year a new type comes out
  305. [23:27:00] <factoryjoe> that's true
  306. [23:27:01] <factoryjoe> i agree
  307. [23:27:05] <factoryjoe> yeah
  308. [23:27:08] <factoryjoe> but what's funny
  309. [23:27:15] <factoryjoe> is that XFN tries to define all relationship types
  310. [23:27:17] <tantek> this is one of the most idiotic mistakes made inf F-O-A-F
  311. [23:27:26] <tantek> they have separate fields for "homepage" and "blog"
  312. [23:27:29] <kingryan> no, it doesn't
  313. [23:27:41] <kingryan> there's no "baby mama," for example
  314. [23:27:47] <tantek> as if you would want to actually create new *fields* in a format for different *types* of urls
  315. [23:27:50] <tantek> really dumb
  316. [23:27:57] <factoryjoe> omg
  317. [23:28:02] <factoryjoe> ok, let's step back here
  318. [23:28:06] <factoryjoe> you don't even have the full use case
  319. [23:28:22] <factoryjoe> as usual, i don't care about the form of the solution, i just need a solution
  320. [23:28:25] <factoryjoe> so
  321. [23:28:29] <factoryjoe> with rhyzomatic, like suprglue
  322. [23:28:37] <factoryjoe> you can identify your various accounts
  323. [23:28:37] <tantek> ryan is right
  324. [23:28:39] <factoryjoe> at various services
  325. [23:28:51] <factoryjoe> kingryan is right
  326. [23:28:54] <tantek> XFN explicitly DIDNT try to define all relationship types
  327. [23:28:57] <tantek> it went for the 80/20
  328. [23:29:00] <factoryjoe> it looks at a subset
  329. [23:29:01] <tantek> and said "we're done"
  330. [23:29:02] <factoryjoe> yes
  331. [23:29:25] <factoryjoe> a lot of people have 1. photos 2. a blog (or two) 3. other places where they publish *specific types* of content
  332. [23:29:30] <tantek> fortunately, human relationships are a fairly well-worn path
  333. [23:29:42] <factoryjoe> with rhyzo i need a way to ask a profile page "show me this person's photos"
  334. [23:29:47] <tantek> it's highly unlikely that a new common human relationship type will be invented next year
  335. [23:29:53] <factoryjoe> or, if i'm on their flickr page "show me this person's blog(s)"
  336. [23:29:57] <tantek> however, the same is not true of urls
  337. [23:30:09] <factoryjoe> tantek: i need to pull out specific types of data
  338. [23:30:21] <factoryjoe> if a webpage is to be our services' API, i need *some* specificity
  339. [23:30:27] <tantek> why not keep your own registry then?
  340. [23:30:30] <factoryjoe> i don't want *all* URLs for a user
  341. [23:30:32] <tantek> url domain <-> type of data
  342. [23:30:34] <factoryjoe> registry?
  343. [23:30:41] <tantek> yeah
  344. [23:30:41] <factoryjoe> that's one method
  345. [23:30:46] <tantek> just build in knowledge into the app
  346. [23:30:46] <factoryjoe> which we'd likely do anyway
  347. [23:30:49] <factoryjoe> however
  348. [23:30:54] <tantek> that flickr.com/* means photos
  349. [23:30:54] <tantek> etc.
  350. [23:31:00] <factoryjoe> tantek.com isn't a common blog URL like blogger.com
  351. [23:31:15] <tantek> that way you avoid the whole taxonomy design problem
  352. [23:31:18] <factoryjoe> and i'd rather not have users be forced to define what content is on the other end explicitly
  353. [23:31:27] <tantek> default it it to blog/home then
  354. [23:31:28] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-68-160-8-234.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
  355. [23:31:56] <kingryan> blog/home is like text/plain ?
