IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-01-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:01:12] <bkdelong>
Say I mention my city, Salem, in a blog posting. Would I need to give the entire paragraph an "adr" class and then use span = locality around the city name? Can it be that disconnected? Or do we need to include more contextuality?
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- [00:30:28] <TantekC>
greetings
- [00:31:21] <TantekC>
i've flickrd the whiteboard hResume brainstorming results between James Levin (of SimplyHired), Ryan King, and myself
- [00:31:44] <TantekC>
http://flickr.com/photos/tantek/87059139/in/photostream/
- [00:32:15] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [00:33:30] <bkdelong>
damn....did I miss anyone answering my question?
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- [02:48:20] <jibot>
rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
- [03:10:06] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [03:10:06] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
- [03:59:33] <kingryan>
hey bkdelong
- [03:59:41] <kingryan>
you had a question earlier, no?
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- [05:16:09] <jibot>
karlUshi is karlcow
- [05:16:21] <karlUshi>
meuh
- [05:17:16] <karlUshi>
<span class="cow" xml:lang="fr">meuh</span>
- [05:34:03] <kingryan>
<cite>cow</cite> ?
- [05:35:03] <bewest|symphony>
<q class="bovine" xml:lang="fr">meuh</q> ?
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- [06:02:39] <karlUshi>
I don't cite myself ;) often :p
- [06:08:57] <kingryan>
there's nothing wrong with citing yourself
- [06:30:01] <Frederic>
hi
- [06:33:59] <karlUshi>
http://www.parm.net/web2.0/
- [06:34:27] <Frederic>
hahaha
- [06:48:48] <kingryan>
nice karlUshi
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- [07:10:08] <jibot>
Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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- [13:29:40] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com)
- [14:02:52] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [14:02:52] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
- [14:05:53] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4144 * ManoMano * (+434)
- [14:06:09] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=4145 * ManoMano * (+433)
- [14:06:45] <mfbot>
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4146 * ManoMano * (+432)
- [14:06:51] <mfbot>
[[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4147 * ManoMano * (+434)
- [14:07:02] <mfbot>
[[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4148 * ManoMano * (+434)
- [14:07:13] <mfbot>
[[introduction]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=4149 * ManoMano * (+436)
- [14:07:24] <mfbot>
[[process]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=4150 * ManoMano * (+435)
- [14:07:55] <mfbot>
[[naming-conventions]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-conventions&diff=0&oldid=4151 * ManoMano * (+435)
- [14:07:59] <dglazkov>
uh oh. We've got a spammer
- [14:08:21] <mfbot>
[[adr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4152 * ManoMano * (+435)
- [14:08:34] <dglazkov>
somebody ban the bastard
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- [14:16:18] <bkdelong>
Morning all.
- [14:16:22] <bkdelong>
Question - Say I mention my city, Salem, in a blog posting. Would I need to give the entire paragraph an "adr" class and then use span = locality around the city name? Can it be that disconnected? Or do we need to include more contextuality?
- [14:21:16] <dglazkov>
I don't think the spec prohibits that
- [14:21:28] <dglazkov>
but why would you want to do that?
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- [14:21:53] <jibot>
rtomayko is tracking the free culture movement http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/freeculture/
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- [15:04:35] <bkdelong>
dglazkov: Why not? I mean, if we're going to contextualize bits and pieces why not go ahead and contextualize as much as possible.
- [15:06:17] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-170.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #Microformats
- [15:06:17] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego and a college student studying to supplement web scripting skills with an understanding of interactive design. and is on hiatus until March to find work in the Dallas area.
