IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-08-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- [00:00:44] <AdamCraven>
Could be a can of worms this question...
- [00:01:09] <AdamCraven>
Most people use <em> over <i>
- [00:01:36] <bewest>
that's no can of worms
- [00:01:38] <AdamCraven>
However, <em> indicates emphasis, but many use it just to create an italic effect
- [00:01:40] <bewest>
that's an easy one
- [00:01:53] <bewest>
html is about markup, not presentation
- [00:01:58] <AdamCraven>
In that case, <i> would be more symantically correct
- [00:02:05] <bewest>
nope
- [00:02:23] <AdamCraven>
why not?
- [00:02:24] <bewest>
if you want a generic container to which apply styling, use one of the anonymous tags... span or div
- [00:02:43] <AdamCraven>
hmm
- [00:03:01] <AdamCraven>
I can see where you're coming from, but it's a lot of extra code
- [00:03:03] <bewest>
people use <i> because it's less typing
- [00:03:15] <bewest>
I use <b> on occasion
- [00:03:21] <bewest>
and it's always out of pure laziness
- [00:03:29] <bewest>
shame on me :-(
- [00:03:57] <AdamCraven>
really a lot of the time we should be using
- [00:04:11] <AdamCraven>
<span class="italic">fish</span>
- [00:04:30] <AdamCraven>
that just seems like a backward step, inefficient if you will
- [00:05:03] <AdamCraven>
you're using the class, but you're not using it symantically
- [00:05:07] <bewest>
yes, class="italic" is a bad classname
- [00:05:08] <AdamCraven>
just for style
- [00:05:37] <bewest>
<span class="keyword">fish</span> is much better
- [00:05:39] <AdamCraven>
but creating <span class="food_we_ate_today">fish</span>
- [00:05:46] <AdamCraven>
might be good
- [00:05:53] <bewest>
food_we_ate_today isn't so hot either
- [00:05:56] <bewest>
keyword is good
- [00:06:09] <AdamCraven>
in a realistic situation, you might want lots of the italic effect
- [00:06:27] <AdamCraven>
<span class="meat">cow</span>
- [00:06:31] <bewest>
which is why keyword is a good classname.... very reuseable
- [00:06:51] <AdamCraven>
<span class="vegatables">tomato</span>
- [00:06:54] <bewest>
<span class="mammal">cow</span> is better
- [00:07:27] <bewest>
but again, if the point is to apply the same style <span class="keyword">cow</span> is much better
- [00:07:39] <bewest>
<span class="keyword mammal">cow</span> is even better
- [00:07:50] <AdamCraven>
it seems like a conflict between a design and coder
- [00:07:57] <AdamCraven>
you must have had them before?
- [00:08:20] <bewest>
only when the designer doesn't know what they are talking about... which isn't really a conflict
- [00:08:35] <bewest>
markup has very little to do with design
- [00:08:54] <AdamCraven>
"let's just put an '<i>' here" -- "Wha?? But it's not symantically correct"
- [00:09:11] <AdamCraven>
"So??" ... Then the explaination that follows
- [00:09:12] * briansuda agrees with bewest
- [00:09:53] <bewest>
AdamCraven: that's not a conflict... that's an education gap
- [00:10:06] <bewest>
a gap resolved by explanation/education
- [00:11:22] * bewest is lucky to be working with a great designer atm
- [00:11:38] <AdamCraven>
indeed, I'm also trying to justify to myself the reason why using perfect symantics is super important. Of course it's very important for things which are uniform (like microformats).
- [00:11:53] <AdamCraven>
I want one of those bewest
- [00:12:26] <factoryjoe>
class="keyword"??
- [00:12:30] <factoryjoe>
class="tag"
- [00:12:59] <AdamCraven>
is there a lot of difference?
- [00:13:11] <AdamCraven>
Isn't a keyword usually the same as a tag?
