IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-15
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [00:42:05] <jibot>
karlUshi is karlcow
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- [01:28:37] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [01:30:30] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4963 * MarkRickerby * (+123) Current Tasks -
- [01:31:11] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4964 * MarkRickerby * (+2)
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- [01:40:15] <jibot>
limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
- [01:59:58] <mfbot>
[[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=4965 * Tantek * (+128)
- [02:07:04] <mfbot>
[[faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4966 * Tantek * (+415) added links to specific microformat faqs
- [02:07:15] <mfbot>
[[faq]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=faq&diff=0&oldid=4967 * Tantek * (-5)
- [02:38:02] <kingryan>
hey DanC, are you awake?
- [02:39:04] <DanC>
who me? no. definitely not.
- [02:39:56] <DanC>
'sup?
- [02:40:00] <kingryan>
me neither
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- [02:43:03] <DanC>
why do you ask, kingryan ?
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- [02:47:49] <kingryan>
arg
- [02:48:02] <kingryan>
client died
- [02:48:29] <kingryan>
anyway, DanC, you once mentioned a (semi-standard?) way of describing xml namespaces
- [02:48:55] <kingryan>
a format/convention at the resources pointed at by namespace URIs
- [02:49:07] <kingryan>
I can't seem to remember what that was called or find it on the web
- [02:50:59] <DanC>
I'm fond of using HTML+GRDDL these days; e.g. XMDP. You might be thinking of RDDL.
- [02:54:18] <DanC>
you went to japan? ah. no; japanese team came to SFO. http://www.flickr.com/photos/ryansking/98316544/in/datetaken/
- [02:54:46] <kingryan>
yeah, japanese team in SF
- [02:55:07] <kingryan>
yeah, I think it was RDDL
- [02:55:40] <kingryan>
anyway, someone had just made the comment that "there's no way to put anything at the end of a namespace URI to describe the namespace"
- [02:56:18] <DanC>
feh
- [02:56:34] <DanC>
there's lots of ways. XHTML is usually best, as usual.
- [02:56:39] <kingryan>
of course
- [02:58:27] <DanC>
here's the way I'd like the microformats to be documented: http://www.w3.org/2003/g/td/xfn-workalike
- [02:59:40] <DanC>
i.e. that's how I'd like namespaces/profiles to work
- [03:00:41] <kingryan>
your only significant change to that is the link[rel=transformation], right?
- [03:02:18] <DanC>
yes...
- [03:02:35] <kingryan>
that seems reasonable
- [03:02:40] <DanC>
well, there are two: one at the XMDP level, in the <head>, and the visible one at the XFN level
- [03:02:56] <DanC>
<link rel="transformation"
- [03:02:56] <DanC>
href="http://www.w3.org/2003/12/rdf-in-xhtml-xslts/grokXMDP.xsl" />
- [03:03:00] <DanC>
that one could be made visible
- [03:03:00] <kingryan>
yes, but they are both the same, no?
- [03:03:33] <DanC>
no; one says how to get RDF out of an XMDP profile, and the other says how to get RDF out of individual XFN pages
- [03:03:35] <kingryan>
wait, nm, they are different
- [03:03:43] <kingryan>
gotcha
- [03:04:29] <DanC>
rel="transformation" is for "this document" and rel="profileTransformation" is for "all documents that use this profile"
- [03:04:50] <kingryan>
cool
- [03:05:07] <DanC>
:)
- [03:05:29] <kingryan>
I'm all for making µf data SemWeb friendly
- [03:05:45] <DanC>
go forth and blog about it, please! I can't seem to write a good explanation of it. I'm able to explain it to people one at a time...
- [03:05:49] <kingryan>
though I don't use SemWeb technology much
- [03:05:49] <DanC>
... but nobody gets it from the spec.
- [03:06:18] <DanC>
I'm just *dying* for the hCard and hCalendar profiles to work this way
- [03:06:24] <kingryan>
yeah, not many people realize that µf's are actually good for the SW
- [03:06:42] <kingryan>
yeah, we need to get proper xmdp URIs for them
- [03:07:11] <DanC>
anythink I can do to help get that to happen?
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- [03:07:44] <jibot>
KevinMarks is a writer of code, limericks, weblogs & syllepses & his blog is at http://epeus.blogspot.com & he explains how to get Creators paid at http://mediagora.com & originally from London, UK & living in Willow Glen, San Jose, CA & working at Technorati & is WikipediaWorthy & part of http://microformats.org & PST (UTC-8) & also in every time zone ever created, for KevinMarks is everpresent & the Podfather & the spidermeist
- [03:08:26] <kingryan>
well, the current holdup is that other things have been taking higher priority, esp. for tantek, kevin and I
- [03:09:22] <kingryan>
tantek's of the opinion that profiles aren't neccessary to start gaining adoption (aka, publishing)
- [03:09:38] * DanC wonders who kevin is... hmm... Kevin Marks...