- [15:09:45] <dglazkov>
bkdelong: why not contextualize the whole blog, then? :) I guess what I am getting at is the precision of context
- [15:10:26] * bewest|wor1 is now known as bewest|work
- [15:12:29] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4153 * Emiliano * (+179) Implementations -
- [15:12:52] <bkdelong>
I probably would contextualize the whole blog if there was a microformat that was relevant to each bit of text. ;)
- [15:15:56] <bkdelong>
I guess it all comes down to whether the spec says it's OK to use individual microformat class values for things like a State or someone's Firstname
- [15:17:05] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4154 * Emiliano * (+101) Implementations -
- [15:18:31] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4155 * Emiliano * (+7) Implementations -
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- [15:36:15] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann (Timezone: 0100)
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- [16:13:38] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:ManoMano" with an expiry time of infinite: spammer
- [16:14:44] <mfbot>
[[adr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=adr&diff=0&oldid=4156 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Cgriego
- [16:14:50] <mfbot>
[[naming-conventions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-conventions&diff=0&oldid=4157 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [16:14:51] <mfbot>
[[process]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=process&diff=0&oldid=4158 * Tantek * (-435) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Serginandr
- [16:14:57] <mfbot>
[[introduction]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=introduction&diff=0&oldid=4159 * Tantek * (-436) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [16:14:58] <mfbot>
[[press]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4160 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [16:14:59] <mfbot>
[[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=4161 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by DavidJanes
- [16:15:05] <mfbot>
[[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4162 * Tantek * (-432) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [16:15:06] <mfbot>
[[how-to-play]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=how-to-play&diff=0&oldid=4163 * Tantek * (-433) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
- [16:15:07] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=4164 * Tantek * (-434) Reverted edit of ManoMano, changed back to last version by RobertBachmann
- [16:28:28] <tantek>
spam should be all cleared out. if you see any more, please point it out. thanks!
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- [16:32:47] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
- [16:36:33] <dglazkov>
tantek, if you want you can set me as admin on wiki. While I am quite lazy to do anything useful, I will fend off the spammers
- [17:03:11] <tantek>
dglazkov, i will definitely take your offer seriously. let me get back to you on that.
- [17:03:21] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
- [17:03:21] <dglazkov>
np
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- [17:22:30] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4165 * ChrisCasciano * (+239) hCard -
- [17:23:46] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=4166 * ChrisCasciano * (+243) hCalendar -
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- [17:39:57] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [17:39:57] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [18:36:50] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [18:37:08] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
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- [18:46:38] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
- [18:48:38] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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- [19:13:21] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
- [19:13:21] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:17:41] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:17:41] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com - Is At ApacheCon
- [19:17:58] <tantek>
bk, you still at ApacheCon?
- [19:18:24] <bkdelong>
apparently.
- [19:18:28] <bkdelong>
heh. I need to remember how to reprogram jibot.
- [19:18:50] <tantek>
?forget bkdelong is at ApacheCon
- [19:18:50] <jibot>
I did not know bkdelong was at ApacheCon
- [19:19:06] <tantek>
?forget bkdelong
- [19:19:06] <jibot>
I need at least 3 words with an 'is' in the middle
- [19:19:07] <bkdelong>
thanks.
- [19:20:15] <tantek>
?forgetme bkdelong
- [19:20:15] <jibot>
I have expunged tantek from my mind
- [19:20:33] <tantek>
hmm...
- [19:20:48] <tantek>
?def tantek is Tantek Çelik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:20:49] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek --elik and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:20:56] <tantek>
sigh
- [19:21:03] <tantek>
?forgetme
- [19:21:03] <jibot>
I have expunged tantek from my mind
- [19:21:12] <bkdelong>
?forgetme
- [19:21:12] <jibot>
I have expunged bkdelong from my mind
- [19:21:35] <tantek>
?def bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
- [19:21:35] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
- [19:23:18] <bkdelong>
Is there info on using jibot in the wiki?
- [19:23:47] <tantek>
?def tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:23:48] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
- [19:24:05] <tantek>
?help
- [19:24:57] <tantek>
bkdelong, just type ?help by itself and jibot will help you out in a private message session
- [19:25:14] <bkdelong>
kee-doke.
- [19:26:39] <bkdelong>
?help
- [19:35:40] <dglazkov>
how do you pronounce letter Ç?
- [19:37:55] <bewest|work>
"suh"
- [19:38:04] <bewest|work>
the s in "soft"
- [19:38:42] <dglazkov>
interesting.
- [19:39:30] <kingryan>
dglazkov, in the case of tantek's name, its not "suh," its "chuh"
- [19:39:39] <bewest|work>
really?
