IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  13. [01:20:23] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
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  20. [01:58:34] <pnhChris> wiki gone MIA or is it just me?
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  26. [02:48:30] * pnhChris looks around for mflogbot
  27. [02:48:50] * pnhChris notes his +1 for entry-content
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  41. [05:24:51] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  74. [12:00:50] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  75. [12:08:26] * markmansour (n=markmans@dsl-202-173-156-87.vic.westnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  76. [13:16:51] * karlUshi (n=karl@sd1u209254.ocv.ne.jp) has joined #microformats
  77. [13:16:51] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
  78. [13:20:48] * bergie (n=bergie@30.opensolutions.fi) has joined #microformats
  79. [13:20:48] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  80. [13:46:31] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  81. [13:46:31] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  82. [13:57:26] <markmansour> is anyone there?
  83. [13:58:02] <Frederic> no
  84. [13:58:45] <markmansour> :) Frederic, do you run Outlook? Would you try this for me http://lifelint.net/calservice/?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lifelint.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2006%2F01%2Fhcalendar-agenda-20060225.html&format=ical&outlook=yes
  85. [13:59:20] <markmansour> I'm hoping that it imports the calendar straight into outlook
  86. [13:59:30] <Frederic> I don't
  87. [14:00:18] <markmansour> ah... do you use any sort of calendaring program? if so, could you try to import it?
  88. [14:00:29] <dglazkov> works fine in outlook
  89. [14:00:39] <markmansour> thanks dglazkov
  90. [14:01:03] <markmansour> Outlook requires some fields that other calendars don't...
  91. [14:02:38] <Frederic> It's OK for me with iCal
  92. [14:03:24] <markmansour> thanks Frederic.
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  101. [15:03:22] <trovster> http://equl.se/nya/ how would you markup those people mobiles numbers in that vcard.
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  121. [16:57:31] <tantek> trovster, looks like you figured it out
  122. [16:59:35] * mfbot (n=mfbot@4.79.216.8) has joined #microformats
  123. [16:59:35] <mfbot> Monitoring microformats.org for changes from to
  124. [16:59:35] * mfbot (n=mfbot@4.79.216.8) Quit (Broken pipe)
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  126. [17:00:58] <trovster> tantek: I was trying to give him pointers, didn't think of separating it out :D
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  149. [18:37:05] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4989 * RyanKing * (+0)
  150. [18:43:21] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4990 * Tantek * (+261) added xtech
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  154. [19:06:52] <mfbot> [[events]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events&diff=0&oldid=4991 * Tantek * (+189) added WWE2006
  155. [19:16:49] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  156. [19:24:05] * tantek sets mode +o TantekC
  157. [19:24:12] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
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  165. [20:03:35] <mfbot> [[press]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=press&diff=0&oldid=4992 * Tantek * (+211) added Release 1.0 video clip
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  181. [21:22:56] <amanuel> factoryjoe: hi
  182. [21:23:02] <factoryjoe> heya
  183. [21:23:04] <factoryjoe> what's new?
  184. [21:23:13] <amanuel> just rolling out the invites
  185. [21:23:15] <amanuel> :)
  186. [21:23:23] <tantek> greetings
  187. [21:23:39] <amanuel> u want 50? hehe
  188. [21:24:21] <Frederic> Good evening here
  189. [21:24:25] <amanuel> factoryjoe: u will have 50 btw
  190. [21:24:55] <amanuel> everyone is getting what they asked
  191. [21:25:04] <factoryjoe> ;D
  192. [21:25:05] <factoryjoe> nice
  193. [21:25:26] <amanuel> second highest was 15 invites
  194. [21:25:30] <amanuel> LOL
  195. [21:26:27] <factoryjoe> yes, i'm greedy
  196. [21:26:36] <factoryjoe> but then if you look at my flickr contacts you'll understand why
  197. [21:26:38] <factoryjoe> ;)
  198. [21:27:36] <amanuel> heh
  199. [21:27:42] <dglazkov> hello, diverse and wonderful Web people
  200. [21:28:01] <factoryjoe> hello good sir
  201. [21:28:18] <factoryjoe> hey, anyone want to hack on an hcard problem?
  202. [21:28:35] <dglazkov> hack and wheeze, why not
  203. [21:28:46] <hober> what's the problem?
