IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-05-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  17. [01:37:26] <mfbot> [[s5-tools]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=s5-tools&diff=0&oldid=6209 * Remi * (+2) internal link correction
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  20. [01:42:07] <mfbot> [[citation-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=citation-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6210 * Brian * (+11) added journal to the list of implied schema
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  27. [02:15:34] <mfbot> [[uid-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6211 * BenjaminCarlyle * (+657) Add UID + SOURCE option
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  30. [02:16:30] <mfbot> [[uid-brainstorming]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=uid-brainstorming&diff=0&oldid=6212 * BenjaminCarlyle * (+2) Fix formatting
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  34. [02:21:29] <jibot> Atamido is Paul Bryson, http://orangeman.commo.de/
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  49. [04:05:10] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  55. [04:21:46] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  115. [08:21:44] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  118. [08:27:31] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
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  122. [08:43:30] <KevinMarks> hi suw
  123. [08:43:38] <Suw> hallo
  124. [08:44:04] <KevinMarks> you should know your hcalender feed was a source of lots of test cases...
  125. [08:44:12] <Suw> really?
  126. [08:44:18] <Suw> it still acts bizarrely some times
  127. [08:44:33] <tantek> welcome Suw!
  128. [08:44:46] <Suw> thank you tantek!
  129. [08:45:01] <Suw> i am less crazy with work atm, so i am trying ot hang out in irc again more often
  130. [08:45:22] <tantek> Suw, if you have a moment, I would love your thoughts/opinions on the hcard-authoring page: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring
  131. [08:46:43] <Suw> i've opened that in my browser and will read it when i'm feeling a bit brighter
  132. [08:46:52] <Suw> had an awful two days at the wemedia conference, so recovering today
  133. [08:52:02] <tantek> Suw, hopefully it shouldn't be too much of a challenge to read
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  135. [08:54:12] <Suw> tantek: i'm sure it's not. i think i just need more breakfast. my brain can't parse anything longer than 255 characters right now ;-)
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  142. [09:12:15] <trovster> Hey tantek, I've worked on the hCards, from what we discussed yesterday.
  143. [09:17:10] <tantek> trovster, very cool
  144. [09:17:35] <trovster> Is that better?
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  146. [09:22:08] <jibot> bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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  149. [09:27:28] <trovster> Now I need to get the repeating hCalendar set up correctly.
  150. [09:33:46] <tantek> yes
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  152. [09:47:06] <trovster> What do you recommend? You said it's a pain getting recurring event setup
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  164. [11:51:02] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-79-46.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  165. [11:51:02] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
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  167. [11:59:05] <BenjaminCarlyle> Morning all :)
  168. [11:59:35] <BenjaminCarlyle> Can I ask about the disconnect between the meaning of url in iCalendar and vCard, and subseqently the meaning and use of the "source" attribute?
  169. [12:01:59] <BenjaminCarlyle> iCalendar says that url provides a more dynamic rendition of the information from the calendar component. I read that as effectively "rel-bookmark". vCard says that url specifies a url associated with the object the vCard refers to, ie the person's home page or other identifying url.
  170. [12:03:31] <BenjaminCarlyle> vCard says that source is "information how to find the source of the vCard". I'm not sure if that is a url for a user's calendar, for the user themselves, or a bookmark for the vcard itself.
  171. [12:04:00] <BenjaminCarlyle> The hcalendar examples use url to refer to a web site about the event, I think. That seems to contradict the rfc, but makes more sense in the context of vCard.
  172. [12:04:31] <BenjaminCarlyle> I think this all feeds into the uid/permalink microformat :)
  173. [12:07:29] <tantek> benjamin, a web site about the event will certainly have "a more dynamic rendition of the information" about the event
  174. [12:07:39] <tantek> and thus it is proper usage per the spec
  175. [12:08:22] <tantek> (iCalendar RFC2445). Note that "more dynamic rendition of the information" is insuffiicent to conclude "rel-bookmark". There is nothing indicating a permalink semantic.