- [19:39:41] <kingryan>
(turkish, not french)
- [19:39:43] <bewest|work>
that's fascinating
- [19:39:58] * bewest|work wonders how many applicants have applied for that technorati job
- [19:40:00] <bewest|work>
web dev
- [19:40:03] <kingryan>
a few
- [19:40:07] <kingryan>
you interested?
- [19:40:12] <bewest|work>
yeah
- [19:40:17] <bewest|work>
very
- [19:40:30] <kingryan>
you have a resume online?
- [19:40:53] <bewest|work>
http://siliconllama.com/resume.txt
- [19:41:10] <bewest|work>
(there are a few minor modifications I don't believe have been uploaded)
- [19:41:21] <bewest|work>
very minor edits
- [19:42:16] <tantek>
bewest, while I certainly appreciate your interest in the technorati job, that discussion is probably more appropriate for the #technorati channel. thanks!
- [19:42:24] <bewest|work>
sure
- [19:46:56] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4167 * Tantek * (+164) community marks
- [19:47:07] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
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- [19:49:17] <mfbot>
[[resume-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4168 * Tantek * (+47) Other Thoughts About Résumé Formats -
- [19:52:03] <mfbot>
[[resume-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=4169 * Tantek * (+66) Resume Formats -
- [19:57:39] <mfbot>
[[resume-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4170 * Tantek * (+192) reorganize a bit, add links, brainstorming image
- [19:58:36] <bkdelong>
Anyone know any developers on LinkedIn? The resume format would be perfect for it.
- [19:58:54] <bewest|work>
don't forget guru.com publishes resumes as well
- [19:59:30] <kingryan>
bkdelong, I think linkedin works with simplyhired, who are already working on the resume microformat stuff
- [19:59:41] <kingryan>
but, yeah, they would be a great candidate
- [19:59:59] <kingryan>
though, once we have a microformat, there'd be less need for putting all your details into their data silo
- [20:00:30] <mfbot>
[[resume-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-formats&diff=0&oldid=4171 * Tantek * (-108)
- [20:01:01] <bkdelong>
I'm looking at OutPutThis as a possibility to cross-polinate Social Networks
- [20:01:06] <mfbot>
[[resume-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=4172 * Tantek * (+222)
- [20:01:19] <kingryan>
that'd be cool
- [20:01:21] <bkdelong>
Type once propagate everywhere.
- [20:01:37] <mfbot>
[[resume-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=resume-examples&diff=0&oldid=4173 * Tantek * (-53)
- [20:01:48] <pnhChris>
oreilly's job network/friendster/linkedin clone is out there two, though i'd have to log in and see exactly how and what they present
- [20:02:05] <bkdelong>
Well, updating all of them is a PITA - LinkedIn, Ryze, Friendster, Tribe, Orkut, Yahoo 360....
- [20:02:24] <bkdelong>
pnhChris: Where?
- [20:02:24] <kingryan>
yeah, its much easier to just blog stuff :D
- [20:03:03] <kingryan>
pnhChris, http://connection.oreilly.com/ ?
- [20:03:13] <pnhChris>
yeah, something like that
- [20:03:14] <tantek>
bewest, if you can find a link on guru.com to an actual resume, please add it to microformats.org/wiki/resume-examples
- [20:03:26] <pnhChris>
yeah.. taht one kingryan
- [20:04:16] <pnhChris>
not sure if its going anywhere.. kinda signed up and rarely went back
- [20:04:27] <kingryan>
yeah, it doesn't seem to have any momentum yet
- [20:05:13] <bewest|work>
tantek: I believe those links are hidden behind authentication
- [20:07:08] <pnhChris>
guess the oreilly thing is still invite only
- [20:07:38] <bkdelong>
Are you looking for examples that are marked up already or ones to shoot for?
- [20:13:03] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) has joined #microformats
- [20:13:10] <pnhChris>
(pm me an email addy if anyone wants an invite to that thing)
- [20:13:23] <kingryan>
I'm already in
- [20:13:26] <bkdelong>
Ditto
- [20:13:48] <bkdelong>
Wonder if Rael or someone would be willing to Microformat the fields
- [20:14:28] <bewest|work>
invite to what thing?
- [20:14:37] <bkdelong>
O'Reilly Connection
- [20:29:52] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-74-125.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
- [20:29:53] <jibot>
BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
- [20:47:44] <bewest|work>
hmm /msg only works if you identify?
