IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:01:50] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6186 * Brush * (-35) Participants -
  2. [00:09:06] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6187 * Brush * (+195) add first example -
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  4. [00:09:52] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6188 * Brush * (+7) [http://www.php.net/~derick/meeting-notes.html PHP Developers Meeting] -
  5. [00:23:23] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6189 * Brush * (+374) 2nd example -
  6. [00:23:49] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6190 * Brush * (+1) [http://www.icann.org/minutes/minutes-10apr06.htm ICANN Executive Committe] -
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  9. [00:33:41] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6191 * Brush * (+79) [http://www.icann.org/minutes/minutes-10apr06.htm ICANN Executive Committee] -
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  14. [00:51:12] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6192 * Brush * (+851) 3rd example -
  15. [00:51:33] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6193 * Brush * (-4) [http://www.stevenshealthcare.org/board_minutes_12.21.05.php Stevens Hospital Board] -
  16. [00:52:34] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6194 * Brush * (+3) [http://www.stevenshealthcare.org/board_minutes_12.21.05.php Stevens Hospital Board] -
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  18. [00:59:03] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  19. [01:00:30] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6195 * Brush * (+68) [http://www.stevenshealthcare.org/board_minutes_12.21.05.php Stevens Hospital Board] -
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  22. [01:10:27] <jibot> yakk is a big fat liar and a hater
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  29. [01:31:42] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6196 * Brush * (+955) Example 4 -
  30. [01:32:08] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6197 * Brush * (+4) = -
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  32. [01:40:30] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6198 * Brush * (+259) [http://www.php.net/~derick/meeting-notes.html PHP Developers Meeting] -
  33. [01:40:56] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6199 * Brush * (+4) = -
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  35. [01:43:41] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  36. [01:50:37] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6200 * Brush * (+370) Real-World Examples -- move around, add summary to PHP mtg -
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  38. [01:51:27] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  39. [01:51:54] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  40. [01:53:13] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6201 * Brush * (+177) Existing Practices -
  41. [01:55:34] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6202 * Brush * (+48) Real-World Examples -
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  49. [02:29:46] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  50. [02:30:14] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  56. [02:59:18] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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  60. [03:22:38] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  90. [10:07:31] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
  91. [10:09:48] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  92. [11:02:50] <mfbot> [[s5-tools]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=s5-tools&diff=0&oldid=6203 * Powtac * (+108) S5 Tools -
  93. [11:10:20] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  94. [11:10:20] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  95. [11:10:38] <trovster> Should vevent use title="yyyy-mm-dd" or 19970903T190000Z style?
  96. [11:18:48] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  97. [11:24:22] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=6204 * 'arris * (+92) New Examples -
  98. [11:42:04] <KevinMarks> http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/006729.html
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  103. [13:16:48] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  106. [14:01:00] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  107. [14:01:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  108. [14:04:47] <trovster> tantek: Hey, could you check a vevent I've set up?
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  114. [14:35:13] <tantek> trovster, when you want something checked, just paste the URL here, and I'm sure someone will have a look at it ;)
  115. [14:35:31] <trovster> Well, see, this channel is logged. And this is a privte URL atm
  116. [14:43:59] * evan__ is now known as evanpro
  117. [14:50:29] <tantek> in that case, there are several folks here you can ping about it, even if I am not around or busy
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  121. [15:26:13] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards
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  131. [16:37:03] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  132. [16:37:31] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  134. [17:10:24] <trovster> Hey tantek, did you get the ctcp message?
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  139. [17:36:34] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  144. [17:46:09] <tantek> trovster, you have to be identified to freenode in order to send private messages
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  146. [17:47:27] <trovster> OK, let me try now
  147. [17:50:41] <evanpro> So, there doesn't seem to be any info about RDF/A on the mf.o wiki
  148. [17:51:50] <tantek> evanpro, microformats takes a different approach from RDF/A
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  150. [17:52:05] <tantek> we're very allergic to namespaces for starters (as typical web authors are)
  151. [17:52:10] <evanpro> tantek: that would be some useful information
  152. [17:52:13] <tantek> and microformats are simpler than RDF/A
  153. [17:52:15] <evanpro> B-)
  154. [17:52:27] <tantek> what would be some useful information?
  155. [17:52:33] <tantek> did you find the faq for rdf folks?
  156. [17:52:50] <evanpro> no, I'll check now
  157. [17:54:37] <evanpro> tantek: that microformats.org folks are aware of RDF/a, and what the differences are
  158. [17:55:34] <tantek> evanpro, some microformats.org folks are aware of RDF/A, and have long since dismissed it as being impractical for typical web authors.
