IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:20:23] <jibot>
karlUshi is karlcow
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- [01:58:34] <pnhChris>
wiki gone MIA or is it just me?
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- [05:24:51] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [12:00:50] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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- [13:16:51] <jibot>
karlUshi is karlcow
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- [13:20:48] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [13:46:31] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
- [13:57:26] <markmansour>
is anyone there?
- [13:58:02] <Frederic>
no
- [13:58:45] <markmansour>
:) Frederic, do you run Outlook? Would you try this for me http://lifelint.net/calservice/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lifelint.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2006%2F01%2Fhcalendar-agenda-20060225.html&format=ical&outlook=yes
- [13:59:20] <markmansour>
I'm hoping that it imports the calendar straight into outlook
- [13:59:30] <Frederic>
I don't
- [14:00:18] <markmansour>
ah... do you use any sort of calendaring program? if so, could you try to import it?
- [14:00:29] <dglazkov>
works fine in outlook
- [14:00:39] <markmansour>
thanks dglazkov
- [14:01:03] <markmansour>
Outlook requires some fields that other calendars don't...
- [14:02:38] <Frederic>
It's OK for me with iCal
- [14:03:24] <markmansour>
thanks Frederic.
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- [15:03:22] <trovster>
http://equl.se/nya/ how would you markup those people mobiles numbers in that vcard.
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- [16:57:31] <tantek>
trovster, looks like you figured it out
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- [16:59:35] <mfbot>
Monitoring microformats.org for changes from to
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- [17:00:58] <trovster>
tantek: I was trying to give him pointers, didn't think of separating it out :D
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- [18:37:05] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4989 * RyanKing * (+0)
- [18:43:21] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4990 * Tantek * (+261) added xtech
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- [19:06:52] <mfbot>
[[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4991 * Tantek * (+189) added WWE2006
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- [20:03:35] <mfbot>
[[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4992 * Tantek * (+211) added Release 1.0 video clip
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- [21:22:56] <amanuel>
factoryjoe: hi
- [21:23:02] <factoryjoe>
heya
- [21:23:04] <factoryjoe>
what's new?
- [21:23:13] <amanuel>
just rolling out the invites
- [21:23:15] <amanuel>
:)
- [21:23:23] <tantek>
greetings
- [21:23:39] <amanuel>
u want 50? hehe
- [21:24:21] <Frederic>
Good evening here
- [21:24:25] <amanuel>
factoryjoe: u will have 50 btw
- [21:24:55] <amanuel>
everyone is getting what they asked
- [21:25:04] <factoryjoe>
;D
- [21:25:05] <factoryjoe>
nice
- [21:25:26] <amanuel>
second highest was 15 invites
- [21:25:30] <amanuel>
LOL
- [21:26:27] <factoryjoe>
yes, i'm greedy
- [21:26:36] <factoryjoe>
but then if you look at my flickr contacts you'll understand why
- [21:26:38] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [21:27:36] <amanuel>
heh
- [21:27:42] <dglazkov>
hello, diverse and wonderful Web people
- [21:28:01] <factoryjoe>
hello good sir
- [21:28:18] <factoryjoe>
hey, anyone want to hack on an hcard problem?
- [21:28:35] <dglazkov>
hack and wheeze, why not
- [21:28:46] <hober>
what's the problem?
- [21:28:58] <factoryjoe>
well, by problem i mean opportunity
- [21:29:11] <factoryjoe>
by opportunity i mean marking up the flickr contact and user pages as hcards
- [21:29:45] <tantek>
makes sense factoryjoe
- [21:30:22] <trovster>
woop. Someone signed up to Multipack, and has a vcard on their site! Kickass.
- [21:30:57] <factoryjoe>
tantek: yes, well ... if you can get me the model code
- [21:31:05] <factoryjoe>
i can spin a patch
- [21:31:36] <factoryjoe>
so... i just don't have time just now to do the conversion of the XHTML
- [21:31:47] <dglazkov>
so, the recipe is:
- [21:31:58] <dglazkov>
* take one part existing Flick contact and user pages
- [21:32:03] <dglazkov>
* add mf magic
- [21:32:10] <dglazkov>
* serve?
- [21:32:12] <factoryjoe>
but i can convert someone else's XHTML and roll it into the source
- [21:32:22] <factoryjoe>
dglazkov: have it done on the backend
- [21:32:23] <tantek>
chris, sample URLs?