- [20:48:07] <bewest|work>
did kingryan or pnhChris get my earlier messages?
- [20:49:10] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [20:50:10] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [20:50:40] <pnhChris>
no i didn't see anything
- [20:52:02] <bewest|work>
still nothing?
- [20:52:13] * bewest|work is confused
- [20:52:14] <bkdelong>
?
- [20:53:16] <bewest|work>
maybe it's a gaim bug or something
- [20:53:33] <pnhChris>
maybe i saw your last two.. did you not see my replies?
- [20:53:42] <bewest|work>
no
- [20:55:11] <pnhChris>
(sent btw)
- [20:55:26] <bewest|work>
thanks
- [20:59:15] <bewest|work>
sorry for the repeated messages then
- [21:00:08] <bewest|work>
wow I like it
- [21:03:55] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
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- [22:34:03] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:34:03] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com
- [22:51:46] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [22:51:47] <jibot>
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
- [23:07:42] <bkdelong>
Nice idea for User Profiles, Chris
- [23:08:24] <bkdelong>
It can be applied at/to all those social networks out there.
- [23:08:45] <bkdelong>
er factoryjoe, I mean ;)
- [23:12:48] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [23:12:50] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [23:12:53] <factoryjoe>
thx
- [23:12:56] <factoryjoe>
yeah well i'm doing a project called rhyzomatic
- [23:13:00] <factoryjoe>
which will be hcarded up the wazoo
- [23:13:06] <factoryjoe>
but i need a way to link to one's photos...
- [23:13:12] <factoryjoe>
i.e. rel=photos
- [23:13:22] <factoryjoe>
or rel=tasklist (for 43things etc)
- [23:13:25] <factoryjoe>
rel=favorites
- [23:13:29] <bkdelong>
ooh Flickr aps
- [23:13:46] <factoryjoe>
btw, flickr will likely be getting totally hcarded soon
- [23:13:53] <bkdelong>
sweet
- [23:16:01] <factoryjoe>
(among other things)
- [23:16:02] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [23:16:07] <factoryjoe>
(microformatted related)
- [23:16:14] <bkdelong>
right. fab
- [23:16:32] <factoryjoe>
gunna be huge for flock
- [23:16:43] <factoryjoe>
we'll be able to derive your address book from webpages *you visit*
- [23:16:57] <bkdelong>
wonder when we'll be able to search Google/Yahoo via fields
- [23:17:32] <bkdelong>
use extra fields to narrow search...etc
- [23:22:48] <factoryjoe>
hmm
- [23:22:52] <factoryjoe>
well, you'll be able to do it in flock first
- [23:23:02] <factoryjoe>
on both your feeds (read and unread) and any pages you've visited
- [23:24:02] <tantek>
factoryjoe, what do you mean by "but i need a way to link to one's photos..."
- [23:24:04] <bkdelong>
Nice.....going to check Flock and Ryzomatic out.
- [23:24:09] <tantek>
class="url" gives you that in hCard
- [23:24:25] <bkdelong>
I don't think that's specific enough, though
- [23:24:28] <kingryan_>
and what about xfn's rel="me" ?
- [23:24:33] <bkdelong>
Unless you can qualify it with title or something
- [23:24:35] <tantek>
bk, why?
- [23:24:36] * kingryan_ is now known as kingryan
- [23:24:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [23:25:03] <kingryan>
<a href="http://flickr.com/photos/ryansking" title="my photos" rel="me"/>my photos</a>
- [23:25:16] <bkdelong>
ah
- [23:25:26] <kingryan>
seems sufficient to me
- [23:25:36] <tantek>
agreed
- [23:25:38] <bkdelong>
That seems more like it....unless Chris is thinking of something else.
- [23:25:55] <factoryjoe>
it's not
- [23:25:59] <factoryjoe>
sufficient
- [23:26:02] <factoryjoe>
here's why
- [23:26:03] <tantek>
or are you (the in general you) proposing some sort of taxonomy of *types* of urls, like "my photos", "my blog", "my favorites" etc.?