- [00:13:35] <factoryjoe>
nope
- [00:13:38] <factoryjoe>
same thing
- [00:13:39] <bewest>
factoryjoe: I suppose I'd need more contextual data to evaluate which of "keyword" or "tag" would be better
- [00:13:51] <bewest>
tag is shorter
- [00:13:53] <bewest>
hmmm
- [00:13:59] <bewest>
less typing is good :-)
- [00:14:09] <bewest>
but they aren't quite the same
- [00:14:18] <AdamCraven>
http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-tag
- [00:14:30] <AdamCraven>
"a page indicates that the destination of that hyperlink is an author-designated "tag" (or keyword/subject)"
- [00:14:32] <bewest>
a tag is an identifier a keyword is a description
- [00:15:03] <bewest>
when you go into the store you look at a tag to further identify some properties of the item
- [00:15:08] <bewest>
you don't do the same with keywords
- [00:15:17] <bewest>
keywords describe what part of the store you find the item
- [00:15:20] <bewest>
which isle
- [00:16:14] <AdamCraven>
hmm
- [00:16:58] <AdamCraven>
I know this is getting a bit nit picky
- [00:17:33] * bewest is an armchair Nit Picker
- [00:17:35] <AdamCraven>
but take technorati for example
- [00:17:58] <bewest>
picker of nits and fuzzies
- [00:18:01] <briansuda>
semantic class names are better than presentational ones, for the simple reason that they will out live the "design" of the site. class="blue-box" is not a good thing, class="alert-box" is better. This has nothing to do with parsing microformats
- [00:18:33] <bewest>
right, my suggestions were totally agnostic of mf
- [00:18:39] <AdamCraven>
actually, let's not take technorati for example. It's a bit late for tag/keyword thing.
- [00:18:46] <AdamCraven>
Brian, I totally agree on that
- [00:19:09] <AdamCraven>
It's just things such as using the <i> tag
- [00:19:31] <AdamCraven>
when you should use <span class="food">chips</span>
- [00:19:36] <briansuda>
i think <i> is depricated?
- [00:19:51] <Phae>
i isn't, em is just more semantic, afaik
- [00:19:58] <bewest>
iirc it is deprecated
- [00:19:58] <briansuda>
well, you CSS can take multiple properties for the same style
- [00:20:00] <factoryjoe>
<i> is presentational
- [00:20:04] <factoryjoe>
as is <b>
- [00:20:13] <factoryjoe>
<em> works in screen readers
- [00:20:15] <factoryjoe>
and changes voice
- [00:20:16] <briansuda>
.food, .meat, .vegitable { font-style: italics; }
- [00:20:19] <factoryjoe>
so it's semantic
- [00:20:21] <AdamCraven>
Has it been depreciated on the specs?
- [00:20:25] <tantek>
vegetable even
- [00:20:25] <factoryjoe>
i don't think so
- [00:20:26] <Phae>
i use em and strong regardless, because of the additional meaning
- [00:20:34] <tantek>
deprecated in modern usage
- [00:20:35] <factoryjoe>
heh
- [00:20:38] <Phae>
yeah
- [00:20:38] <factoryjoe>
right
- [00:20:39] <AdamCraven>
sometimes, using em is front though
- [00:20:41] <factoryjoe>
in convention
- [00:20:42] <AdamCraven>
*wrong
- [00:20:51] <Phae>
when?
- [00:20:51] <AdamCraven>
if you aren't emphasising
- [00:20:52] <briansuda>
i think it is deprecated on XHTML 1.1....
- [00:20:55] * briansuda checks
- [00:20:57] <factoryjoe>
so you should use <span style="font-weight:bold;">
- [00:20:57] <Phae>
that's presentational then
- [00:20:59] <tantek>
no not yet
- [00:20:59] <bewest>
http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/present/graphics.html#edef-I
- [00:21:04] <Phae>
you can use CSS to add the presentational italics
- [00:21:07] <Phae>
rather than i
- [00:21:08] <tantek>
but it is presentational
- [00:21:20] <factoryjoe>
it's like tables to layout
- [00:21:21] <factoryjoe>
you can do it
- [00:21:26] <factoryjoe>
but none of the cool kids do anymore
- [00:21:30] <Phae>
heh
- [00:21:33] <AdamCraven>
You don't use tables?!
- [00:21:36] <AdamCraven>
haha, just kidding
- [00:22:08] <AdamCraven>
I think we've hammered it home. However, it's also nice to be efficient with code at times
- [00:22:15] <tantek>
<b> and <br> are in XHTML 1.0 Stricmicr well, that doesn't mean you should use them to make headlines.
- [00:22:15] <briansuda>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML_element#Presentational_markup
- [00:22:23] <AdamCraven>
that was my concern
- [00:22:25] <Phae>
there's not any reason to use <i> now, since if it's just for show CSS handles it, and if it's for meaning you have <em>
- [00:22:37] <briansuda>
sorry, <u> is deprecated
- [00:22:42] <Phae>
yeah
- [00:23:01] <bewest>
<strike> is deprecated along with <u>
- [00:23:12] <bewest>
the others were apparently spared from the chopping block
- [00:23:14] <Phae>
yea, since we have line-through
- [00:23:27] <Phae>
although, I kind of like strike to indicate something that was true but now isn't.