  204. [21:28:58] <factoryjoe> well, by problem i mean opportunity
  205. [21:29:11] <factoryjoe> by opportunity i mean marking up the flickr contact and user pages as hcards
  206. [21:29:45] <tantek> makes sense factoryjoe
  207. [21:30:22] <trovster> woop. Someone signed up to Multipack, and has a vcard on their site! Kickass.
  208. [21:30:57] <factoryjoe> tantek: yes, well ... if you can get me the model code
  209. [21:31:05] <factoryjoe> i can spin a patch
  210. [21:31:36] <factoryjoe> so... i just don't have time just now to do the conversion of the XHTML
  211. [21:31:47] <dglazkov> so, the recipe is:
  212. [21:31:58] <dglazkov> * take one part existing Flick contact and user pages
  213. [21:32:03] <dglazkov> * add mf magic
  214. [21:32:10] <dglazkov> * serve?
  215. [21:32:12] <factoryjoe> but i can convert someone else's XHTML and roll it into the source
  216. [21:32:22] <factoryjoe> dglazkov: have it done on the backend
  217. [21:32:23] <tantek> chris, sample URLs?
  218. [21:32:26] <factoryjoe> ok
  219. [21:32:33] <factoryjoe> flickr.com/people/factoryjoe
  220. [21:32:50] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("rebooting")
  221. [21:33:08] <factoryjoe> you can mark up my name, bio, url, location as an hcard
  222. [21:33:19] <factoryjoe> and then each contact use hcard embedded in xfn
  223. [21:33:36] <factoryjoe> but hmm
  224. [21:33:38] <factoryjoe> interesting
  225. [21:33:52] <factoryjoe> they split "a bit more about you" and "contact" with the fn
  226. [21:34:09] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  227. [21:34:11] <factoryjoe> the other pages: http://flickr.com/people/factoryjoe/contacts/
  228. [21:34:14] * hlb (i=hlb@CCCA.NCTU.edu.tw) has joined #microformats
  229. [21:34:17] <factoryjoe> http://flickr.com/people/factoryjoe/contacts/?see=friends
  230. [21:34:27] <factoryjoe> (is that public?)
  231. [21:34:39] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  232. [21:34:43] <factoryjoe> and then http://flickr.com/people/factoryjoe/contacts/rev
  233. [21:35:44] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  234. [21:35:58] <dglazkov> on see=friends, how many do you see? I see 551
  235. [21:36:55] <dglazkov> I get 404 on /rev
  236. [21:37:18] <factoryjoe> something like that
  237. [21:39:14] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  238. [21:40:05] * limbo_ (n=me@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  239. [21:45:26] <factoryjoe> hmm, any takers?
  240. [21:46:42] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  241. [21:47:07] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
  242. [21:49:35] <dglazkov> I can start. How are we going to do this? Just put up a newly marked up version?
  243. [21:49:52] <factoryjoe> yeah!
  244. [21:49:53] <factoryjoe> ;)
  245. [21:49:59] <factoryjoe> just need xhtml
  246. [21:50:04] <factoryjoe> that would *awesome*
  247. [21:50:05] <factoryjoe> also
  248. [21:50:19] <factoryjoe> don't look now (tantek) but it's time for MicroformatsCamp
  249. [21:50:32] <factoryjoe> since, well... http://darwinianweb.com/archive/2006/257.html
  250. [21:50:36] <tantek> factoryjoe, awesome! where do i sign up?
  251. [21:51:21] <dglazkov> I'll host it.
  252. [21:51:25] <dglazkov> ;)
  253. [21:51:50] <factoryjoe> well
  254. [21:51:59] <factoryjoe> how about opposite OPML Camp?
  255. [21:52:15] <factoryjoe> it would be the perfect extension of the foo/bar releationship!
  256. [21:52:20] <factoryjoe> =D
  257. [21:56:12] <factoryjoe> tantek: when?
  258. [21:56:41] <tantek> facotryjoe, isn't every *Camp a MicroformatsCamp? :D
  259. [21:57:37] <factoryjoe> well
  260. [21:57:43] <factoryjoe> we could do a MF Mashpit
  261. [21:57:55] <factoryjoe> you see barcamp dehli?