- [21:32:26] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [21:32:33] <factoryjoe>
flickr.com/people/factoryjoe
- [21:32:50] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("rebooting")
- [21:33:08] <factoryjoe>
you can mark up my name, bio, url, location as an hcard
- [21:33:19] <factoryjoe>
and then each contact use hcard embedded in xfn
- [21:33:36] <factoryjoe>
but hmm
- [21:33:38] <factoryjoe>
interesting
- [21:33:52] <factoryjoe>
they split "a bit more about you" and "contact" with the fn
- [21:34:09] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [21:34:11] <factoryjoe>
the other pages: http://flickr.com/people/factoryjoe/contacts/
- [21:34:14] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) has joined #microformats
- [21:34:17] <factoryjoe>
http://flickr.com/people/factoryjoe/contacts/?see=friends
- [21:34:27] <factoryjoe>
(is that public?)
- [21:34:39] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
- [21:34:43] <factoryjoe>
and then http://flickr.com/people/factoryjoe/contacts/rev
- [21:35:44] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
- [21:35:58] <dglazkov>
on see=friends, how many do you see? I see 551
- [21:36:55] <dglazkov>
I get 404 on /rev
- [21:37:18] <factoryjoe>
something like that
- [21:39:14] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:40:05] * limbo_ (n=me@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:45:26] <factoryjoe>
hmm, any takers?
- [21:46:42] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [21:47:07] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:49:35] <dglazkov>
I can start. How are we going to do this? Just put up a newly marked up version?
- [21:49:52] <factoryjoe>
yeah!
- [21:49:53] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [21:49:59] <factoryjoe>
just need xhtml
- [21:50:04] <factoryjoe>
that would *awesome*
- [21:50:05] <factoryjoe>
also
- [21:50:19] <factoryjoe>
don't look now (tantek) but it's time for MicroformatsCamp
- [21:50:32] <factoryjoe>
since, well... http://darwinianweb.com/archive/2006/257.html
- [21:50:36] <tantek>
factoryjoe, awesome! where do i sign up?
- [21:51:21] <dglazkov>
I'll host it.
- [21:51:25] <dglazkov>
;)
- [21:51:50] <factoryjoe>
well
- [21:51:59] <factoryjoe>
how about opposite OPML Camp?
- [21:52:15] <factoryjoe>
it would be the perfect extension of the foo/bar releationship!
- [21:52:20] <factoryjoe>
=D
- [21:56:12] <factoryjoe>
tantek: when?
- [21:56:41] <tantek>
facotryjoe, isn't every *Camp a MicroformatsCamp? :D
- [21:57:37] <factoryjoe>
well
- [21:57:43] <factoryjoe>
we could do a MF Mashpit
- [21:57:55] <factoryjoe>
you see barcamp dehli?
- [21:58:04] <factoryjoe>
http://barcamp.org/BarCampDelhi
- [22:00:29] <tantek>
yes a µf mashpit makes a lot of sense
- [22:01:24] <factoryjoe>
cool
- [22:01:26] <factoryjoe>
yes it does
- [22:01:38] <factoryjoe>
and would be good prior to sxsw as far as flock integration goes./..
- [22:01:48] <factoryjoe>
or even tossing up some kind of greasemonkey script
- [22:01:57] <factoryjoe>
maybe that reads from your flock feeds, etc
- [22:02:29] * dglazkov makes guttural noises as he examines Flickr markup
- [22:02:34] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:02:41] <dglazkov>
minimal modification, I presume?
- [22:03:02] <factoryjoe>
yeah
- [22:03:06] <factoryjoe>
just classes if possible
- [22:03:14] <factoryjoe>
has to be minimal impact changes
- [22:03:14] <tantek>
you basically have to make the whole <body> an hCard
- [22:03:20] <factoryjoe>
whoa
- [22:03:22] <tantek>
factoryjoe, some spans are necessary
- [22:03:26] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [22:03:29] <factoryjoe>
that should be fine
- [22:03:37] <factoryjoe>
i just mean that we can't expect to style anything
- [22:03:46] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has left #microformats
- [22:03:50] <factoryjoe>
man
- [22:03:56] <factoryjoe>
subethaedit would be great right now!!
- [22:05:07] <dglazkov>
tantek, can we break up an hcard somehow? The geo info is in the same table as the contacts, so if I make one large vcard, I'll have to do _nested_ vcards..
- [22:05:54] <tantek>
the key is to keep it simple and only do one hCard for the page for you
- [22:06:01] <tantek>
nevermind the contacts for now
- [22:06:13] <dglazkov>
ok
- [22:06:14] <tantek>
the markup is way to busted to try to do cool structural stuff like that
- [22:06:17] <tantek>
too busted even
- [22:08:14] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:08:20] <factoryjoe>
yeah it probably is way ba
- [22:08:21] <factoryjoe>
bad
- [22:08:31] <tantek>
Note to web authors, please quit making comment separators like this: <!--------------------------->
- [22:08:56] <hober>
or, if you really must, at least get the number of --'s right
- [22:08:58] <tantek>
unless you're very good at counting, you will comment out the markup after it by doing that.
