IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-04-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:02:24] <mfbot> [[implementation-guidelines]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementation-guidelines&diff=0&oldid=6071 * Tantek * (+372) needs cleanup
  2. [00:03:45] <mfbot> [[implementations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=implementations&diff=0&oldid=6072 * Tantek * (+268)
  3. [00:13:27] <mfbot> [[rel-tag]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag&diff=0&oldid=6073 * Tantek * (+144) Implementations -
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  22. [03:03:20] <BenjaminCarlyle> I kind of like the idea of using something like <abbr class="uid" title="urn:isbn:0950788120">0 9507881-2-0</abbr> for a non-dereferenceable uri and <a class="uid" href="http://example.com/location"> for a dereferencable one.
  23. [03:04:48] <BenjaminCarlyle> You can then leverage all of the urn work as your machine-readable content... although it is still somewhat unclear as to whether it is useful to do so.
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  37. [04:22:00] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=6074 * Xiaoming Liu * (+155) UID Examples -
  38. [04:28:41] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=6075 * Xiaoming Liu * (+242) UID Examples -
  39. [04:30:44] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable169.198-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) Quit ()
  40. [04:33:44] <kerihenare> jibot has been strangely quiet today
  41. [04:35:28] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=6076 * Xiaoming Liu * (+274) UID Examples -
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  43. [04:41:35] <cks> has anyone worked on the uf zen garden stuff lately? wiki history says "interested parties" changes only since feb...
  44. [04:45:39] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=6077 * Xiaoming Liu * (+429) UID Examples -
  45. [04:56:35] <mfbot> [[uid-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-examples&diff=0&oldid=6078 * Xiaoming Liu * (+457) UID Examples -
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  58. [07:02:11] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  59. [07:02:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  60. [07:06:11] * kerihenare (n=kerihena@60-234-141-36.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) has joined #microformats
  61. [07:06:11] <jibot> kerihenare is http://www.kerihenare.com/ New Zealand loves Microformats
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  67. [08:04:36] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  68. [08:39:46] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("g'night")
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  70. [10:48:47] <kerihenare> there's almost no conversation on here is there. where do standardistas go to chat?
  71. [10:49:47] <trovster> Heh.
  72. [10:49:52] <trovster> #css on efnet ;)
  73. [10:50:07] <kerihenare> efnet?
  74. [10:50:27] <kerihenare> irc.efnet.net?
  75. [10:51:39] <trovster> Yeh.
  76. [10:54:27] * kerihenare (n=kerihena@60-234-141-36.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) Quit ()
  77. [10:56:15] <trovster> http://www.trovster.com/microformats.phps hows that look? Class for creating a dl/address vcard
  78. [10:56:34] * kerihenare (n=kerihena@60-234-141-36.bitstream.orcon.net.nz) has joined #microformats
  79. [10:58:02] <kerihenare> can't connect :p
  80. [10:58:24] <trovster> /server -m irc.efnet.org
  81. [10:59:40] <kerihenare> ah so efnet.org not efnet.net then
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  93. [13:41:52] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  94. [13:42:23] <kerihenare> man i thought that someone was acutally talking in here... just jibot
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  101. [14:46:12] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  119. [16:02:53] <DanC> whre's the problem statement for the citation microformat stuff? I solved a particular problem this past week or two: citing W3C specs from WWW conference papers http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/130
  120. [16:03:17] <DanC> I'm not sure how to fit my work into the wiki stuff like http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats
  121. [16:03:34] * bergie (n=bergie@200.195.149.130) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
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  123. [16:35:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  124. [16:35:42] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  127. [16:37:05] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  128. [16:44:42] * DanC waves to tantek's irc client, wondering if his brain is attached...