- [00:23:28] <tantek>
strike, spare? are you a bowler bewest?
- [00:23:30] <Phae>
So it's a shame that went.
- [00:23:34] <bewest>
erm
- [00:23:46] <bewest>
no
- [00:23:47] <bewest>
hehe
- [00:23:55] <bewest>
just my subconcious playing word gaimes
- [00:23:57] <bewest>
games, even
- [00:24:04] <AdamCraven>
<!-- , presentational right?
- [00:24:14] <Phae>
comments? what?
- [00:24:23] <tantek>
adam, hah - no, just ignored
- [00:24:28] * Phae would like to bring back strike
- [00:25:18] <bewest>
AdamCraven: <!-- --> is ok, so is <![CDATA[ ]]>
- [00:25:36] <AdamCraven>
hmm, I don't like em. Usually the contents contain presentational information 'Put big blue man here'.
- [00:25:47] <AdamCraven>
etc, etc.
- [00:25:57] <bewest>
although if it's served as text/html <![CDATA[ ]]> gets converted into <!-- --> transparently by the browser
- [00:26:09] * tantek mentions related page on the wiki: http://microformats.org/wiki/semantic-xhtml
- [00:26:13] <AdamCraven>
ah, that's clever. Even on Ie5?
- [00:26:28] <bewest>
AdamCraven: no... comments are useful, just like in any other language
- [00:26:34] * Phae likes comments.
- [00:26:36] <bewest>
<!-- TODO: fix this later -->
- [00:26:40] <AdamCraven>
haha
- [00:26:55] <AdamCraven>
yeah, obviously not on production deployments
- [00:27:03] <bewest>
you'd be surprised :-)
- [00:27:14] <Phae>
I've started hCarding client contact info on projects at work, and I comment with a little link to microformats to educate those who wonder what the hell I'm doing.
- [00:27:31] <AdamCraven>
well, I know it's not realistic to expect them to be removed, because if they haven't an in house coder
- [00:27:57] <AdamCraven>
Finally, and seriously I'm off to bed after this one
- [00:28:01] <Phae>
heh
- [00:28:04] <bewest>
I'm a coder and I leave comments in until I'm sure the issue if flushed out
- [00:28:06] <AdamCraven>
What about mr <pre>
- [00:28:11] <Phae>
heh
- [00:28:14] <Phae>
I so rarely use pre
- [00:28:16] <bewest>
sometimes the issue isn't flushed out by the time it ships
- [00:28:21] <Phae>
What about it?
- [00:28:30] <bewest>
I use <pre> a lot when I'm debugging
- [00:28:34] <Phae>
Do you?
- [00:28:34] <tantek>
AdamCraven, if the white space has meaning then use <pre>
- [00:28:39] <tantek>
bbiab
- [00:28:48] <bewest>
or building
- [00:28:52] <Phae>
I use it if I'm maybe wanting to display a code snippet
- [00:28:58] <AdamCraven>
Pre, it's presentational right?
- [00:29:01] <Phae>
but other than that I don't tend to have a need for it
- [00:29:02] <Phae>
Yeah
- [00:29:04] <bewest>
yes, a lot of times I have a javascript logging console that logs to a <pre>
- [00:29:06] <tantek>
not quote
- [00:29:09] <tantek>
not quite that is
- [00:29:22] <tantek>
<pre> has the minimal semantic that the whitespace contained within *has* a semantic
- [00:29:27] <Phae>
yeah
- [00:29:33] <Phae>
Good for python eh?
- [00:29:35] <tantek>
so it is not just presentational
- [00:29:42] * tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) Quit ()
- [00:29:44] <AdamCraven>
hmm, it's a bit of an interesting one.
- [00:29:58] <bewest>
typically whitespace in debug logs is important :-)
- [00:30:05] <bewest>
and it beats the hell out of alert()
- [00:30:07] <AdamCraven>
I mean really, it would be nice to have a CSS property that could do that
- [00:30:13] <bewest>
oh?
- [00:30:14] <bewest>
:-)
- [00:30:21] <qid>
AdamCraven: preserve whitespace?
- [00:30:22] <bewest>
you mean like whitespace: pre; ?