- [22:09:02] <tantek>
hober, right
- [22:09:40] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:09:43] <factoryjoe>
interesting
- [22:09:46] <factoryjoe>
i didn't know that
- [22:11:45] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
- [22:12:23] * pnhChris runs off to count things
- [22:12:31] <pnhChris>
j/k
- [22:12:35] <dglazkov>
first pass: http://glazkov.com/resources/code/flickrmat/profile.html
- [22:13:13] <dglazkov>
hcard: fn adr (locality country-name)
- [22:13:18] <dglazkov>
what else can we add?
- [22:13:36] <dglazkov>
oh, and url
- [22:14:12] <tantek>
and note
- [22:14:46] <tantek>
hey dglazkov, you might not want to host that on a public URL, since it may contain private contact info
- [22:14:47] <dglazkov>
the "I work for flock" goes in note?
- [22:15:15] * tantek points out that the channel is logged, and that spiders may be visiting it and indexing the links at any time.
- [22:15:24] <dglazkov>
doh
- [22:16:17] <dglazkov>
good point. What's the solution?
- [22:16:35] <tantek>
at this point, put empty content at the page you just posted
- [22:16:46] <tantek>
and hope that the spiders haven't seen it yet
- [22:17:33] <dglazkov>
done.
- [22:18:05] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [22:18:09] <factoryjoe>
it's like squidees
- [22:18:33] <dglazkov>
how about you guys prepend flickr and a dash to view the latest version?
- [22:18:54] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("Leaving")
- [22:19:43] <factoryjoe>
ok
- [22:20:59] <dglazkov>
now with profile
- [22:21:16] <dglazkov>
"note", I mean
- [22:23:05] <factoryjoe>
cpool
- [22:23:10] <factoryjoe>
so one of the ideas i have for this
- [22:23:18] <factoryjoe>
(a real application of microformats!)
- [22:23:28] <factoryjoe>
is to use the browser to index all my contacts' hcards
- [22:23:42] <factoryjoe>
so when i go to a new service, my "address book" comes with me
- [22:24:04] <factoryjoe>
so i hope at least on the contacts page, we can mark each user up as an hcard
- [22:24:24] <mfbot>
[[hcard-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples&diff=0&oldid=4993 * Tantek * (+449) added MSN Messenger
- [22:25:03] <tantek>
yes
- [22:26:04] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
- [22:26:05] <dglazkov>
ok question on the contacts page
- [22:26:08] <factoryjoe>
k
- [22:26:23] <dglazkov>
URL to their profile, is that vcard url?
- [22:27:57] <dglazkov>
doh! I can't do pretty vcards on the contacts page.
- [22:28:20] <dglazkov>
info is spread across tds and there are two contacts per tr!
- [22:29:09] <tantek>
dglazkov, then don't bother
- [22:29:30] <hober>
dglazkov: maybe @axis and/or @scope would help?
- [22:30:01] <dglazkov>
tantek, well, at least I can mark up their fn and adr? But what good will that do?
- [22:30:17] <factoryjoe>
damn
- [22:30:20] <factoryjoe>
it's that bad eh?
- [22:30:35] <factoryjoe>
hadn't looked too deep honestly
- [22:30:39] <factoryjoe>
only @ the php
- [22:31:33] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2478P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
- [22:32:27] <tantek>
yeah, it's that bad
- [22:32:34] <tantek>
best you can do is to mark up contacts page with XFN
- [22:32:47] <tantek>
and then let parsers get the hCard of your contact from their /people/ page
- [22:33:21] <dglazkov>
tantek, I think that would be best. A lot of HTTP requests to gather all this...
- [22:33:47] <dglazkov>
would you say that the avatar is vcard logo?
- [22:33:47] <tantek>
it's actually ok to have the canonical hCard at only one place on a site for a given user
- [22:33:55] <tantek>
yes, that's how I marked it up
- [22:34:30] <dglazkov>
ok, I added "logo" and "nickname" to the profile page
- [22:37:47] <dglazkov>
added rel="contact" to the contacts page.
- [22:38:11] <dglazkov>
From what I can see, Flickr doesn't expose friends/family information in the contact list
- [22:38:14] <tantek>
good. don't forget to add profile="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11" to the <head> as well
- [22:38:23] <dglazkov>
oh yeah.
- [22:40:54] <dglazkov>
done.
- [22:41:07] <dglazkov>
factoryjoe, do you want them zipped and emailed?
- [22:42:24] <factoryjoe>
sure sure!
- [22:42:25] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [22:42:28] <factoryjoe>
chris at flock
- [22:43:18] <dglazkov>
oh, hang on. I forgot the other contact info.
- [22:43:29] <dglazkov>
messenger ids at the bottom.