- [03:09:42] <kingryan>
so, other work has been taking higher priority
- [03:09:48] <kingryan>
yes
- [03:10:16] <DanC>
yeah, I'm pretty annoyed about this idea that we can do profile URIs later. What a pain.
- [03:10:25] <kingryan>
yeah, despite all the community work we're doing here, we still seem to have bottlnecks through us t-rati peopl
- [03:10:31] <DanC>
PLEASE let's get them in now so we don't have to back-fill
- [03:10:39] <kingryan>
so, DanC, what you can do to help is bug Tantek
- [03:10:55] <DanC>
I've done about as much of that as I think is civil ;-)
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- [03:11:05] <kingryan>
I'd rather go ahead and publish the ones we have, and do it properly
- [03:11:10] <DanC>
my next step is basically to just make some profile URIs of my own and start competing.
- [03:11:16] <kingryan>
oh oh, one thing you can do
- [03:11:25] <kingryan>
xmdp needs a way to reference other profiles
- [03:11:39] <kingryan>
any ideas there would be *very* helpful
- [03:11:51] <kingryan>
'cause we have µf's that use other µf's
- [03:11:59] <DanC>
hmm... got an example? like hCard and geo? which way should the pointer(s) go?
- [03:12:09] <KevinMarks>
can we make a pace for profiles to be?
- [03:12:28] <DanC>
I know I can, KevinMarks ;-)_
- [03:12:41] <kingryan>
geo should point at hcard
- [03:12:44] <kingryan>
hreview should point at hcard
- [03:12:48] <KevinMarks>
well, indeed, I meant an mf place
- [03:12:52] <KevinMarks>
geo--
- [03:12:57] <pnhChris>
and tag?
- [03:13:10] <kingryan>
KevinMarks, what do you mean? a url space?
- [03:13:14] <pnhChris>
which came first.. the chicken or the hatom
- [03:13:24] <kingryan>
pnhChris, the html
- [03:13:29] <KevinMarks>
yes, a place on mf.org for profiels to be
- [03:13:47] <kingryan>
I'm in favor of it
- [03:13:55] <kingryan>
http://microformats.org/profile/ ?
- [03:14:01] <kingryan>
or profiles*
- [03:14:03] <DanC>
http://microformats.org/vocab/hCard
- [03:14:11] <DanC>
http://microformats.org/profile/hcard
- [03:14:16] <DanC>
http://microformats.org/profiles/hcard
- [03:14:21] <DanC>
^ all fine by me
- [03:14:23] <kingryan>
cool
- [03:14:25] <pnhChris>
kingryan: aye, I just meant in the pointing case
- [03:15:01] <pnhChris>
where something like adr is clearly grown out of a part of hcard
- [03:15:03] <DanC>
http://microformats.org/dictionary/hcard # brainstorming
- [03:15:14] <pnhChris>
but tag goes the other way
- [03:15:28] <kingryan>
adr, the format, will reference hcard
- [03:15:40] <kingryan>
hcard is primary, adr a derivative
- [03:15:46] <pnhChris>
right
- [03:16:06] <pnhChris>
so my point.. whats the solution where other thigs use adr (or as hatom is using tag)
- [03:16:15] <DanC>
kingryan, on the pointing bit, I think I can cook something up. I have a vague sense of what you're after. Can you think of a way to test any designs I come up with? what problem am I solving, exactly?
- [03:16:19] <kingryan>
hAtom would reference rel-tag
- [03:16:23] <pnhChris>
X points to adr which points to hcard
- [03:16:48] <kingryan>
DanC, the proplem is that when I use hReview, I only what to reference the hReview profile
- [03:17:13] <kingryan>
hReview uses hCard, but we don't want to replicate the hCard XMDP in theh hReview profile
- [03:17:44] <kingryan>
so, we need a way to say "this field in hReview can|must be an hCard and go look over there for info about hCard"
- [03:17:46] <kingryan>
clear?
- [03:17:58] <DanC>
ok, so a design "works" if it associates street-address in an hReview with hCard's street-address, yes?
- [03:18:30] <kingryan>
with the right scoping, yes
- [03:18:56] <kingryan>
it also works if we can follow the DRY principle
- [03:19:01] <DanC>
if I go looking at *-brainstorming, will I find examples?
