IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-02-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  7. [00:58:46] <TantekC> hey Robert
  8. [00:58:54] <TantekC> looks like pastebin can't handle UTF-8 :(
  9. [00:59:04] <TantekC> it corrupted letters in my name and H�kon's name to begin with.
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  12. [01:03:26] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  13. [01:03:44] <RobertBachmann> hrm.
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  16. [01:08:45] <hober> tantek: how does lisppaste fare? http://paste.lisp.org/
  17. [01:09:00] <RobertBachmann> should work now http://uf.pastebin.com/pastebin.php?diff=572654
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  25. [01:35:55] <TantekC> yes, much better
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  27. [01:40:21] <TantekC> alright, i'll add some hCalendar
  28. [01:43:26] <RobertBachmann> I've already tried to do so
  29. [01:44:42] <RobertBachmann> http://uf.pastebin.com/pastebin.php?diff=572705 (DisclaimeR: I've never used hCalendar)
  30. [01:45:15] <RobertBachmann> I've only added summary, description and dtstart.
  31. [01:54:03] <TantekC> oh ok, i'll take a look
  32. [01:54:19] <TantekC> it's ok if you haven't done it before, best way to learn is to start!
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  36. [02:19:52] <jibot> andyhume is Andrew D. Hume and blogs at http://thedredge.org/ and has a wonderful use of hCards for commenters (see http://thedredge.org/2005/06/using-hcards-in-your-blog/ for details)
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  41. [03:17:30] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  46. [03:54:19] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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  60. [07:05:26] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  67. [07:45:08] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  69. [07:50:09] <tantek> RobertBachmann (when you come back), here is my iteration on your addition of hCard and hCalendar to the W3C Technical Plenary page schedule: http://tantek.com/microformats/2006/03-01-TechPlenAgenda.html
  70. [07:54:34] <tantek> it works well with X2V for both the hCards and hCalendar events
  71. [07:55:12] <tantek> though the interesting thing is, there are some issues with the same person having multiple vcards in the same file with some addressbook programs. i will document on the wiki
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  75. [08:04:09] <mfbot> [[User:Steve Ganz]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:Steve_Ganz&diff=0&oldid=5175 * Steve Ganz * (+13)
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  77. [08:14:35] <mfbot> [[vcard-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=vcard-implementations&diff=0&oldid=5176 * Tantek * (+521) noted that Apple Address Book adds same person multiple times from a .vcf file
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  93. [11:35:29] <jibot> andyhume is Andrew D. Hume and blogs at http://thedredge.org/ and has a wonderful use of hCards for commenters (see http://thedredge.org/2005/06/using-hcards-in-your-blog/ for details)
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  98. [11:53:25] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
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  107. [13:44:45] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  114. [15:53:03] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5177 * Tantek * (+378) added Attending section with some folks. please addd yourself if attending!
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  117. [16:19:01] <jibot> andyhume is Andrew D. Hume and blogs at http://thedredge.org/ and has a wonderful use of hCards for commenters (see http://thedredge.org/2005/06/using-hcards-in-your-blog/ for details)
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  119. [16:27:22] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  120. [16:31:05] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5178 * Tantek * (+41)
  121. [16:33:46] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-01-w3c-plenary-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-01-w3c-plenary-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5179 * Tantek * (+245)
  122. [16:35:47] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5180 * Tantek * (+238)
  123. [16:36:28] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=5181 * Tantek * (+238) New Examples -
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  130. [17:30:50] <tantek> Thanks to RobertBachmann for helpin��Ͱt with adding hCard and hCalendar markup to W3C TP Agenda page.
  131. [17:31:18] <tantek> here is the page with hCard and hCalendar if anyone wants to try importing it and see what they get: http://tantek.com/microformats/2006/03-01-TechPlenAgenda.html
  132. [17:31:42] <tantek> is anyone around who can help with adding hCard and hCalendar to the O'Reilly ETech pages?
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  135. [17:51:51] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5182 * Tantek * (+1126) found ETech schedule, and they have some hCalendar! but it needs some work too.
