IRC Log for #microformats on 2006-08-24

Timestamps are in UTC.

  1. [00:15:33] <KevinMarks> interesting piece by markp
  2. [00:15:56] <KevinMarks> http://diveintomark.org/archives/2006/08/23/overton-window
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  4. [00:23:26] <qid> http://evan.prodromou.name/RDFa_vs_microformats <--- er... some problems there, I think
  5. [00:23:54] <qid> microformats defined by one organization? new formats require new data models?
  6. [00:29:49] <KevinMarks> microformats are meant for convergence of common schemas
  7. [00:30:19] <KevinMarks> not scaling out to an arbitrary Babel is a feature, not a bug
  8. [00:32:34] <KevinMarks> also, by picking hCard, which is based on a pre-existing standard, he understates the convergence issue
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  13. [01:13:28] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
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  32. [01:44:57] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
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  42. [02:47:06] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  43. [02:51:55] <cgriego> where is the recipe discussions at with defining ingredients and measurements?
  44. [02:52:17] * tantek (n=tantek@ppp-71-139-204-131.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) has joined #microformats
  45. [02:52:17] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  47. [02:53:26] <cgriego> tantek: has the recipe discussions gotten anywhere with defining measurements?
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  49. [02:55:24] <cgriego> ah well
  50. [02:56:17] <cgriego> this is coming out of me researching the currency/money discussions, and Tantek had made the point that a numeric value with a unit of measurement was an underlying common problem that was shared with the recipe discussions.
  51. [02:58:38] <cgriego> would it then not make sense to reuse the type/value pattern? <li class="ingredient"><span class="value">2.5</span> <span class="type">Cups</span></li> which can also be used as <p class="currency>$<span class="value">20.00</span> <acronym class="type" title="United States Dollars">USD</acronym>
  52. [02:58:55] <cgriego> </p>
  53. [02:59:51] <briansuda> that makes sense, except that you still haven't "defined" cups
  54. [03:00:08] <briansuda> i think there are a few terms that overlap but mean different things in different cultures
  55. [03:00:16] <briansuda> ton/tonne
  56. [03:00:23] <briansuda> metric ton, imperial ton
  57. [03:02:12] <cgriego> true, could that then be further <abbr title="236.588238mL">Cups</abbr>?
  58. [03:04:03] <cgriego> metric system seems like a fair system to agree on
  59. [03:04:25] <cgriego> scientific community would seem to agree
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  62. [03:07:24] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  64. [03:20:11] <qid> of course, that makes it more difficult to mark up
  65. [03:23:10] <cgriego> as does the datetime pattern
  66. [03:23:39] <qid> well, there's no transformation of units in datetime
  67. [03:26:18] <cgriego> there's the human readable and machine readable versions
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  75. [04:39:26] <KevinMarks> also the US uses volume, and the UK uses weight
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  77. [04:42:09] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  83. [05:16:02] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
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  85. [05:44:34] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=8271 * Bob Jonkman * (+2241) Example - Added example with start and end times; reference to RFC3339 for human-readable date-time format
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  90. [06:01:15] <mfbot> [[hcalendar]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar&diff=0&oldid=8272 * Tantek * (-541) fixed new vevent to match hcalendar markup in example
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  95. [06:52:43] <mfbot> [[hcard]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8273 * Duncan Smith * (+134) New Examples -
  96. [06:52:49] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats&diff=0&oldid=8274 * M * (+2002) Add Yours Here -
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  98. [06:58:55] <factoryjoe> hey harr
  99. [06:58:57] <factoryjoe> oops
  100. [06:59:04] <factoryjoe> nm
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  103. [07:16:52] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  106. [07:39:42] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
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  110. [08:04:03] <jibot> trovster is a web developer from the UK who writes on http://www.trovster.com and helps with www.multipack.co.uk
  111. [08:13:07] <drewinthehead> mornin'
  112. [08:17:02] <trovster> unfortunately, it is.
  113. [08:19:57] <drewinthehead> heh :)
  114. [08:20:26] <drewinthehead> sounds like you need more coffee
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  117. [08:30:52] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-ja&diff=0&oldid=8275 * IwaiMasaharu * (+1698) sync: english: 06:01, 24 Aug 2006
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  121. [08:37:34] <jibot> marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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  124. [09:18:12] <jibot> tantek is Tantek <http://tantek.com> and works on Technorati and develops microformats <http://microformats.org>
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  129. [09:47:55] <jibot> marclaporte is Marc Laporte from Tiki CMS/Groupware
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  134. [11:10:42] * Phae (n=phae@85-210-162-41.dsl.pipex.com) has joined #microformats
  135. [11:11:00] <Phae> morning
  136. [11:18:19] <drewinthehead> morning Phae
  137. [11:18:36] <Phae> i love days off
  138. [11:22:10] <drewinthehead> day off? i remember those :)
  139. [11:22:33] <Phae> today and tomorrow.