- [03:19:38] <kingryan>
um, I'm not sure
- [03:19:51] <kingryan>
I'm not sure if many people other than tantek and I have discussed it
- [03:19:54] <kingryan>
f2f
- [03:20:20] <DanC>
ok
- [03:22:02] <kingryan>
alright, I gotta run
- [03:22:11] <kingryan>
email me if you have any questions re:xmdp
- [03:22:22] <kingryan>
I'll see if I can drag up any prior brainstorming
- [03:22:31] <kingryan>
later.
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- [03:23:07] <KevinMarks>
so, how about hooking you the yahoo calendar widget wiht hCalendar?
- [03:23:08] <KevinMarks>
http://developer.yahoo.net/yui/calendar/index.html
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- [05:06:46] <mfbot>
[[getting-started]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=getting-started&diff=0&oldid=4968 * MarkRickerby * (+190) made start on addressing individual audiences
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bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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kingryan is ryan king
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- [07:44:05] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [13:45:59] <Frederic>
hello
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- [13:53:52] <jibot>
karlUshi is karlcow
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- [14:07:27] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [14:19:41] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [15:03:29] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [16:04:25] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4969 * ChrisCasciano * (+183) Entry Content (atom:content) -
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- [17:01:12] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4970 * Tantek * (+159)
- [17:03:15] <pnhChris>
tantek: i had a question on that when going back to the chat and i saw your comment... is hentry considered a root element?
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- [17:08:33] <tantek>
yes, it can be, just like "vevent"
- [17:08:48] <mfbot>
[[naming-principles]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-principles&diff=0&oldid=4971 * Tantek * (+750)
- [17:10:53] <Frederic>
hi tantek
- [17:12:05] <pnhChris>
sorry, not following
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- [17:13:50] <jibot>
amanuel is running The Intentional Web Initiative http://intentionalweb.org
- [17:13:52] <pnhChris>
is there a case where the entry is used outside of hatom?
- [17:14:20] <pnhChris>
(or rather outside of the hfeed context)
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- [17:14:31] <pnhChris>
or am i using the wrong definition of root
- [17:19:30] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
- [17:19:30] <jibot>
hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
- [17:29:45] <tantek>
chris, hentry *can* be an explicit root in terms parsing
- [17:29:57] <tantek>
terms of parsing
- [17:30:28] <tantek>
in otherwords, an hAtom parser first looks for hfeed elements, and if it doesn't find any, it looks for hentry elements
- [17:31:01] <tantek>
just like an hCalendar parser first looks for vcalendar elements, and if it doesn't find any, it looks for vevent elements
- [17:31:31] <tantek>
now once it finds those naked hentry or vevent elements, it infers the context of an hfeed or vcalendar (respectively) to the whole page
- [17:31:56] <tantek>
but a parser would never look for a naked hcontent element. it's not defined to mean anything outside the context of an hentry
- [17:33:47] <pnhChris>
ok.. that makes sense in parsing terms.. i just couldn't infer that from http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom#Entry
- [17:35:00] <mfbot>
[[naming-principles]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-principles&diff=0&oldid=4972 * Tantek * (+397) Naming Patterns Under Consideration as Principles -
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- [17:37:08] <jibot>
limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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- [17:45:31] <mfbot>
[[rest/datatypes]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=4973 * Tantek * (+150) Analysis -
- [17:45:59] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [17:47:43] <mfbot>
[[rest/datatypes]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/datatypes&diff=0&oldid=4974 * Tantek * (+62) Proposal -
- [17:49:09] <mfbot>
[[naming-principles]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-principles&diff=0&oldid=4975 * Tantek * (+157) Naming Patterns Under Consideration as Principles -
- [17:53:20] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=4976 * Tantek * (+6)
- [17:56:31] <mfbot>
[[naming-principles]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=naming-principles&diff=0&oldid=4977 * Tantek * (+102)
- [18:00:12] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4978 * Tantek * (+761)
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- [18:29:50] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
- [18:31:39] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4979 * Tantek * (+81) Entry Content (atom:content) -
- [18:33:22] <KevinMarks>
Stowe Boyd invents an anti-microformat: http://www.stoweboyd.com/message/2006/02/filling_the_dis.html
- [18:38:07] <tantek>
how 1997
- [18:39:08] <Frederic>
how ugly
- [18:41:39] <limbo_>
but he escapes the ' character, so it's ok
- [18:43:19] <hober>
ifck
- [18:43:21] <hober>
err, ick
- [18:43:50] <KevinMarks>
adding markup to obscure meaning
- [18:44:20] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
- [18:44:21] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
- [18:45:53] <limbo_>
i find it just as funny that he thinks he has an informal advisory relationship with Y!