  129. [16:44:44] <DanC> whre's the problem statement for the citation microformat stuff? I solved a particular problem this past week or two: citing W3C specs from WWW conference papers http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/130
  130. [16:44:45] <DanC> I'm not sure how to fit my work into the wiki stuff like http://microformats.org/wiki/citation-formats
  131. [16:46:24] <tantek> greetings
  132. [16:46:54] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  133. [16:47:30] <tantek> DanC, sounds like you have published a real world example, rather than a new standard format
  134. [16:47:41] <tantek> consider adding your example to citation-examples
  135. [16:47:52] <DanC> ok. and the problem statement?
  136. [16:49:37] * DanC wanders off for a bit
  137. [16:50:24] <trovster> http://www.trovster.com/microformats.phps hows that look? Class for creating a dl/address vcard
  138. [16:50:52] * bear_afk is now known as bear
  139. [16:55:18] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  140. [16:55:43] <ibretonslvka> okay this is a weird idea... This programming language I'm building around microformats..
  141. [16:56:02] <ibretonslvka> I'm thinking I'll compile it straight into a series of http commands
  142. [16:56:30] <tantek> DanC, the problem statement for any microformat should be something like - given that people are publishing this type of information on the web, how do we provide simple markup for folks to add to their content in order to more semantically markup that content?
  143. [16:56:58] <tantek> With of course the goal of doing more interesting things with that semantically marked up content, such as aggregating it, searching it, importing it into other places, subscribing to it etc.
  144. [16:57:15] <tantek> Hence we focus on real world examples *first*.
  145. [17:00:52] <pnhChris> hmmm
  146. [17:01:25] <pnhChris> is there still type on adr in hcard?
  147. [17:01:47] <pnhChris> yeah.. nm.. i see it
  148. [17:04:11] <pnhChris> trovster: looks fine as a simple class... but doesn't seem particularly flexible... but that might be more in the data you plan on working with then anything else
  149. [17:04:34] <trovster> Yeh, I don't plan on working with a lot more.
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  154. [17:20:55] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  155. [17:22:35] <evanpro> From the land
  156. [17:22:38] <evanpro> Where creativity
  157. [17:22:41] <evanpro> is common to all!
  158. [17:27:08] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit ()
  159. [17:29:34] * raxor (n=chatzill@68-65-87-196.snbrca.adelphia.net) has joined #microformats
  160. [17:29:35] <jibot> raxor is in southern California, near LA
  161. [17:29:56] <raxor> jibot is in #microformats, new #swig
  162. [17:30:15] <raxor> gah s/new/near/
  163. [17:33:49] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  165. [17:41:56] <ibretonslvka> I dunno about the creative commons man
  166. [17:42:20] <ibretonslvka> I hear it has at least 4 letters in common with communism
  167. [17:44:00] * dbaron (n=dbaron@c-24-6-67-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit ("->office")
  168. [17:49:30] * trovster (n=tr-vs73r@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  169. [17:49:30] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  170. [18:00:56] * markp (n=markp@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) has joined #microformats
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  175. [19:03:09] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  176. [19:03:09] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  177. [19:03:34] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  178. [19:14:03] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  179. [19:16:48] * bergie (n=bergie@200.195.149.130) has joined #microformats
  180. [19:16:48] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  181. [19:17:39] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@bi01pt1.ct.us.ibm.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  184. [19:41:22] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
  185. [19:54:55] <tantek> greetings
  186. [19:55:03] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  187. [19:55:13] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  188. [19:56:39] <tantek> how about we take a look at the example posted on the list that needs hCalendaring: http://www.dgabcsolutions.com.br/preview/camarascs/cm_home.asp
  189. [19:57:05] <tantek> does anyone understand Brazilian Portuguese?
  190. [20:14:22] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
  191. [20:19:55] * ticki (n=ticki@200-55-109-252.dsl.prima.net.ar) has joined #microformats
  192. [20:22:02] <ticki> hi.
  193. [20:22:21] <ticki> can anybody give me a hand on hreview.
  194. [20:22:33] * LTjake (n=brian@h64-5-219-130.gtcust.grouptelecom.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  195. [20:22:39] <ticki> i have this code, and it want to set: item type = product
  196. [20:22:40] <ticki> http://pastebin.com/681681
  197. [20:23:07] <ticki> can anybody tell me how to do it, and also what is wrong in that code? I am messing a little bit with the TITLE of the item, and the URL
  198. [20:25:12] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  199. [20:25:35] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  200. [20:25:40] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  201. [20:25:45] <ticki> anybody can help me?
