IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-07-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

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  13. [01:57:09] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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  22. [02:46:27] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  53. [07:29:58] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7791 * Games * (+78) Related Pages -
  54. [07:30:14] <mfbot> [[podcasts]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts&diff=0&oldid=7792 * Games * (+80) this year -
  55. [07:30:35] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7793 * Games * (+79) Related Pages -
  56. [07:30:51] <mfbot> [[presentations]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=7794 * Games * (+79) 2005 -
  57. [07:31:17] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=7795 * Tantek * (-78) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by Trovster
  58. [07:31:33] <mfbot> [[Special:Log/block]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Special:Log/block&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+0) blocked "User:Games" with an expiry time of infinite: spam
  59. [07:32:04] <mfbot> [[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=7796 * Tantek * (-79) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by Brian
  60. [07:32:20] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=7797 * Tantek * (-79) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by MSI Webmaster
  61. [07:32:31] <mfbot> [[podcasts]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=podcasts&diff=0&oldid=7798 * Tantek * (-80) Reverted edit of Games, changed back to last version by DrewMcLellan
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  70. [09:21:55] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-ja&diff=0&oldid=7799 * Vant * (+359) scope, discussions, q&a, and issues
  71. [09:37:13] * drewinthe_ is now known as drewinthehead
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  76. [10:13:18] <jibot> Phae is Frances Berriman of http://www.fberriman.com/
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  80. [10:20:42] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  82. [10:34:32] <Whiskey_M> 'lo
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  91. [13:27:23] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  94. [13:28:38] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  95. [13:28:38] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  103. [13:59:13] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
  104. [13:59:33] * ChanServ sets mode +o tantek
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  108. [14:25:18] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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  111. [14:38:34] <jibot> ryanlowe is Ryan Lowe, http://www.fanconcert.com
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  119. [15:22:07] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
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  122. [15:23:36] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  125. [15:28:21] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
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  128. [15:30:41] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-ja&diff=0&oldid=7800 * Vant * (+90) Tag Spaces - first 1/3
  129. [15:56:48] * [HAM]BlueMaex is now known as maexweg
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  131. [15:59:03] <mfbot> [[rel-tag-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=rel-tag-ja&diff=0&oldid=7801 * Vant * (+746) Tag Spaces - completed.
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  136. [16:57:26] <davecardwell> hrm, I suppose I should do something constructive
  137. [16:57:37] <davecardwell> sigh
  138. [16:58:11] * dc_coffee is now known as dc_
  139. [16:59:31] <davecardwell> hrm, wrong channel eh? :p
  140. [16:59:45] <Phae> heh
  141. [16:59:49] <Phae> What did you plan to do?
  142. [17:00:03] <davecardwell> that was supposed to be to you on #multipack :p
  143. [17:00:15] <Phae> Oh well!
  144. [17:00:21] <davecardwell> at least you got it
  145. [17:00:23] <davecardwell> toodlepip
  146. [17:00:26] <Phae> :)
  147. [17:00:38] <alexandermuse> :)
  148. [17:06:06] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  149. [17:08:55] <mfbot> [[events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats&diff=0&oldid=7802 * Tantek * (+394) added links to photos etc.
  150. [17:09:52] <mfbot> [[events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=events/2006-07-11-an-event-apart-microformats&diff=0&oldid=7803 * Tantek * (+24)
  151. [17:11:27] <mfbot> [[presentations]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=presentations&diff=0&oldid=7804 * Tantek * (+186)
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  153. [17:27:57] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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  159. [18:49:19] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  164. [19:40:21] <drewinthehead> 'lo
  165. [19:41:03] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  166. [19:44:01] * tantek_ is now known as tantek
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  168. [19:44:17] <tantek> hello drew
  169. [19:44:25] <drewinthehead> hi tantek
  170. [19:48:38] <drewinthehead> i've been looking at this visual timeline project http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/
  171. [19:49:06] <drewinthehead> looks like it should be simple to write a xsl to covert hCalendar to their XML format
  172. [19:49:43] <briansuda> do you have a link to their XML format?
