IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-29
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- [01:57:09] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [02:46:27] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [07:29:58] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7791 * Games * (+78) Related Pages -
- [07:30:14] <mfbot>
[[podcasts]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts&diff=0&oldid=7792 * Games * (+80) this year -
- [07:30:35] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7793 * Games * (+79) Related Pages -
- [07:30:51] <mfbot>
[[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=7794 * Games * (+79) 2005 -
- [07:31:17] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7795 * Tantek * (-78) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by Trovster
- [07:31:33] <mfbot>
[[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Games" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
- [07:32:04] <mfbot>
[[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=7796 * Tantek * (-79) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by Brian
- [07:32:20] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7797 * Tantek * (-79) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by MSI Webmaster
- [07:32:31] <mfbot>
[[podcasts]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts&diff=0&oldid=7798 * Tantek * (-80) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by DrewMcLellan
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- [09:21:55] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-ja&diff=0&oldid=7799 * Vant * (+359) scope, discussions, q&a, and issues
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- [10:13:18] <jibot>
Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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- [10:20:42] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [10:34:32] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
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- [13:27:23] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [13:28:38] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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- [13:59:13] <jibot>
tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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- [14:25:18] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [14:38:34] <jibot>
ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
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- [15:22:07] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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- [15:23:36] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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- [15:28:21] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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- [15:30:41] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-ja&diff=0&oldid=7800 * Vant * (+90) Tag Spaces - first 1/3
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- [15:59:03] <mfbot>
[[rel-tag-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-ja&diff=0&oldid=7801 * Vant * (+746) Tag Spaces - completed.
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- [16:57:26] <davecardwell>
hrm, I suppose I should do something constructive
- [16:57:37] <davecardwell>
sigh
- [16:58:11] * dc_coffee is now known as dc_
- [16:59:31] <davecardwell>
hrm, wrong channel eh? :p
- [16:59:45] <Phae>
heh
- [16:59:49] <Phae>
What did you plan to do?
- [17:00:03] <davecardwell>
that was supposed to be to you on #multipack :p
- [17:00:15] <Phae>
Oh well!
- [17:00:21] <davecardwell>
at least you got it
- [17:00:23] <davecardwell>
toodlepip
- [17:00:26] <Phae>
:)
- [17:00:38] <alexandermuse>
:)
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- [17:08:55] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats&diff=0&oldid=7802 * Tantek * (+394) added links to photos etc.
- [17:09:52] <mfbot>
[[events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats&diff=0&oldid=7803 * Tantek * (+24)
- [17:11:27] <mfbot>
[[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=7804 * Tantek * (+186)
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- [17:27:57] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [18:49:19] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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- [19:40:21] <drewinthehead>
'lo
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- [19:44:17] <tantek>
hello drew
- [19:44:25] <drewinthehead>
hi tantek
- [19:48:38] <drewinthehead>
i've been looking at this visual timeline project http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/
- [19:49:06] <drewinthehead>
looks like it should be simple to write a xsl to covert hCalendar to their XML format
- [19:49:43] <briansuda>
do you have a link to their XML format?
- [19:51:27] <drewinthehead>
i did ... trying to find it again
- [19:52:03] <drewinthehead>
http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/examples/jfk/jfk.xml
- [19:52:13] <briansuda>
i'm knee deep in XSLT right now, it shouldn't be difficult to do
- [19:54:18] <briansuda>
that is pretty straight forward with two exceptions
- [19:54:27] <drewinthehead>
dates?
- [19:54:33] <briansuda>
1) there is escaped HTML formatting in the description
- [19:54:44] <briansuda>
2) their dates are RFC
- [19:54:44] <briansuda>
yeah
- [19:55:09] <briansuda>
ISO->RFC is not difficult for PHP, but for a string library like XSLT it is not easy
- [19:55:36] <briansuda>
do they have a schema somewhere? maybe the actually do accept ISO?
- [19:55:47] <drewinthehead>
i'll dig around
- [19:56:40] <drewinthehead>
i like the fact that for documentation that's missing, they just suggest you read the code ;)
- [19:58:15] <briansuda>
the code tells us what we CAN do, but not what we can't :(
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- [20:01:12] <drewinthehead>
what format is ISO8601?
- [20:01:32] <briansuda>
YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS
- [20:01:57] <drewinthehead>
which is the same as hCalendar, isn't it?
- [20:02:07] <drewinthehead>
or is that minus the dashes?
- [20:02:28] <drewinthehead>
looks like the javascript can handle ISO8601, anyway
- [20:03:03] <briansuda>
yes on all
- [20:03:25] <briansuda>
http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime
- [20:06:55] <drewinthehead>
an alternative approach would be to write an interface layer between vevents on the page and the timeline's api
- [20:07:15] <drewinthehead>
that'd be less flexible
- [20:07:23] <tantek>
- and : are optional in ISO8601
- [20:08:16] <drewinthehead>
that's good to know ...