  159. [17:56:33] * dbaron (n=dbaron@gw.office.mozilla.org) has joined #microformats
  160. [17:57:06] <evanpro> yes, I understand
  161. [17:59:15] <evanpro> my take is that it's a newer project than mf.o and seems to be a response to the method
  162. [17:59:32] <tantek> nope
  163. [17:59:36] <evanpro> and also that it generalizes and re-uses the work that's been done in RDF for the last few years
  164. [17:59:37] <tantek> RDF/A has been around much longer
  165. [17:59:41] <evanpro> oh
  166. [17:59:46] <tantek> like RDF
  167. [18:00:26] <evanpro> well
  168. [18:00:44] <evanpro> I'm looking at a primer from March 2006, saying it's a first working draft
  169. [18:01:47] <evanpro> but digging a little farther I find some RDF-in-HTML stuff from 2004
  170. [18:02:26] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
  171. [18:03:59] <mfbot> [[hcard-faq]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-faq&diff=0&oldid=6205 * Tantek * (+299) more clarification on proper (and improper) uses of <address>
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  173. [18:05:17] <tantek> evanpro, you might say that there is a fundamental philosophical problem, which is why even ask/force authors to bother with RDF in HTML when simpler/easier solutions suffice for 80% of cases?
  174. [18:06:17] <evanpro> Perhaps you're misunderstanding me
  175. [18:06:19] <tantek> read this: http://open.itworld.com/4934/nls_ebiz_mastfoo060502/page_1.html
  176. [18:06:56] <evanpro> The existence of another semantic-data-in-XHTML effort generates a question as to what the relationship is between the two
  177. [18:07:02] <evanpro> It may be worth answering that question
  178. [18:07:32] <evanpro> Although the FAQ-for-RDF-folks is useful in that regard
  179. [18:07:33] <tantek> why is it worth the time to do so?
  180. [18:07:46] <tantek> why not simply pick the easier method for publishers and be done with it?
  181. [18:07:54] <evanpro> well
  182. [18:08:01] <evanpro> you've taken the time to answer my question here
  183. [18:08:09] <tantek> (and BTW, I am playing a bit of devil's advocate here)
  184. [18:08:32] <tantek> I want to encourage you to add to the FAQ for RDF folks, if you find the answers/clarification/relationship info useful.
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  188. [19:14:15] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) has joined #microformats
  189. [19:14:16] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
  190. [19:35:40] <trovster> What?! I can't have the classname 'address' inside a hCard?
  191. [19:50:25] <Atamido> You can't?
  192. [19:51:10] * hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) Quit ("nil")
  193. [19:52:16] <trovster> address property should be represented as street-address -- from Suda convertor
  194. [19:53:43] <trovster> If I wanted street-address, I would have put street-address. I didn't, so I didn't.
  195. [19:54:46] * remi (n=remi@dsl-144-46.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
  196. [19:54:49] <Atamido> Perhaps that is just a warning?
  197. [19:57:42] <tantek> yes it is a warning due to being a common mistake
  198. [19:59:10] <trovster> Warning or error, looks like an error to me, as it doesn't give me the file
  199. [20:00:45] <trovster> Which pretty much sucks
  200. [20:09:06] * izo (n=izo@lib59-5-82-243-109-1.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  201. [20:09:20] * izo (n=izo@lib59-5-82-243-109-1.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (Client Quit)
  202. [20:11:27] * bear is now known as bear_lunch
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  204. [20:21:48] * schepers (n=schepers@64.236.153.220) Quit ("Free at last!")
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  206. [20:25:08] * jakedahn (n=jakedahn@63-231-153-22.mpls.qwest.net) has joined #microformats
  207. [20:42:07] <tantek> trovster, ping briansuda next time you see him and ask him to make it a warning
  208. [20:43:42] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  209. [20:46:11] * bear_lunch is now known as bear
  210. [21:21:44] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2440P028.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  211. [21:21:44] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
  212. [21:22:19] * trovster (n=trovster@blakesheen.demon.co.uk) Quit ()
  213. [21:23:05] <RobertBachmann> hi. any improvment regarding international shipping of mf t-shirts?
  214. [21:27:38] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  215. [21:32:48] * remi (n=remi@dsl-144-46.aei.ca) Quit ()
  216. [21:34:05] <RobertBachmann> okay, no improvment - singed up @ goodstorm.com: "Note: GoodStorm.com does not currently ship outside the U.S."
  217. [21:36:22] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
  218. [21:36:22] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
  219. [21:39:21] * tantek (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  220. [21:40:09] <RobertBachmann> tantek_, have you already seen <http://hg.rbach.priv.at/CHECKOUT/generators/hcard/creator.html>?
  221. [21:41:53] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable169.198-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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  223. [21:44:10] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
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  226. [22:04:53] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2440P028.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("sleep")
  227. [22:11:54] * dustym_ (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) has joined #microformats
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  229. [22:12:13] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  230. [22:12:31] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
  231. [22:18:54] * DanC (n=connolly@pdpc/supporter/active/DanC) Quit ("sysadmin stuff. wish me luck")
  232. [22:26:09] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  233. [22:26:11] <tantek_> Robert, nice!
  234. [22:26:16] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  235. [22:26:16] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  236. [22:26:28] * tantek sets mode +o KevinMarks
  237. [22:27:09] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  238. [22:27:10] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  239. [22:28:34] <tantek> brian, trovster was upset that class="address" was an error instead of a warning instead an hCard
  240. [22:29:05] <briansuda> for the pre-flight checker?
  241. [22:29:26] <briansuda> that probably needs an overhaul - i think everything was an error, no warnings.