- [00:30:28] <AdamCraven>
that's the one
- [00:30:29] <AdamCraven>
haha
- [00:30:30] <Phae>
yeah
- [00:30:44] <AdamCraven>
I'm mr 2.1 spec, IE5,6+ developer
- [00:30:49] <AdamCraven>
I don't use anything advanced
- [00:30:55] <AdamCraven>
until I can
- [00:30:57] <bewest>
why IE5?
- [00:31:04] <bewest>
IE5 is thoroughly dead
- [00:31:10] <AdamCraven>
just about nowadays
- [00:31:13] <Phae>
I have clients who still request IE5 compatibility
- [00:31:17] <bewest>
really?!
- [00:31:20] <Phae>
So it's actually still a problem for a lot of us
- [00:31:21] <Phae>
Yes.
- [00:31:21] <AdamCraven>
however, on other sites
- [00:31:31] <AdamCraven>
quite a small minority is IE5
- [00:31:35] <AdamCraven>
2-4%
- [00:31:38] <Phae>
I've said though, that when IE7 is out, we abandon IE5
- [00:31:47] <Phae>
Because then it's just taking the piss.
- [00:31:49] <Phae>
:)
- [00:31:52] <qid>
there are times I'm glad I'm a software engineer, not a web developer
- [00:31:54] <Phae>
heh
- [00:32:00] <bewest>
much smaller than 2-4%
- [00:32:03] <qid>
any time someone mentions IE is one of them
- [00:32:09] <bewest>
it's more like .05%
- [00:32:26] <bewest>
maybe as much as .58%
- [00:32:30] <Phae>
Anyway, can't escape client "I want this" lists. I do tend to go for 5.5 though ,since it's easier to fix for
- [00:32:33] <AdamCraven>
yeah, you maybe right. That was an 'out of my arse figure'
- [00:32:56] <AdamCraven>
I'm actually really good with 5.0x's problems
- [00:32:56] <Phae>
and you can convince clients that 5.5 is acceptable
- [00:33:09] <Phae>
It's not that bad
- [00:33:13] <AdamCraven>
it's a shame it's gone almost, because when it is, won't be able to charge as much
- [00:33:19] <Phae>
I find usually my list based menus go pop in 5.0
- [00:33:21] <AdamCraven>
well I will
- [00:33:27] <Phae>
heh
- [00:33:28] <AdamCraven>
but just won't feel as justifued
- [00:33:33] <AdamCraven>
*fied
- [00:33:45] <AdamCraven>
yeah, line-height:1em;
- [00:33:51] <AdamCraven>
is definately important for it
- [00:33:54] <Phae>
:)
- [00:33:59] <AdamCraven>
plus doing inline lists for IE5
- [00:34:03] <AdamCraven>
nightmare!
- [00:34:05] <Phae>
yeah
- [00:34:06] <Phae>
exactly
- [00:34:16] <Phae>
oh wells! it's all good fujn
- [00:34:18] <bewest>
inline lists?
- [00:34:22] <Phae>
if it was too straight forward, it would be boring
- [00:34:29] <AdamCraven>
hopefully IE7 will 'break' plenty of sites
- [00:34:37] <AdamCraven>
then lots of people will be running around panicking
- [00:34:38] <bewest>
it will :-)
- [00:34:46] <AdamCraven>
inline lists, yeah
- [00:34:48] <Phae>
I need to sleep now.
- [00:34:56] <Phae>
So, I'll say g'night
- [00:35:04] <AdamCraven>
g'night mate
- [00:35:06] <Phae>
:)
- [00:35:07] <bewest>
night Phae
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- [00:45:33] <AdamCraven>
g'night fellers :)
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- [01:15:08] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [02:43:05] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [02:55:18] <jibot>
chimezie is Chimezie Ogbuji - He is a mammal
- [03:11:17] * DanC had some fun doing trip planning with hCalendar today http://www.w3.org/2006/09dc-aus/aus-aa
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- [03:35:07] <Molly>
hello
- [03:36:20] <qid>
hi
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- [06:59:11] * cbarrett wonders why xFolk is called xFolk.
- [06:59:26] <cbarrett>
I thought microformats started with h ('cause it looks like a mu?)
