IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-04-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  9. [01:36:19] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  15. [03:44:06] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  20. [04:48:20] <jibot> kerihenare is http://www.kerihenare.com/ New Zealand loves Microformats
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  38. [07:30:25] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  55. [12:36:53] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  60. [13:25:28] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  62. [13:47:37] <jibot> evanpro is Evan Prodromou, info at http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan
  63. [13:49:01] <evanpro> yay me!
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  65. [14:23:41] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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  68. [14:54:42] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  69. [14:56:45] <briansuda> DanC, are you around? I am having HG commit problems again!
  70. [14:57:07] <DanC> hi
  71. [14:57:09] <DanC> do tell
  72. [14:59:02] <briansuda> i made changes to the x2v repos over the weekend, then this morning i was going to commit, so i pulled first...
  73. [14:59:38] <briansuda> then i updated, it said i had outstanding commits, so i commited.... now i can't pull the most recent version...
  74. [14:59:54] <briansuda> it says 'no changes' but when i do hg update i don't get anything...
  75. [15:00:31] <DanC> I need lots more details in order to help. I need changeset hashes.
  76. [15:00:40] <briansuda> when i try to do a push, it says it would create another branch, so i have avoided that until i can merge in the changes that Ryan recently made.
  77. [15:01:01] <briansuda> ok...
  78. [15:01:21] <DanC> I'm at 36:403bd9c1aee5 . I'll see what I get when I pull...
  79. [15:01:34] <briansuda> hg parent changeset: 41:2f8763a2bbca
  80. [15:01:34] <briansuda> tag: tip
  81. [15:01:34] <briansuda> parent: 39:f8e53901f95b
  82. [15:02:38] <DanC> I get 2 new changesets, no new branches. tip seems to be Ryan's rakefile stuff, 77cef3da3046fa1ddca4310bfde37c52b93aadde
  83. [15:03:30] <DanC> what does `hg outgoing` show?
  84. [15:03:57] <briansuda> abort: repository default-push not found!
  85. [15:04:30] <DanC> then `hg outgoing ssh://mercurial@hg.microformats.org/repos/x2v`
  86. [15:04:43] <DanC> or add this to .hg/hgrc: default-push = ssh://mercurial@hg.microformats.org/repos/x2v
  87. [15:04:46] <DanC> under [paths]
  88. [15:05:39] <briansuda> changeset: 38:bef72b721083
  89. [15:05:39] <briansuda> user: unknown@t-lva-suda-co-uk.local
  90. [15:05:39] <briansuda> date: Sat Apr 22 20:04:00 2006 -0500
  91. [15:05:39] <briansuda> summary: removed older code that has been commented out and fixed a small bug with the -org when used with the include-pattern
  92. [15:05:42] <briansuda> changeset: 39:f8e53901f95b
  93. [15:05:43] <DanC> I get 'unkown rev' for :2f8763a2bbca and f8e53901f95b ; looks like you haven't pushed them yet (which is not surprising...)
  94. [15:05:45] <briansuda> user: unknown@t-lva-suda-co-uk.local
  95. [15:05:47] <briansuda> date: Sat Apr 22 20:54:32 2006 -0500
  96. [15:05:50] <briansuda> summary: tweaked some template code to allow for ABBR in sub-properties, so now X2V passes all the current tests, i also fixed the @header rule to look for descendant-or-self of a vcard
  97. [15:05:54] <briansuda> changeset: 41:2f8763a2bbca
  98. [15:05:56] <briansuda> tag: tip
  99. [15:05:59] <briansuda> parent: 39:f8e53901f95b
  100. [15:06:01] <briansuda> user: unknown@t-lva-suda-co-uk.local
  101. [15:06:04] <briansuda> date: Mon Apr 24 09:49:29 2006 -0500
  102. [15:06:06] <briansuda> summary: made changes to the XSLT to pass all the tests and merged with repos
  103. [15:06:14] <briansuda> i haven't pushed because i can't seem to merge with the last REV
  104. [15:06:34] <DanC> did you try to merge? i.e. `hg update -m` ?