- [20:08:52] <briansuda>
ISO dates get a bit confusing because "12" is a valid date, but no one is exactly sure what it means.
- [20:09:07] <briansuda>
Also, i suspect that they are using RFC dates because ISOs don't do BCE
- [20:09:11] <tantek>
the year 12
- [20:09:15] <tantek>
next question
- [20:09:25] <briansuda>
and one of their examples is dinosaurs timeline
- [20:09:45] * drewinthehead likes dinosaurs
- [20:22:29] * briansuda is looking to see if http://www.dandelife.com allows importing? and if so, if it handles ISO dates...
- [20:27:40] * briansuda doesn't see much of anything at that site...
- [20:37:53] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
- [20:37:53] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
- [20:54:57] <briansuda>
ah, procrastination sometimes leads to cool things.... http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/geo/
- [20:55:12] <briansuda>
there is no a bookmarklet to extract geo microformats and pass them straight into google maps
- [20:55:43] <briansuda>
that will also be the permanent home for my geo microformats work, so feel free to bookmark it
- [20:56:45] <drewinthehead>
awesomeness, briansuda
- [20:57:14] <briansuda>
thanks, kick the tyres abit.
- [20:57:19] <drewinthehead>
works nicely with my LPG site
- [20:58:03] <briansuda>
i dropped a link a few days ago and it has started to appear on the web and i thought i'd best get something more permanent and descriptive on the interweb
- [20:58:16] <briansuda>
the dconstruct.org site is good to test
- [21:07:56] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
- [21:16:05] <mfbot>
[[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=7805 * Brian * (+324) Added a link to my Geo XSLT web service.
- [21:16:07] * Molly (n=Molly@ip68-0-175-195.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:16:19] * Molly waves hello
- [21:16:23] <briansuda>
hello molly
- [21:16:30] <Molly>
hey Brian
- [21:16:43] <briansuda>
i just listened to your @media presentation via a podcast
- [21:18:10] <Molly>
:)
- [21:18:32] <Molly>
I can't listen to myself after a few minutes
- [21:18:37] <Molly>
it makes me feel weird.
- [21:18:38] <Molly>
lol
- [21:19:18] <Molly>
i hope you found it a good listen!
- [21:19:40] <briansuda>
i did.
- [21:21:33] <Molly>
cool, it was very interesting doing that right in front of Richard Ishida, seeing as he's my W3C mentor primarily, and I have almost no practical experience in the technical aspects of i18n
- [21:21:49] <Molly>
but he was really supportive, as he always is! So that made me feel good :)
- [21:22:05] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
- [21:22:06] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
- [21:22:17] * Molly waves to Chris
- [21:22:36] * pnhChris wonders if he's in the right place
- [21:23:10] * Molly just likes to confuse pnhChris
- [21:25:05] <Molly>
so I have a question for the room at large regarding microformats. If you were to teach newcomers one practical thing about microformats first, what would it be?
- [21:26:40] <drewinthehead>
that existing content can be marked up to improve it - it's not about throwing stuff away and starting again
- [21:27:01] <Molly>
(okay, drew just confused me now . . . cross room posting!)
- [21:27:14] <briansuda>
probably something to do with the DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself), why make a contact page, a vcard, .... just do it once - that is pretty practical
- [21:27:22] <Molly>
ooh, okay
- [21:27:38] <Molly>
Drew: I'm on that part of it, extend the existing
- [21:27:39] <briansuda>
same for events.
- [21:27:55] <Molly>
so do it all at once
- [21:28:07] <tantek>
start with contact info because it is easier to understand and do
- [21:28:16] <Molly>
okay
- [21:28:20] <Molly>
contact info 1.
- [21:29:05] <tantek>
briansuda, DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) is a very programmer-specific term
- [21:29:13] <tantek>
I think molly was referring to general newcomers
- [21:29:16] <tantek>
not just geek newcomers
- [21:29:19] <Molly>
the audience is newcomers
- [21:29:25] <Molly>
yeah but actually a bit more broad
- [21:29:26] <briansuda>
agreed, the term DRY is specific, but the concept isn't
- [21:29:30] <Molly>
IT people, but that's broad
- [21:29:47] <Molly>
the audience really is anyone who works in computing. So it has to be very clear, very practical
- [21:29:59] <Molly>
low on the jargon, although it's always cool to introduce some here and there where appropriate
- [21:30:47] <drewinthehead>
GEO makes for a nice demo with briansuda's new favelet
- [21:32:48] <Molly>
i want to do a simple stepped demo
- [21:32:54] <Molly>
with 3-5 steps
- [21:33:06] <briansuda>
the other thing to talk about (depending on how savvy they audience is on CSS) is that you have to name it something, why not use the semantic microformat terms
- [21:33:07] <Molly>
that get people using some very practical aspect of microformats (contact is a very good one!)
