IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:00:00] <tantek> although it would be better if the glossary used a <dl> to defined the terms
  2. [00:03:51] <Hixie> people asked for a disclosure widget, like the triangle in Mac OS dialogs, or the Details >> / << Hide Details buttons in Windows
  3. [00:04:01] <Hixie> i wonder if that's just a special presentation of a <fieldset>
  4. [00:04:05] <Hixie> or if it deserves its own semantic
  5. [00:08:15] <hober> perhaps <fieldset compact="compact"...
  6. [00:08:33] <hober> I wouldn't want a widget like that on *all* fieldsets
  7. [00:08:54] <hober> and the @compact semantics fit this, to some extent
  8. [00:13:20] <Hixie> well if it's a presentational thing it would be up to the CSS/XBL layer
  9. [00:13:24] <Hixie> no attribute needed
  10. [00:14:41] <hober> I'm thinking of dialog boxes where there are by default some visible form elements and some hidden until you click on something. There might reasonably be several fieldsets in such a scenario; how do I say "this fieldset here, this one is in some sense extraneous and can be collapsed by default"
  11. [00:14:59] <Hixie> class attribute, prolly
  12. [00:15:49] <hober> class="advanced-frobs" or some such
  13. [00:15:59] <hober> yeah, that sounds good to me
  14. [00:16:39] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit ("Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com")
  15. [00:16:44] <hober> so would the UA stick one of these widgets on any fieldsets with display:none?
  16. [00:17:33] <hober> or would the document author say "put a widget on this fieldset" via a new css rule?
  17. [00:17:58] <hober> display: none; toggle-dude: yes;
  18. [00:18:31] <Hixie> or binding: disclosure-widget; maybe
  19. [00:18:32] <Hixie> yeah, dunno
  20. [00:22:26] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=5154 * Tantek * (+343)
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  25. [00:54:27] <hober> where'd the comments go? http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2006/02/21/gym-camp/
  26. [00:54:47] <factoryjoe> ?
  27. [00:55:01] <factoryjoe> !!
  28. [00:55:02] <factoryjoe> omg
  29. [00:55:03] <factoryjoe> wtf
  30. [00:55:10] <factoryjoe> crap
  31. [00:55:16] <factoryjoe> textdrive must've effed up
  32. [00:55:45] <factoryjoe> shyte
  33. [00:57:11] <factoryjoe> ALL MY COMMENTS ARE GONE!!!!
  34. [00:58:05] <hober> oh dude, that sucks
  35. [00:58:37] <factoryjoe> how the hell did that happen?!
  36. [00:58:49] * cee-dub|showr is now known as cee-dub
  37. [00:58:55] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("Getting work done.")
  38. [01:00:22] <Hixie> i keep looking for a "specs" links every time i go to microformats.org
  39. [01:00:25] * Hixie clicks "wiki"
  40. [01:03:33] <kingryan> Hixie, that's the opposite critique of most people
  41. [01:03:51] <kingryan> :D
  42. [01:04:09] <kingryan> most say "omg, specs! what do I do?!"
  43. [01:04:19] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@67.188.37.174) Quit ()
  44. [01:06:53] * bear_dinner is now known as bear
  45. [01:09:51] <Hixie> heh
  46. [01:14:50] * kingryan (n=kingryan@138.202.171.107) Quit ()
  47. [01:17:42] <Hixie> i really wish there was a proper spec for these microformats
  48. [01:17:53] <Hixie> with clear UA and document conformance criteria
  49. [01:20:43] <factoryjoe> yes
  50. [01:21:39] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  51. [01:24:27] <pnhChris> wikis are good for a lot of things, but presenting a couple of different documents that can both be considered static and in sync isn't one of em
  52. [01:25:02] <Hixie> oh i don't think it's the wiki that's the problem
  53. [01:25:07] <Hixie> :-)
  54. [01:25:45] * pnhChris looks around the room
  55. [01:32:30] <tantek> Hixie, we're documenting these things as fast as we can. I presume you understand the challenge. ;)
  56. [01:32:31] * foolswisdom (n=lloyd@c-69-181-81-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  57. [01:34:10] <Hixie> not fast enough :-P
  58. [01:34:20] * Hixie moves <card> and <calendar> back to may
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  73. [03:56:55] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  74. [04:10:55] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  75. [04:10:55] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  76. [05:36:02] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) has joined #microformats
  77. [05:36:03] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  80. [06:14:44] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  81. [06:14:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  82. [06:20:41] <factoryjoe> tantek: hey man
  83. [06:20:44] <factoryjoe> get my email?
  84. [06:54:39] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  85. [07:12:46] * tantek replied.
  86. [07:22:49] <KevinMarks> evening
  87. [07:34:26] <factoryjoe> tantek: you still around?
  88. [07:34:28] <factoryjoe> got your reply
  89. [07:34:33] <factoryjoe> tomorrow am would be good
  90. [07:37:13] <Frederic> Hello
  91. [07:37:43] <factoryjoe> hi
  92. [07:39:49] <KevinMarks> hi chaps
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  96. [08:17:45] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
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  104. [12:56:48] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  106. [14:38:11] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
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  109. [14:43:23] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  110. [14:54:17] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-81-161-155.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  111. [14:54:17] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  112. [14:58:53] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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  115. [15:21:18] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  116. [15:21:20] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  119. [15:40:08] <dglazkov> http://www.capital.edu
  120. [15:40:24] <dglazkov> work in progress, please don't try to validate HTML :) yet
  121. [15:43:19] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  122. [15:43:20] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  123. [16:08:43] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  124. [16:10:02] * pnhChris thinks http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-examples needs a big fat "don't read this" stamp
  125. [16:10:54] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
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  127. [16:21:10] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
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  133. [17:03:52] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  134. [17:04:04] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  135. [17:04:50] <RobertBachmann> hi Tantek. What's the status of "content" opacity for hAtom?