  140. [11:22:48] <Phae> I'm in cornwall. I did do some CSS stuff on the train though, so I'm being good.
  141. [11:22:52] <drewinthehead> (actually i'm off tomorrow, back wednesday)
  142. [11:22:59] <Phae> I dreamt about BarCamp last night.
  143. [11:23:03] <drewinthehead> uh oh
  144. [11:23:10] <Phae> I know! It was at my old college.
  145. [11:23:28] <drewinthehead> BarCampPhaesOldCollege
  146. [11:23:37] <Phae> heh
  147. [11:23:51] <Phae> I was obviously very tired, and I'd been working on the MFPG
  148. [11:24:05] * bunnywabbit_ is now known as bunny_running
  149. [11:24:07] <drewinthehead> yay .. that's coming together from the look of it
  150. [11:24:22] <Phae> mm hmm
  151. [11:25:33] <Phae> We have loads of people on our event now.
  152. [11:25:54] <Phae> Someone mentioned on my blog about a microbewery near London Bridge, so I'll try and track that down.
  153. [11:26:05] * bunny_running (n=bunny@adsl-84-226-113-64.adslplus.ch) Quit ()
  154. [11:27:12] <Phae> http://www.beer-pages.co.uk/protz/features/brew-wharf.htm might be the one
  155. [11:28:31] <drewinthehead> ah, awesome
  156. [11:29:36] <drewinthehead> that looks like a nice place
  157. [11:29:45] <Phae> yeah
  158. [11:29:58] <drewinthehead> mmm 'roast meats'
  159. [11:30:42] <Phae> hmm
  160. [11:30:48] <Phae> they have a menu and such
  161. [11:32:17] <Phae> It looks reasonably big though, and having an ourdoor bit is nice
  162. [11:32:23] <Phae> on the small chance we have good weather
  163. [11:32:59] <drewinthehead> seeing how grey august is, i don't hold out hope for the last day of september
  164. [11:33:18] <Phae> I know. Depressing.
  165. [11:33:37] <Phae> By good I'll be hoping for "dry"
  166. [11:33:40] <trovster> Yeh, messes up this weekend :(
  167. [11:33:57] <Phae> oh yeah
  168. [11:34:00] <Phae> park meet
  169. [11:34:02] <Phae> :/
  170. [11:35:50] <Phae> I suppose I'll give them a buzz at some point then and see how they feel about random groups of developers on their doorstep
  171. [11:36:27] <drewinthehead> that'd be ace
  172. [11:36:46] <drewinthehead> trovster: too late to get someone to sponsor umbrellas? :)
  173. [11:36:53] <Phae> that'd be a good idea
  174. [11:42:38] <drewinthehead> what's your plan if it's raining heavily, trovster?
  175. [11:43:17] <trovster> Well, that's why we've got a <marquee>
  176. [11:43:30] <Phae> oh
  177. [11:43:32] <Phae> well done!
  178. [11:44:50] <trovster> urm, nah, I'm lying. Too much organising / cost / beuraucracy for public place.
  179. [11:45:09] <trovster> Basically, we all cry and it goes down in history as a mess and I never arrange anything ever again.
  180. [11:45:22] <Phae> How many people are you expecting?
  181. [11:45:25] <trovster> 2?
  182. [11:45:28] <Phae> heh
  183. [11:45:30] <Phae> Seriously!
  184. [11:45:37] <Phae> You were well advertised.
  185. [11:45:57] <trovster> doesn't mean anyone will be coming?
  186. [11:46:08] <Phae> There's bound to be a pub (there's always a wetherspoons) that you can take refuge in
  187. [11:46:09] <trovster> Are you? drewinthehead? I know the answer to that, but meh
  188. [11:46:50] <drewinthehead> i'm at a festival all weekend
  189. [11:47:02] <drewinthehead> which is technically work, as they're a client
  190. [11:47:13] <trovster> ha
  191. [11:47:18] <Phae> I was already booked up to come down to Cornwall for the Eden Sessions, unfortunately
  192. [11:47:56] <trovster> See, like I said. Well advertised != people coming.
  193. [11:48:06] <Phae> We're 2 people.
  194. [11:48:10] <Phae> Upcoming is a good indication.