  356. [23:32:08] <tantek> since the web is HTML by default, ergo, hypertext, ergo, *TEXT*, it makes sense to default to that
  357. [23:32:44] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-68-160-8-234.bos.east.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  358. [23:32:44] <kingryan> the default can also be, uh, nothing
  359. [23:33:42] <factoryjoe> yeah
  360. [23:33:44] <factoryjoe> well again
  361. [23:33:52] <factoryjoe> if i have a greasemonkey script
  362. [23:33:59] <factoryjoe> that goes to rhyzomatic.com/user/tantek
  363. [23:34:03] <factoryjoe> and wants to get your photo URL
  364. [23:34:06] <factoryjoe> how should it find it?
  365. [23:36:11] <kingryan> it could have the knowledge built in
  366. [23:36:16] <kingryan> could use heuristics
  367. [23:36:33] <kingryan> or a semantic markup
  368. [23:38:05] <factoryjoe> yikes
  369. [23:38:13] <factoryjoe> well semantic markup... microformats?
  370. [23:38:14] <factoryjoe> wtf
  371. [23:38:20] <factoryjoe> i mean, isn't that what i'm asking for?
  372. [23:38:27] <factoryjoe> class="photos"
  373. [23:38:33] <factoryjoe> i don't really care much...
  374. [23:38:39] <factoryjoe> but that's not really right
  375. [23:38:40] <kingryan> but, I think tantek's point is that defining a microformat for different kinds of homepages is an open-ended task which will likely never be fully realizable
  376. [23:38:45] <factoryjoe> rel="me photos" seems more likely
  377. [23:38:47] <kingryan> no, no, no
  378. [23:38:52] <factoryjoe> haha
  379. [23:38:53] <factoryjoe> ok
  380. [23:38:55] <kingryan> there's miles of semantic markup before microformats
  381. [23:38:56] <factoryjoe> tell me then
  382. [23:39:03] <factoryjoe> miles, i like that
  383. [23:39:12] <kingryan> if you want to use class="photos" or rel="photolog" or whatever, go ahead
  384. [23:39:27] <tantek> factoryjoe, the problem is with your question
  385. [23:39:34] <kingryan> but unless there's a finite, common use-case, there's no case for a microformat
  386. [23:39:41] <tantek> "and wants to get your photo URL...how should it find it?"
  387. [23:39:54] <tantek> "and wants to get your video URL...how should it find it?"
  388. [23:40:04] <tantek> "and wants to get your favorites URL...how should it find it?"
  389. [23:40:09] <factoryjoe> ok
  390. [23:40:09] <tantek> "and wants to get your podcast URL...how should it find it?"
  391. [23:40:17] <tantek> "and wants to get your newfangled2007thing URL...how should it find it?"
  392. [23:40:20] <factoryjoe> tantek: right, ad infinitum
  393. [23:40:28] <factoryjoe> however
  394. [23:40:32] <factoryjoe> like with relationships
  395. [23:40:55] <factoryjoe> 80/20
  396. [23:40:59] <kingryan> no
  397. [23:41:05] <factoryjoe> ha!
  398. [23:41:05] <kingryan> that's a false comparison
  399. [23:41:06] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit ()
  400. [23:41:09] <factoryjoe> damnit!
  401. [23:41:21] <kingryan> we have millions of years of prior art with human relationships
  402. [23:41:26] <kingryan> and 15 with the web
  403. [23:41:28] <factoryjoe> as we do with art
  404. [23:41:43] <factoryjoe> people make videos, photos, writings, music
  405. [23:41:56] <factoryjoe> i can document back to the renaissance
  406. [23:42:00] <factoryjoe> and pave those cowpaths
  407. [23:42:08] <kingryan> my point is that behaviors on the web haven't converged to a point where you could extract an 80/20 which woudl be persistent
  408. [23:42:11] <factoryjoe> but somehow it seems like i'm still wrong wrong wrong
  409. [23:42:14] <factoryjoe> help me see the light here
  410. [23:42:50] <factoryjoe> kingryan: can we define what that 80% is?