- [22:44:28] <dglazkov>
BTW, how would you handle the obfuscated email? That's technically not an email address
- [22:46:22] <tantek>
dglazkov, mark it up with class="email" anyway
- [22:46:41] <tantek>
it will show up obfuscated in your addressbook, and you might fix it by hand then
- [22:46:49] <dglazkov>
good point
- [22:46:58] <tantek>
or if you actually try creating an email message, it will show up obfuscated there, and you'll fix it by hand
- [22:47:06] <tantek>
either way, you can depend on the human to take care of it
- [22:48:53] <dglazkov>
What about the messenger ids at the bottom? These will probably have to fall off the vcard.
- [22:52:32] * KingDiamond|away is now known as KingDiamond
- [22:52:46] * tantek points dglazkov up the irc log to the most recent wiki change logged by mfbot
- [22:53:25] <dglazkov>
yeah, I saw those... but that will mean changing them into anchors
- [22:54:21] <pnhChris>
.. also means an "email address" for a box that might never be checked
- [22:54:46] <tantek>
no you can just do <span class="email">foo@example.com</span>
- [22:57:35] <dglazkov>
currently it's <tr><td>AIM (AOL IM):</td><td>factoryjoe</td></tr>. I am at a loss here...
- [22:58:13] <dglazkov>
I got the email address, though
- [22:58:54] <tantek>
dglazkov, yes, for the yahoo and aim you have to add hyperlinks
- [22:59:01] <dglazkov>
ok.
- [22:59:04] <tantek>
see hcard-examples for how to do this
- [22:59:45] <dglazkov>
What do you think of the hober's axis&scope idea? I can't see how, but I don't have much experience with accessible tables
- [23:00:47] <tantek>
dglazkov, which idea? URL?
- [23:01:35] <dglazkov>
scroll up, hober suggests using @axis/scope to get around cruddy markup on contacts page
- [23:02:29] <tantek>
no axis/scope wouldn't help at all because those are only for the case where info is stored in row or column headers
- [23:02:44] <tantek>
tables for layout screws up semantic structure
- [23:02:53] <dglazkov>
makes sense.
- [23:03:56] <dglazkov>
that was a good mf workout
- [23:03:59] <factoryjoe>
yeah, getting flickr to the mashpit would be good
- [23:04:01] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [23:04:04] <factoryjoe>
heh yeah
- [23:04:07] <factoryjoe>
an mf sprint
- [23:04:16] <factoryjoe>
we totally should blog the before and after
- [23:04:22] <factoryjoe>
not sure if we can use flickr w/o perms
- [23:04:46] <factoryjoe>
but this kind of exercise is very powerful to disarm the naysayers' arguments
- [23:04:52] <dglazkov>
don't you have powerful friends to get permissions?
- [23:05:29] <dglazkov>
you need to set up a booth at SXSW
- [23:05:43] <dglazkov>
"microformatize your site in less than 30 mins"
- [23:06:11] <factoryjoe>
totally
- [23:06:17] <factoryjoe>
i might be able to get perms
- [23:06:31] <factoryjoe>
but i think we'd lose out w/ everyone bitching about the "tables for layout"!
- [23:06:34] <factoryjoe>
;)
- [23:06:41] <dglazkov>
too bad I can't blog
- [23:06:49] * dglazkov broke his blogging engine
- [23:06:59] <tantek>
factoryjoe, vast majority of folks at SXSW don't use tables for layout
- [23:07:27] <factoryjoe>
exactly
- [23:07:33] <factoryjoe>
i'm only talking about using flickr as the example
- [23:07:44] <factoryjoe>
i'm saying, let's find someone who has better markup to begin with
- [23:08:09] <dglazkov>
heh. are you following olympics?
- [23:09:03] <dglazkov>
you should see nbcolympics.com markup. Not a good example to start
- [23:09:53] <dglazkov>
anyways, I gotta go home, feed the kids, chicks, and pigs
- [23:10:01] * izo (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:10:27] <factoryjoe>
thx dglazkov
- [23:10:59] <dglazkov>
np, thanks for the opportunity to pooh-pooh somebody else's markup ;)
- [23:12:07] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
- [23:12:46] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [23:23:06] * limbo_c2tp (n=me@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:29:29] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
- [23:29:46] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
- [23:32:12] <tantek>
the olympics got sued a while ago I think for having inaccessible markup
- [23:36:14] <tantek>
g2g
- [23:36:19] * emose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
- [23:36:53] * TantekC (n=Tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
- [23:42:20] * limbo_ (n=me@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:47:45] * bear is now known as bear_afk
- [23:49:00] * markp (n=markp@pixpat.austin.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
- [23:52:05] <trovster>
Australia Olympic committee IIRC
- [23:58:29] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
- [23:59:29] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@c-24-2-78-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
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