  195. [11:48:22] * _cori[s] (n=cori[s]@h69-128-109-218.69-128.unk.tds.net) Quit ("Death before decaf")
  196. [11:48:29] <trovster> http://www.geekdinner.co.uk/archives/2006/08/02/london-geek-picnic-26th-august-06/ - doesn't bode well
  197. [11:49:16] <drewinthehead> know anyone with a gazebo, trovster?
  198. [11:49:23] <trovster> not really, o
  199. [11:49:24] <trovster> no
  200. [11:50:03] <drewinthehead> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/6503484.htm
  201. [11:50:24] <drewinthehead> "don't shop for it, argos it!" zomg.
  202. [11:50:38] <trovster> Public place != gazebo
  203. [11:51:39] <drewinthehead> what are they going to do about it?
  204. [11:51:59] <trovster> Arrest me? heh
  205. [11:52:04] <drewinthehead> send in the gazebo warden?
  206. [11:52:53] <Phae> http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/12443/?view=beerfly reviews
  207. [12:00:36] <drewinthehead> some of those reviews are way too in-depth
  208. [12:01:03] <Phae> yeah
  209. [12:01:14] <Phae> people who spend their whole lives JUST reviewing pubs
  210. [12:01:44] <drewinthehead> "and soon you are front and square to the wide brick arch, freshly re-pointed"
  211. [12:02:18] <drewinthehead> a vital part of the pub experience, in my book:- how recently the brickwork has been repointed.
  212. [12:04:52] <drewinthehead> that said, the prospect of spending your whole life just reviewing pubs is somewhat tempting.
  213. [12:05:04] <drewinthehead> although i fear it would be a short, yet happy life.
  214. [12:11:10] <Phae> heh
  215. [12:11:12] <Phae> truth.
  216. [12:11:31] <Phae> brb
  217. [12:13:16] <drewinthehead> :)
  218. [12:21:20] <trovster> Meh, I didn't win the lottery :(
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  220. [12:27:02] <jibot> csarven is Sarven Capadisli and can be found online at http://www.csarven.ca
  221. [12:33:28] <drewinthehead> trovster: that reminds me of the idea for a microformat for scores/outcomes
  222. [12:33:45] <trovster> hCup?
  223. [12:34:18] <drewinthehead> certainly not ;)
  224. [12:35:13] <trovster> Was my idea for length and size the correct idea for rel-enclosure?
  225. [12:35:14] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  226. [12:38:48] <drewinthehead> where was that?
  227. [12:39:01] <trovster> Yesterday, some time
  228. [12:40:07] <trovster> http://rbach.priv.at/Microformats-IRC/2006-08-23#T162811
  229. [12:49:38] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
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  234. [13:02:35] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC904F95.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  235. [13:02:35] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  236. [13:02:35] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
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  245. [13:26:05] * drewinthehead (n=mclellan@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has joined #microformats
  246. [13:26:05] <jibot> drewinthehead is the author of hKit and a developer for Yahoo! Europe
  247. [13:40:05] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC904F95.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  248. [13:43:06] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) has joined #microformats
  249. [13:43:06] <jibot> sreynen is Scott Reynen, who makes things at makedatamakesense.com
  250. [14:01:53] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) has joined #microformats
  251. [14:01:54] <jibot> dglazkov is Dimitri Glazkov (http://glazkov.com) and lives in Birmingham, AL, USA (-6:00 GMT)
  252. [14:02:10] * ChanServ sets mode +o dglazkov
  253. [14:06:51] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) has joined #microformats
  254. [14:06:51] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  255. [14:06:51] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  256. [14:13:19] <Phae> hm
  257. [14:14:37] <tantek> ?
  258. [14:16:58] <drewinthehead> everything's micro in here.
  259. [14:28:36] * trov (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) has joined #microformats
  260. [14:28:36] * trovster (n=trov@creation1.plus.com) Quit (Connection reset by peer)
  261. [14:34:08] * trov is now known as trovster
  262. [14:36:32] <drewinthehead> forcast is looking a bit better, trovster. your geeks might not get wet after all.
  263. [14:48:21] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  264. [14:51:34] <Phae> I think if it does rain, it'll be fleeting.
  265. [14:52:37] <drewinthehead> how would you mark up a weather report?
  266. [14:52:49] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  267. [14:53:13] <Phae> With uFs?
  268. [14:53:17] <Phae> Or just generally?
  269. [14:54:11] <trovster> I say with HTML!
  270. [14:54:21] <Phae> :P
  271. [14:54:32] <briansuda> there is a single UNICODE character for ℃
  272. [14:55:37] <tantek> presumably the weather applies to a *location* which you could markup with adr and/or geo
  273. [14:56:21] <drewinthehead> right
  274. [14:56:25] <drewinthehead> and a time
  275. [14:56:43] <drewinthehead> is weather an event?