  105. [15:07:20] <DanC> I think what I need to see is `hg parents`
  106. [15:07:30] <DanC> hmm... maybe that won't help.
  107. [15:07:48] <DanC> I'm trying to find the changeset where you forked
  108. [15:08:06] <briansuda> the hg update -m doesn't seem to do anything.
  109. [15:08:10] <DanC> I think I need the parent of bef72b721083
  110. [15:08:24] <DanC> try hg log -r -v bef72b721083
  111. [15:09:06] <briansuda> RESULT: changeset: 38:bef72b721083
  112. [15:09:18] <DanC> (do you have the hgk extension installed yet? can you do `hg view`?)
  113. [15:09:58] <DanC> that's the whole RESULT ?
  114. [15:10:38] <briansuda> hg log -v -r bef72b721083
  115. [15:10:39] <briansuda> *** failed to import extension /usr/local/lib/hgk.py
  116. [15:10:39] <briansuda> [Errno 2] No such file or directory
  117. [15:10:39] <briansuda> changeset: 38:bef72b7210834a945116ed3929ba1adacf88b090
  118. [15:10:39] <briansuda> user: unknown@t-lva-suda-co-uk.local
  119. [15:10:41] <briansuda> date: Sat Apr 22 20:04:00 2006 -0500
  120. [15:10:44] <briansuda> files: xhtml2vcard.xsl
  121. [15:10:46] <briansuda> description:
  122. [15:10:49] <briansuda> removed older code that has been commented out and fixed a small bug with the -org when used with the include-pattern
  123. [15:11:15] <DanC> grumble. still no parent of 38. what about `hg log -r 37` ?
  124. [15:12:18] <briansuda> hg log -r 37
  125. [15:12:18] <briansuda> changeset: 37:a06664be5d35
  126. [15:12:18] <briansuda> user: unknown@t-lva-suda-co-uk.local
  127. [15:12:18] <briansuda> date: Fri Apr 21 11:18:37 2006 -0500
  128. [15:12:21] <briansuda> summary: added the templates for extracting data from @header ids in a table
  129. [15:13:48] <DanC> aha. so you haven't merged Ryan's change of 21 Apr 18:27:03.
  130. [15:14:09] <DanC> does `hg heads` give 2 results?
  131. [15:14:42] <briansuda> actually 3
  132. [15:14:54] <briansuda> 2 for Ryan, and 1 for me
  133. [15:15:03] <DanC> 3rd one is from way back, on 29 Apr?
  134. [15:15:10] <DanC> er.. 29 Mar
  135. [15:15:16] <briansuda> yup
  136. [15:15:25] <DanC> ok. disregard that one. it's junk.
  137. [15:16:15] <DanC> i'm not sure why `hg update -m` didn't do it, but try: `hg update -m 77cef3da3046`
  138. [15:17:18] <briansuda> it doesn't produce any message when i do that.
  139. [15:18:24] <DanC> umm... what does `hg status` show now?
  140. [15:19:00] <briansuda> M Rakefile (that's ryan's awaiting file)
  141. [15:19:21] <DanC> ah. good. now commit the merge: hg commit -m 'merge with Ryan'
  142. [15:19:43] <DanC> (perhaps hg update was working earlier, and we didn't realize. hg is sometimes too quiet)
  143. [15:20:38] <DanC> now you should be able to push without creating new branches. There is a bug involving suprious warnings, so you might have to use `hg push -f`
  144. [15:21:14] <briansuda> ok, that seems to work. i committed and pushed
  145. [15:22:08] <briansuda> FYI: I added two more tests and fixed X2V to pass all the tests
  146. [15:22:20] <DanC> yup. tip is now 12f6926962c26fc1b94f97dd638eba0580274a95 . looks good.
  147. [15:22:29] <DanC> Please use a nicer username, ok?
  148. [15:22:39] <DanC> [ui]
  149. [15:22:40] <DanC> username=Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
  150. [15:22:44] <DanC> add that to ~/.hgrc
  151. [15:23:10] <DanC> the hg norm is to use email addresses, but I prefer web pages. (and Ryan was happy to follow suit)
  152. [15:27:00] <briansuda> ok, i've changed that, next commit we'll see what happens!