  262. [21:58:04] <factoryjoe> http://barcamp.org/BarCampDelhi
  263. [22:00:29] <tantek> yes a µf mashpit makes a lot of sense
  264. [22:01:24] <factoryjoe> cool
  265. [22:01:26] <factoryjoe> yes it does
  266. [22:01:38] <factoryjoe> and would be good prior to sxsw as far as flock integration goes./..
  267. [22:01:48] <factoryjoe> or even tossing up some kind of greasemonkey script
  268. [22:01:57] <factoryjoe> maybe that reads from your flock feeds, etc
  269. [22:02:29] * dglazkov makes guttural noises as he examines Flickr markup
  270. [22:02:34] <factoryjoe> heh
  271. [22:02:41] <dglazkov> minimal modification, I presume?
  272. [22:03:02] <factoryjoe> yeah
  273. [22:03:06] <factoryjoe> just classes if possible
  274. [22:03:14] <factoryjoe> has to be minimal impact changes
  275. [22:03:14] <tantek> you basically have to make the whole <body> an hCard
  276. [22:03:20] <factoryjoe> whoa
  277. [22:03:22] <tantek> factoryjoe, some spans are necessary
  278. [22:03:26] <factoryjoe> ok
  279. [22:03:29] <factoryjoe> that should be fine
  280. [22:03:37] <factoryjoe> i just mean that we can't expect to style anything
  281. [22:03:46] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has left #microformats
  282. [22:03:50] <factoryjoe> man
  283. [22:03:56] <factoryjoe> subethaedit would be great right now!!
  284. [22:05:07] <dglazkov> tantek, can we break up an hcard somehow? The geo info is in the same table as the contacts, so if I make one large vcard, I'll have to do _nested_ vcards..
  285. [22:05:54] <tantek> the key is to keep it simple and only do one hCard for the page for you
  286. [22:06:01] <tantek> nevermind the contacts for now
  287. [22:06:13] <dglazkov> ok
  288. [22:06:14] <tantek> the markup is way to busted to try to do cool structural stuff like that
  289. [22:06:17] <tantek> too busted even
  290. [22:08:14] <factoryjoe> heh
  291. [22:08:20] <factoryjoe> yeah it probably is way ba
  292. [22:08:21] <factoryjoe> bad
  293. [22:08:31] <tantek> Note to web authors, please quit making comment separators like this: <!--------------------------->
  294. [22:08:56] <hober> or, if you really must, at least get the number of --'s right
  295. [22:08:58] <tantek> unless you're very good at counting, you will comment out the markup after it by doing that.
  296. [22:09:02] <tantek> hober, right
  297. [22:09:40] <factoryjoe> heh
  298. [22:09:43] <factoryjoe> interesting
  299. [22:09:46] <factoryjoe> i didn't know that
  300. [22:11:45] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  301. [22:12:23] * pnhChris runs off to count things
  302. [22:12:31] <pnhChris> j/k
  303. [22:12:35] <dglazkov> first pass: http://glazkov.com/resources/code/flickrmat/profile.html
  304. [22:13:13] <dglazkov> hcard: fn adr (locality country-name)
  305. [22:13:18] <dglazkov> what else can we add?
  306. [22:13:36] <dglazkov> oh, and url
  307. [22:14:12] <tantek> and note
  308. [22:14:46] <tantek> hey dglazkov, you might not want to host that on a public URL, since it may contain private contact info
  309. [22:14:47] <dglazkov> the "I work for flock" goes in note?
  310. [22:15:15] * tantek points out that the channel is logged, and that spiders may be visiting it and indexing the links at any time.
  311. [22:15:24] <dglazkov> doh
  312. [22:16:17] <dglazkov> good point. What's the solution?
  313. [22:16:35] <tantek> at this point, put empty content at the page you just posted
  314. [22:16:46] <tantek> and hope that the spiders haven't seen it yet
  315. [22:17:33] <dglazkov> done.
  316. [22:18:05] <factoryjoe> heh
  317. [22:18:09] <factoryjoe> it's like squidees
  318. [22:18:33] <dglazkov> how about you guys prepend flickr and a dash to view the latest version?