  136. [17:53:04] <tantek> I've collected the list of specific pages/URLs on the ETech 2006 site that need updating with hCalendar (fixes) or hCard (additions), please take a look and see if you can take a page and help mark it up: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats#To_Do
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  138. [18:06:00] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  139. [18:06:09] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  140. [18:06:28] <tantek> Hi Robert, take a look at my iteration on your markup: http://tantek.com/microformats/2006/03-01-TechPlenAgenda.html
  141. [18:07:05] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  142. [18:08:38] * RobertBachmann has a look
  143. [18:13:59] <tantek> and when you have a chance, take a look at some of the ETech pages that need some hCard too: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats#To_Do
  144. [18:15:40] <RobertBachmann> I'll start with <http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/43/program.html>
  145. [18:16:01] <tantek> I'd stay start with the hCard only pages for now
  146. [18:16:09] <RobertBachmann> ok
  147. [18:16:17] <tantek> because it looks like they've added hCalendar support to the event pages, modulo a few bugs
  148. [18:16:36] <tantek> and I have a feeling that all they need to do is tweak one or two places in their CMS to fix that
  149. [18:16:45] <tantek> but AFAIK, there are no hCards on the pages
  150. [18:16:48] <tantek> so those would be very helpful
  151. [18:16:59] <RobertBachmann> ok so I'll start with http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/43/invite.html
  152. [18:17:07] <tantek> awesome
  153. [18:17:49] <tantek> in the process of iterating on your markup of the W3C page, I realized there are a bunch of "rules of thumb" for adding hCard markup to existing content that I really need to write up on the wiki
  154. [18:18:02] <tantek> did you notice some of the changes I made?
  155. [18:19:16] <RobertBachmann> Yes ... I'm currently comparing the two pages in WinMerge.
  156. [18:20:45] <tantek> that page is a good sample for discussion about what to markup with which hCard property and why
  157. [18:21:14] <tantek> because in many cases it was not obvious and took some thinking/consideration of what would work best among several alternatives
  158. [18:23:38] <mfbot> [[hcard-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-examples&diff=0&oldid=5183 * RobertBachmann * (+5) hCard examples - Changed "=" to <h1>
  159. [18:26:33] <RobertBachmann> I noticed you never used vCards role.
  160. [18:34:13] <RobertBachmann> argl. invalid html
  161. [18:38:39] <tantek> the challenge with role is what does it really mean or supposed to be used for?
  162. [18:38:49] <tantek> according to RFC 2426 sec. 3.5.2
  163. [18:39:03] <tantek> it is based on the X.520 Business Category explanatory attributge
  164. [18:39:06] <tantek> attribute even
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  166. [18:39:37] <tantek> that seems to imply a specific taxonomy, for which I have been unable to find definitive documentation
  167. [18:39:59] <tantek> and the only example given in that section is ROLE:Programmer
  168. [18:40:37] <tantek> from that, role seems very generic, something much more general than a job title in particular
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  171. [18:53:05] <mfbot> [[hatom]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=5184 * RobertBachmann * (-22) Implementations - hAtom2Atom - new link
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  175. [19:06:26] <mfbot> [[hatom]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom&diff=0&oldid=5185 * RobertBachmann * (+108) Examples in the wild -
  176. [19:12:45] * andyhume (n=andyhume@82-69-100-15.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) Quit ()
  177. [19:13:25] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2448P016.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  178. [19:13:57] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2477P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  179. [19:23:43] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2477P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
  180. [19:24:08] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N138P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  181. [19:24:13] <RobertBachmann> http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/43/invite.html -> http://uf.pastebin.com/pastebin.php?diff=573658
  182. [19:36:55] <TantekC> that looks pretty good
  183. [19:37:01] <TantekC> a few things
  184. [19:37:14] <TantekC> the class name for the phone is "tel" not "phone"
  185. [19:38:04] <TantekC> and finally, hCards for orgs need both "fn" and "org" class names on their names
  186. [19:38:07] <TantekC> e.g. this: <span class="org">O'Reilly Media, Inc.</span>
  187. [19:38:14] <TantekC> should be: <span class="fn org">O'Reilly Media, Inc.</span>
  188. [19:38:31] <TantekC> try making those changes and then running the results through http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/
  189. [19:42:44] * TheMaecenati (n=TheMaece@adsl-71-132-212-69.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  190. [19:51:08] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@N138P031.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  191. [20:08:19] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2461P010.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  192. [20:08:19] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
  193. [20:12:42] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  194. [20:12:57] <tantek> hi again Robert. did you get my previous suggested improvements for invite.html?
  195. [20:14:04] <RobertBachmann> yes, -> http://uf.pastebin.com/pastebin.php?diff=573723
  196. [20:14:59] <RobertBachmann> you can use http://uf.pastebin.com/pastebin.php?dl=573723 with http://feeds.technorati.com/contact/
  197. [20:24:04] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=5186 * Tim White * (+12) Contributors -
  198. [20:25:40] <tantek> looking good Robert.