- [07:02:45] <factoryjoe>
xfolk is derivative from delicious
- [07:02:56] <factoryjoe>
and the name stems from folksonomy
- [07:03:07] <factoryjoe>
and hFolk sounded lame
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- [07:18:03] <mfbot>
[[User:Colin Barrett]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/User:Colin_Barrett * Colin Barrett * (+180)
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- [07:52:56] <mfbot>
[[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=8286 * Kuma * (+95) Examples in the wild -
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- [08:03:03] <jibot>
trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
- [08:05:34] * bergie (n=bergie@kone1.tmvvision.finnetcom.net) has joined #microformats
- [08:05:34] <jibot>
bergie is lives in Finland and blogs at http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/ and Midgard CMS developer
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- [10:05:43] <Whiskey_M>
'lo
- [10:05:48] <Phae>
morning
- [10:06:07] <Whiskey_M>
Hi Phae, see you made it onto Accessify
- [10:06:13] <Phae>
yeah :)
- [10:06:18] <Phae>
I thought I better.
- [10:06:30] <Whiskey_M>
'tis a good place
- [10:06:46] <Phae>
Yeah, I have frequented it in the past purely as a viewer.
- [10:07:46] <Whiskey_M>
found out about it when our company was getting a slating over a sitemorse rant. Glad I found it though, learnt a lot
- [10:07:55] <Phae>
heh
- [10:07:58] <Phae>
Yeah
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- [10:11:16] <Whiskey_M>
WSG on the 19th? Must try to catch my train this time ;)
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- [10:11:26] <Phae>
:)
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- [10:12:58] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [10:29:34] <trovster>
Anyone know a none web-facing conversion fr vcards which supports 'cell'?
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- [10:49:32] <trovster>
Sudas script is not liking tel values.
- [10:51:32] * McNulty (n=ciaran@nat-195.157.130.52.maximalls.net) has joined #microformats
- [10:51:32] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
- [10:51:35] <McNulty>
morning
- [10:51:46] <McNulty>
In hCard is there a way of indicating that a phone number is an internal one?
- [11:00:55] <McNulty>
I have a list of extension numbers and marking them as @class="tel" would be a bit misleading
- [11:02:01] * trovster can't get class="tel" in to outlook
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- [11:05:28] <McNulty>
trovster - how do you mean?
- [11:06:09] <Phae>
hm.. you're right, there doens't seem to be a type that seems particuarly suited to an extension
- [11:06:16] <trovster>
Well, I have a page with people + numbers on, marked up as a hCard, but Brian Suda's script to put them in to outlook doesn't get the phone numbers.
- [11:06:56] <Phae>
although I think I'd be inclined to mark them just as normal phone numbers
- [11:09:19] <Phae>
work prefered?
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- [11:14:34] <McNulty>
trovster - url?
- [11:14:42] <trovster>
It's private data
- [11:14:45] <McNulty>
oh
- [11:14:48] <McNulty>
snippet?
- [11:15:02] <trovster>
it's just tel examples... they're private numbers
- [11:15:10] <McNulty>
what does the resultant vCard look like? Does it look correct?
- [11:15:37] <Phae>
You could show us a snippet with false numbers.
- [11:15:54] <trovster>
It works in drew's script.
- [11:17:10] <McNulty>
ah right
- [11:17:31] <trovster>
http://paste.css-standards.org/1940
- [11:20:41] <Phae>
"How's you? Found you on the Accessify forum so thought I'd say hi.
- [11:20:41] <Phae>
I'm really interested in Microformats but not sure really where to start. Can you recommend any readings/books for a total novice? "
- [11:20:52] <McNulty>
nothing wrong with that, trovster
- [11:21:00] <trovster>
... i know ...
- [11:22:07] <McNulty>
heh
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- [11:29:38] <trovster>
Outlook wants TEL;CELL;VOICE:453786, and the script gives TEL:cell 12453547986
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- [11:52:34] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [12:33:17] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
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- [12:57:14] <jibot>
pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
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- [13:04:24] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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- [13:21:59] <jibot>
McNulty is Ciaran McNulty (http://ciaranmcnulty.com)
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- [13:26:42] <jibot>
csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
- [13:28:43] <McNulty>
trovster - the vCard RFC looks like TEL;TYPE=cell:1233456789 is correct.
- [13:29:19] <trovster>
But the script doesn't give that.
- [13:29:40] <McNulty>
and your Outlook example wasn't that either.
- [13:29:53] <trovster>
No, it wasn't... but that is what I was given.
- [13:29:59] <McNulty>
hm
- [13:30:23] <McNulty>
What does drewinthehead's script output?