  411. [23:42:54] <kingryan> all of your questions are about web-specific behaviors, which are mostly new within the last 5 years
  412. [23:43:06] <factoryjoe> i feel like you're saying no but that you're not allowing for that 80% to even be considered
  413. [23:43:09] <kingryan> sure, but there's no point in making a microformat of it
  414. [23:43:19] <factoryjoe> well
  415. [23:43:31] <kingryan> like I said, do semantic markup
  416. [23:43:34] <kingryan> no one's stopping you
  417. [23:43:46] <kingryan> build greasemonkey scripts on that markup
  418. [23:44:08] <kingryan> but micoroformats are about more than semantic markup or html as data
  419. [23:44:34] <kingryan> they're about standardizing on established, converged behaviors
  420. [23:44:53] <factoryjoe> ok
  421. [23:44:55] <factoryjoe> fair enough
  422. [23:45:09] <factoryjoe> is there a page on those miles of semantic markup?
  423. [23:45:20] <factoryjoe> i think i'm gunna blog that
  424. [23:45:22] <kingryan> there's entire books on it
  425. [23:45:26] <factoryjoe> this is fascinating stuff
  426. [23:45:26] <bkdelong> :)
  427. [23:45:27] <factoryjoe> omg
  428. [23:45:39] <kingryan> and I just made that phrase up
  429. [23:45:47] <factoryjoe> and fyi, i like you guys and all and we're all friends so i can tell you that you seem a bit draconian in your approach
  430. [23:46:00] <factoryjoe> maybe it's coz you know me and you know i'm hard headed
  431. [23:46:10] <kingryan> :D
  432. [23:46:19] <factoryjoe> but if i were a n00b and less egocentric, man, i'd be crying to my mum right now
  433. [23:46:21] <kingryan> I push harder 'cause I know I need to
  434. [23:46:21] <bkdelong> Well, the problem is if we don't keep to rigid, pre-existing schemas....
  435. [23:46:44] <factoryjoe> yeah, but we could at least be welcoming as we bitch slap n00bs
  436. [23:46:46] <kingryan> n00b's wouldn't be so hard headed
  437. [23:46:55] <kingryan> or, if they were, they'd be *completely* wrong
  438. [23:47:03] <kingryan> you're just kinda wrong, factoryjoe
  439. [23:47:07] <factoryjoe> true, they'd crumble under the glaring light of the microgods
  440. [23:47:15] <factoryjoe> sweet
  441. [23:47:22] <factoryjoe> that's better than usual
  442. [23:47:28] <bkdelong> then the user agents and such won't implement all the standard
  443. [23:47:36] <bkdelong> Like HTML and CSS. ;)
  444. [23:47:42] * kingryan goes to start http://factoryjoesucks.wordpress.com/
  445. [23:48:58] <factoryjoe> at least GFY is ending
  446. [23:49:14] <kingryan> you think they'll really quit?
  447. [23:49:16] <factoryjoe> microformatsarefat.wordpress.com
  448. [23:49:21] <factoryjoe> apparently
  449. [23:49:26] <factoryjoe> i read some post by the creator
  450. [23:49:29] <factoryjoe> saying he's bored
  451. [23:49:41] <kingryan> I'd believe it
  452. [23:52:48] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("rebooting to resuscitate mysql")
  453. [23:53:40] <factoryjoe> yeah
  454. [23:53:58] <kingryan> hell, I get bored writing supr.c.ilio.us
  455. [23:55:33] <factoryjoe> yeah
  456. [23:55:35] <factoryjoe> i get bored living
  457. [23:55:41] <factoryjoe> i mean
  458. [23:55:41] <factoryjoe> wtf
  459. [23:55:46] <factoryjoe> *another day?!*
  460. [23:55:47] <factoryjoe> gah
  461. [23:56:06] <factoryjoe> i'll just go be snarky about some recent technology that i don't get but is worth bashing
  462. [23:56:08] <kingryan> I get bored of sleeping
  463. [23:56:31] <factoryjoe> i'm so bored of getting bored
  464. [23:57:10] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
  465. [23:57:18] <bkdelong> hehehe
  466. [23:57:27] <kingryan> I'm getting bored of your boredom
  467. [23:57:51] <kingryan> plus, all the cool kids are 'disaffected,' not bored
  468. [23:58:57] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  469. [23:59:16] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats

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