  199. [20:25:53] <tantek> I just noticed one more thing, which may or may not be worth fixing, but it is worth a shot
  200. [20:26:13] <tantek> both 'contacts' that you just changed on invite.html have email addresses generated by javascript
  201. [20:26:40] <tantek> both could be modified to also output class="email"
  202. [20:27:48] * andyhume (n=andyhume@82-69-100-15.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  203. [20:27:49] <jibot> andyhume is Andrew D. Hume and blogs at http://thedredge.org/ and has a wonderful use of hCards for commenters (see http://thedredge.org/2005/06/using-hcards-in-your-blog/ for details)
  204. [20:32:31] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  205. [20:32:31] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  206. [20:34:56] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues&diff=0&oldid=5187 * PigsOTWing * (+274) default range -
  207. [20:36:05] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.1.228.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) has joined #microformats
  208. [20:37:07] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=5188 * Tim White * (+27609)
  209. [20:45:12] * keithalexander (n=keithale@87.112.1.228.bbplus.ptn-ag1.dyn.plus.net) Quit ()
  210. [20:46:35] <RobertBachmann> I'll change the javascripts. I've added some hcards to http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/43/speakers.html
  211. [20:46:35] <RobertBachmann> -> http://uf.pastebin.com/pastebin.php?diff=573790
  212. [20:48:00] <RobertBachmann> seems like that text is to long for pastebin
  213. [20:55:23] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=5189 * Mike * (+1224)
  214. [21:09:48] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  215. [21:09:49] <jibot> blake is allegedly human. Blake, also known as Cortland M. Setlow, studies at swarthmore.edu and enjoys building things, exploring buildings, and physics. He currently sleeps during the day.
  216. [21:12:15] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues&diff=0&oldid=5190 * Tantek * (+234) PigsOTWing, please RTFM.
  217. [21:13:52] <Jonnay> Err, how do you add a description of yourself to jibot? is it just a ?learn ?
  218. [21:14:02] <RobertBachmann> yes
  219. [21:14:11] <Jonnay> Thanks.
  220. [21:15:28] <RobertBachmann> Tantek, here's invite.html with class="email" added to the JS generated content. http://rbach.priv.at/repos/misc/microformatting/ETech2006/invite.html
  221. [21:15:55] <tantek> odd, your server is serving it as text/plain
  222. [21:16:26] <mfbot> [[citation-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-examples&diff=0&oldid=5191 * Tim White * (+1507)
  223. [21:16:28] <RobertBachmann> yes, it servered by mod_svn ...
  224. [21:16:41] <RobertBachmann> which serves everything as text/plain
  225. [21:17:03] <tantek> ah
  226. [21:17:03] <RobertBachmann> by default
  227. [21:17:22] <tantek> btw, anyone know who PigsOTWing is?
  228. [21:17:50] <Jonnay> Not i.
  229. [21:17:55] * tantek is less and less convinced of the utility of letting people use non-real names for wiki logins.
  230. [21:19:25] <Jonnay> ?def jonnay a programmer, artist, musician, and father. Jonnay is the developer of Meditation, a REST API Framework for PHP.
  231. [21:19:25] <jibot> jonnay a programmer, artist, musician, and father. Jonnay is the developer of Meditation, a REST API Framework for PHP.
  232. [21:20:06] * RobertBachmann just loves svn
  233. [21:20:25] <Jonnay> Mmm. SVN is like mana from heaven.
  234. [21:20:40] <RobertBachmann> I've found about svn:mime-type. Now the files should be served as text/html
  235. [21:20:41] <tantek> Robert, this is looking very good.
  236. [21:20:44] <Jonnay> tantek: Agreed. I am a big fan of RealNamesOnlyPlease...
  237. [21:22:07] <tantek> Robert, you could make the "For media-related..." line into an hCard in invite.html
  238. [21:22:34] <tantek> ooh, and it looks like the org fn bit got reverted too
  239. [21:22:37] <tantek> i'm seeing: <span class="org">O'Reilly Media, Inc.</span>
  240. [21:24:17] <tantek> which should be <span class="org fn">O'Reilly Media, Inc.</span> near the bottom of the page
  241. [21:31:06] <RobertBachmann> fixed both
  242. [21:33:16] <tantek> oh, BTW, I realized that the "email" in the javascript *will* make a difference - to Magicline, and any other DOM based microformats parsers/extractors
  243. [21:33:32] <tantek> e.g. I bet the Tails extension to Firefox will pick it up as well
  244. [21:34:36] <tantek> Robert, this is looking really good.
  245. [21:34:53] <tantek> Stick a <base href=".."> tag in there that points to the original document and all the images and styles should show up nicely.
  246. [21:35:32] <tantek> Hi Jonnay, welcome to the channel. Have you been around here much?
  247. [21:37:16] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  248. [21:37:19] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
  249. [21:38:00] <Jonnay> Not really no. Just found out about microformats on friday, starting to play with them a little on my portfolio site.
