IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-03-16
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:13:48] <amanuel>
http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo-brainstorming
- [00:14:26] <amanuel>
I think as a min. class="xoxo" should exist to help parsers know there is some work to do
- [00:14:40] <amanuel>
I like the approach of xoxo blogroll
- [00:14:56] <amanuel>
but I understand the danger of that
- [00:17:02] <amanuel>
so to answer you question I think yes if the list has a class="xoxo" it can be considered as xoxo
- [00:17:34] <amanuel>
otherwise, it a list for some purpose.
- [00:18:08] <amanuel>
as for xoxo documents as a whole I am not sure the best approach
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- [02:48:04] <bewest>
if you were trying to pass a vcard through a URL, how would you encode it?
- [02:48:17] <bewest>
I've currently got the markup base64_encoded'd but it's a bit long
- [02:48:35] <bewest>
thinking perhaps simple pipe delimiting or something
- [02:49:11] <bewest>
http://nearwhere.com/guest/ will take an hcard and put it on a map
- [02:49:18] <bewest>
that you can pass around to friends or whatever
- [03:03:28] <KevinMarks>
pass it by reference?
- [03:07:39] <KevinMarks>
http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xhtml-rdfa-primer-20060310/ shows signs of microfromat influence
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- [03:14:05] <bewest>
by reference?
- [03:14:07] <bewest>
in a url
- [03:14:29] <bewest>
right now the data is in the url. what do you mean by reference?
- [03:14:36] <bewest>
index into a table somewhere?
- [03:14:45] <bewest>
then we are responsible for hosting content
- [03:14:58] <bewest>
and responsible for the content hosted
- [03:15:00] <bewest>
which gets messy
- [03:15:02] <KevinMarks>
a URL to the page the hcard is on
- [03:15:09] <bewest>
it's not on a page
- [03:15:11] <bewest>
they fill out a form
- [03:15:14] <bewest>
and follow the link
- [03:15:18] <KevinMarks>
ah
- [03:15:22] <bewest>
we'll put it on a marker on a map
- [03:15:31] <KevinMarks>
well, if it's a form you can POST the hCard
- [03:15:42] <bewest>
if it's POST then you can't pass the link around
- [03:15:48] <KevinMarks>
true
- [03:15:51] <bewest>
idea is to pass them around
- [03:15:59] <bewest>
like hey, here's where the party is
- [03:16:04] <bewest>
follow this link
- [03:16:04] <KevinMarks>
but not to store them anywhere?
- [03:16:09] <bewest>
and bam it's an hcard on a map
- [03:16:21] <bewest>
storage means responsibility
- [03:16:28] <bewest>
what if someone puts obscene crap in there
- [03:16:37] <bewest>
hrm
- [03:16:42] <bewest>
might have to just bite the bullet
- [03:16:48] <KevinMarks>
you have common carrier exemption
- [03:17:15] <KevinMarks>
you'll end up with mapquest-like URLs otehrwise
- [03:18:37] <bewest>
yeah the URL's are nightmarish
- [03:19:23] <KevinMarks>
store the hCard, give them a url to the page with the hCard in, then it can be passed to otehr hCard-reading services
- [03:19:31] <KevinMarks>
or greasemony scripts
- [03:19:52] <bewest>
the url is to a page that attempts to put an hcard on a map
- [03:19:55] <bewest>
try it out
- [03:20:01] <bewest>
http://nearwhere.com/guest/
- [03:21:04] <bewest>
I'd like to keep it as an hcard so that any greasemonkey script that sees it can scarf it up
- [03:21:27] <KevinMarks>
look at how we do it with feeds.technorati.com
- [03:21:36] <KevinMarks>
you cna pass that a url and it finds the hcards
- [03:23:35] <bewest>
this wouldn't work with such a thing
- [03:23:40] <bewest>
it's not published with the html
- [03:23:46] <bewest>
it's published when the javascript renders it
- [03:24:02] <bewest>
mostly because it gets slapped on a google map
- [03:28:01] <KevinMarks>
I mean, if you have an hcard to google maps tool, make it able to accept hCrads by URL
- [03:28:16] <KevinMarks>
so I coudl pass it tanteks page and have it put him on a map
- [03:29:55] <bewest>
oh
- [03:30:03] <bewest>
yeah
- [03:30:06] <bewest>
that's a great idea
- [03:30:07] <bewest>
hmm
- [03:30:09] <bewest>
yeah
- [03:30:28] <bewest>
that'd be easier in some ways
- [03:30:30] <bewest>
maybe
- [03:30:46] <bewest>
I never thought of that
- [03:30:52] <bewest>