  276. [14:56:44] <trovster> And it's something you could subscribe to.
  277. [14:57:42] <drewinthehead> VoteLinks for good, bad and so-so conditions
  278. [14:58:23] <tantek> drew, you might want to document examples of how people talk about the weather online and a common 80/20 schema
  279. [14:58:53] <drewinthehead> it would be a marvellously british thing to do.
  280. [14:59:41] <tantek> you would want to distinguish forecasts from actual measurements for example
  281. [14:59:54] <drewinthehead> yes, that's an interesting point
  282. [15:00:44] <drewinthehead> i wonder if locations are more likely to be broad regions than something which can be tied to adr or geo
  283. [15:01:04] <tantek> most weather stations that take measurements have precise lat longs
  284. [15:01:27] <tantek> and AFAIK, most weather reports are per city, which can be marked up with adr
  285. [15:02:02] <drewinthehead> yes, although the forecast might be based on the data from multiple points for an area as a whole
  286. [15:02:13] <drewinthehead> i guess adr has regions, which could cover it
  287. [15:02:21] <tantek> sure, but that's not the visible information that is published
  288. [15:02:29] * drewinthehead is making up problems before doing the research
  289. [15:02:30] <briansuda> but each measurement comes from a single weather station
  290. [15:02:31] <tantek> doesn't matter what it's "based" on
  291. [15:02:53] <tantek> if someone quotes the temperature in a city, that's all the information you have to markup, and that you should markup
  292. [15:03:10] * pecus (n=pecus@194.65.5.235) has joined #microformats
  293. [15:03:34] <drewinthehead> yes, thinking about how weather is documented in textual form, it does tend to be for a city or town
  294. [15:04:06] <qid> drewinthehead: http://www.noaa.gov/
  295. [15:04:29] <drewinthehead> i was thinking of maps, but those would typically be graphical, and could be plotted from textual data anyway
  296. [15:04:58] <qid> wow, their RSS feed is valid
  297. [15:05:49] <drewinthehead> http://www.met-office.gov.uk/
  298. [15:10:57] <KevinMarks> don't you remember dotBen's leak of the met office JSOn feeds?
  299. [15:11:45] * remi (n=remi@dsl-150-252.aei.ca) has joined #microformats
  300. [15:11:45] <jibot> remi is Remi Prevost, a web developper (yeah, that's how we spell "developer" in french) from Quebec and blogs about web stuff at <http://remiprevost.com/>
  301. [15:13:24] * gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) has joined #microformats
  302. [15:13:25] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  303. [15:17:51] <drewinthehead> i do, KevinMarks
  304. [15:25:52] * mlinksva (n=mlinksva@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/mlinksva) has joined #microformats
  305. [15:25:52] <jibot> mlinksva is Mike Linksvayer and from Creative Commons
  306. [15:28:31] <jibot> WildFox is Mr. KDOM. Co-author of kdom, ksvg and kcanvas.
  307. [15:31:32] <Phae> I forced my dad onto wordpress so now I can legitimately use the family XFN tags
  308. [15:31:34] <Phae> heh
  309. [15:32:05] <drewinthehead> rel="parent" :)
  310. [15:32:13] <Phae> yeah
  311. [15:32:41] <Phae> he has a site, but it doesn't come up on searches, so I'm showing him how easy it'll be to be found if he blogs a bit
  312. [15:32:48] <Phae> he's into the family history thing
  313. [15:33:41] <drewinthehead> in future generations the first half of family history research may be as simple as running an XFN lookup :D
  314. [15:34:08] <Phae> exactly
  315. [15:34:36] <KevinMarks> and validating both ends of the link
  316. [15:34:59] <KevinMarks> before everyone claims to be heir to the throne using rel="parent"
  317. [15:35:06] <Phae> heh
  318. [15:35:15] <Phae> I think I'll make him a theme based on the sandbox
  319. [15:37:24] <tantek> KevinMarks, but even then it is useful for finding out if there are people out there that claim to be the children of a particular person.
  320. [15:39:42] <drewinthehead> in fact, those are more interesting ;)
  321. [15:47:49] <Phae> I explained XFN to my dad
  322. [15:47:53] <Phae> He thinks it's a good idea
  323. [15:50:54] <Phae> why isnt technorati signing me in :/
  324. [15:53:12] <davecardwell> gremlins
  325. [15:53:17] * davecardwell goes back to lurking
  326. [15:53:43] <trovster> You can't blame gizmo for that
  327. [15:54:19] <trovster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gizmo heh
  328. [15:54:34] <tantek> Phae, feel free to bug us Technorati-folk in #technorati
  329. [15:57:39] <gsnedders> Phae: I'd have a challenge explaining it to my dad :P
  330. [15:58:04] <Phae> heh
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  336. [16:19:54] <drewinthehead> nearly quittin' time here. i'm going to be out until probably Tuesday
  337. [16:20:34] <drewinthehead> have a nice weekend everyone.