  136. [17:05:47] <RobertBachmann> http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom says only <cite> and <blockquote> should be opaque ... while http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-hints still has the opacity rules
  137. [17:07:16] <tantek> hi Robert
  138. [17:07:19] <RobertBachmann> only <cite> and <blockquote> inside of class=~entry-content, that is.
  139. [17:07:21] <tantek> most opacity for hAtom is disappearing
  140. [17:07:29] <tantek> because it is unnecessary
  141. [17:07:37] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  142. [17:10:22] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2468P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  143. [17:13:58] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
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  145. [17:16:44] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N133P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  146. [17:17:22] <RobertBachmann> So only <cite> and <blockquote> are to be treated opaque? Why not also <q>?
  147. [17:24:05] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  148. [17:24:06] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  149. [17:26:16] <mfbot> [[Template:out-of-date]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Template:out-of-date * RobertBachmann * (+162) Template for marking out-of-date pages
  150. [17:27:35] * rohit__ (n=rohit@c-68-48-90-196.hsd1.md.comcast.net) Quit ()
  151. [17:28:02] <mfbot> [[hatom-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-examples&diff=0&oldid=5155 * RobertBachmann * (+17) hAtom examples - Added out-of-date marker
  152. [17:29:34] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  153. [17:30:15] <factoryjoe> http://opmlcamp.com/?p=7#comments
  154. [17:38:14] <mfbot> [[include-pattern]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=include-pattern&diff=0&oldid=5156 * Brian * (+109) Added Note 4 to prevent self-referencial includes
  155. [17:39:38] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.114.8.7) Quit ()
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  157. [17:43:54] <RobertBachmann> OPML is very important for microformats...
  158. [17:44:00] <RobertBachmann> an example how you should _not_ do it ;-)
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  160. [17:57:58] <jibot> limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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  167. [18:39:45] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  176. [19:15:23] <jibot> karlUshi is karlcow
  177. [19:18:20] <yakk> ponderous
  178. [19:18:43] <yakk> is there an xpath equivalent of css' ~=
  179. [19:18:44] * _psychic1 (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  180. [19:19:00] <yakk> for testing if an attribute has a value in a list?
  181. [19:23:55] * _psychic1 (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has left #microformats
  182. [19:24:01] <dglazkov> contains(str1, str2)?
  183. [19:26:37] <yakk> dglazkov, I was just playing with contains, but it does a substring search rather than list processing
  184. [19:26:58] <yakk> so contains (@class, 'fn') will return true for class="fnord"
  185. [19:27:24] <dglazkov> what about contains(concat(@class, ' '), 'fn ')?
  186. [19:27:27] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
  187. [19:27:34] <yakk> aha
  188. [19:27:52] <yakk> markp does some magick with concat and normalize-space
  189. [19:27:58] <dglazkov> ew
  190. [19:28:00] <dglazkov> :)
  191. [19:28:06] <dglazkov> but it works
  192. [19:28:09] <hober> dglazkov: well, you want the equivalent of (^|\b)fn(\b|$)
  193. [19:28:09] <yakk> well
  194. [19:28:10] <markp> no ew
  195. [19:28:13] <markp> it's what normalize-space is *for*
  196. [19:28:34] <yakk> concat(' ', normalize-space(@class), ' ') is kinda ew
  197. [19:28:48] <yakk> compared to ~=
  198. [19:28:57] <yakk> but anyhoo, it'll do
  199. [19:29:04] <dglazkov> markp, 'ew' to no list processing in xpath, not normalize-space
  200. [19:29:17] <markp> oh
  201. [19:29:19] <markp> yeah
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  205. [19:49:09] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  206. [19:49:18] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  207. [20:02:22] * DanC noodles on hCalendar and travel itineraries
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  217. [20:20:24] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
  218. [20:22:48] * cee-dub is now known as cee-dub|lunch
  219. [20:27:26] * _psychic1 (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) has joined #microformats
  220. [20:29:47] * _psychic1 is now known as _psychic_
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  222. [20:30:59] * cee-dub|lunch (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-22-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  223. [20:32:01] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-22-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  224. [20:35:25] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=Rob@c210-49-86-184.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  225. [20:35:26] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  226. [20:51:26] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-22-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  227. [21:10:25] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  228. [21:12:37] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  229. [21:12:37] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  230. [21:13:01] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  231. [21:24:15] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=Rob@c210-49-86-184.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  232. [21:29:59] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit ()
  233. [21:31:13] * bergie (n=bergie@cs78246093.pp.htv.fi) Quit ()
  234. [21:38:41] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@66.83.191.30.nw.nuvox.net) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox 1.5.0.1/2006011112]")
  235. [21:39:56] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
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  237. [21:57:52] * bkdelong (n=bkdelong@h-67-102-164-116.cmbrmaor.covad.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  238. [22:02:47] <mfbot> [[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=5157 * Tantek * (+184)
  239. [22:19:24] * cee-dub (n=cee-dub@adsl-71-132-22-194.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  240. [22:21:52] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
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  245. [23:27:49] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  246. [23:27:50] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  247. [23:27:54] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  248. [23:31:00] * edsu (n=esummers@66.187.134.52) Quit ("leaving")
  249. [23:45:46] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-187-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  250. [23:45:47] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  251. [23:45:56] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek

These logs were automatically created by mflogbot on chat.freenode.net using a modified version of the Java IRC LogBot.

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