  250. [21:39:11] <tantek> ah very good. definitely ask here if you have any questions.
  251. [21:39:56] <Jonnay> 'm really interested in the REST<->microformats combination.. particularly AHAH
  252. [21:40:18] <RobertBachmann> add <base>
  253. [21:40:22] <tantek> yes, AHAH has gotten quite a bit good reception
  254. [21:40:30] <RobertBachmann> added*
  255. [21:41:20] <Jonnay> Everything just seems so blindingly... obvious.
  256. [21:41:38] * izo_ (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  257. [21:42:39] <Jonnay> or rather blindingly obvious after someone does the work of figuring it out.
  258. [21:46:28] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5192 * Tantek * (+317) noted which pages need hCards. RobertBachmann has completed invite.html
  259. [21:47:28] <tantek> nicely done Robert, I think invite.html is good to go. With those changes/edits in mind could you take a look at the remaining "Need hCards" pages? I'd say leave speakers for last since it is the biggest (unless you can figure out some clear global search and replace actions that make it quick -- that's how I managed to markup 107 speakers for the Web 2.0 conference this past October)
  260. [21:48:28] <tantek> Jonnay, indeed. It's amazing how the *lack* of something can be an innovation. E.g. simplification and reduction can be provide incredible benefits, without being obvious at first.
  261. [21:52:45] <RobertBachmann> ok, I'll pick the next one.
  262. [21:52:54] <tantek> Robert, having now tested your invite.html with X2V
  263. [21:53:03] <tantek> I noticed just *one more* thing that could help
  264. [21:53:10] <RobertBachmann> yes?
  265. [21:53:16] <tantek> for the contacts at the bottom
  266. [21:53:24] <tantek> perhaps put their "purpose" into a <span class="note">
  267. [21:53:26] <tantek> e.g.
  268. [21:54:00] <tantek> right now it has: For media sponsor opportunities, contact <span class="fn">Margi Levin</span>
  269. [21:54:14] <tantek> and all you get is Margi's name in the address book
  270. [21:54:17] <tantek> it might help to have
  271. [21:54:23] <tantek> <span class="note">For media sponsor opportunities, contact <span class="fn">Margi Levin</span> </span>
  272. [21:54:46] <tantek> That way you at least know *why* this person was added from the page.
  273. [21:55:35] * tantek trying to squeeze the last bits of context/details out of the page. ;)
  274. [21:56:10] <tantek> same for For sponsorship opportunities, and For media-related inquiries
  275. [21:56:49] <RobertBachmann> done
  276. [21:57:59] <RobertBachmann> next one: <http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/43/register.html> ?
  277. [21:58:05] <tantek> yes, makes sense
  278. [21:58:08] <tantek> testing ...
  279. [21:59:02] <tantek> yep. invite.html works great.
  280. [21:59:34] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5193 * Tantek * (+37)
  281. [22:00:25] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  282. [22:20:32] <RobertBachmann> fax: 1-2-3 becomes <span class="tel"><span class="type">fax</span>: 1-2-3</span>?
  283. [22:21:36] <tantek> yes, or more explicitly, you can use class="value"
  284. [22:21:37] <tantek> e.g.
  285. [22:21:51] <tantek> <span class="tel"><span class="type">fax</span>: <span class="value">1-2-3</span></span>
  286. [22:21:59] <tantek> in order to avoid having the ":" show up in the phone number
  287. [22:56:51] <tantek> hey Jonnay, still here?
  288. [22:57:35] <tantek> if you have found REST/microformats/ AHAH useful, please consider going to the SXSW People's Choice awards site and voting for microformats: https://secure.sxsw.com/peoples_choice/
  289. [23:13:08] <RobertBachmann> http://rbach.priv.at/repos/misc/microformatting/ETech2006/register.html
  290. [23:14:37] <tantek> reviewing...
  291. [23:16:34] <tantek> too bad about their misuse of the <address> element.
  292. [23:16:51] <tantek> but you are right to not change it, we're trying to make minimal changes
  293. [23:19:28] <RobertBachmann> g2g
  294. [23:19:33] <RobertBachmann> bye
  295. [23:19:34] <tantek> thanks Robert!
  296. [23:19:35] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2461P010.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  297. [23:21:51] * blake (n=blake@dsl093-240-087.ral1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  298. [23:22:32] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5194 * Tantek * (+113) RobertBachmann has added hCard to register.html
  299. [23:32:03] <mfbot> [[events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-03-07-etech-microformats&diff=0&oldid=5195 * Tantek * (+193)
  300. [23:32:26] <tantek> anybody else here want to try their hands at adding hCard markup to some existing O'Reilly ETech conference pages?
  301. [23:32:30] <tantek> it would be a big help

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