  338. [16:20:41] <trovster> pah, part-timer
  339. [16:21:01] * drewinthehead (n=mclellan@nat-fw.london.corp.yahoo.com) has left #microformats
  340. [16:23:22] <briansuda> anyone around work on tech.yahoo.com?
  341. [16:23:37] <briansuda> i am looking at their hReviews and the dtreviewed is not a valid date
  342. [16:24:35] <trel1023> new redesign at http://www.brown.edu/
  343. [16:24:43] <trel1023> with microformats
  344. [16:25:23] <trel1023> well, at least one. :)
  345. [16:30:36] <briansuda> very cool,. be sure to add that to the 'in the wild section'
  346. [16:31:56] * sheets (n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-SIX-O-EIGHT.MIT.EDU) Quit ("Leaving")
  347. [16:34:12] * raxor (n=chatzill@68-65-87-196.snbrca.adelphia.net) has joined #microformats
  348. [16:34:12] <jibot> raxor is in southern California, near LA
  349. [16:39:12] * stuup (n=stu@62-249-234-122.no-dns-yet.enta.net) Quit ()
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  351. [16:56:09] <mfbot> [[hcard]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard&diff=0&oldid=8276 * TerrellRussell * (+75) Examples in the wild - added brown.edu
  352. [16:56:26] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  353. [16:56:29] * valmont (n=chrishol@pdpc/supporter/silver/valmont) Quit ()
  354. [16:56:39] <briansuda> can anyone around clear-up an issue with hReview? specifically what to do with multiple class="description"s
  355. [16:56:42] <briansuda> description:: This optional field contains the full text representing the written opinion of the reviewer. The field MAY include valid XHTML markup (e.g. paragraphs). User agents SHOULD preserve any markup. Multiple descriptions or section descriptions (e.g. pros and cons, plusses and minusses) SHOULD be included in the description field.
  356. [16:57:01] <briansuda> the wiki says that Multiple descriptions or section descriptions SHOULD be included in the description field
  357. [16:57:25] <briansuda> is that a concatenation of all the class="description" or multiple instances of each
  358. [17:00:24] <tantek> neither
  359. [17:00:44] <tantek> some review sites provide multiple UI fields to enter in descriptions or parts of descriptions, e.g. pros, cons, overall
  360. [17:00:58] <tantek> hReview says to put all of those into the element with class name "description"
  361. [17:02:07] <briansuda> so only one class="description" per class="hreview"
  362. [17:02:15] <tantek> right
  363. [17:02:17] * bunnywabbit_ (n=bunny@adsl-84-226-113-64.adslplus.ch) has joined #microformats
  364. [17:03:46] <briansuda> i'm going through the yahoo tech site trying to extract some hReviews, they are all over the map in supporting hReview. Is there a contact person we could talk to and gently get things corrected?
  365. [17:04:22] <tantek> how about providing feedback under their listing in the hReview examples in the wild section?
  366. [17:04:35] <tantek> Andy Baio is a good person to contact
  367. [17:04:45] <tantek> and might want to bring up issues here too
  368. [17:04:53] <tantek> would probably be illustrative to discuss them
  369. [17:05:30] <briansuda> they have multiple class="descriptions"
  370. [17:05:38] <briansuda> multiple class="ratings" for each review
  371. [17:06:07] <briansuda> they are missing a vcard on class="reviewer vcard", they have class="reviewer fn"
  372. [17:06:31] <briansuda> my guess is that they never have validated against anything, so they are un-aware of the mistakes
  373. [17:06:43] <briansuda> the dtreviewer is also not an ISO format
  374. [17:07:53] * sheets (n=dsheets@30-7-232.wireless.csail.mit.edu) has joined #microformats
  375. [17:11:09] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
  376. [17:17:36] <tantek> multiple class="ratings" are ok if they are tagged ratings
  377. [17:18:01] <qid> dtreviewed?
  378. [17:18:25] <tantek> briansuda, another guess is that they may have validated against an older version of Tails which tends to be more forgiving and do things like support title attributes on spans which is incorrect. i think that has been fixed in the latest version however.