  173. [19:51:27] <drewinthehead> i did ... trying to find it again
  174. [19:52:03] <drewinthehead> http://simile.mit.edu/timeline/examples/jfk/jfk.xml
  175. [19:52:13] <briansuda> i'm knee deep in XSLT right now, it shouldn't be difficult to do
  176. [19:54:18] <briansuda> that is pretty straight forward with two exceptions
  177. [19:54:27] <drewinthehead> dates?
  178. [19:54:33] <briansuda> 1) there is escaped HTML formatting in the description
  179. [19:54:44] <briansuda> 2) their dates are RFC
  180. [19:54:44] <briansuda> yeah
  181. [19:55:09] <briansuda> ISO->RFC is not difficult for PHP, but for a string library like XSLT it is not easy
  182. [19:55:36] <briansuda> do they have a schema somewhere? maybe the actually do accept ISO?
  183. [19:55:47] <drewinthehead> i'll dig around
  184. [19:56:40] <drewinthehead> i like the fact that for documentation that's missing, they just suggest you read the code ;)
  185. [19:58:15] <briansuda> the code tells us what we CAN do, but not what we can't :(
  186. [19:59:45] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  187. [20:01:12] <drewinthehead> what format is ISO8601?
  188. [20:01:32] <briansuda> YYYY-MM-DDTHH:MM:SS
  189. [20:01:57] <drewinthehead> which is the same as hCalendar, isn't it?
  190. [20:02:07] <drewinthehead> or is that minus the dashes?
  191. [20:02:28] <drewinthehead> looks like the javascript can handle ISO8601, anyway
  192. [20:03:03] <briansuda> yes on all
  193. [20:03:25] <briansuda> http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime
  194. [20:06:55] <drewinthehead> an alternative approach would be to write an interface layer between vevents on the page and the timeline's api
  195. [20:07:15] <drewinthehead> that'd be less flexible
  196. [20:07:23] <tantek> - and : are optional in ISO8601
  197. [20:08:16] <drewinthehead> that's good to know ...
  198. [20:08:52] <briansuda> ISO dates get a bit confusing because "12" is a valid date, but no one is exactly sure what it means.
  199. [20:09:07] <briansuda> Also, i suspect that they are using RFC dates because ISOs don't do BCE
  200. [20:09:11] <tantek> the year 12
  201. [20:09:15] <tantek> next question
  202. [20:09:25] <briansuda> and one of their examples is dinosaurs timeline
  203. [20:09:45] * drewinthehead likes dinosaurs
  204. [20:22:29] * briansuda is looking to see if http://www.dandelife.com allows importing? and if so, if it handles ISO dates...
  205. [20:27:40] * briansuda doesn't see much of anything at that site...
  206. [20:37:53] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  207. [20:37:53] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  208. [20:54:57] <briansuda> ah, procrastination sometimes leads to cool things.... http://suda.co.uk/projects/microformats/geo/
  209. [20:55:12] <briansuda> there is no a bookmarklet to extract geo microformats and pass them straight into google maps
  210. [20:55:43] <briansuda> that will also be the permanent home for my geo microformats work, so feel free to bookmark it
  211. [20:56:45] <drewinthehead> awesomeness, briansuda
  212. [20:57:14] <briansuda> thanks, kick the tyres abit.
  213. [20:57:19] <drewinthehead> works nicely with my LPG site
  214. [20:58:03] <briansuda> i dropped a link a few days ago and it has started to appear on the web and i thought i'd best get something more permanent and descriptive on the interweb
  215. [20:58:16] <briansuda> the dconstruct.org site is good to test
  216. [21:07:56] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) Quit ()
  217. [21:16:05] <mfbot> [[geo]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=geo&diff=0&oldid=7805 * Brian * (+324) Added a link to my Geo XSLT web service.