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- [19:04:15] <jibot>
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
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- [19:35:03] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [19:38:08] * _fil_ (n=fil@www.rezo.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:38:08] <jibot>
_fil_ is co-author of SPIP (www.spip.net) and works on implementing microformats in it
- [19:40:15] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:40:15] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
- [19:40:25] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
- [19:40:36] <KevinMarks>
hi ryan - did you look at the yahoo widgets?
- [19:40:45] <KevinMarks>
they have a calander entry one...
- [19:40:50] <kingryan>
a little
- [19:41:32] <KevinMarks>
the treeview is disappointing, as you have to create it with JS, it's nto a decorator for a list
- [19:51:17] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit (Connection timed out)
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- [19:52:09] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@c-69-181-81-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [19:52:09] <jibot>
factoryjoe is Chris Messina, works for Flock, Bar Camp & Rhyzomatic & is working towards open source world domination & factorycityblug (http://factoryjoe.com/blog/) & looks like http://www.flickr.com/photos/dotben/70970770/
- [19:52:57] <KevinMarks>
"The economic value of standards, including software standards, is the reduction of transaction costs by reducing asset specificity."
- [19:53:05] <KevinMarks>
http://due-diligence.typepad.com/blog/2006/02/vc_disruption_p.html
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- [20:01:47] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
- [20:22:35] <dglazkov>
if someone called you "technologista", what the hell would they mean by it?
- [20:27:22] * danja (i=DannyAye@host6-217.pool80104.interbusiness.it) Quit ("Ciao!")
- [20:27:51] <KevinMarks>
depends what language they normally speak
- [20:28:39] <dglazkov>
American English. I am trying to decide whether it's derisive
- [20:28:56] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
- [20:29:55] <dmose>
my guess would be "no"
- [20:30:00] <dmose>
but more context would be helpful
- [20:30:49] * limbo__ (n=me@dsl081-055-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [20:31:33] <KevinMarks>
is it by analogy with sandinista - there are a lot of back-formed ones like that
- [20:31:46] <dglazkov>
"a normal person would walk on by, but a technologista like you can't help but get in on the discussions"
- [20:31:56] <KevinMarks>
which would mean technology proselytiser
- [20:32:39] <dmose>
or would have guess by analogy with "barrista"
- [20:32:45] <dmose>
s/or/i/
- [20:33:08] <dglazkov>
heh. I like both of them
- [20:34:48] <dglazkov>
thanks, my wise dictionary friends
- [20:44:30] * limbo_ (n=me@dsl081-055-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [20:52:17] <KevinMarks>
well, barrista deosn't imply fanatic
- [20:53:16] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
- [20:55:32] <dglazkov>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardista
- [20:59:21] <kingryan>
isn't standarista a feminine term?
- [20:59:28] <kingryan>
standaristo?
- [21:07:27] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [21:12:24] <mfbot>
[[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=4980 * Kevin Marks * (+203) Entry Content (atom:content) -
- [21:12:29] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2526P021.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
- [21:12:30] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
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- [22:11:44] <jibot>
bluesmoon is Philip from India & writes often on livejournal & sometimes about tech stuff on http://bluesmoon.blogspot.com & restaurants on http://bluesviews.blogspot.com & local food secrets on http://bluesfood.blogspot.com
- [22:12:03] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-81-161-155.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) Quit ()
- [22:13:43] <RobertBachmann>
There's a new version of hAtom2Atom.xsl available. <http://rbach.priv.at/hAtom2Atom/>
- [22:15:40] * limbo__ (n=me@dsl081-055-160.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
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- [22:16:33] <RobertBachmann>
The Changelog of hAtom2Atom.xsl is now published as a hAtom feed <http://rbach.priv.at/hAtom2Atom/Changelog/>.
- [22:16:34] <RobertBachmann>
There's also an Atom feed (generated by hAtom2Atom.xsl of course ;-) <http://rbach.priv.at/hAtom2Atom/Changelog.atom>.
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- [22:32:07] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4981 * RodBegbie * (+381) Adding info on yes.com
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- [22:34:03] <mfbot>
[[User:RodBegbie]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:RodBegbie * RodBegbie * (+164)
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- [22:36:38] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [22:39:08] * bear_afk is now known as bear
- [22:42:19] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4982 * RodBegbie * (+339) Added info on Portishead Remixed album.
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- [22:59:21] <mfbot>
[[media-info-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-examples&diff=0&oldid=4983 * RodBegbie * (+344) Music - Myspace info
- [23:02:37] <mfbot>
[[media-info-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=media-info-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=4984 * RodBegbie * (+67)
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- [23:39:36] <jibot>
limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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