  319. [22:18:54] * dmose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ("Leaving")
  320. [22:19:43] <factoryjoe> ok
  321. [22:20:59] <dglazkov> now with profile
  322. [22:21:16] <dglazkov> "note", I mean
  323. [22:23:05] <factoryjoe> cpool
  324. [22:23:10] <factoryjoe> so one of the ideas i have for this
  325. [22:23:18] <factoryjoe> (a real application of microformats!)
  326. [22:23:28] <factoryjoe> is to use the browser to index all my contacts' hcards
  327. [22:23:42] <factoryjoe> so when i go to a new service, my "address book" comes with me
  328. [22:24:04] <factoryjoe> so i hope at least on the contacts page, we can mark each user up as an hcard
  329. [22:24:24] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples&diff=0&oldid=4993 * Tantek * (+449) added MSN Messenger
  330. [22:25:03] <tantek> yes
  331. [22:26:04] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
  332. [22:26:05] <dglazkov> ok question on the contacts page
  333. [22:26:08] <factoryjoe> k
  334. [22:26:23] <dglazkov> URL to their profile, is that vcard url?
  335. [22:27:57] <dglazkov> doh! I can't do pretty vcards on the contacts page.
  336. [22:28:20] <dglazkov> info is spread across tds and there are two contacts per tr!
  337. [22:29:09] <tantek> dglazkov, then don't bother
  338. [22:29:30] <hober> dglazkov: maybe @axis and/or @scope would help?
  339. [22:30:01] <dglazkov> tantek, well, at least I can mark up their fn and adr? But what good will that do?
  340. [22:30:17] <factoryjoe> damn
  341. [22:30:20] <factoryjoe> it's that bad eh?
  342. [22:30:35] <factoryjoe> hadn't looked too deep honestly
  343. [22:30:39] <factoryjoe> only @ the php
  344. [22:31:33] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2478P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  345. [22:32:27] <tantek> yeah, it's that bad
  346. [22:32:34] <tantek> best you can do is to mark up contacts page with XFN
  347. [22:32:47] <tantek> and then let parsers get the hCard of your contact from their /people/ page
  348. [22:33:21] <dglazkov> tantek, I think that would be best. A lot of HTTP requests to gather all this...
  349. [22:33:47] <dglazkov> would you say that the avatar is vcard logo?
  350. [22:33:47] <tantek> it's actually ok to have the canonical hCard at only one place on a site for a given user
  351. [22:33:55] <tantek> yes, that's how I marked it up
  352. [22:34:30] <dglazkov> ok, I added "logo" and "nickname" to the profile page
  353. [22:37:47] <dglazkov> added rel="contact" to the contacts page.
  354. [22:38:11] <dglazkov> From what I can see, Flickr doesn't expose friends/family information in the contact list
  355. [22:38:14] <tantek> good. don't forget to add profile="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11" to the <head> as well
  356. [22:38:23] <dglazkov> oh yeah.
  357. [22:40:54] <dglazkov> done.
  358. [22:41:07] <dglazkov> factoryjoe, do you want them zipped and emailed?
  359. [22:42:24] <factoryjoe> sure sure!
  360. [22:42:25] <factoryjoe> ;)
  361. [22:42:28] <factoryjoe> chris at flock
  362. [22:43:18] <dglazkov> oh, hang on. I forgot the other contact info.
  363. [22:43:29] <dglazkov> messenger ids at the bottom.
  364. [22:44:28] <dglazkov> BTW, how would you handle the obfuscated email? That's technically not an email address
  365. [22:46:22] <tantek> dglazkov, mark it up with class="email" anyway
  366. [22:46:41] <tantek> it will show up obfuscated in your addressbook, and you might fix it by hand then
  367. [22:46:49] <dglazkov> good point
  368. [22:46:58] <tantek> or if you actually try creating an email message, it will show up obfuscated there, and you'll fix it by hand
  369. [22:47:06] <tantek> either way, you can depend on the human to take care of it
  370. [22:48:53] <dglazkov> What about the messenger ids at the bottom? These will probably have to fall off the vcard.