  218. [21:16:07] * Molly (n=Molly@ip68-0-175-195.tc.ph.cox.net) has joined #microformats
  219. [21:16:19] * Molly waves hello
  220. [21:16:23] <briansuda> hello molly
  221. [21:16:30] <Molly> hey Brian
  222. [21:16:43] <briansuda> i just listened to your @media presentation via a podcast
  223. [21:18:10] <Molly> :)
  224. [21:18:32] <Molly> I can't listen to myself after a few minutes
  225. [21:18:37] <Molly> it makes me feel weird.
  226. [21:18:38] <Molly> lol
  227. [21:19:18] <Molly> i hope you found it a good listen!
  228. [21:19:40] <briansuda> i did.
  229. [21:21:33] <Molly> cool, it was very interesting doing that right in front of Richard Ishida, seeing as he's my W3C mentor primarily, and I have almost no practical experience in the technical aspects of i18n
  230. [21:21:49] <Molly> but he was really supportive, as he always is! So that made me feel good :)
  231. [21:22:05] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  232. [21:22:06] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  233. [21:22:17] * Molly waves to Chris
  234. [21:22:36] * pnhChris wonders if he's in the right place
  235. [21:23:10] * Molly just likes to confuse pnhChris
  236. [21:25:05] <Molly> so I have a question for the room at large regarding microformats. If you were to teach newcomers one practical thing about microformats first, what would it be?
  237. [21:26:40] <drewinthehead> that existing content can be marked up to improve it - it's not about throwing stuff away and starting again
  238. [21:27:01] <Molly> (okay, drew just confused me now . . . cross room posting!)
  239. [21:27:14] <briansuda> probably something to do with the DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself), why make a contact page, a vcard, .... just do it once - that is pretty practical
  240. [21:27:22] <Molly> ooh, okay
  241. [21:27:38] <Molly> Drew: I'm on that part of it, extend the existing
  242. [21:27:39] <briansuda> same for events.
  243. [21:27:55] <Molly> so do it all at once
  244. [21:28:07] <tantek> start with contact info because it is easier to understand and do
  245. [21:28:16] <Molly> okay
  246. [21:28:20] <Molly> contact info 1.
  247. [21:29:05] <tantek> briansuda, DRY (Don't Repeat Yourself) is a very programmer-specific term
  248. [21:29:13] <tantek> I think molly was referring to general newcomers
  249. [21:29:16] <tantek> not just geek newcomers
  250. [21:29:19] <Molly> the audience is newcomers
  251. [21:29:25] <Molly> yeah but actually a bit more broad
  252. [21:29:26] <briansuda> agreed, the term DRY is specific, but the concept isn't
  253. [21:29:30] <Molly> IT people, but that's broad
  254. [21:29:47] <Molly> the audience really is anyone who works in computing. So it has to be very clear, very practical
  255. [21:29:59] <Molly> low on the jargon, although it's always cool to introduce some here and there where appropriate
  256. [21:30:47] <drewinthehead> GEO makes for a nice demo with briansuda's new favelet
  257. [21:32:48] <Molly> i want to do a simple stepped demo
  258. [21:32:54] <Molly> with 3-5 steps
  259. [21:33:06] <briansuda> the other thing to talk about (depending on how savvy they audience is on CSS) is that you have to name it something, why not use the semantic microformat terms
  260. [21:33:07] <Molly> that get people using some very practical aspect of microformats (contact is a very good one!)
  261. [21:33:22] <Molly> mixed on the CSS. That's always my challenge
  262. [21:34:32] <Molly> The important thing is to give people something that makes them say "Oh THAT is why microformats make sense . . . I can do this on all my client sites"
  263. [21:34:40] <pnhChris> contact + events are probably the best fodder for "wow that's useful" examples.. but there's a danger in getting cought up in supported aps
  264. [21:35:12] <briansuda> tags are pretty vanilla, you add it, you see yourself in search results
  265. [21:35:24] <briansuda> same for the kitchen.technorati.com
  266. [21:35:33] <briansuda> there is instant feedback
  267. [21:36:13] <Molly> tags themselves
  268. [21:36:24] <Molly> i'm looking for site applications beyond that
  269. [21:36:35] <Molly> contact, calendar, etc.