  153. [15:30:44] <DanC> btw... did you know about Ryan's rakefile when you were doing your x2v hacking?
  154. [15:30:56] <DanC> if you had updated before your 1st commit, we could have avoided the merge dance
  155. [15:32:17] <briansuda> i did know about Ryan's Rakefile and so i did a PULL first (but i hadn't committed my own stuff). my thought was to get his file and committ it all together - but now i know not to do that!
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  157. [15:34:17] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  171. [16:57:03] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  175. [17:50:40] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  176. [18:16:17] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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  178. [18:46:40] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  179. [18:47:05] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  180. [18:47:48] <mfbot> [[rest/rails]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/rails&diff=0&oldid=6063 * DrErnie * (+82) Simply RESTful - PUT vs. POST
  181. [19:14:56] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
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  188. [19:27:13] <jibot> bkdelong is B.K. DeLong, Head Research Analyst for HALO Worldwide - http://www.haloworldwide.com. Web: http://www.brain-stream.com. Email: bkdelong@pobox.com and lives in Salem, MA, USA (-5:00 GMT)
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  193. [19:31:47] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
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  195. [19:37:43] <RobertBachmann> xformats.org?
  196. [19:39:35] <KevinMarks> this is an ex-forsamt, it has shuffled off this mortal coil?
  197. [19:43:58] <RobertBachmann> -> http://jasonkolb.typepad.com/weblog/2006/04/live_clipboard_.html Last paragraph
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  202. [19:56:10] <mfbot> [[hatom-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-faq&diff=0&oldid=6064 * RobertBachmann * (+317) Q&A: Is hAtom intended to replace RSS or Atom? (needs refinement)
  203. [20:03:27] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=6065 * RobertBachmann * (+266) Feed <i>permalink</i> (atom:<i>permalink</i>) -
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  208. [20:19:38] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=6066 * RobertBachmann * (+426) Feed <i>author</i> and Entry author (atom:<i>author</i>) -
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  220. [21:09:51] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=6067 * Jqian * (+97) New Examples -
  221. [21:15:12] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=6068 * Jqian * (-409) Examples with some problems -
  222. [21:16:53] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=6069 * Jqian * (+220) New Examples -
  223. [21:21:42] <pnhChris> RobertBachmann: (or anyone else involved): whats your thought on changes to hatom2atom.. you have anything lined up soon?
  224. [21:22:59] <pnhChris> .. was going to push out an update of my applescript for netnewswire (with source-uri set among other things) and was curious
  225. [21:24:39] <RobertBachmann> pnhChris: I'm currently working on date padding.
  226. [21:25:12] <RobertBachmann> what revision of hAtom2Atom do you use?
  227. [21:26:04] <tantek> hi Robert. your answers to the hatom-faq question seem reasonable to me.
  228. [21:27:08] <pnhChris> hmm.. i'd have to see what i shipped the last version with... was playing with r38 last night.. see theres something new since then too
  229. [21:28:49] <RobertBachmann> hi Tantek. You said you could help with the hatom-parsing page.
  230. [21:28:51] <pnhChris> i've swapped versions on my local machine a few times to try things out
  231. [21:29:28] <tantek> hi Robert, yes
  232. [21:30:12] <tantek> the one thing I'd really like to get rid of is the whole "nearest-in-parent" abstraction/phrasing. it is terribly unintuitive for non-technical folks, and a bit intimidating to boot.
  233. [21:30:27] <tantek> the specific algorithm could be tweaked too. i prefer what we have come up with in hReview
  234. [21:30:33] <tantek> for determining the reviewer
  235. [21:32:18] <RobertBachmann> s/nearest-in-parent/next best/ ;-)
  236. [21:34:21] <tantek> right
  237. [21:34:36] <tantek> I actually like the way it appears less specific the further from the "proper" markup that it is
  238. [21:34:43] <tantek> we want to encourage folks to mark things up properly
  239. [21:34:56] <tantek> not to make it easy to parse things that are marked up less than properly
  240. [21:35:08] <tantek> hence my objection to "nearest-in-parent"
  241. [21:49:10] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2419P000.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit (Nick collision from services.)