- [23:26:13] <factoryjoe>
tantek, correct
- [23:26:16] <factoryjoe>
we'll use rel=me
- [23:26:19] <tantek>
then you're making a big mistake
- [23:26:25] <factoryjoe>
and we'll use class=url
- [23:26:30] <factoryjoe>
um?
- [23:26:30] <tantek>
because such a taxonomy is a design-rat-hole
- [23:26:32] <factoryjoe>
no
- [23:26:33] <tantek>
or pit
- [23:26:35] <tantek>
yep
- [23:26:38] <tantek>
it quickly becomes obsolete
- [23:26:50] <tantek>
as if you could possibly document all types of urls
- [23:26:54] <tantek>
at a point in time
- [23:26:55] <factoryjoe>
fine fine
- [23:26:55] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [23:26:58] <tantek>
next year a new type comes out
- [23:27:00] <factoryjoe>
that's true
- [23:27:01] <factoryjoe>
i agree
- [23:27:05] <factoryjoe>
yeah
- [23:27:08] <factoryjoe>
but what's funny
- [23:27:15] <factoryjoe>
is that XFN tries to define all relationship types
- [23:27:17] <tantek>
this is one of the most idiotic mistakes made inf F-O-A-F
- [23:27:26] <tantek>
they have separate fields for "homepage" and "blog"
- [23:27:29] <kingryan>
no, it doesn't
- [23:27:41] <kingryan>
there's no "baby mama," for example
- [23:27:47] <tantek>
as if you would want to actually create new *fields* in a format for different *types* of urls
- [23:27:50] <tantek>
really dumb
- [23:27:57] <factoryjoe>
omg
- [23:28:02] <factoryjoe>
ok, let's step back here
- [23:28:06] <factoryjoe>
you don't even have the full use case
- [23:28:22] <factoryjoe>
as usual, i don't care about the form of the solution, i just need a solution
- [23:28:25] <factoryjoe>
so
- [23:28:29] <factoryjoe>
with rhyzomatic, like suprglue
- [23:28:37] <factoryjoe>
you can identify your various accounts
- [23:28:37] <tantek>
ryan is right
- [23:28:39] <factoryjoe>
at various services
- [23:28:51] <factoryjoe>
kingryan is right
- [23:28:54] <tantek>
XFN explicitly DIDNT try to define all relationship types
- [23:28:57] <tantek>
it went for the 80/20
- [23:29:00] <factoryjoe>
it looks at a subset
- [23:29:01] <tantek>
and said "we're done"
- [23:29:02] <factoryjoe>
yes
- [23:29:25] <factoryjoe>
a lot of people have 1. photos 2. a blog (or two) 3. other places where they publish *specific types* of content
- [23:29:30] <tantek>
fortunately, human relationships are a fairly well-worn path
- [23:29:42] <factoryjoe>
with rhyzo i need a way to ask a profile page "show me this person's photos"
- [23:29:47] <tantek>
it's highly unlikely that a new common human relationship type will be invented next year
- [23:29:53] <factoryjoe>
or, if i'm on their flickr page "show me this person's blog(s)"
- [23:29:57] <tantek>
however, the same is not true of urls
- [23:30:09] <factoryjoe>
tantek: i need to pull out specific types of data
- [23:30:21] <factoryjoe>
if a webpage is to be our services' API, i need *some* specificity
- [23:30:27] <tantek>
why not keep your own registry then?
- [23:30:30] <factoryjoe>
i don't want *all* URLs for a user
- [23:30:32] <tantek>
url domain <-> type of data
- [23:30:34] <factoryjoe>
registry?
- [23:30:41] <tantek>
yeah
- [23:30:41] <factoryjoe>
that's one method
- [23:30:46] <tantek>
just build in knowledge into the app
- [23:30:46] <factoryjoe>
which we'd likely do anyway
- [23:30:49] <factoryjoe>
however
- [23:30:54] <tantek>
that flickr.com/* means photos
- [23:30:54] <tantek>
etc.
- [23:31:00] <factoryjoe>
tantek.com isn't a common blog URL like blogger.com
- [23:31:15] <tantek>
that way you avoid the whole taxonomy design problem
- [23:31:18] <factoryjoe>
and i'd rather not have users be forced to define what content is on the other end explicitly
- [23:31:27] <tantek>
default it it to blog/home then
- [23:31:28] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-68-160-8-234.bos.east.verizon.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:31:56] <kingryan>
blog/home is like text/plain ?