  270. [21:36:39] <Molly> real simple "how to"
  271. [21:36:53] <Molly> but that makes sense as a stepping stone to other ideas
  272. [21:37:04] <Molly> start with the most convincing example
  273. [21:37:07] <Molly> then build over time
  274. [21:37:11] <Molly> to the more complex. That's what I want to achieve
  275. [21:38:01] <briansuda> hResume is starting to pick-up, although there isn't much support for aggrigation or applications
  276. [21:38:21] <briansuda> i think contacts and calendar are pretty solid
  277. [21:38:22] <pnhChris> hatom can be a good quickie example too
  278. [21:38:34] <pnhChris> but i'd start with either contacts or events
  279. [21:38:37] <drewinthehead> quite geeky though
  280. [21:38:44] <Molly> i think contacts is prime
  281. [21:38:48] <Molly> calendar next
  282. [21:38:52] <drewinthehead> for hAtom you need to understand Atom
  283. [21:38:53] <Molly> people can see right away
  284. [21:38:55] <briansuda> with hAtom you can do the whole "round-trip"
  285. [21:39:07] <Molly> not yet, hAtom is too specific for my audience right now
  286. [21:39:16] <Molly> I need to be general, easy, clear
  287. [21:39:18] <Molly> it's difficult
  288. [21:39:18] <pnhChris> hatom you can go through a proxy to the validator on the other side for a geed
  289. [21:39:19] <pnhChris> geek
  290. [21:39:20] <pnhChris> but
  291. [21:39:22] <Molly> because I'm still figuring it out myself
  292. [21:39:24] <pnhChris> for the non geek
  293. [21:39:30] <pnhChris> you can have dirt simple feeds
  294. [21:39:36] <pnhChris> like my version history stuff
  295. [21:39:56] <Molly> hard to imagine perhaps, but most people out there
  296. [21:40:05] <Molly> are still not totally getting feeds in the first place
  297. [21:40:14] <pnhChris> right
  298. [21:40:24] <briansuda> nor GEO :(
  299. [21:40:24] <pnhChris> its not the first thing i'd introduce them with
  300. [21:40:29] <Molly> no, me either :)
  301. [21:40:32] <Molly> that's my point
  302. [21:40:39] <Molly> contacts, calendars, events
  303. [21:40:42] <Molly> reviews
  304. [21:40:42] <pnhChris> but it can be a small amount of html that results in high use in the ent
  305. [21:40:45] <Molly> people understand all that
  306. [21:40:53] <Molly> the idea now is to figure out the most practical way to show them HOW
  307. [21:41:12] <pnhChris> like this: http://placenamehere.com/mf/nnwextract/#versionhistory
  308. [21:41:17] * pnhChris nods
  309. [21:41:18] <briansuda> http://microformats.org/blog/2006/07/28/steve-martin-has-an-hcard/ or this
  310. [21:41:26] <drewinthehead> is the presentation at a conference, Molly?
  311. [21:42:05] <drewinthehead> hCalendaring the conference schedule and subscribing to it in iCal might make a powerful demo
  312. [21:42:30] <Molly> no this is for a series of articles
  313. [21:42:36] * briansuda can't seem to get http://www.digital-web.com/ to open? anyone else - there is a good microformats primer article there
  314. [21:42:37] <drewinthehead> ah, k :)
  315. [21:42:40] <Molly> although one begets the other
  316. [21:43:23] <Molly> brian, it's down for me too
  317. [21:46:12] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
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  325. [22:48:37] * Molly (n=Molly@ip68-0-175-195.tc.ph.cox.net) has left #microformats
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  332. [23:59:02] <bewes1> the semantics of <dl> imply a one to one relationship of <dt> -> <dd>?
  333. [23:59:30] <briansuda> no, you can have multiple DDs for one DT
  334. [23:59:36] <bewes1> ahhhh
  335. [23:59:37] <bewes1> :-)
  336. [23:59:38] <bewes1> nice
  337. [23:59:50] <briansuda> i'm pretty sure about that, you'd best double check
  338. [23:59:58] <factoryjoe> yes

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