  379. [17:19:04] <briansuda> i am going through the local site now as well, they are better than tech.yahoo.com
  380. [17:19:34] <briansuda> so i will get my list together and either post it to the wiki, here, and/or in an email to andy baio
  381. [17:24:32] * amette_ (n=amette@88.134.225.5) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
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  383. [17:25:40] <jibot> gsnedders is a 14 year old idiot from Scotland and pretends to have a website at http://geoffers.uni.cc/
  384. [17:25:46] * amette_ (n=amette@88.134.225.5) has joined #microformats
  385. [17:27:51] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2513P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined #microformats
  386. [17:27:51] <jibot> RobertBachmann is Robert Bachmann <http://rbach.priv.at/> and lives in Austria (Timezone: UTC 02)
  387. [17:28:29] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  388. [17:32:45] <RobertBachmann> does anybody know when ryan king will be around?
  389. [17:34:31] * huyhong (n=huyhong@38.99.12.65) has joined #microformats
  390. [17:36:33] * briansuda has poked kingryan via IM
  391. [17:42:23] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  392. [17:42:23] * ChanServ sets mode +o kingryan
  393. [17:42:23] <jibot> kingryan is ryan king
  394. [17:42:39] <kingryan> howdy
  395. [17:42:41] <RobertBachmann> hey kingryan
  396. [17:42:45] <kingryan> hi robert
  397. [17:42:49] <kingryan> heard you were looking for me :D
  398. [17:42:53] <RobertBachmann> I just read your mail
  399. [17:44:32] <kingryan> yeah?
  400. [17:48:06] <mfbot> [[microformats-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-ja&diff=0&oldid=8277 * Vantguarde * (+25)
  401. [17:54:39] * vant_ (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) has joined #microformats
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  406. [18:09:34] * vant (n=vant@FLH1Abe103.isk.mesh.ad.jp) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  407. [18:13:13] <mfbot> [[microformats-ja]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=microformats-ja&diff=0&oldid=8278 * IwaiMasaharu * (+15) microformatsの原則 - 意訳
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  411. [19:00:14] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  412. [19:01:42] * kingryan (n=kingryan@dsl081-240-149.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) Quit ()
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  418. [20:01:32] <mfbot> [[hcalendar-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcalendar-fr&diff=0&oldid=8279 * ChristopheDucamp * (+1688) Exemple - french localization of a meeting example to be checked
  419. [20:02:56] * KevinMarks (n=Snak@pdpc/supporter/active/kevinmarks) Quit ("The computer fell asleep")
  420. [20:04:24] <mfbot> [[hcard-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hcard-fr&diff=0&oldid=8280 * ChristopheDucamp * (+89) Nouveaux Exemples - ajout Brown University
  421. [20:11:54] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #microformats
  422. [20:26:21] * dglazkov (n=dglazkov@adsl-065-081-081-030.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) Quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  423. [20:28:30] <mfbot> [[what-are-microformats-fr]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=what-are-microformats-fr&diff=0&oldid=8281 * ChristopheDucamp * (+2503) [fr ;ajout très belle définition extraite du wiki]
  424. [20:39:36] * ajturner (n=irc@s233-64-126-217.try.wideopenwest.com) Quit ()
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  427. [20:58:38] * ROBOd (n=robod@86.34.246.154) Quit ("http://www.robodesign.ro")
  428. [21:03:39] * jcgregorio (n=chatzill@bi01p1.nc.us.ibm.com) Quit ("Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.5.0.5/undefined]")
  429. [21:10:10] * edsu is now known as large_delicious_
  430. [21:10:14] * large_delicious_ is now known as edsu
  431. [21:21:32] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-44.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) Quit ()
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  433. [21:29:03] <mfbot> [[Textmarks syntax]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/Textmarks_syntax * Chris Messina * (+4184) First commit
  434. [21:30:39] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=8282 * Chris Messina * (+180) added reference to documented syntaxes
  435. [21:33:32] * cori[s] (n=cori[s]@pdpc/supporter/active/CoriS) Quit ("Death before decaf")
  436. [21:35:33] * RobertBachmann (n=RobertBa@M2513P022.adsl.highway.telekom.at) Quit ("Leaving")
  437. [21:52:43] * tantek reminds folks about http://��JNoformats.org/wiki/naming-conventions , in particular #1 and #2
  438. [21:53:11] <mfbot> [[Textmarks syntax]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Textmarks_syntax&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+4184) Textmarks syntax moved to textmarks-syntax
  439. [21:55:32] <mfbot> [[Kiboze syntax]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=Kiboze_syntax&diff=0&oldid=0 * Tantek * (+802) Kiboze syntax moved to kiboze-syntax
  440. [21:56:48] <mfbot> [[picoformats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki?title=picoformats&diff=0&oldid=8283 * Tantek * (-54) please obey [[naming-conventions]]
  441. [21:57:05] * izo_ (n=izo_@boi59-1-82-66-128-84.fbx.proxad.net) Quit ()
  442. [22:08:25] * Mr_Elusive (n=Mr_Elusi@S0106000f66365909.wp.shawcable.net) has joined #microformats
  443. [22:12:32] * briansuda (n=briansud@h-68-166-252-239.chcgilgm.covad.net) Quit ()
  444. [22:29:34] * cgriego (n=cgriego@c-67-166-246-44.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) has joined #Microformats
  445. [22:29:34] <jibot> cgriego is Chris Griego (-06:00) and a front-end developer at RD2, Inc.