- [23:32:08] <tantek>
since the web is HTML by default, ergo, hypertext, ergo, *TEXT*, it makes sense to default to that
- [23:32:44] * rawtext (n=rawtext@pool-68-160-8-234.bos.east.verizon.net) Quit (Client Quit)
- [23:32:44] <kingryan>
the default can also be, uh, nothing
- [23:33:42] <factoryjoe>
yeah
- [23:33:44] <factoryjoe>
well again
- [23:33:52] <factoryjoe>
if i have a greasemonkey script
- [23:33:59] <factoryjoe>
that goes to rhyzomatic.com/user/tantek
- [23:34:03] <factoryjoe>
and wants to get your photo URL
- [23:34:06] <factoryjoe>
how should it find it?
- [23:36:11] <kingryan>
it could have the knowledge built in
- [23:36:16] <kingryan>
could use heuristics
- [23:36:33] <kingryan>
or a semantic markup
- [23:38:05] <factoryjoe>
yikes
- [23:38:13] <factoryjoe>
well semantic markup... microformats?
- [23:38:14] <factoryjoe>
wtf
- [23:38:20] <factoryjoe>
i mean, isn't that what i'm asking for?
- [23:38:27] <factoryjoe>
class="photos"
- [23:38:33] <factoryjoe>
i don't really care much...
- [23:38:39] <factoryjoe>
but that's not really right
- [23:38:40] <kingryan>
but, I think tantek's point is that defining a microformat for different kinds of homepages is an open-ended task which will likely never be fully realizable
- [23:38:45] <factoryjoe>
rel="me photos" seems more likely
- [23:38:47] <kingryan>
no, no, no
- [23:38:52] <factoryjoe>
haha
- [23:38:53] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [23:38:55] <kingryan>
there's miles of semantic markup before microformats
- [23:38:56] <factoryjoe>
tell me then
- [23:39:03] <factoryjoe>
miles, i like that
- [23:39:12] <kingryan>
if you want to use class="photos" or rel="photolog" or whatever, go ahead
- [23:39:27] <tantek>
factoryjoe, the problem is with your question
- [23:39:34] <kingryan>
but unless there's a finite, common use-case, there's no case for a microformat
- [23:39:41] <tantek>
"and wants to get your photo URL...how should it find it?"
- [23:39:54] <tantek>
"and wants to get your video URL...how should it find it?"
- [23:40:04] <tantek>
"and wants to get your favorites URL...how should it find it?"
- [23:40:09] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [23:40:09] <tantek>
"and wants to get your podcast URL...how should it find it?"
- [23:40:17] <tantek>
"and wants to get your newfangled2007thing URL...how should it find it?"
- [23:40:20] <factoryjoe>
tantek: right, ad infinitum
- [23:40:28] <factoryjoe>
however
- [23:40:32] <factoryjoe>
like with relationships
- [23:40:55] <factoryjoe>
80/20
- [23:40:59] <kingryan>
no
- [23:41:05] <factoryjoe>
ha!
- [23:41:05] <kingryan>
that's a false comparison
- [23:41:06] * therealdam (n=adam@66.196.247.89) Quit ()
- [23:41:09] <factoryjoe>
damnit!
- [23:41:21] <kingryan>
we have millions of years of prior art with human relationships
- [23:41:26] <kingryan>
and 15 with the web
- [23:41:28] <factoryjoe>
as we do with art
- [23:41:43] <factoryjoe>
people make videos, photos, writings, music
- [23:41:56] <factoryjoe>
i can document back to the renaissance
- [23:42:00] <factoryjoe>
and pave those cowpaths
- [23:42:08] <kingryan>
my point is that behaviors on the web haven't converged to a point where you could extract an 80/20 which woudl be persistent
- [23:42:11] <factoryjoe>
but somehow it seems like i'm still wrong wrong wrong
- [23:42:14] <factoryjoe>
help me see the light here
- [23:42:50] <factoryjoe>
kingryan: can we define what that 80% is?