  176. [12:09:17] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=6213 * 1146831609 * (+4136)
  177. [12:09:28] <mfbot> [[Talk:hatom-tutorial]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:hatom-tutorial * 1146831609 * (+4136)
  178. [12:09:34] <mfbot> [[Talk:irc-meetups]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:irc-meetups * 1146831609 * (+4136)
  179. [12:09:45] <mfbot> [[Talk:simple-bsd-license]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:simple-bsd-license * 1146831609 * (+4136)
  180. [12:09:52] <tantek> ah fresh spam to fry
  181. [12:09:56] <mfbot> [[Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming * 1146831609 * (+4136)
  182. [12:10:02] <mfbot> [[Talk:rest/property]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:rest/property * 1146831609 * (+4136)
  183. [12:10:23] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:1146831609" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  184. [12:10:33] <tantek> toast
  185. [12:10:39] <mfbot> [[chat-brainstorming]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/chat-brainstorming * 1146831669 * (+4136)
  186. [12:10:55] <mfbot> [[User:Federico]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Federico * 1146831669 * (+4136)
  187. [12:11:01] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:rest/property": spam
  188. [12:11:12] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "Talk:directory-inclusion-brainstorming": spam
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  190. [12:11:24] <mfbot> [[Talk:citation-irc-meetup]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:citation-irc-meetup * 1146831669 * (+4136)
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  193. [12:11:37] <mfbot> [[Talk:xfolk-issues]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Talk:xfolk-issues * 1146831669 * (+4136)
  194. [12:11:43] <mfbot> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=6214 * Tantek * (-4136) Reverted edit of 1146831609, changed back to last version by Brush
  195. [12:12:05] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:1146831669" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
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  199. [12:13:23] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/delete]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/delete&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) deleted "chat-brainstorming": spam
  200. [12:19:10] <BenjaminCarlyle> tantek: So what about the usage of url in the current uid brainstorming. Does that imply permalink, or is extraneous. Does it simply mean "see more..."?
  201. [12:20:42] * imajes (n=imajes@growl/imajes) has joined #microformats
  202. [12:20:59] <tantek> the combination of uid+url may be sufficient to infer permalink, yes
  203. [12:21:29] <BenjaminCarlyle> The two definitions for url (vCard and iCalendar) do seem to be different, although not fundamentally incompatible. I don't think there is language in the vCard rfc that says any of the vCard data should be present at the end of the url. That language appears to be there in iCalendar.
  204. [12:21:49] * EliasT (n=EliasT_@c-24-63-36-43.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  205. [12:21:51] <tantek> there is certainly more such language in icalendar
  206. [12:22:08] <tantek> but it does not say that all the icalendar data will be there
  207. [12:22:16] <BenjaminCarlyle> tantek: If url can be just the event's url and that url doesn't contain a microformat, then does that url class still imply permalink?
  208. [12:22:16] <tantek> you can only infer that some of it will be
  209. [12:22:51] <tantek> url by itself does not imply permalink regardless
  210. [12:23:01] <tantek> independent of whether the url contains a microformat or not
  211. [12:23:51] <BenjaminCarlyle> My reading would imply that it is the place you should look for an updated or more complete version of the data... but is my reading faulty?
  212. [12:24:24] <BenjaminCarlyle> Should you just get it from wherever you got it last time?
  213. [12:25:22] <BenjaminCarlyle> :) What do we mean by permalink, anyway?
  214. [12:27:07] <BenjaminCarlyle> Hrmm... a url that can be used in citations might be a useful extraction of wikipedia's discourse on the subject.
  215. [12:27:47] <BenjaminCarlyle> In which case url + uid would make sense, and rel-bookmark could be considered equivalent to those two attributes.
  216. [12:28:37] * markp (n=markp@adsl-150-136-209.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  217. [12:30:03] <BenjaminCarlyle> Does permalink imply anything about the information at the other end, though? My naieve definition would have been more like "the place you go to get an updated or canonical version of the content".
  218. [12:31:45] * csarven (i=nevrasc@modemcable169.198-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #microformats
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  220. [12:42:37] <jibot> amanuel is Amanuel, the social ambassador at http://otavo.com
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  222. [13:08:03] <BenjaminCarlyle> Night, all.