  446. [22:40:20] * sreynen (n=sreynen@216.81.176.51) Quit ()
  447. [22:42:59] * sheets (n=dsheets@30-7-232.wireless.csail.mit.edu) Quit (Remote closed the connection)
  448. [22:52:05] * ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) has joined #microformats
  449. [22:52:06] <jibot> ajturner is Andrew Turner, a simulation and geolocation nut who blogs at http://highearthorbit.com
  450. [22:52:35] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) Quit ()
  451. [22:54:14] * sheets (n=dsheets@EASTCAMPUS-EIGHT-SEVENTY-NINE.MIT.EDU) has joined #microformats
  452. [22:56:47] * dc__ (n=dctanner@bb-87-81-165-34.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  453. [23:05:55] * factoryjoe (n=cmessina@dsl081-246-197.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) has joined #microformats
  454. [23:06:24] <factoryjoe> tantek: sup?
  455. [23:07:45] <tantek> just wanted to remind you about http://microformats.org/wiki/naming-conventions
  456. [23:07:52] <tantek> especially when creating new pages on the wiki
  457. [23:08:06] <tantek> I cleaned up a couple of pages linked from picoformats.
  458. [23:08:08] <tantek> Thanks.
  459. [23:09:08] <factoryjoe> ok
  460. [23:09:09] <factoryjoe> sure
  461. [23:09:10] <factoryjoe> sorry
  462. [23:09:28] <factoryjoe> ah, i was using mediawiki convention
  463. [23:09:40] <factoryjoe> thanks for not deleting!
  464. [23:13:17] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) Quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  465. [23:14:24] * valmont (n=chrishol@germany.pspdev.pas.earthlink.net) has joined #microformats
  466. [23:15:58] * lisppaste4 (n=lisppast@common-lisp.net) has joined #microformats
  467. [23:17:04] <tantek> factoryjoe, mediawiki convention is inferior for findability due to _ vs - difference
  468. [23:17:46] * pnhChris (n=cac6982@c-68-39-65-171.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) has joined #microformats
  469. [23:17:47] <jibot> pnhChris is Chris Casciano, blogs at http://placenamehere.com/ , and a member of the Web Standards Project.
  470. [23:20:26] * briansuda (n=briansud@AC9230B9.ipt.aol.com) has joined #microformats
  471. [23:20:27] <jibot> briansuda is brian suda of http://suda.co.uk/ and http://claimid.com/briansuda in his freetime he works on the X2V microformats parser (-0600 CST)
  472. [23:20:27] * ChanServ sets mode +o briansuda
  473. [23:32:12] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues&diff=0&oldid=8284 * Elias * (+1395) new issue re: date formats
  474. [23:38:35] * AdamCraven (n=Gr1m@bb-87-81-108-8.ukonline.co.uk) has joined #microformats
  475. [23:39:11] <factoryjoe> nice: http://web.mac.com/metafy/iWeb/MetafyWebMiningSoftware/TheMetafyBlog/C1A52C50-A318-4ADA-9D5F-6F986635EB69.html
  476. [23:40:03] * bewest wonders if there is a ppt2s5 converter
  477. [23:40:21] <AdamCraven> What would be the most symantec elements to use for an FAQ list? <dt><dd> came to mind, but it's hardly a term and a descriptor.
  478. [23:40:35] <factoryjoe> sure
  479. [23:40:38] <factoryjoe> question and answer
  480. [23:40:39] <bewest> AdamCraven: <dl> is useful for any key:value pairing
  481. [23:40:42] <factoryjoe> dt and dd
  482. [23:40:56] <factoryjoe> for multiple answers use multiple dd's
  483. [23:41:05] <AdamCraven> so you'd say question is a term and answer is the descroptor?