I'll add it to the list
- [03:31:14] <bewest>
KevinMarks: thanks for the idea
- [03:31:37] <KevinMarks>
this is the http as a pipe idea
- [03:31:44] <bewest>
yeah
- [03:31:52] <KevinMarks>
if you ahve services that take URLs you cna start chaining them
- [03:31:58] <bewest>
it's gonna be awhile before I get to that
- [03:32:11] <bewest>
part of our idea is to make what we have exportable by URL
- [03:32:18] <KevinMarks>
right
- [03:32:31] <bewest>
like, if you include a bit of html after filling out our form
- [03:32:43] <bewest>
you can include one of these maps on your page
- [03:32:46] <KevinMarks>
your form could store there data and redirect to a permlaink fro that url
- [03:33:00] <KevinMarks>
er, fro that hcard
- [03:33:02] <bewest>
you could sign in and add several places instead of just one by url
- [03:33:07] <bewest>
but I like your idea too
- [03:33:14] <bewest>
where we take a URL as a parameter
- [03:33:20] <bewest>
consume the hcard and put IT on the map
- [03:33:41] <bewest>
but it would either require an explicit geo "triplet" in the url to match our own format, or a GEO in the hcard itself
- [03:33:42] <KevinMarks>
which could then be passed to other hcard service like the technorati-hosted X2V that puts it into a vcard
- [03:34:02] <bewest>
right now though, we are just trying to shorten the URL's
- [03:34:07] <bewest>
they are too long
- [03:34:13] <bewest>
and IE will truncate at some point
- [03:34:39] <KevinMarks>
and email will wrap them
- [03:34:46] <bewest>
considering gzcompress() + base64_encode in php which would keep it well under 200 for even rather "large" chunks of data
- [03:34:52] <bewest>
but I think it would still wrap in email
- [03:35:16] <bewest>
partner wants to cut the cruft in the url, and do simple pipe delimiting and reconstruct it on the recieving page
- [03:38:47] <KevinMarks>
why not just use ?fn=Kevin+Marks&geo=34.1,102 etc?
- [03:39:18] <KevinMarks>
thought that will fail wiht nested ones won't it
- [03:41:08] <bewest>
maybe
- [03:41:16] <bewest>
I'll probably cave to pipe delimiting
- [03:42:14] <KevinMarks>
putting stuff liek that in URLs seems awkward; you're goign to end up having to make a whole other parser
- [03:51:36] <bewest>
hmmmm
- [03:51:48] <bewest>
well then
- [03:52:13] <bewest>
is there some code or a web service already available that will parse {a,several} hcard[s] out of a given url?
- [03:52:24] <bewest>
obviously technorati has one....
- [03:57:23] <KevinMarks>
it's x2v
- [03:57:38] <KevinMarks>
though thats in xslt
- [04:00:22] <bewest>
microformat base is close
- [04:00:27] <bewest>
oh x2v has something workable?
- [04:00:35] <bewest>
I guess xslt would be ok
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limbo_ is Eran and blogs at http://hellonline.com/blog/
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- [05:26:01] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [06:32:32] <mfbot>
[[xoxo-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=xoxo-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=5419 * Chris Messina * (+113) Subscription information -
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- [07:45:39] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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karlUshi is karlcow
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- [13:31:36] <jibot>
bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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- [14:27:12] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [14:28:22] <jibot>
raxor is in southern California, near LA
- [14:29:04] <raxor>
Silly question: can you have more than one hCard per page?
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- [14:36:02] <raxor>
ping?
- [14:42:13] <schepers>
pong
- [14:43:30] <raxor>
:)
- [14:45:39] <_fil_>
raxor: yes of course you can have very many
- [14:49:44] <raxor>
_fil_: how does the title made disctinct for the various hCards when translated to vCard?
- [14:49:58] <raxor>
s/how does/how is/
- [14:51:14] <raxor>
"Card to vCard converters SHOULD use the title of the page where the hCard is found"
- [14:51:44] <raxor>
if you can't use NAME in your hCard and each page has only one title, there seems to be a problem...