- [13:31:23] <trovster>
I was checking plain text.
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- [13:40:23] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
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- [13:41:19] <jibot>
sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
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- [13:55:33] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [14:07:46] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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- [14:24:05] <jibot>
dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
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- [15:34:05] <jibot>
cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
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- [15:55:28] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
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- [16:02:08] <pnhChris>
this make the rounds yet? http://www.thinkvitamin.com/features/design/how-to-use-microformats
- [16:03:41] <Phae>
oh no, thats cool.
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- [16:04:34] <trovster>
Bit long, I skimmed it
- [16:05:28] <Phae>
Well, it's not exactly aimed at the people in this channel, eh? It's good to see a thorough write-up though
- [16:12:38] <trovster>
<p>Phone/Fax: <span class="tel">+61 2 9365 5007</p> is incorrect, isn't it?
- [16:13:02] <trovster>
<span class="region">NSW</span> -- <abbr title="New South Wales" class="region">NSW</abbr> ?
- [16:17:54] <qid>
yeah, I belive both of those should be changed
- [16:18:34] <qid>
I'm not sure the region is explicitly wrong but it should be marked up with the abbr as you show
- [16:23:41] <trovster>
class="email" should go o nthe link?
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- [16:28:21] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
- [16:28:58] <qid>
yes
- [16:33:15] <qid>
http://pastebin.com/775746
- [16:33:42] <qid>
not sure about the intermixing of div/p/span, those might want to be reworked
- [16:33:50] <qid>
depends somewhat on presentation though
- [16:34:08] <trovster>
I wouldn't use the parapgraph, in my opinion it's not one
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- [17:00:23] <jibot>
kingryan is ryan king
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- [17:19:23] <jibot>
mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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- [18:03:40] <jibot>
RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
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- [19:06:49] <mfbot>
[[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8287 * Adactio * (+193) Examples in the wild -
- [19:24:56] <Whafro>
so is the h in hcard, hevent, hreview representative of "mu" ?
- [19:25:20] <qid>
afaik it's supposed to indicate HTML
- [19:29:04] <kingryan>
qid is right
- [19:41:41] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=8288 * GdfsGersccza * (+18948)
- [19:44:58] <davecardwell>
*spam* ^^
- [19:45:17] <davecardwell>
KevinMarks / kingryan
- [19:47:27] <mfbot>
[[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Main_Page&diff=0&oldid=8289 * Brian * (-18948) Reverted edit of GdfsGersccza, changed back to last version by Tantek
- [19:47:34] <briansuda_>
taken care of
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- [19:48:17] <qid>
didn't that guy get banned already
- [19:52:35] <Whafro>
on the technorati microformats searches, can you search for a given microformatted-entity based on anything outside the data contained within? Like, if I post an hEvent on a blog post that is rel-tagged, can I search for that event based on that tag?
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- [20:06:20] <briansuda_>
Whafro, their search is just a free-text search of known microformatted conent
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- [20:26:50] <Whafro>
hmm, the notion that you could search for hEvents based on associated rel-tags would be amazing
- [20:40:32] <briansuda_>
you should make some suggestions for an 'advanced' search
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- [20:41:26] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [20:51:56] <DanC>
hmm... one of these things is not like the others... "product, business, event, person, place, website, url"
- [20:52:34] <DanC>
people are doing reviews of urls? as in "it's a nice long URL; I particularly like the use of the colon character and the letters P and Q"
- [20:52:54] <DanC>
how about ... website, webpage
- [20:53:16] <DanC>
is a hotel a product or a business? business I guess
- [20:53:36] <kingryan>
DanC: I think I've made the same suggestion
- [20:53:40] <DanC>
ah... "If the item is also an hCard" that's my case.
- [20:53:46] <kingryan>
people tend to conflate URLs and websites anyways
- [20:53:59] <DanC>
so we should help them aim the gun at their foot? ;-)
- [20:54:57] <kingryan>
that's why I suggest removing either the gun or the foot
- [20:55:07] <DanC>
quite
- [20:55:34] <DanC>
I've got some hotel data on http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/events/ ; I exported some PDA records as hCards...
- [20:55:51] <DanC>
... for a GRDDL use case/tutorial, I'm looking at turning some of them into hReviews
- [20:57:30] <DanC>
dtreviewed is a little awkward; in the current organization of the page, the date is outside the hcard/hreview item.