- [23:42:54] <kingryan>
all of your questions are about web-specific behaviors, which are mostly new within the last 5 years
- [23:43:06] <factoryjoe>
i feel like you're saying no but that you're not allowing for that 80% to even be considered
- [23:43:09] <kingryan>
sure, but there's no point in making a microformat of it
- [23:43:19] <factoryjoe>
well
- [23:43:31] <kingryan>
like I said, do semantic markup
- [23:43:34] <kingryan>
no one's stopping you
- [23:43:46] <kingryan>
build greasemonkey scripts on that markup
- [23:44:08] <kingryan>
but micoroformats are about more than semantic markup or html as data
- [23:44:34] <kingryan>
they're about standardizing on established, converged behaviors
- [23:44:53] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [23:44:55] <factoryjoe>
fair enough
- [23:45:09] <factoryjoe>
is there a page on those miles of semantic markup?
- [23:45:20] <factoryjoe>
i think i'm gunna blog that
- [23:45:22] <kingryan>
there's entire books on it
- [23:45:26] <factoryjoe>
this is fascinating stuff
- [23:45:26] <bkdelong>
:)
- [23:45:27] <factoryjoe>
omg
- [23:45:39] <kingryan>
and I just made that phrase up
- [23:45:47] <factoryjoe>
and fyi, i like you guys and all and we're all friends so i can tell you that you seem a bit draconian in your approach
- [23:46:00] <factoryjoe>
maybe it's coz you know me and you know i'm hard headed
- [23:46:10] <kingryan>
:D
- [23:46:19] <factoryjoe>
but if i were a n00b and less egocentric, man, i'd be crying to my mum right now
- [23:46:21] <kingryan>
I push harder 'cause I know I need to
- [23:46:21] <bkdelong>
Well, the problem is if we don't keep to rigid, pre-existing schemas....
- [23:46:44] <factoryjoe>
yeah, but we could at least be welcoming as we bitch slap n00bs
- [23:46:46] <kingryan>
n00b's wouldn't be so hard headed
- [23:46:55] <kingryan>
or, if they were, they'd be *completely* wrong
- [23:47:03] <kingryan>
you're just kinda wrong, factoryjoe
- [23:47:07] <factoryjoe>
true, they'd crumble under the glaring light of the microgods
- [23:47:15] <factoryjoe>
sweet
- [23:47:22] <factoryjoe>
that's better than usual
- [23:47:28] <bkdelong>
then the user agents and such won't implement all the standard
- [23:47:36] <bkdelong>
Like HTML and CSS. ;)
- [23:47:42] * kingryan goes to start http://factoryjoesucks.wordpress.com/
- [23:48:58] <factoryjoe>
at least GFY is ending
- [23:49:14] <kingryan>
you think they'll really quit?
- [23:49:16] <factoryjoe>
microformatsarefat.wordpress.com
- [23:49:21] <factoryjoe>
apparently
- [23:49:26] <factoryjoe>
i read some post by the creator
- [23:49:29] <factoryjoe>
saying he's bored
- [23:49:41] <kingryan>
I'd believe it
- [23:52:48] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("rebooting to resuscitate mysql")
- [23:53:40] <factoryjoe>
yeah
- [23:53:58] <kingryan>
hell, I get bored writing supr.c.ilio.us
- [23:55:33] <factoryjoe>
yeah
- [23:55:35] <factoryjoe>
i get bored living
- [23:55:41] <factoryjoe>
i mean
- [23:55:41] <factoryjoe>
wtf
- [23:55:46] <factoryjoe>
*another day?!*
- [23:55:47] <factoryjoe>
gah
- [23:56:06] <factoryjoe>
i'll just go be snarky about some recent technology that i don't get but is worth bashing
- [23:56:08] <kingryan>
I get bored of sleeping
- [23:56:31] <factoryjoe>
i'm so bored of getting bored
- [23:57:10] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
- [23:57:18] <bkdelong>
hehehe
- [23:57:27] <kingryan>
I'm getting bored of your boredom
- [23:57:51] <kingryan>
plus, all the cool kids are 'disaffected,' not bored
- [23:58:57] * bear is now known as bear_afk
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