  484. [23:41:34] <mfbot> [[hreview-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki?title=hreview-issues&diff=0&oldid=8285 * Tantek * (+553) resolved datetime issue
  485. [23:41:54] <AdamCraven> For example, would you say a conversion would use DL?
  486. [23:42:01] <AdamCraven> *conversation
  487. [23:42:03] <AdamCraven> e.g.
  488. [23:42:11] <AdamCraven> <dt>Adam Craven<dt>
  489. [23:42:20] <AdamCraven> <dd>Hello there</dd>
  490. [23:42:26] <bewest> AdamCraven: if you were going to create any data structure to store these things, what would that structure would you use? if you can imaging using some kind of hash or key:value kind of structure, consider marking it up using <dl>
  491. [23:42:32] <factoryjoe> AdamCraven: check out the chat-examples and chat-brainstorming pages
  492. [23:42:40] <bewest> AdamCraven: I think <dl> was rejected for that particular use
  493. [23:42:58] <bewest> even though iirc it's suggested for that use at w3
  494. [23:43:59] <AdamCraven> Thanks fellers. It looks like that's the way forward for my FAQ list.
  495. [23:44:26] <bewest> you can even write a nifty little TOC script that automatically generates an index/TOC from your markup
  496. [23:44:50] <AdamCraven> TOC?
  497. [23:44:55] <bewest> table of contents
  498. [23:45:07] <bewest> like a menu for quick access
  499. [23:45:49] <AdamCraven> ah, I really want to automate as much as I can, instead of manually doing the markup all the time. What language, or program, do you use?
  500. [23:46:09] <bewest> well, in this scenario, you do the markup for the faq once
  501. [23:46:15] <factoryjoe> you could use javascript
  502. [23:46:15] <factoryjoe> ;)
  503. [23:46:21] <factoryjoe> but a DL is just as easy
  504. [23:46:23] <bewest> or you store it in a database and have a simple template that outputs it in a <dl>
  505. [23:46:42] <bewest> then you have a script that can parse that output and automatically present a table of contents
  506. [23:46:46] <bewest> it's easy to do in javascript
  507. [23:46:50] <bewest> but you can do it in any language
  508. [23:46:59] <bewest> php or python, perl.... etc cet..
  509. [23:47:06] <bewest> by parsing the XML structure
  510. [23:47:26] <AdamCraven> with Javascript, are you talking about generation into the DOM, rather than into the page source?
  511. [23:47:45] <bewest> in this context I'm not sure what the difference is
  512. [23:47:49] <bewest> with javascript it's done on the client
  513. [23:47:55] <bewest> so you look through the DOM, I suppose
  514. [23:48:42] <factoryjoe> yes
  515. [23:48:46] <factoryjoe> through the dom
  516. [23:48:46] <bewest> anyway you do it will be using the DOM
  517. [23:48:56] <factoryjoe> ie writeFaq();
  518. [23:49:08] <bewest> if you used php you would create DOM from the xml generated and do the same thing
  519. [23:49:13] <bewest> or simply use another template
  520. [23:49:24] <factoryjoe> i still think plain xhtml is sufficient
  521. [23:49:40] <bewest> factoryjoe: I'm talking about xhtml :-)
  522. [23:50:07] <bewest> the XML I'm talking about is just the <dl> stuff
  523. [23:50:11] <AdamCraven> Yeah, what I was reffering to was although having it on the page would be in the DOM of course. Having it in the plain html file is what I meant by source code. When JavaScript is off, RIP content. But database
  524. [23:50:29] <bewest> AdamCraven: it's both...
  525. [23:50:35] <bewest> if javascript is off the content is still there
  526. [23:50:35] <AdamCraven> is the best.
  527. [23:50:42] <bewest> just no table of contents
  528. [23:51:08] <AdamCraven> yeah, which would be annoying!
  529. [23:51:40] <bewest> it's only annoying if the page has text which says to use the table of contents
  530. [23:52:01] <bewest> otherwise it wouldn't be annoying... it would be undetectable
  531. [23:53:04] <AdamCraven> I think differently on that. I'd rather have a page that looks the same in as many given situations as possible, then have an easier automated process that generates it, but runs the risk of not producing the page the same.
  532. [23:53:27] <AdamCraven> Although, I wish everyone used javascript all the time
  533. [23:53:34] <AdamCraven> it would make my life easier
  534. [23:58:17] <bewest> AdamCraven: anyway, javascript was just ONE suggestion for one SMALL feature
  535. [23:58:33] <bewest> AdamCraven: you can implement the same feature in php as I suggested: either use a template or parse the DOM in PHP
  536. [23:59:49] <AdamCraven> thanks for your help bewest, it's much appreciated.

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