- [21:33:22] <Molly>
mixed on the CSS. That's always my challenge
- [21:34:32] <Molly>
The important thing is to give people something that makes them say "Oh THAT is why microformats make sense . . . I can do this on all my client sites"
- [21:34:40] <pnhChris>
contact + events are probably the best fodder for "wow that's useful" examples.. but there's a danger in getting cought up in supported aps
- [21:35:12] <briansuda>
tags are pretty vanilla, you add it, you see yourself in search results
- [21:35:24] <briansuda>
same for the kitchen.technorati.com
- [21:35:33] <briansuda>
there is instant feedback
- [21:36:13] <Molly>
tags themselves
- [21:36:24] <Molly>
i'm looking for site applications beyond that
- [21:36:35] <Molly>
contact, calendar, etc.
- [21:36:39] <Molly>
real simple "how to"
- [21:36:53] <Molly>
but that makes sense as a stepping stone to other ideas
- [21:37:04] <Molly>
start with the most convincing example
- [21:37:07] <Molly>
then build over time
- [21:37:11] <Molly>
to the more complex. That's what I want to achieve
- [21:38:01] <briansuda>
hResume is starting to pick-up, although there isn't much support for aggrigation or applications
- [21:38:21] <briansuda>
i think contacts and calendar are pretty solid
- [21:38:22] <pnhChris>
hatom can be a good quickie example too
- [21:38:34] <pnhChris>
but i'd start with either contacts or events
- [21:38:37] <drewinthehead>
quite geeky though
- [21:38:44] <Molly>
i think contacts is prime
- [21:38:48] <Molly>
calendar next
- [21:38:52] <drewinthehead>
for hAtom you need to understand Atom
- [21:38:53] <Molly>
people can see right away
- [21:38:55] <briansuda>
with hAtom you can do the whole "round-trip"
- [21:39:07] <Molly>
not yet, hAtom is too specific for my audience right now
- [21:39:16] <Molly>
I need to be general, easy, clear
- [21:39:18] <Molly>
it's difficult
- [21:39:18] <pnhChris>
hatom you can go through a proxy to the validator on the other side for a geed
- [21:39:19] <pnhChris>
geek
- [21:39:20] <pnhChris>
but
- [21:39:22] <Molly>
because I'm still figuring it out myself
- [21:39:24] <pnhChris>
for the non geek
- [21:39:30] <pnhChris>
you can have dirt simple feeds
- [21:39:36] <pnhChris>
like my version history stuff
- [21:39:56] <Molly>
hard to imagine perhaps, but most people out there
- [21:40:05] <Molly>
are still not totally getting feeds in the first place
- [21:40:14] <pnhChris>
right
- [21:40:24] <briansuda>
nor GEO :(
- [21:40:24] <pnhChris>
its not the first thing i'd introduce them with
- [21:40:29] <Molly>
no, me either :)
- [21:40:32] <Molly>
that's my point
- [21:40:39] <Molly>
contacts, calendars, events
- [21:40:42] <Molly>
reviews
- [21:40:42] <pnhChris>
but it can be a small amount of html that results in high use in the ent
- [21:40:45] <Molly>
people understand all that
- [21:40:53] <Molly>
the idea now is to figure out the most practical way to show them HOW
- [21:41:12] <pnhChris>
like this: http://placenamehere.com/mf/nnwextract/#versionhistory
- [21:41:17] * pnhChris nods
- [21:41:18] <briansuda>
http://microformats.org/blog/2006/07/28/steve-martin-has-an-hcard/ or this
- [21:41:26] <drewinthehead>
is the presentation at a conference, Molly?
- [21:42:05] <drewinthehead>
hCalendaring the conference schedule and subscribing to it in iCal might make a powerful demo
- [21:42:30] <Molly>
no this is for a series of articles
- [21:42:36] * briansuda can't seem to get http://www.digital-web.com/ to open? anyone else - there is a good microformats primer article there
- [21:42:37] <drewinthehead>
ah, k :)
- [21:42:40] <Molly>
although one begets the other
- [21:43:23] <Molly>
brian, it's down for me too
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- [23:59:02] <bewes1>
the semantics of <dl> imply a one to one relationship of <dt> -> <dd>?
- [23:59:30] <briansuda>
no, you can have multiple DDs for one DT
- [23:59:36] <bewes1>
ahhhh
- [23:59:37] <bewes1>
:-)
- [23:59:38] <bewes1>
nice
- [23:59:50] <briansuda>
i'm pretty sure about that, you'd best double check
- [23:59:58] <factoryjoe>
yes
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