- [14:52:50] <raxor>
second question: is it possible to utilize two different profiles for a single page?
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- [14:55:56] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
- [14:57:41] <_fil_>
razor: I just don't find the examples, but there are nice examples :) somewhere
- [14:58:07] <_fil_>
to use two profiles I guess you can put them one after the other in the header
- [14:58:27] <microformats>
Hi all, I'm new, I'm a french developer and I'm currently studying microformats. I've a question about 'adr', 'hCard' and 'hCalendar'.
- [14:58:47] * microformats is now known as olivierd
- [14:59:07] <_fil_>
bonjour olivierd
- [14:59:22] <olivierd>
salut _fil_
- [14:59:38] <raxor>
_fil_: maybe here http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples
- [15:00:33] <olivierd>
my question is about 'adr' for 'vcard' and 'location' for 'vevent'
- [15:01:13] <_fil_>
raxor: that's it: http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/
- [15:01:33] <olivierd>
why there is no adr into vevent ?
- [15:02:31] <olivierd>
I think it's is the same thing.. but in http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-classes there is a line "location vevent hCalendar Intended venue of object. (Not to be confused with adr)"
- [15:05:09] <olivierd>
anybody may help me to get the answer ?
- [15:05:31] <raxor>
olivierd, I don't know unfortunately...
- [15:06:27] <_fil_>
nope
- [15:06:32] <_fil_>
sorry
- [15:06:59] <olivierd>
arg ...
- [15:07:56] <raxor>
why does location not work?
- [15:10:07] <olivierd>
well the example into the hCalendar wiki page use 'location'
- [15:10:52] <olivierd>
the location seems to be 'less detailed' than the 'adr' available for the hCard
- [15:11:01] <raxor>
I see
- [15:11:26] <olivierd>
IMO I think it is the same kind of data
- [15:11:32] <raxor>
right
- [15:11:49] <raxor>
Well there is a proposed adr format separatel
- [15:11:53] <raxor>
separately...
- [15:12:12] <raxor>
you might be able to simply add an adr after the vevent
- [15:12:46] <raxor>
actually...
- [15:12:59] <olivierd>
after <span class="vevent">...</span> ?
- [15:14:02] <raxor>
that is what I was thinking, but according to the classes page, the vcard can contain a vevent as well.... so that might be better
- [15:14:36] <raxor>
uggg
- [15:14:53] <raxor>
no, I meant the opposite... the vevent can contain a vcard
- [15:16:29] <olivierd>
one might use a vcard with a adr instead of a location ? it's what you say ?
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- [15:17:10] <raxor>
as a guess
- [15:19:12] <olivierd>
it works for me :)
- [15:19:21] <raxor>
:)
- [15:19:29] <raxor>
good luck!
- [15:20:19] <olivierd>
thx I've discover microformats one week ago, and I found it's a great idea
- [15:20:32] <olivierd>
see you (I stay tune)
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- [15:21:44] * Atamido hopes someone updates http://microformats.org/wiki/existing-classes
- [15:27:34] <mfbot>
[[existing-classes]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=existing-classes&diff=0&oldid=5420 * Atamido * (+309) Fixed hcard, hreview, xoxo links
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- [15:31:56] <Atamido>
olivierd: I also found the adr/location thing a bit confusing, which is why I wrote "not to be confused with adr" under the location description.
- [15:32:41] <mfbot>
[[rel-enclosure]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-enclosure&diff=0&oldid=5421 * Eric Lunt * (+201) Implementations -
- [15:33:21] <Atamido>
It is my guess that you would use "location" for less formal geographic location information like "the Bob Bullock Museum" and use "adr" for more formal information like "13333-A Hwy 71 W, Bee Cave, TX 78738"
- [15:33:56] <Atamido>
BTW, are there more people in here than normal?
- [15:34:12] <Atamido>
It seems like the channel size is bigger than a week or two ago.
- [15:35:13] <olivierd>
hi Atamido, it's your "not to be confused with adr" that confused me :D
- [15:36:27] <Atamido>
:O
- [15:36:59] <olivierd>
and also the fact that the hCalendar does not mention adr compared with hCard
- [15:38:50] <olivierd>
the raxor's proposition and your precision (less formal geographic location information) put me in the picture
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- [15:39:01] <jibot>
cks is Christopher St. John and has a brain filled with inane drivel from irc chat logs
- [15:39:51] <Atamido>
Ah, I see.