  202. [20:29:25] <RobertBachmann> hi ticki
  203. [20:29:35] <ticki> hi. how are you
  204. [20:29:40] <ticki> thanks for replying
  205. [20:31:42] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  206. [20:32:59] <RobertBachmann> type=product should work like this: <span class="type">product</span>
  207. [20:33:18] <RobertBachmann> have you looked at http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview#Product_review ?
  208. [20:36:42] <RobertBachmann> have a look on http://pastebin.com/681708
  209. [20:49:40] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  210. [20:50:47] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  211. [20:50:47] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  212. [20:55:49] <mfbot> [[elemental-microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=elemental-microformat&diff=0&oldid=6079 * RyanKing * (+2)
  213. [20:56:25] <mfbot> [[elemental-microformat]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=elemental-microformat&diff=0&oldid=6080 * RyanKing * (-1) fixing link
  214. [20:56:56] <mfbot> [[compound-microformat]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=compound-microformat&diff=0&oldid=6081 * RyanKing * (+1) fixing link
  215. [20:58:51] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #microformats
  216. [21:03:11] <ticki> hey RobertBachmann,. thanks for the info. sorry i was away
  217. [21:04:14] * bear_mtg is now known as bear_afk
  218. [21:04:21] * bergie (n=bergie@200.195.149.130) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  219. [21:05:08] <RobertBachmann> ticki, np
  220. [21:05:19] <ticki> so. if i have one photo
  221. [21:05:43] <ticki> and the photo has a link to a bigger version. does hreview contemplate the url for the photo?
  222. [21:11:38] <RobertBachmann> I don't know.
  223. [21:13:00] <ticki> any tool that i can test my hreviews?
  224. [21:13:36] <RobertBachmann> Tails
  225. [21:13:38] <ticki> i installed the microformats extension for firefox (i think it is called "tails")
  226. [21:13:43] <ticki> yes.. but it doesn't display pictures.
  227. [21:13:47] <RobertBachmann> ah
  228. [21:14:00] <ticki> thanks man for your help
  229. [21:14:44] <RobertBachmann> hreview allows multiple photos so could do <a href="url-to-bit-photo" class="photo"><img src="url-to-small-photo" class="photo"></a>
  230. [21:17:14] <ticki> oh. great. thanks
  231. [21:37:53] * bear_afk is now known as bear
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  233. [22:06:40] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2506P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
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  236. [22:16:18] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  237. [22:16:18] <Ries> My boss came just really happy in our office about Microformats.... cool I said... what does it do and how can we use it?
  238. [22:16:28] <Ries> That answer is still open......
  239. [22:17:12] <Ries> IMHO it's a system that can export a article, review etc that needs to be shown on a hoter website... simple.... is it a data exchange format aswell just like XML?
  240. [22:17:53] <Ries> When I go to : http://microformats.org/ they are axtreemly unclear what it really is, and the part what it really not is is non information....
  241. [22:19:08] <tantek> Ries, it is not a separate format like XML formats.
  242. [22:19:22] <tantek> microformats are used to add semantics to information you are already publishing on your web pages.
  243. [22:19:38] <Ries> tantek: for me it looks like HTML with 'some' structure.. ideal to apply some CSS and show it on my site....
  244. [22:19:50] <tantek> Ries, are you familiar with semantic XHTML authoring practices?
  245. [22:20:07] <Ries> some... not all... I am not a guru on the matter
  246. [22:20:11] <tantek> Microformats are essentially a logical extension of those, with added benefits of interoperability and data exchange.
  247. [22:20:33] <tantek> and yes, being able to also apply CSS to the semantic structures
  248. [22:20:59] <Ries> tantek: How strict are fields like date and money... I have seen hCalendar but it doesn't store any timezone information
  249. [22:21:07] <tantek> Did your boss say why he or she was really happy about Microformats?