- [20:57:44] <DanC>
e.g. the Radisson SAS, Edinburgh http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/events/#_665
- [20:58:05] <DanC>
I could use the include deely, I suppose, but I'm not sure the relevant code groks
- [20:58:23] <DanC>
briansuda_, does http://suda.co.uk/sandbox/GRDDL/hreview2rdfxml.xsl grok the include deely?
- [20:58:31] <briansuda_>
not yet
- [20:58:38] * DanC figured
- [20:58:58] <briansuda_>
if you give me some data i can get that in this weekend
- [20:59:15] <DanC>
er.. does the Radisson SAS, Edinburgh http://www.w3.org/People/Connolly/events/#_665 count?
- [20:59:27] <DanC>
oh... I see what you mean now.
- [20:59:58] * bewest notices Tantek is slated to speak at http://www.carsonworkshops.com/summit/
- [21:01:11] * DanC browses http://www.carsonworkshops.com/summit/ to look for connections to W3C's web apps WG... doesn't see many
- [21:02:04] <briansuda_>
DanC, i had a look over the last few days and didn't find a single conforming hReview
- [21:02:20] <briansuda_>
so i am hoping you can give me some valid data
- [21:02:37] <DanC>
all the yahoo local stuff is broken?
- [21:03:30] <DanC>
hmm... the carson workshop site isn't valid. I wonder if (a) the folks leading the summit don't think that's worth bothering or (b) the folks leading the summit don't talk to their webmaster.
- [21:03:38] <briansuda_>
yeah, they the ISO date gets most folks
- [21:04:00] <briansuda_>
and/or they don't NEST the fn inside an item... most people have <span class="item fn">
- [21:04:47] <cgriego>
DanC: I decided recently that a hotel was a business.
- [21:04:50] <DanC>
"item"? what's that? oh. hm. new to me. But I guess most of hReview is.
- [21:05:19] <cgriego>
briansuda_: hreview2rdfxml.xsl will need the name() vs local-name() change.
- [21:05:24] <DanC>
the hreview spec should give me a hello world example before giving me the schema, I suggest.
- [21:05:51] <briansuda_>
cgriego, maybe, maybe not - we are playing around with RSS and XML as well
- [21:06:25] <briansuda_>
item is the only required element inside an hReview
- [21:06:45] <briansuda_>
inside that 'item' you need either a vevent, vcard, or a single 'fn'
- [21:07:04] <briansuda_>
An example of a minimum hReview would be something like the following:
- [21:07:04] <briansuda_>
<div class="hreview">
- [21:07:04] <briansuda_>
<p class="item"><span class="fn">Lunch</span> was not as good as expected.</p>
- [21:07:04] <briansuda_>
</div>
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- [21:14:08] <cgriego>
briansuda: would it need to be something like this? namespace-uri() = 'http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml' and local-name() = 'abbr' and @title
- [21:14:28] <cgriego>
that way any namespace prefix would work
- [21:14:37] <briansuda>
yes, exactly
- [21:16:52] <briansuda>
KevinMarks, for pingerati's Ping Receivers are those ONLY pings of pages that are known to have microformatted content, or are the pings for all submitted pages to the service
- [21:20:46] <KevinMarks>
all submitted pages
- [21:21:09] <KevinMarks>
as we are only indexing some microformats at the moment, and didn't want to inadvertently filter
- [21:21:36] <KevinMarks>
If you want just, say, events.pingerati.net I cna do that
- [21:22:08] <KevinMarks>
but the ping reflection is before the parser, so our parser being slow or buggy doesn't impact you
- [21:22:53] <briansuda>
do you (can you) tell me any numbers? i'd like to start collecting this data, but i am worried about bandwidth, etc.
- [21:24:09] <KevinMarks>
well, the flow of pings shouldn't be too heavy. the exception is when a new pinger joins and sends us back catalogue
- [21:25:46] <briansuda>
ok. let set-up some stuff. When your pings are just GET requests correct?
- [21:25:49] <KevinMarks>
the feteches of the urls for parsing is under your control, so you can throttle that down appropriatelt
- [21:25:55] <KevinMarks>
yes
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- [21:47:38] <jibot>
gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
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- [21:57:07] <jibot>
remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
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- [22:44:50] <jibot>
chimezie is Chimezie Ogbuji - He is a mammal
- [22:47:03] <csarven>
anyone know if it is possible to grab a query string value from the current URI in XSL?
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- [23:35:05] <jibot>
briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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