- [15:40:43] <olivierd>
perhaps you may add a note about it into the hCalendar wiki ?
- [15:40:47] <Atamido>
That page is meant to let people see what names are already in use so they can re-use existing names for the same information or not use a name already being used for different information.
- [15:41:20] <Atamido>
So I just wanted to point out in there that there are two very similar names.
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- [15:42:07] <Atamido>
I think it is unfortunate that they didn't use "adr" in vCalender.
- [15:42:29] <olivierd>
I think so !
- [15:43:38] <Atamido>
Sadly, that standard has been around forever and there is nothing that can be done now.
- [15:46:04] <olivierd>
that's for sure...
- [15:49:01] <Atamido>
It may be good to allow "adr" to be used in hCalendar.
- [15:49:27] <Atamido>
A message to the mailing list would probably get a decent response.
- [15:50:07] <_fil_>
Atamido: microformats is going to have a huge success
- [15:50:09] <olivierd>
How to introduce this ?
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- [15:50:31] <_fil_>
if the sizeof(/names) is any indication
- [15:51:10] <Atamido>
Is some of this crowd from SXSW, or that thing last week?
- [15:52:29] <Atamido>
"Mashup" I think it was called?
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- [15:56:25] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [16:06:48] <Atamido>
olivierd: I just sent an email to the mailing list.
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- [16:09:22] <olivierd>
you pass me up :O ... I was just writing my post !
- [16:10:25] * Atamido didn't write a very long post. :P
- [16:11:33] * olivierd does not write quickly in English
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- [16:23:48] <mfbot>
[[rel-enclosure]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-enclosure&diff=0&oldid=5422 * Raster * (+66) Implementations - added embedthevideo.com note
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- [17:23:44] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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- [18:48:04] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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- [19:06:12] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: 01:00)
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- [19:12:33] <RobertBachmann>
anyone intressted in vCards represented as XML?
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- [19:31:55] <dglazkov>
RobertBachmann: xml?
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- [19:37:29] <RobertBachmann>
dglazkov: yes. I'm currently looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/2001/NOTE-vcard-rdf-20010222/#6
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- [19:40:05] <dglazkov>
ah, the excitement about XML. So 2001
- [19:40:14] <dglazkov>
:)
- [19:43:29] <RobertBachmann>
I'm currently searching for a workaround for Atom's crippled person construct.
- [19:44:03] <dglazkov>
can you not use hCard there?
- [19:45:17] <RobertBachmann>
unfortunatly hAtom's person element is text-only.
- [19:46:37] <RobertBachmann>
name element, that is
- [19:49:19] <dglazkov>
Atom, not hAtom, right?
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- [19:50:11] <RobertBachmann>
yes
- [19:50:12] <dglazkov>
I am not intimately familiar w/Atom spec or discussion on person/vcard/hcard
- [19:50:40] <dglazkov>
but if you're suggesting adding a namespace, why not add xhtml and do hcard anyway? :)
- [19:50:45] <RobertBachmann>
I'm currently reading http://www.intertwingly.net/wiki/pie/PaceBetterPersonElement / hCard proposal
- [19:51:15] <elsigh>
are new user registrations unavailable? I am being told: "You have not specified a valid user name."
- [19:51:32] <RobertBachmann>
You need a WikiName
- [19:51:40] <elsigh>
ah
- [19:51:54] <trovster>
<dglazkov> ah, the excitement about XML. So 2001 -- I must be living in 2001 too then!
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- [19:54:25] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5423 * LindseySimon * (+159) Examples in the wild -
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- [19:57:39] <dglazkov>
trovster: could it be just residual excitement? :)
- [20:01:53] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
- [20:03:12] <trovster>
Maybe :)
- [20:03:14] <jibot>
WildFox is Mr. KDOM. Co-author of kdom, ksvg and kcanvas.
- [20:03:21] <trovster>
I've just been playing with XSLT for RSS/Atom feeds.
- [20:04:07] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) Quit (Excess Flood)
- [20:04:09] * dglazkov used to love XSLT
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- [20:04:53] <trovster>
Care to critique what I've done?
- [20:05:10] <dglazkov>
sure
- [20:05:23] <trovster>
http://tam.creation2.com/xml/news-atom.xml
- [20:07:26] <dglazkov>
cute slider
- [20:07:41] <dglazkov>
why use element/attribute instructions?