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  243. [21:53:07] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
  244. [21:56:25] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) Quit ()
  245. [21:56:42] <RobertBachmann> From: http://microformats.org/wiki/hreview#Field_details reviewer: »If no "reviewer" is found inside the hReview, parsers should look outside the hReview, in the context of the page, for the "reviewer".«
  246. [21:56:42] <RobertBachmann> So in which order would a parser look for the reviewer?
  247. [21:57:02] <tantek> deliberately undefined
  248. [21:57:27] <tantek> see my point above
  249. [21:57:39] <tantek> we want to encourage folks to mark things up properly, not to make it easy to parse things that are marked up less than properly
  250. [21:59:03] <RobertBachmann> but won't that hurt interoperability?
  251. [21:59:34] <pnhChris> meh... who defines what's proper in this particular case?
  252. [22:00:36] <pnhChris> ... or why deviating form X is wrong
  253. [22:00:39] <pnhChris> or imporoper
  254. [22:02:03] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@140.247.249.249) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  255. [22:02:21] * pnhChris just doesn't like some of atoms choices here....
  256. [22:02:46] <pnhChris> i realize that you're trying for the best mapping you can get tho
  257. [22:05:18] <tantek> Robert, it will only hurt interoperability of poor markup
  258. [22:05:30] <tantek> we want to discourage poor markup in general
  259. [22:09:53] <RobertBachmann> my suggestion: If there's no feed/entry author at the feed/entry level "use the author defined by the containing document language ..."
  260. [22:13:30] <RobertBachmann> so if a feed has no author but the page contains
  261. [22:13:31] <RobertBachmann> <address>
  262. [22:13:31] <RobertBachmann> <span class="vcard">
  263. [22:13:31] <RobertBachmann> <span class="fn">John Doe</span>
  264. [22:13:31] <RobertBachmann> </span>
  265. [22:13:31] <RobertBachmann> <span class="vcard">
  266. [22:13:33] <RobertBachmann> <span class="fn">Jane Doe</span>
  267. [22:13:35] <RobertBachmann> </span>
  268. [22:13:35] <pnhChris> I guess I just see a lot of potentially useful but invalid hatom documents out there.. particularly in the case of author definition, but also date in some instances.. from my netflix queue, to fark to my.yahoo. drudge.. on and on and on...
  269. [22:13:37] <RobertBachmann> </address>
  270. [22:13:39] <RobertBachmann> or
  271. [22:13:41] <RobertBachmann> <address class="vcard">
  272. [22:13:43] <RobertBachmann> <span class="fn">John Doe</span>
  273. [22:13:45] <RobertBachmann> </address>
  274. [22:13:47] <RobertBachmann> <address class="vcard">
  275. [22:13:49] <RobertBachmann> <span class="fn">Jane Doe</span>
  276. [22:13:51] <RobertBachmann> </address>
  277. [22:13:53] <RobertBachmann> the feed authors are John Doe and Jane Doe
  278. [22:14:35] <RobertBachmann> ah regarding dates... which date formats should be allowed?
  279. [22:20:19] * schepers (n=schepers@66-194-222-226.gen.twtelecom.net) Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  280. [22:20:36] <RobertBachmann> g2g. bye
  281. [22:20:38] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2422P019.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
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  284. [22:28:42] <pnhChris> that all stated.. i probably have less of an aversion then some to using display:none for the browser view on otherwise well marked up information... I just don't know if you can expect some of those things to exist in a web page as much as atom wants them to
  285. [22:28:59] <pnhChris> ... in a feed
  286. [22:31:22] * pnhChris shrugs and runs off looking for food
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  293. [23:53:23] <mfbot> [[hresume]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hresume&diff=0&oldid=6070 * Ralph Brandi * (+222) Examples in the wild -
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