  371. [22:52:32] * KingDiamond|away is now known as KingDiamond
  372. [22:52:46] * tantek points dglazkov up the irc log to the most recent wiki change logged by mfbot
  373. [22:53:25] <dglazkov> yeah, I saw those... but that will mean changing them into anchors
  374. [22:54:21] <pnhChris> .. also means an "email address" for a box that might never be checked
  375. [22:54:46] <tantek> no you can just do <span class="email">foo@example.com</span>
  376. [22:57:35] <dglazkov> currently it's <tr><td>AIM (AOL IM):</td><td>factoryjoe</td></tr>. I am at a loss here...
  377. [22:58:13] <dglazkov> I got the email address, though
  378. [22:58:54] <tantek> dglazkov, yes, for the yahoo and aim you have to add hyperlinks
  379. [22:59:01] <dglazkov> ok.
  380. [22:59:04] <tantek> see hcard-examples for how to do this
  381. [22:59:45] <dglazkov> What do you think of the hober's axis&scope idea? I can't see how, but I don't have much experience with accessible tables
  382. [23:00:47] <tantek> dglazkov, which idea? URL?
  383. [23:01:35] <dglazkov> scroll up, hober suggests using @axis/scope to get around cruddy markup on contacts page
  384. [23:02:29] <tantek> no axis/scope wouldn't help at all because those are only for the case where info is stored in row or column headers
  385. [23:02:44] <tantek> tables for layout screws up semantic structure
  386. [23:02:53] <dglazkov> makes sense.
  387. [23:03:56] <dglazkov> that was a good mf workout
  388. [23:03:59] <factoryjoe> yeah, getting flickr to the mashpit would be good
  389. [23:04:01] <factoryjoe> ;)
  390. [23:04:04] <factoryjoe> heh yeah
  391. [23:04:07] <factoryjoe> an mf sprint
  392. [23:04:16] <factoryjoe> we totally should blog the before and after
  393. [23:04:22] <factoryjoe> not sure if we can use flickr w/o perms
  394. [23:04:46] <factoryjoe> but this kind of exercise is very powerful to disarm the naysayers' arguments
  395. [23:04:52] <dglazkov> don't you have powerful friends to get permissions?
  396. [23:05:29] <dglazkov> you need to set up a booth at SXSW
  397. [23:05:43] <dglazkov> "microformatize your site in less than 30 mins"
  398. [23:06:11] <factoryjoe> totally
  399. [23:06:17] <factoryjoe> i might be able to get perms
  400. [23:06:31] <factoryjoe> but i think we'd lose out w/ everyone bitching about the "tables for layout"!
  401. [23:06:34] <factoryjoe> ;)
  402. [23:06:41] <dglazkov> too bad I can't blog
  403. [23:06:49] * dglazkov broke his blogging engine
  404. [23:06:59] <tantek> factoryjoe, vast majority of folks at SXSW don't use tables for layout
  405. [23:07:27] <factoryjoe> exactly
  406. [23:07:33] <factoryjoe> i'm only talking about using flickr as the example
  407. [23:07:44] <factoryjoe> i'm saying, let's find someone who has better markup to begin with
  408. [23:08:09] <dglazkov> heh. are you following olympics?
  409. [23:09:03] <dglazkov> you should see nbcolympics.com markup. Not a good example to start
  410. [23:09:53] <dglazkov> anyways, I gotta go home, feed the kids, chicks, and pigs
  411. [23:10:01] * izo (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  412. [23:10:27] <factoryjoe> thx dglazkov
  413. [23:10:59] <dglazkov> np, thanks for the opportunity to pooh-pooh somebody else's markup ;)
  414. [23:12:07] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  415. [23:12:46] <factoryjoe> heh
  416. [23:23:06] * limbo_c2tp (n=me@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  417. [23:29:29] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  418. [23:29:46] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  419. [23:32:12] <tantek> the olympics got sued a while ago I think for having inaccessible markup
  420. [23:36:14] <tantek> g2g
  421. [23:36:19] * emose (n=dmose@dsl081-050-187.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  422. [23:36:53] * TantekC (n=Tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  423. [23:42:20] * limbo_ (n=me@h-67-103-44-6.snfccasy.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  424. [23:47:45] * bear is now known as bear_afk
  425. [23:49:00] * markp (n=markp@pixpat.austin.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  426. [23:52:05] <trovster> Australia Olympic committee IIRC
  427. [23:58:29] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
  428. [23:59:29] * _psychic_ (n=_psychic@c-24-2-78-210.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) has joined #microformats

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