- [20:08:06] <dglazkov>
in header that is
- [20:08:41] <dglazkov>
probably should've used apply-templates for entry
- [20:08:57] <trovster>
Pardon ;)
- [20:09:11] <dglazkov>
compact curly braces syntax for subscription buttons
- [20:10:26] <dglazkov>
slider's last notch doesn't do anything
- [20:10:52] <trovster>
Top end? Yeh :S Also, getting stuck for me at the bottom, others say it's fixed though
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- [20:11:15] <dglazkov>
but nice and clean-looking page
- [20:11:19] <trovster>
What you mean, compact curly braces?
- [20:12:06] <dglazkov>
<a href="{//atom:link[@rel='self']/@href}"> ...
- [20:13:26] <trovster>
<xsl:value-of select="//atom:link[@rel='self']/@href"/> here :S
- [20:13:31] <trovster>
Oh, I should have used {} ?
- [20:14:02] <dglazkov>
you could've. Just suggesting
- [20:15:19] <RobertBachmann>
class="blue" and class="white" sucks ;-)
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- [20:16:33] <dglazkov>
well... I agree, but it's really not in the markup
- [20:17:35] <trovster>
@ Me?
- [20:17:37] <dglazkov>
if it ain't in the markup, it doesn't exist
- [20:17:57] <RobertBachmann>
trovster: yes
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- [20:19:05] <trovster>
Goddamn, you're worse than me!!!
- [20:19:41] <RobertBachmann>
why?
- [20:20:33] <trovster>
Complaining about that, what do you propose I use instead, I can't use odd/even as it's not working like that on the main side
- [20:21:12] <dglazkov>
don't worry about it
- [20:21:31] <trovster>
Nah, I'm anal like RobertBachmann :)
- [20:27:02] <RobertBachmann>
class="something-meaningful-goes-here" ;-)
- [20:28:16] <RobertBachmann>
<div id="content-sidebar"><div class="white"> could be replaced with <div id="content-sidebar"><div>
- [20:28:16] <RobertBachmann>
and in your stylesheet replace ".white {...}" with "#content-sidebar div"
- [20:30:41] <RobertBachmann>
OTOH dglazkov is right: don't worry about it. I'm using constructs like <div id="presentational-document-wrapper"> on my homepage ;-)
- [20:46:06] <bewest>
that slider is _nifty_
- [20:47:20] * bewest drools on trovster's slider
- [20:47:34] <elsigh>
very slick indeed
- [20:50:14] <trovster>
RobertBachmann: Nope, won't work with more content, on the sites pages
- [20:50:24] <trovster>
RobertBachmann: I know about something-meaningful
- [20:50:41] <trovster>
THe slider is based on Yahoo!s code, btw
- [20:50:46] <bewest>
oh yahoo
- [20:50:52] <bewest>
I just saw that in the xsl
- [20:55:06] <RobertBachmann>
trovster: The hard part is to replace "something-meaningful" with something meaningful ;-)
- [20:55:55] <RobertBachmann>
any reason why you're using XSLT 2.0?
- [20:57:41] <trovster>
No... :S
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- [20:59:14] <RobertBachmann>
Up to now I thought Saxon was the only XSLT 2.0 capable XSLT engine.
- [20:59:42] <RobertBachmann>
but seems like Firefox can also handle it, or is Firefox just treating it as if it were XSLT 1.0?
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- [21:01:22] <dglazkov>
I think that variable is ignored by XSLT 1.0
- [21:01:30] <dglazkov>
"version"
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hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
- [21:23:08] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=5424 * MRaichelson * (+167) Examples in the wild -
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[[User:MRaichelson]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:MRaichelson * MRaichelson * (+28)
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[[User:MRaichelson]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:MRaichelson&diff=0&oldid=5425 * MRaichelson * (-4) <blink>ZOMGWHAT!</blink> -
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[[User:MRaichelson]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=User:MRaichelson&diff=0&oldid=5426 * MRaichelson * (-9)
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- [23:13:51] <mfbot>
[[chat-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=chat-examples&diff=0&oldid=5427 * Chris Messina * (+243)
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- [23:38:39] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [23:54:07] <jibot>
karlUshi is karlcow
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- [23:54:20] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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