IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-05-01

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:09:20] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-71-140-38-174.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  2. [00:09:20] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  3. [00:09:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  5. [00:16:54] <factoryjoe> yo tantek
  6. [00:17:04] <factoryjoe> do you have access to the scrollback?
  7. [00:17:22] <tantek> you mean archives?
  8. [00:17:34] * tantek looks in the general direction of the /topic
  9. [00:17:55] <factoryjoe> check the channel logs
  10. [00:18:03] <factoryjoe> the convo between me and brian
  11. [00:19:51] <tantek> fyi, I spoke with the meetup.com folks at the "When 2.0" conference this past December. hCalendar was a big hit at the When 2.0 conference.
  12. [00:20:01] <tantek> glad to see that meetup.com now supports hCalendar.
  13. [00:21:02] <tantek> oh i see you want to put one hCard per file
  14. [00:21:04] <tantek> interesting
  15. [00:21:34] <factoryjoe> yeah
  16. [00:21:38] <factoryjoe> that applescript
  17. [00:21:44] <factoryjoe> basically outputs one file per person
  18. [00:21:54] <factoryjoe> but they're incremented right now
  19. [00:22:00] <factoryjoe> 1.html, 2.html, 3.html etc
  20. [00:22:10] <factoryjoe> which is no good for syncing or for anything really
  21. [00:22:16] <tantek> I would probably just name the files with the fn except s/ /-, and append (2), (3) etc. for collisions with .html as the extension
  22. [00:22:25] <tantek> incremented does definitely suck
  23. [00:22:27] <factoryjoe> ok
  24. [00:22:32] <tantek> plus the filesystem is part of the UI
  25. [00:22:37] <tantek> expect the user to see the file names
  26. [00:22:43] <tantek> therefore the filenames should have meaning to the user
  27. [00:22:44] <factoryjoe> right
  28. [00:22:47] <factoryjoe> i know
  29. [00:22:56] <factoryjoe> see in some cases i want to use remote hcards
  30. [00:23:00] <factoryjoe> like you said hcard.html
  31. [00:23:13] <factoryjoe> or, have local information combined with remote info
  32. [00:23:14] <tantek> yep, or hcards.html for aset
  33. [00:23:16] <factoryjoe> a merge
  34. [00:23:27] <factoryjoe> where remote takes precendence
  35. [00:23:36] <tantek> merging is non-trivial
  36. [00:23:51] <tantek> md5 for filenames is ugly
  37. [00:23:52] <tantek> don't do that
  38. [00:24:53] <factoryjoe> yeah
  39. [00:24:59] <factoryjoe> i think name-(1) is ok
  40. [00:25:12] <factoryjoe> tantek-├želik.html
  41. [00:25:21] <factoryjoe> chris-messina-1.html
  42. [00:25:22] <factoryjoe> etc
  43. [00:25:59] <factoryjoe> it needs some refinements but the script almost works
  44. [00:26:04] <factoryjoe> outputting all hcards
  45. [00:26:11] <tantek> yep
  46. [00:26:15] <factoryjoe> i mean, i'm sure that ernie could do it in 5 minutes
  47. [00:26:18] <factoryjoe> ;)
  48. [00:31:17] * Kura (n=Kura@adsl.kurafire.net) Quit ()
  49. [00:42:34] * LTjake (n=brian@CPE0011506c8049-CM0013711405ec.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox 1.5.0.2/2006030804]")
  50. [01:19:59] <BenjaminCarlyle> tantek: I've put up a proposal under uid-brainstorming for using rel-bookmark as a permalink/uid. I'm not sure it is a 100% solution for the problem domain, eg vcard->hcard translations may not use a url for a uid... but it is already used this way in hAtom. I think there needs to be some sort of reconcilliation between the formats before a uid microformat can fly. Any thoughts?
  51. [01:21:13] <tantek> i think rel-bookmark can function as a uid yes
  52. [01:21:29] <tantek> but, it may be too restrictive to require that a uid *is* a rel-bookmark
  53. [01:21:35] * dotBen (n=foo@dotben.plus.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  54. [01:21:47] <tantek> case in point, the heated debate requesting consideration of URIs as UIDs
  55. [01:22:18] <tantek> I think it is ok to have rel-bookmark *and* UID
  56. [01:22:28] <tantek> they each bring specific semantics
  57. [01:23:11] <tantek> what UID brings above and beyond rel-bookmark, is the ability to express URNs and non-URI UIDs
  58. [01:23:21] <tantek> which appear to be necessary, given the input on the list
  59. [01:25:21] <BenjaminCarlyle> I think a non-url uid is certainly required for citations. It may also be required for identification of the unique id of a piece of microformatted content. I think there may be some wriggle room there, but examples and evidence from the web may provide the only sure answer.
  60. [01:25:21] <BenjaminCarlyle> What do you think about rel-bookmark generally? Is it equivalent to url+uid?
  61. [01:26:34] <BenjaminCarlyle> I think it matches the url semantics of a more dynamic version of the content, but also the uid semantics of a stable identifier.
  62. [01:28:16] <BenjaminCarlyle> I'm mostly thinking about this from the hAtom perspective, where rel-bookmark is used for permalink. I wonder whether url+uid should replace the rel-bookmark use in hAtom, should be considered equivalent, or should remain as not permitted in hAtom.
  63. [01:40:23] <mfbot> [[hatom-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hatom-issues&diff=0&oldid=6149 * BenjaminCarlyle * (+1246) Add uid+url vs rel-bookmark conflict
  64. [01:42:40] <BenjaminCarlyle> Allowing rel-bookmark to imply both "url" and "uid" across all formats may resolve any conflict. Alternatively, we may consider hAtom's use of rel-bookmark to be flawed.
  65. [01:42:58] <BenjaminCarlyle> Anyway, I have written up the issues. I'm off for the day. Cya :)
  66. [01:43:06] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-79-46.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has left #microformats
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  70. [02:53:05] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  78. [04:07:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  82. [04:56:21] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  91. [10:01:13] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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  102. [11:25:20] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  108. [13:10:54] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  110. [13:15:06] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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  114. [14:37:52] <jibot> davecardwell is Dave Cardwell of http://davecardwell.co.uk/. He designs webs and generally geeks about in York, England.
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  119. [16:11:12] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  126. [16:39:53] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  138. [18:29:28] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  139. [18:29:53] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  140. [18:39:07] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=6150 * RobertBachmann * (-89) Robert Bachmann - hAtom2Atom TODO
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  142. [18:39:16] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
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  145. [18:52:35] <pnhChris> yay.. the hatom proxy is spitting out valid atom with that last xslt update
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  151. [19:23:09] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  157. [19:58:20] * DanC is curious to see how the process works out for include-pattern
  158. [19:59:14] <DanC> it seems like Brian and Ryan haven't come to consensus. I'm a pretty big fan of the "if it jams, force it; if it breaks, it needed replacing anyway" approach, but I think i'll watch what happens for a bit more
  159. [19:59:30] <DanC> I sort of expected tantek to edit the wiki to match his preference
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  162. [20:12:12] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  166. [20:24:59] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  175. [21:34:31] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  181. [21:49:47] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  187. [22:19:24] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6151 * RCanine * (+406) Schema -
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  196. [23:31:29] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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  198. [23:49:57] <mfbot> [[stock-symbol-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=stock-symbol-examples&diff=0&oldid=6152 * SujataRamchandran * (+476)

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