  242. [22:29:33] <tantek> ah ok
  243. [22:29:42] <tantek> maybe we can document suggested warnings and errors?
  244. [22:29:44] <briansuda> there was no real way to say "this is a warning" AND generate a vCard
  245. [22:30:03] <tantek> yes, but you can have two classes of errors
  246. [22:30:10] <tantek> warnings
  247. [22:30:11] <tantek> errors
  248. [22:30:14] <briansuda> PHP can only send one thing to the HTTP Stream, either text/html or text/x-vcard
  249. [22:30:24] <tantek> and by default stop processing on either and issue an error report
  250. [22:30:31] <tantek> but have a query param for ignoring warnings
  251. [22:31:05] <tantek> ?w=0 or something
  252. [22:31:19] <tantek> ?ignorewarnings=1
  253. [22:31:22] <tantek> etc.
  254. [22:31:23] <briansuda> yeah, it is certainly something to look into, there are alot of links back to X2V, maybe it is warnings off by default... otherwise alot of stuff might break
  255. [22:31:40] <tantek> no i think warnings are ON by default
  256. [22:31:48] <tantek> which is *good* because it encourages people to fix them
  257. [22:31:53] <tantek> and thus the content out there gets cleaner
  258. [22:31:55] <briansuda> does anyone know about markp's validator progress
  259. [22:33:37] <briansuda> When people link to X2V they are NOT expecting a warning screen... i agree that we should encourage people to clean-up content, but what's that old saying "be liberal in what you accept..."
  260. [22:34:31] <tantek> that's Postel's law, and has caused so many problems in the content world you have no idea
  261. [22:34:41] <tantek> not an old saying
  262. [22:35:09] <tantek> trust me, if we keep the converters more strict up front, then longer term A LOT more stuff will interoperate
  263. [22:35:28] <tantek> we will have set a higher bar to begin with in terms of quality, without requiring very much work from publishers
  264. [22:37:59] <briansuda> i agree that we should try to get as much fixed. I'll look into the pre-flight checker - there currently is NOT one for hCalendar.... so maybe i'll look into that too
  265. [22:38:05] <yakk> do we have good validators for the common microformats?
  266. [22:38:33] <briansuda> yakk, what do you mean by "common", you mean popular, or elemental or compound?
  267. [22:38:58] <yakk> briansuda, by "common" I mean "xfn, hcard and vcard" I guess
  268. [22:39:11] <briansuda> Next week, is my Microfomats week - i have lots to prep before the conferences, so the pre-flight will get some attention very soon
  269. [22:39:25] <yakk> briansuda, you'll be at xtech, right?
  270. [22:39:34] <briansuda> There really isn't a validator at the moment. X2V does some checking, but it needs updating
  271. [22:39:52] <briansuda> yakk, yes, XTECH and www2006 and Refresh Edinburgh
  272. [22:40:07] <briansuda> you can check the MF wiki for all the events scheduled
  273. [22:40:08] <yakk> briansuda, having a validator and separate converter would seem valuable
  274. [22:40:16] <yakk> briansuda, cool - I'll be at XTECH
  275. [22:40:53] <briansuda> grab me when and we can chat more....
  276. [22:41:19] <briansuda> agreed a single validator would be good, if you look at the Mailing list archives there recently was a discussion about that....
  277. [22:42:25] * DanC (n=connolly@pdpc/supporter/active/DanC) has joined #microformats
  278. [22:42:25] <jibot> DanC is Dan Connolly http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/
  279. [22:44:27] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  280. [22:45:02] <tantek> x2v is a micro-validator of sorts :)
  281. [22:46:01] * izo (n=izo@lib59-5-82-243-109-1.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  282. [22:47:36] <yakk> briansuda, I've been away for three weeks so I've been furiously deleting mailing list posts
  283. [22:51:46] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has left #microformats
  284. [22:55:23] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6206 * DanC * (+227) Existing Practices -
  285. [22:56:44] <mfbot> [[meeting-minutes-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=meeting-minutes-examples&diff=0&oldid=6207 * DanC * (+117) W3C meeting minutes tools
  286. [22:59:53] * bear is now known as bear_mtg
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  288. [23:05:15] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
  289. [23:07:04] * jbergius (n=jbergius@a88-112-42-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit ()
  290. [23:14:06] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  291. [23:14:18] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
  292. [23:21:38] <tantek> it's amazing how long some of these problems have been around (c.f. meeting-minutes)
  293. [23:21:45] * tantek is waiting for TimBL to propose the "physics paper" microformat and then the circle will be complete. ;)
  294. [23:23:02] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
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  296. [23:31:48] * bear_mtg is now known as bear
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  299. [23:37:27] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) has joined #microformats
  300. [23:41:47] * briansuda (i=briansud@ACA21499.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  301. [23:41:47] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  302. [23:49:38] * tantek_ (n=tantek@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  303. [23:56:25] * bear is now known as bear_dinner
  304. [23:57:12] <mfbot> [[testimonials]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=testimonials&diff=0&oldid=6208 * LizDunn * (+465)
  305. [23:58:22] * amanuel (n=amanuel@d150-138-173.home.cgocable.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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