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  231. [14:08:41] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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  236. [14:51:04] <mfbot> [[Main Page-fr]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page-fr&diff=0&oldid=6215 * Remi * (+3) Introduction - quelques corrections
  237. [15:00:24] * remi is now known as Remi
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  239. [15:05:51] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC+02)
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  245. [15:43:14] * tantek sets mode +o RobertBachmann
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  248. [16:01:17] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  249. [16:07:02] <tantek> Note, looks like I wasn't getting email at my cs.stanford address for about 9 hours this morning. I'll check the list archives, but in case anyone sent me email from about midnight last night to 9am this morning, assume I didn't get it.
  250. [16:07:09] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
  251. [16:19:27] <mfbot> [[to-do]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=to-do&diff=0&oldid=6216 * RobertBachmann * (+889) Robert Bachmann -
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  256. [16:51:54] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  257. [16:52:28] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  258. [17:05:41] * bear_afk is now known as bear_lunch
  259. [17:13:39] * d4rr3ll reads tantek's blog post from 4/30 and wonders if there is he might be interestred in having a quick look at something I'm developing?
  260. [17:22:56] * d4rr3ll (n=d4rr3ll@taylor1.plus.com) has left #microformats
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  273. [18:13:15] <jibot> hober is Edward O'Connor and works for EVDB on http://eventful.com/ and lives in San Diego, CA (-08:00)
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  276. [18:18:23] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  277. [18:18:33] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has left #microformats
  278. [18:24:50] <d4rr3ll> hi, would someone be able to point me in the direction of anything the might be using hListing, or ideally hProduct?
  279. [18:26:37] <csarven> http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-extended-examples
  280. [18:28:47] <d4rr3ll> I've read through that, but there are no example in there for 'photo' - is it simply a case of wrapping adding the class 'photo' to the reelevant image?
  281. [18:29:10] <d4rr3ll> eg. <img class="photo"....
  282. [19:07:23] * jbergius (n=jbergius@a88-112-42-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi) has joined #microformats
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  288. [19:55:07] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  289. [19:55:07] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
  290. [19:56:39] * bear is now known as bear_afk
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  293. [20:59:47] <tantek_> d4rr3ll, you may want to check out the media-info-examples page
  294. [21:00:04] <tantek_> that relates to describing information about a photo that people often publish online with the photo itself
  295. [21:04:34] * markp (n=markp@adsl-150-136-209.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  300. [21:37:17] * trovster (n=trovster@host86-138-188-72.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  301. [21:37:18] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and runs www.csslounge.co.uk
  302. [21:37:57] * trovster (n=trovster@host86-138-188-72.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) Quit (Client Quit)
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  304. [21:57:05] <briansuda> it's friday afternoon, almost quitin' time... here's another microformats side project (any and all feedback is welcome - remember it is an early itteration) http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/cheatsheet/
  305. [22:07:31] * jbergius (n=jbergius@a88-112-42-2.elisa-laajakaista.fi) Quit ()
  306. [22:11:04] <trovster> Hey Brian, wanna change your error about 'address' on your convertor?
  307. [22:19:48] <briansuda> trovster, we talked abit about that the other day and we should continue....
  308. [22:19:59] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("biab")
  309. [22:20:14] <trovster> 'we'? Continue to...?
  310. [22:20:35] <briansuda> Tantek, brought it to my attention.
  311. [22:21:13] <briansuda> The tricky thing is that i can only send one thing to the HTTP stream, either an HTML document or a vCard
  312. [22:21:31] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@dsl092-180-243.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  313. [22:21:31] <briansuda> so errors are easy... that is a full stop.
  314. [22:21:39] <trovster> Well, it's not an error.
  315. [22:21:54] <briansuda> warnings need to be dealt with in a different manner that has never been discussed
  316. [22:22:42] <briansuda> Tantek's view was to halt on warnings as well... the problem (as in your situation) is that 'address' is just a CSS value, not a microformat
  317. [22:22:56] <briansuda> yet i am stopping everything...
  318. [22:23:26] <trovster> I'm trying to implement as many microformats in all the work I do, and I'm going to concentrate a lot for my new personal site, and I also promote and teach the use of microformats to a range of people (especially the Multipack), but I'm getting pretty damn frustrated with all of this stuff now
  319. [22:24:34] <briansuda> part of it is that no one is a full-time Microformats.org employee. I'm more than willing to help-out and fix stuff, but i do it in my freetime. So sometime things are developed abit slower.