  250. [22:21:31] <tantek> there is no data or money field in any microformat that i know of
  251. [22:21:48] <Ries> tantek: to import and export data from and to our database.... for example reviews, restaurant information, touroperator information etc... (we run a travel site)
  252. [22:21:54] <tantek> hCalendar events have dtstart and dtend which are specified with ISO8601 datetimes with optional time zone offsets
  253. [22:22:13] <tantek> that makes sense
  254. [22:22:27] <Ries> Hmmm optional, that is good :)
  255. [22:22:49] <tantek> it sounds like you have at least two types of information in your site
  256. [22:22:58] <tantek> organizations, like tour operators, restaurants etc.
  257. [22:23:03] <tantek> those are ideally published with hCard
  258. [22:23:07] <tantek> and reviews of those things
  259. [22:23:11] <tantek> which can be published with hReview
  260. [22:23:14] <tantek> does that help?
  261. [22:24:00] <Ries> and the restaurant itself? Like description of it, what sort of food, prices etc... can they go on a hCard aswel?
  262. [22:24:12] <ticki> where does the "H" come from in all the microformat names?
  263. [22:24:42] <tantek> Ries, the restaurant itself, for now the best we have is hCard to represent the name, location, contact info etc.
  264. [22:25:00] <tantek> more details like description, sort of food, prices etc. should go into the "note" property
  265. [22:25:12] <tantek> we don't have specific semantics for sort of food or price yet
  266. [22:25:37] <tantek> but the point is, that marking up at least *some* (or even *most*) of the information about the restaurant with microformats is better than none
  267. [22:25:44] <Ries> I understand all....
  268. [22:25:45] <tantek> and certainly you don't need 100% for it to be useful
  269. [22:26:15] <tantek> ticki, it started with hCard and hCalendar which were the (X)*H*TML versions of vCard and iCalendar
  270. [22:26:27] <tantek> after that, the pattern/convention has stuck
  271. [22:26:33] <tantek> though there is no requirement
  272. [22:26:38] <tantek> e.g. we also have xFolk
  273. [22:27:31] <Ries> under what situations would I use Mucroformats I mean how is it used?
  274. [22:27:54] <Ries> for any other website that want's to get information about a hotel on our page?
  275. [22:29:50] <mfbot> [[uid-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6082 * Tantek * (+189) added IANA urls
  276. [22:35:41] * izo (n=izo@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  277. [22:35:43] <tantek> Ries, you can use it to make it easier for your users to add info about the hotel on your page to their address book, so that when they are traveling (and might now have a network connection), they have the info with them.
  278. [22:36:40] <tantek> E.g. if you publish the hCard of a hotel on http://travel.example.com/hotels/nicehotel1 then you can also publish a link to download that hCard as a vCard and add it to their address book like this: http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/http://travel.example.com/hotels/nicehotel1
  279. [22:37:05] <tantek> so it is immediately useful for your users
  280. [22:37:46] <tantek> in addition, search engines that understand hCards will index that hotel as a contact, and may more likely show it to users searching for it
  281. [22:38:04] <tantek> thus directing traffic to your page with the information about the hotel
  282. [22:40:27] <Ries> well... if I tell my boss it's usefull for SEo then he will be extreemly happy :)
  283. [22:40:40] <ticki> thanks tantek
  284. [22:40:41] <Ries> so the usefullness of Microformats is a human usefullness
  285. [22:41:00] <Ries> not the let two websites exchange information about there property information...
  286. [22:41:16] <ticki> btw. thanks for all your efforts, i have listened you in at least two podcasts (the one in Australia and the microformat podcast)
  287. [22:43:16] <tantek> Ries, microformats are *also* useful for letting two websites exchange information
  288. [22:43:24] <tantek> that's part of the point
  289. [22:43:26] * Ries needs a podthing to....
  290. [22:43:47] <tantek> once you have done the work to make them useful to end users, you're actually done making them useful to search engines and other sites too
  291. [22:44:19] <tantek> ticki, thanks for your kind words. glad you enjoyed the podcasts.
  292. [22:44:47] <Ries> My problem is that I need to have data exacly... for example of it's possible to have a BBQ place in a restuarant I have a BBQ code (0132df) for example. Is that possible to with microformts?
  293. [22:45:13] <Ries> in my DB I can search for such a code easly, not for a text...
  294. [22:45:23] <ticki> tantek: you are welcome.
  295. [22:45:31] <Ries> also any other user can add info to my website, so I ask exact info...
  296. [22:45:53] <tantek> Ries, one of the things you can do with hCard is tag the restaurants
  297. [22:46:00] <Ries> I have seen such a thing with the hCalender, something with title="date"
  298. [22:46:03] <tantek> e.g. you can tag all the BBQ restaurants with the "bbq" tag
  299. [22:46:21] <tantek> you can allow users to add tags also
  300. [22:46:39] <ticki> tantek: ist here any other audio file that you or anybody else appear talking about microformats?
  301. [22:46:40] <Ries> that's nice....
  302. [22:46:50] <Ries> so I can store by BBQ code in there aswell as the BBQ text?
  303. [22:47:14] <Ries> something like <div class="tag" title="1243fg">As BBQ pit</div>
  304. [22:48:10] <tantek> more like <a rel="tag" class="category" href="http://technorati.com/tag/bbq">As BBQ pit</a> - using the rel-tag microformat: http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag
  305. [22:48:56] <Ries> tantek: I don't see my code in that line......
  306. [22:49:25] <Ries> this is correct? <a rel="1243fg" class="category" href="http://technorati.com/tag/bbq">As BBQ pit</a>
  307. [22:49:55] <tantek> Ries, no the rel must be rel="tag"
  308. [22:50:10] <Ries> but how would I transfer my code?
  309. [22:50:27] <tantek> does the code have any relevance outside your site?
  310. [22:50:35] * Ries is reading rel-tag
  311. [22:50:55] <Ries> tantek: It will have relevance when the microformat is going to get imported into a database
  312. [22:51:10] <Ries> searching for BBQ is differcult in different languages... the code is always there...
  313. [22:51:24] <tantek> then perhaps you want to tag it with the code as well
  314. [22:51:43] <Ries> can I?
  315. [22:51:49] <Ries> still reading the rel-tag......
  316. [22:51:57] <tantek> e.g. <a rel="tag" class="category" href="http://technorati.com/tag/1243fg">As BBQ pit</a>
  317. [22:52:39] <Ries> interesting.....
  318. [22:52:46] <KevinMarks> I would think bbq is more searchable than arbitrary strings
  319. [22:53:04] <Ries> this would make parsing the Microformat a bit more differcult, but at least I can have one format both for humans and computers...
  320. [22:53:05] <tantek> KevinMarks agreed
  321. [22:53:18] <tantek> Ries, you may want to tag it with both BBQ and your code
  322. [22:53:23] <tantek> using two tags
  323. [22:53:29] <Ries> KevinMarks: well.. we have all sorts of data... about 60 items for a hotel I think...
  324. [22:54:01] <Ries> I simply need to transfer the code... and we are planning to work Multi Language
  325. [22:54:18] <KevinMarks> hm
  326. [22:54:39] <KevinMarks> I'd use a tagspace on your site, not technorati if you have arbitrary strings
  327. [22:54:43] <Ries> so I need a human readable form and a computer readable form
  328. [22:54:52] <KevinMarks> then clicking on the link will take it to your page
  329. [22:54:57] <KevinMarks> explaining what it means
  330. [22:57:47] <Ries> well.. as long as the computer can read the code I am fine.....
  331. [22:59:46] <Ries> going home guys
  332. [22:59:52] <Ries> thank you so much for the information
  333. [22:59:58] <Ries> I'llread upon it
  334. [23:00:05] <Ries> and possible come back with questionsa
  335. [23:00:17] <Ries> tantek: I try to listen to the podthing....
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