  320. [22:24:54] <briansuda> it's bottom-up design
  321. [22:25:11] <briansuda> trovster, what can i specifically do to help?
  322. [22:25:55] <trovster> I realise this a is all freetime work, and it;'s great work and all the things that have been implemented are pretty well thought out and complex.
  323. [22:26:39] * BenjaminCarlyle (n=fuzzy@c210-49-79-46.rochd2.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #microformats
  324. [22:26:39] <jibot> BenjaminCarlyle is http://soundadvice.id.au/blog/, GMT 1000
  325. [22:27:02] <trovster> However, stopping things based upon a possible warning, flagging as an error seems very counterproductive to the promotion and update of this technology
  326. [22:28:00] <briansuda> i would tend to agree... that is why we need to have this conversation.... it's never been an issue before now.
  327. [22:28:46] <briansuda> Does the technorati.com service throw errors? or just mine? (i don't remember what they have implented)
  328. [22:29:11] <trovster> I've only used yours, personally. And I don;t know of any others!
  329. [22:29:49] <briansuda> i would say in the short term that you use X2V to test, but the http://feeds.technorati.com/contacts/
  330. [22:29:56] <briansuda> in production
  331. [22:31:06] <briansuda> can you add this discussion about WARNINGS and ERRORS here http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-parsing
  332. [22:33:43] <trovster> Tried to import in to iCal, and I get no importable cards found
  333. [22:33:59] <briansuda> iCal or addressbook?
  334. [22:34:08] <trovster> Addressbook
  335. [22:34:24] <briansuda> what's the link i'll have a look
  336. [22:34:51] <trovster> Who do I msg to register my nick, it's currently a private URL
  337. [22:34:59] <trovster> And this channel is logged!
  338. [22:35:21] <briansuda> that i don't know... you can email it to me, or IM
  339. [22:36:21] <trovster> What IM?
  340. [22:36:45] <briansuda> http://suda.co.uk/contact/
  341. [22:36:53] <briansuda> that has all the info
  342. [22:37:33] <tantek_> as an hCard no less :)
  343. [22:37:36] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
  344. [22:37:37] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
  345. [22:39:27] <trovster> Did you get the PM ?
  346. [22:45:24] <briansuda> trovster, are you getting my messages back?
  347. [22:45:36] <trovster> nope...
  348. [22:45:48] <trovster> You have to register with nickserv
  349. [22:46:55] <briansuda> ok, i think i know what the problem is....
  350. [22:47:19] <briansuda> it has to do with the escaping of the '+'s i managed to get it to work
  351. [23:00:43] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has left #microformats
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  353. [23:25:15] <mfbot> [[rest/property]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/property&diff=0&oldid=6217 * DrErnie * (+85) The Problem - examples
  354. [23:26:15] * bewest (n=ben@httpcraft/bewest) has joined #microformats
  355. [23:26:15] <jibot> bewest is curious about emerging standards
  356. [23:27:18] <bewest> so... I've moved to SF
  357. [23:27:34] <bewest> if any mf'ers want to hang out sometime that'd be cool
  358. [23:31:07] <mfbot> [[rest/property]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/property&diff=0&oldid=6218 * DrErnie * (+309) relProperty - why not RDF?
  359. [23:33:19] * Atamido (n=atamido@cpe-67-9-173-252.austin.res.rr.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  360. [23:34:46] * bear is now known as bear_dinner
  361. [23:35:58] <mfbot> [[rest/property]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/property&diff=0&oldid=6219 * DrErnie * (+315) &lt;link> - one each
  362. [23:39:52] * dustym (n=dustym@office.cavoksolutions.com) Quit ()
  363. [23:42:24] <mfbot> [[rest/property]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest/property&diff=0&oldid=6220 * DrErnie * (+526) Open Issues -
  364. [23:49:40] <mfbot> [[rest]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rest&diff=0&oldid=6221 * DrErnie * (+191) Implementations -
  365. [23:53:08] * briansuda (i=briansud@ACA693F3.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  366. [23:53:08] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of X2V fame
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